The china study is pretty bad. And that you rebounded from it even though "they" say you won't because it's so good and *kitten* should tell you how seriously you should take "them".
Thanks for the link. I'm just trying to listen to my body and I'm still concerned about B12 deficiency, so I'm not back to being 100% plant based.
B12 supplementation is pretty easy -- lots of non-vegans also supplement B12.
I recently became an vegan, as did my boyfriend. My boyfriend actually gained muscle from making the switch from animal protein to plant protein. Why? I'm not sure. He still eats the same calories. Just better nutrition. I, on the other hand, am a fat vegan. I am losing weight now that I am vegan. I have not done a lot of exercise lately so I cannot comment on my muscle and it's strengths. I do lose more inches and fewer pounds more quickly as a vegan in comparison to when I was dieting and omnivorous. I very much believe it has to do with the limitations as a vegan. It's hard to eat junk. I usually stick to chick peas and mixed veggies, nori, rice, and occasional fruits.
Interested? Sure, I'd try it once! Maybe not right now, but if it ever became necessary for health, count me in!
It's not necessary for health. With modern vitamin supplements, it need not be actively harmful to health, but any restricted diet requires extra care to meet nutrition needs versus a more varied diet.
You can be very healthy on either a vegan or a non-vegan diet, and conversely you can be very unhealthy on a vegan or a non-vegan diet.
Interested? Sure, I'd try it once! Maybe not right now, but if it ever became necessary for health, count me in!
It's not necessary for health. With modern vitamin supplements, it need not be actively harmful to health, but any restricted diet requires extra care to meet nutrition needs versus a more varied diet.
You can be very healthy on either a vegan or a non-vegan diet, and conversely you can be very unhealthy on a vegan or a non-vegan diet.
True, but sometimes one's doctor can decide that such a radical lifestyle is necessary. After all, one does not usually go gluten-free without prescription to do so.
Interested? Sure, I'd try it once! Maybe not right now, but if it ever became necessary for health, count me in!
It's not necessary for health. With modern vitamin supplements, it need not be actively harmful to health, but any restricted diet requires extra care to meet nutrition needs versus a more varied diet.
You can be very healthy on either a vegan or a non-vegan diet, and conversely you can be very unhealthy on a vegan or a non-vegan diet.
True, but sometimes one's doctor can decide that such a radical lifestyle is necessary. After all, one does not usually go gluten-free without prescription to do so.
I'll not disagree with you on the first point. Doctors can and will prescribe specific diets for health purposes... keto for brain disorders is a common example.
But, to argue your second point, the vast majority of the people that I've met who've gone gluten free did not receive any kind of diagnosis but simply read a book, or an article and decided to do it. I have a reasonable sized friend group who are gluten free and only two of those people eat gluten free for specifically prescribed reasons... one is chrohn's disease and the other an as of yet undiagnosed auto-immune disorder.
Interested? Sure, I'd try it once! Maybe not right now, but if it ever became necessary for health, count me in!
It's not necessary for health. With modern vitamin supplements, it need not be actively harmful to health, but any restricted diet requires extra care to meet nutrition needs versus a more varied diet.
You can be very healthy on either a vegan or a non-vegan diet, and conversely you can be very unhealthy on a vegan or a non-vegan diet.
True, but sometimes one's doctor can decide that such a radical lifestyle is necessary. After all, one does not usually go gluten-free without prescription to do so.
I'll not disagree with you on the first point. Doctors can and will prescribe specific diets for health purposes... keto for brain disorders is a common example.
But, to argue your second point, the vast majority of the people that I've met who've gone gluten free did not receive any kind of diagnosis but simply read a book, or an article and decided to do it. I have a reasonable sized friend group who are gluten free and only two of those people eat gluten free for specifically prescribed reasons... one is chrohn's disease and the other an as of yet undiagnosed auto-immune disorder.
I would agree on the gluten free issue. I knew several people who thought a variety of gluten items makes you fat. But i know 2 people who have to do it for legitimate reasons, 1. My wifes friend with celiac and 2. My wife with POTS.
What most people dont realize is many gluten free versions have mlre calories than the non gluten version.
@BecomingBane, true. As I mentioned, that's not usually the case, though. As you no doubt know, one should ideally ask the doctor before pursuing a major diet/exercise program. I meant to use GF life as an example of health decisions that are best made with physician guidance. Low-sodium living is another such example. More power to those who can undertake such a radical change alone, though!
