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Arguing Semantics - sugar addiction

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senecarr
senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
in Debate Club
To begin with, I'm a bit dismayed that several of the people who have dismissed sugar addiction arguments as semantics are people who have knowledge or links to psychology. If you think semantics is unimportant and reason to dismiss something, I feel you're frankly doing a real poor job understanding psychology as one of the last big shifts in psychology was the development of cognitive therapy and the cognitive approach. In some ways, cognitive therapy is entirely about semantics - how you label the same behavior is important and matters. How you label it mentally, according to cognitive psychology, does change outcomes. Which I think, even without a cognitive psychology approach, many people on MFP are staunchly against letting people label themselves as sugar addicts - the practical experience and learning that achieving long term weight loss is about a relation with food, and how we view it, ourselves, and our connection to it. Labeling oneself an addict absolutely precludes the possibility of having a healthy relationship with a category of food.

What's more, I do, absolutely, 100% deny that it is a semantics argument when at least once per thread about sugar addiction someone says sugar addiction is real, and that the same areas of the brain light up in reaction to sugar that they do for heroin (which I doubly dislike as an example of compounded bad science because the drug comparison is cocaine - heroin acts on opoid receptors while food and cocaine both do work with dopamine and serotonin). There is almost irony in that some of these people who make that claim want to ride two horses going in opposite directions because they'll also be the ones to say it is an unhelpful semantics argument.
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Replies

  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    I love this @senecarr
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,646 Member
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    But, gosh guys... how can you be so mean? :trollface:
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    In.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
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    jofjltncb6 wrote: »
    In.
    BecomingBane wrote: »
    But, gosh guys... how can you be so mean? :trollface:

    I'm thinking two people might have noticed patterns to MFP.
    Despite all odds, I'm hoping and because it is in the debate area even believing this won't become a dumpster fire.
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
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    jofjltncb6 wrote: »
    In.

    +1
  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,578 Member
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    senecarr <3
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,646 Member
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    senecarr wrote: »
    jofjltncb6 wrote: »
    In.
    BecomingBane wrote: »
    But, gosh guys... how can you be so mean? :trollface:

    I'm thinking two people might have noticed patterns to MFP.
    Despite all odds, I'm hoping and because it is in the debate area even believing this won't become a dumpster fire.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to belittle your thread. I think this post is well though out, insightful and true. I have since had three discussions regarding it, one of which was a friend who is also a CBT therapist.

    I think there is value in what you say and what you think. I also think that because all of those things being true, this thread will rapidly fall down the boards which will lessen the likelihood of it's being seen and actually discussed.

    My comment was meant jokingly, sure, but all intents were merely to bump the thread.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    cosigning and in …..
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
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    ijq5d916ja3f.jpeg
  • zoeysasha37
    zoeysasha37 Posts: 7,089 Member
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    @senecarr another great thread !!
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    Be keeping it alive!
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    BecomingBane wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    jofjltncb6 wrote: »
    In.
    BecomingBane wrote: »
    But, gosh guys... how can you be so mean? :trollface:

    I'm thinking two people might have noticed patterns to MFP.
    Despite all odds, I'm hoping and because it is in the debate area even believing this won't become a dumpster fire.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to belittle your thread. I think this post is well though out, insightful and true. I have since had three discussions regarding it, one of which was a friend who is also a CBT therapist.

    I think there is value in what you say and what you think. I also think that because all of those things being true, this thread will rapidly fall down the boards which will lessen the likelihood of it's being seen and actually discussed.

    My comment was meant jokingly, sure, but all intents were merely to bump the thread.

    :+1:
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    what is semantics exactly?
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,646 Member
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    sr9mgkkra9y6.gif
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    queenliz99 wrote: »
    what is semantics exactly?

    Semantics is the theory of the meaning of word parts, words, sentences or texts.

    If someone says you're arguing semantics, they mean to tell you that you're just arguing about the word they're using, and not the thing itself.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    It drives me fricking coocoo when people pull the "food is addiction" line

    Behavioural therapy for eating disorders <> therapy for drug / alcohol addiction

    It ties in with the modern movement (eg last 2 decades) to victimisation and finding something external to blame. With an approach that asks people to "Disney-fy" the world rather than help.

    These "it's not my fault", "it's out of my control", "it's a physical addiction" don't help people change

    You know what I think helps people change, taking responsibility, committing, re-committing when you feck up and just stopping blaming society, big pharma, big food, your mother, your boyfriend, your dog and your genetics


  • TheBeachgod
    TheBeachgod Posts: 825 Member
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    I don't even bother clicking on those threads any more since they usually end up being a 10 page peeing contest with people equating heroin and sugar or whatever food or activity they won't assume responsiblilty for overdoing.

    I'd imagine this thread is due to the following image, notice the highlighted part which in effect means "(insert evil food here) addicts" should be mollycoddled in this particular forum but if they want the truth they can look elsewhere. It also mentions simply refrain from posting which I already have decided on after this post as well as unfollowing this forum but I wonder how many people are going to miss out on helpful information simply because a lot of MFP posters won't walk on eggshells to tell an "addict" what they want hear, using the terminology they want used.

    16gl54d43ei2.jpg

    And what do have on the home page of this forum, two threads below this topic? Sugar addiction with 69 replies.

    9yzgm46c44e3.jpg




  • snickerscharlie
    snickerscharlie Posts: 8,578 Member
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    rabbitjb wrote: »
    It drives me fricking coocoo when people pull the "food is addiction" line

    Behavioural therapy for eating disorders <> therapy for drug / alcohol addiction

    It ties in with the modern movement (eg last 2 decades) to victimisation and finding something external to blame. With an approach that asks people to "Disney-fy" the world rather than help.

    These "it's not my fault", "it's out of my control", "it's a physical addiction" don't help people change

    You know what I think helps people change, taking responsibility, committing, re-committing when you feck up and just stopping blaming society, big pharma, big food, your mother, your boyfriend, your dog and your genetics


    Precisely.

    But for as long as people aren't prepared to face the fact that it's their own gluttony that put them where they are, nothing will change for them because they're simply not ready for change.

    I can say this as someone who tried to blame most of the above for the reason I found myself close to a hundred pounds overweight a year ago. Yes, there were (and still are) some mitigating medical factors involved but the biggest factor in my weight gain was my increasing inability to shut my freaking pie hole.

    Was I physically addicted to excess food or sugar? Of course not. I just really, really, really, really liked them. ;)

    So it was time to put on my big girl panties (literally *and* figuratively!) and get the job done. :)
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
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    I'm no expert--so bear with me, but I notice so many people coming on MFP and spouting all the catch phrases and terminology that they don't understand indepth. They get so butthurt when someone asks them to defend said phrases. The general public is being brainwashed into believing certain "truths". It takes awhile to understand weightloss and what really happens to our bodies. As more and more people-newbies- sign on, and more and more "old timers" leave, there're bound to be problems with education. I applaude you for taking on the terminology. It's basic to all our education.
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