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more protien better...or not?
antennachick
Posts: 464 Member
So with all the protien craze going on what are you thoughts? Is protien powder a must for building muscle or just a good meal with protien works as well(I know food is best but lets face it protien powder is easy)? And do we really need that much protien? My fitness pal recommends 90 grams for me then if I exercise it recommends even more. I know the negative effects of too much on the liver so I am curious what is too much?
"The DRI (Dietary Reference Intake) is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or 0.36 grams per pound (1). This amounts to (2, 3): 56 grams per day for the average sedentary man. 46 grams per day for the average sedentary woman."
"The DRI (Dietary Reference Intake) is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or 0.36 grams per pound (1). This amounts to (2, 3): 56 grams per day for the average sedentary man. 46 grams per day for the average sedentary woman."
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Replies
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I try to eat 80-100gms a day. Works well for me. some days hard to get in that much one thing for sure not as hungry as in eating carbs left me hungry after 2 hours. my body likes red meat all my labs re normal, I do eat lots of chicken and fish some pork, lots of eggs, and 1-2xs a week a protein shake, few years ago I drank 1-2 daily but Id much rather eat my calories. although my smoothies about 100 cals each and makes about a pitcher full so very satisfying and filling. We all need to find what works for us and support one another. Then there are times I just cant seem to eat meat and Im not a fan of soy or beans legumes at minimum as the carb count don't like my body. when I cut back to 50 gms I get leg cramps. I hope you find what works for you!
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http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
If you're trying to build or retain muscle, there is solid evidence that amounts up to 0.8g per pound of bodyweight will give beneficial results, with some others going even further.
The DRI is the absolute minimum anyone should ever consume to not become deficient.
Getting more than that is not going to hurt you either if you like it. There is no negative effects on the liver in healthy people for normal intakes.
https://examine.com/faq/can-eating-too-much-protein-be-bad-for-you/0 -
This is substantial amounts of research suggesting that increased protein, especially during weight loss, is highly beneficial.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/823505/research-on-protien-intake0 -
And regardless of what level of protein you choose, protein shakes are not required to build muscle. You need adequate protein, progressive resistance training, and usually* a calorie surplus.
*It is possible to build muscle in a deficit in certain instances, and muscle can be built while eating at maintenance, but at a much slower rate than bulking.0 -
I enjoy my real food as usual, then supplement by snacking on a triple-chocolate shake every now and then. Although not a bodybuilder, my wound care team and other doctors have suggested that the more protein I can stand, the better. Regarding the potential for liver damage, that threshold is almost impossible to cross without eating enough calories for the whole year in one sitting.0
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The only problems with increasing protein % for haphazard dieters is that it then requires more nutritious foods from your remaining calories as fats and especially carbs.0
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The evidence I've seen suggests to me that it can be helpful up to .65-.85 g per lb of healthy body weight, if one is trying to improve athletic performance and also eating at a deficit. There are some suggestions that more could be helpful but have not been tested and that eating amounts higher than what are usually recommended (the RDA) is especially important for older people (including those of us in our 40s), as well as people eating at a deficit (in both cases to retain muscle).
Here's one source: http://examine.com/faq/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/
Beyond that, I find that including this amount (for me about 95 g, although I often eat more) in my diet tends to be satiating. Could I achieve the same effect on a lower protein diet in some other way? I expect so, but I find it easy enough to include the protein and enjoyable.
I don't see any benefit to protein powder beyond convenience or a supplement if you find it difficult to get the protein in (and taste if you like the shakes). I sometimes add protein powder to oatmeal since otherwise my oatmeal breakfasts would have less protein than my usual ones.
A lot of sites (like iifym.com) seem to me to recommend more protein than would be beneficial (often because they are working on a percentage basis), and I also see people eating more protein than necessary because they seem to think they should cut low on both fat and carbs, and that's when I see it as perhaps more of a problem.0 -
For someone with insulin resistance, I would say no. More protein is not beneficial to my health0
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I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.0
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The rda is low, and ANY formula that is not based on LEAN BODY MASS, will be inaccurate as protein is only needed for muscle mass, not fat mass. .7 grams per pound of LEAN BODY MASS per day is about right.0
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Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
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cookielover_96 wrote: »
Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
Well, it is more likely that it gets burned off for energy and your body then keeps or absorbs dietary fat, rather than converting it to fat (there probably isn't a direct pathway in humans to turn protein into fatty acids), but the results are identical when all those molecules look alike.0 -
cookielover_96 wrote: »
Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
To much of any calories can turn into fat.0 -
Not if you're eating correctly...?cookielover_96 wrote: »
Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
To much of any calories can turn into fat.
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cookielover_96 wrote: »
Not if you're eating correctly...?cookielover_96 wrote: »
Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
To much of any calories can turn into fat.
What do you mean by correctly?0 -
One can be eating a lot of protein but not consuming too much calories3dogsrunning wrote: »cookielover_96 wrote: »
Not if you're eating correctly...?cookielover_96 wrote: »
Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
To much of any calories can turn into fat.
What do you mean by correctly?