I, for one, would be content to try excluding animal products from my life only if my healthcare team asked me to do so.
I hope your friend receives a more detailed answer/diagnosis soon!
@BecomingBane, true. As I mentioned, that's not usually the case, though. As you no doubt know, one should ideally ask the doctor before pursuing a major diet/exercise program. I meant to use GF life as an example of health decisions that are best made with physician guidance. Low-sodium living is another such example. More power to those who can undertake such a radical change alone, though!
Honestly, most doctors have little or no knowledge of nutrtion unless its their specialty.
Edit: in fact, i have had discussuons with my wifes electrophysiologist and even he was surprised about my knowledge and i was making recommendations to him on the best supplements for electrolytes to help his patients.
Also, my friend is a University of Penn trained pedantic cardiologist and she knows nothing about nutrition. She has specialists for that.
@BecomingBane, true. As I mentioned, that's not usually the case, though. As you no doubt know, one should ideally ask the doctor before pursuing a major diet/exercise program. I meant to use GF life as an example of health decisions that are best made with physician guidance. Low-sodium living is another such example. More power to those who can undertake such a radical change alone, though!
The bolded above is a very insightful statement, but the vast majority of people I talk to via IRL conversation, on this board or others that I frequent, don't tend to do that. Very few people I know consult their doctor with dietary nutrition or fitness changes that occur in their life, even if they are regularly seeing the doctor for other reasons.
While it would be ideal if that occurred prior to any lifestyle change, fitness plan, etc... it very rarely seems to.
I don't think your points are invalid, and I'm not really trying to argue with you, but it appears from my perspective that you are confusing what you do personally and what the correct thing is to do, with what actually occurs for the majority of individuals. The two can be drastically different, especially as locales change as their are many environmental factors that prevent many from going to the doctor for varying reasons not limited to beliefs, budgetary concerns, disbelief in modern medicine (or beliefs in other medicine systems such as traditional Indian or Chinese medicine, ignorance of health concerns in general, fear of doctors, etc.
Interested? Sure, I'd try it once! Maybe not right now, but if it ever became necessary for health, count me in!
It's not necessary for health. With modern vitamin supplements, it need not be actively harmful to health, but any restricted diet requires extra care to meet nutrition needs versus a more varied diet.
You can be very healthy on either a vegan or a non-vegan diet, and conversely you can be very unhealthy on a vegan or a non-vegan diet.
True, but sometimes one's doctor can decide that such a radical lifestyle is necessary. After all, one does not usually go gluten-free without prescription to do so.
I'll not disagree with you on the first point. Doctors can and will prescribe specific diets for health purposes... keto for brain disorders is a common example.
But, to argue your second point, the vast majority of the people that I've met who've gone gluten free did not receive any kind of diagnosis but simply read a book, or an article and decided to do it. I have a reasonable sized friend group who are gluten free and only two of those people eat gluten free for specifically prescribed reasons... one is chrohn's disease and the other an as of yet undiagnosed auto-immune disorder.
I would agree on the gluten free issue. I knew several people who thought a variety of gluten items makes you fat. But i know 2 people who have to do it for legitimate reasons, 1. My wifes friend with celiac and 2. My wife with POTS.
What most people dont realize is many gluten free versions have mlre calories than the non gluten version.
Me too. I know people who are celiac, so no question it is sometimes necessary or beneficial. I know many others who have just decided to try gluten-free or diagnosed themselves as gluten-sensitive with no dr involvement, because it's currently a thing and I live in a subculture that is into faddish diets.
My sister decided last year that gluten was causing some skin issue she had and was telling me how she thought she had to go gluten free while making herself dinner (pasta). I couldn't help but say kind of snidely "you know pasta has gluten, right?" She said "I didn't mean I was going to do it now." She has since dropped the idea and decided her issue is wool (clothing) and feta cheese.
I recently became an vegan, as did my boyfriend. My boyfriend actually gained muscle from making the switch from animal protein to plant protein. Why? I'm not sure. He still eats the same calories. Just better nutrition. I, on the other hand, am a fat vegan. I am losing weight now that I am vegan. I have not done a lot of exercise lately so I cannot comment on my muscle and it's strengths. I do lose more inches and fewer pounds more quickly as a vegan in comparison to when I was dieting and omnivorous. I very much believe it has to do with the limitations as a vegan. It's hard to eat junk. I usually stick to chick peas and mixed veggies, nori, rice, and occasional fruits.