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cookielover_96 wrote: »
One can be eating a lot of protein but not consuming too much calories3dogsrunning wrote: »cookielover_96 wrote: »
Not if you're eating correctly...?cookielover_96 wrote: »
Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
To much of any calories can turn into fat.
What do you mean by correctly?
And they won't gain fat.
Eating over calories = gain fat.
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Just remember; calories in, calories out. Your body will do the rest.0
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cookielover_96 wrote: »
One can be eating a lot of protein but not consuming too much calories3dogsrunning wrote: »cookielover_96 wrote: »
Not if you're eating correctly...?cookielover_96 wrote: »
Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
To much of any calories can turn into fat.
What do you mean by correctly?
In which case the protein (or any other macronutrient) wouldn't be stored as fat. There is no net fat storage when in a caloric deficit regardless of the macronutrient profile.
Also, while the pathway for protein being stored as fat exists, it's extremely inefficient and basically doesn't happen: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html/...Which means that the odds of protein being converted to fat in any quantitatively meaningful fashion is simply not going to happen. Certain amino acids are processed to a great degree in the liver (as I discuss in The Protein Book) and this can produce glucose, ketones and a few other things. But triglycerides (the storage form of ‘fat’) isn’t one of them.
I imagine that if protein were going to be converted to fat, it would first have to be converted to glucose and only if the amount produced were then in excess of daily maintenance requirements would there be conversion to fat. But as noted above, this simply isn’t going to happen under any even reasonably normal circumstances. No human could eat enough protein on a daily basis for it to occur.
What will happen, as discussed in Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation. is that amino acid oxidation (burning for energy) will go up somewhat although, as discussed in that article, it’s a slow process and isn’t complete.
So, as noted above, while the pathway exists for protein to be stored as fat, and folks will continue to claim that ‘excess protein just turns to fat’, it’s really just not going to happen under any sort of real-world situation. Certainly we can dream up odd theoretical situations where it might but those won’t apply to 99.9% of real-world situations.0 -
Protien beneficial to help retain muscle in a cut.
Protien suppliments are taken blindly by less experienced people thinking it's some sort of magic to build muscle.
Many people ignore carbs intake when bulking thinking protien needs to be higher than on a cut.0 -
cookielover_96 wrote: »
One can be eating a lot of protein but not consuming too much calories3dogsrunning wrote: »cookielover_96 wrote: »
Not if you're eating correctly...?cookielover_96 wrote: »
Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
To much of any calories can turn into fat.
What do you mean by correctly?
In which case the protein (or any other macronutrient) wouldn't be stored as fat. There is no net fat storage when in a caloric deficit regardless of the macronutrient profile.
Also, while the pathway for protein being stored as fat exists, it's extremely inefficient and basically doesn't happen: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html/...Which means that the odds of protein being converted to fat in any quantitatively meaningful fashion is simply not going to happen. Certain amino acids are processed to a great degree in the liver (as I discuss in The Protein Book) and this can produce glucose, ketones and a few other things. But triglycerides (the storage form of ‘fat’) isn’t one of them.
I imagine that if protein were going to be converted to fat, it would first have to be converted to glucose and only if the amount produced were then in excess of daily maintenance requirements would there be conversion to fat. But as noted above, this simply isn’t going to happen under any even reasonably normal circumstances. No human could eat enough protein on a daily basis for it to occur.
What will happen, as discussed in Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation. is that amino acid oxidation (burning for energy) will go up somewhat although, as discussed in that article, it’s a slow process and isn’t complete.
So, as noted above, while the pathway exists for protein to be stored as fat, and folks will continue to claim that ‘excess protein just turns to fat’, it’s really just not going to happen under any sort of real-world situation. Certainly we can dream up odd theoretical situations where it might but those won’t apply to 99.9% of real-world situations.
I'm not sure there exists a direct metabolic pathway in humans to go directly from protein to fat. I believe it would require gluconeogenesis from protein first, and then de novo lipogensis of glucose.0 -
cookielover_96 wrote: »
One can be eating a lot of protein but not consuming too much calories3dogsrunning wrote: »cookielover_96 wrote: »
Not if you're eating correctly...?cookielover_96 wrote: »
Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
To much of any calories can turn into fat.
What do you mean by correctly?
In which case the protein (or any other macronutrient) wouldn't be stored as fat. There is no net fat storage when in a caloric deficit regardless of the macronutrient profile.
Also, while the pathway for protein being stored as fat exists, it's extremely inefficient and basically doesn't happen: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html/...Which means that the odds of protein being converted to fat in any quantitatively meaningful fashion is simply not going to happen. Certain amino acids are processed to a great degree in the liver (as I discuss in The Protein Book) and this can produce glucose, ketones and a few other things. But triglycerides (the storage form of ‘fat’) isn’t one of them.
I imagine that if protein were going to be converted to fat, it would first have to be converted to glucose and only if the amount produced were then in excess of daily maintenance requirements would there be conversion to fat. But as noted above, this simply isn’t going to happen under any even reasonably normal circumstances. No human could eat enough protein on a daily basis for it to occur.
What will happen, as discussed in Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation. is that amino acid oxidation (burning for energy) will go up somewhat although, as discussed in that article, it’s a slow process and isn’t complete.
So, as noted above, while the pathway exists for protein to be stored as fat, and folks will continue to claim that ‘excess protein just turns to fat’, it’s really just not going to happen under any sort of real-world situation. Certainly we can dream up odd theoretical situations where it might but those won’t apply to 99.9% of real-world situations.
I'm not sure there exists a direct metabolic pathway in humans to go directly from protein to fat. I believe it would require gluconeogenesis from protein first, and then de novo lipogensis of glucose.
That's my understanding as well. Which is what Lyle postulated in the article I quoted:...I imagine that if protein were going to be converted to fat, it would first have to be converted to glucose and only if the amount produced were then in excess of daily maintenance requirements would there be conversion to fat. But as noted above, this simply isn’t going to happen under any even reasonably normal circumstances. No human could eat enough protein on a daily basis for it to occur...0 -
I.am.on doctors.plan, suggested ratio is.40% protein,.40% carbs 20% fat0
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antennachick wrote: »I know the negative effects of too much on the liver so I am curious what is too much?
Actually, that's not so. If you don't already have liver problems, a high protein diet won't hurt it.0 -
So it cant cause liver problems? I have had some many people freak out when I tell them how protien is my goal and say I am going to have liver problems haCarlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »I know the negative effects of too much on the liver so I am curious what is too much?
Actually, that's not so. If you don't already have liver problems, a high protein diet won't hurt it.
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antennachick wrote: »
So it cant cause liver problems? I have had some many people freak out when I tell them how protien is my goal and say I am going to have liver problems haCarlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »I know the negative effects of too much on the liver so I am curious what is too much?
Actually, that's not so. If you don't already have liver problems, a high protein diet won't hurt it.
Nope. They are misinformed.
http://www.biolayne.com/uncategorized/myths-surrounding-high-protein-diet-safety/0 -
cookielover_96 wrote: »
One can be eating a lot of protein but not consuming too much calories3dogsrunning wrote: »cookielover_96 wrote: »
Not if you're eating correctly...?cookielover_96 wrote: »
Agreed. If you do your research OP, too much protein turns to fat IF you don't burn it off enough.I think high protein diet works well for some people, not so well for others. It's about finding what works the best for you. I prefer a nice balance in carbs, fat and protein. I found that's just what works for me best.
To much of any calories can turn into fat.
What do you mean by correctly?
In which case the protein (or any other macronutrient) wouldn't be stored as fat. There is no net fat storage when in a caloric deficit regardless of the macronutrient profile.
Also, while the pathway for protein being stored as fat exists, it's extremely inefficient and basically doesn't happen: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html/...Which means that the odds of protein being converted to fat in any quantitatively meaningful fashion is simply not going to happen. Certain amino acids are processed to a great degree in the liver (as I discuss in The Protein Book) and this can produce glucose, ketones and a few other things. But triglycerides (the storage form of ‘fat’) isn’t one of them.
I imagine that if protein were going to be converted to fat, it would first have to be converted to glucose and only if the amount produced were then in excess of daily maintenance requirements would there be conversion to fat. But as noted above, this simply isn’t going to happen under any even reasonably normal circumstances. No human could eat enough protein on a daily basis for it to occur.
What will happen, as discussed in Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation. is that amino acid oxidation (burning for energy) will go up somewhat although, as discussed in that article, it’s a slow process and isn’t complete.
So, as noted above, while the pathway exists for protein to be stored as fat, and folks will continue to claim that ‘excess protein just turns to fat’, it’s really just not going to happen under any sort of real-world situation. Certainly we can dream up odd theoretical situations where it might but those won’t apply to 99.9% of real-world situations.
I'm not sure there exists a direct metabolic pathway in humans to go directly from protein to fat. I believe it would require gluconeogenesis from protein first, and then de novo lipogensis of glucose.
That's my understanding as well. Which is what Lyle postulated in the article I quoted:...I imagine that if protein were going to be converted to fat, it would first have to be converted to glucose and only if the amount produced were then in excess of daily maintenance requirements would there be conversion to fat. But as noted above, this simply isn’t going to happen under any even reasonably normal circumstances. No human could eat enough protein on a daily basis for it to occur...
I would disagree. The starting point for glucose to be transformed into fat is acetyl-CoA (forming fat when it's used for lipogenesis instead of entering the Krebs cycle to produce the proton gradient for ATP synthesis).
Many, but not all, amino acids are also metabolized through acetyl-CoA, so I would think that would be the point at which protein byproduct would enter lipogenesis.0 -
antennachick wrote: »
So it cant cause liver problems? I have had some many people freak out when I tell them how protien is my goal and say I am going to have liver problems haCarlos_421 wrote: »antennachick wrote: »I know the negative effects of too much on the liver so I am curious what is too much?
Actually, that's not so. If you don't already have liver problems, a high protein diet won't hurt it.
I was taking 60 g in protein powder a day. Dr. told me to stop because it was throwing off my kidney blood work. Since then my blood work has been fine. Everything in moderation my dear… Everything!!0 -
Try not to rely on powders.0
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