He gained muscle on the same calories, and the same exercise? How did you determine he gained muscle?
Its not a fad diet for everyone. I get digestive issues when I eat gluten even though ive been tested negative for celiac. I dont replace gluten foods with other gluten free processed foods because those can give me issues as well.
If you havent been in the shoes of the people who think they are gluten sensitive then you dont really know what it feels like. It seems unnecessary and wrong to judge them, no?
Also gluten is not a nutritional necessity. If you quit it, you dont end up being deficient in any vitamins or lose out on anything important that your body needs. Its not that big of deal.
I love that gluten free helps me also avoid high calorie junk food but theres other reasons nonceliacs become gf.
In all fairness, no one particular food or food group is nutritionally required. It's why there are so many elimination type diets.
Replies
B12 supplementation is pretty easy -- lots of non-vegans also supplement B12.
I agree with this statement, but then again, I'm biased. So, whatevs.
Arm wrestle you for it.
You can have all of my tofu, from now until I die.
It's not necessary for health. With modern vitamin supplements, it need not be actively harmful to health, but any restricted diet requires extra care to meet nutrition needs versus a more varied diet.
You can be very healthy on either a vegan or a non-vegan diet, and conversely you can be very unhealthy on a vegan or a non-vegan diet.
I'll not disagree with you on the first point. Doctors can and will prescribe specific diets for health purposes... keto for brain disorders is a common example.
But, to argue your second point, the vast majority of the people that I've met who've gone gluten free did not receive any kind of diagnosis but simply read a book, or an article and decided to do it. I have a reasonable sized friend group who are gluten free and only two of those people eat gluten free for specifically prescribed reasons... one is chrohn's disease and the other an as of yet undiagnosed auto-immune disorder.
I would agree on the gluten free issue. I knew several people who thought a variety of gluten items makes you fat. But i know 2 people who have to do it for legitimate reasons, 1. My wifes friend with celiac and 2. My wife with POTS.
What most people dont realize is many gluten free versions have mlre calories than the non gluten version.
I, for one, would be content to try excluding animal products from my life only if my healthcare team asked me to do so.
I hope your friend receives a more detailed answer/diagnosis soon!
Honestly, most doctors have little or no knowledge of nutrtion unless its their specialty.
Edit: in fact, i have had discussuons with my wifes electrophysiologist and even he was surprised about my knowledge and i was making recommendations to him on the best supplements for electrolytes to help his patients.
Also, my friend is a University of Penn trained pedantic cardiologist and she knows nothing about nutrition. She has specialists for that.
The bolded above is a very insightful statement, but the vast majority of people I talk to via IRL conversation, on this board or others that I frequent, don't tend to do that. Very few people I know consult their doctor with dietary nutrition or fitness changes that occur in their life, even if they are regularly seeing the doctor for other reasons.
While it would be ideal if that occurred prior to any lifestyle change, fitness plan, etc... it very rarely seems to.
I don't think your points are invalid, and I'm not really trying to argue with you, but it appears from my perspective that you are confusing what you do personally and what the correct thing is to do, with what actually occurs for the majority of individuals. The two can be drastically different, especially as locales change as their are many environmental factors that prevent many from going to the doctor for varying reasons not limited to beliefs, budgetary concerns, disbelief in modern medicine (or beliefs in other medicine systems such as traditional Indian or Chinese medicine, ignorance of health concerns in general, fear of doctors, etc.
*Edited for spelling
Me too. I know people who are celiac, so no question it is sometimes necessary or beneficial. I know many others who have just decided to try gluten-free or diagnosed themselves as gluten-sensitive with no dr involvement, because it's currently a thing and I live in a subculture that is into faddish diets.
My sister decided last year that gluten was causing some skin issue she had and was telling me how she thought she had to go gluten free while making herself dinner (pasta). I couldn't help but say kind of snidely "you know pasta has gluten, right?" She said "I didn't mean I was going to do it now." She has since dropped the idea and decided her issue is wool (clothing) and feta cheese.
He gained muscle on the same calories, and the same exercise? How did you determine he gained muscle?
In all fairness, no one particular food or food group is nutritionally required. It's why there are so many elimination type diets.
Me too, especially those competing in the Iron Man triathlons.