Vegan gone unvegan because of bone broth craze?
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
I wouldn't stop being vegan for bacon or custard or lasagna with fresh mozzarella, but at least those things are understandable. For a bowl of broth? No. This just doesn't compute.
the only thing I ever miss is sushi... and while I have fond memories of it, I'm not actually tempted by it.
If I were to become vegan, it isn't sushi that would cause me the most problem - there's plenty of sushi types that are vegan that I already like. It probably wouldn't really be the meat or fish, either - though I would definitely miss some of it.
Mainly, it would be things made with eggs, or dairy. For a lot of bakery goods, there just is not a half-way decent substitute.
Yeah, things are getting better and better every year, but eggs and dairy are at the cornerstone of so many baked goods that there is sometimes a gap.
I dunno... my SO and I bake all the time and it's fairly simple to accomplish provided you have experimented with binders to determine the best use/most flavorful binder for each use.
That said, it doesn't taste quite the same, but I don't ever think of things as substitues intended to taste/texture the same... I prefer to think of them as homages, or tributes... not quite accurate recreations or interpretations. It helps with that issue.
I also bake frequently. I haven't yet found a really good substitute for pastry cream/custard. If you have something to suggest, send it my way!
Unfortunately, that's not something we have experimented with so I don't have any personal advice there. But, here's a recipe that seems feasible.
http://thegrumpysailor.com/2014/09/20/custard-slice/
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BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
I wouldn't stop being vegan for bacon or custard or lasagna with fresh mozzarella, but at least those things are understandable. For a bowl of broth? No. This just doesn't compute.
the only thing I ever miss is sushi... and while I have fond memories of it, I'm not actually tempted by it.
If I were to become vegan, it isn't sushi that would cause me the most problem - there's plenty of sushi types that are vegan that I already like. It probably wouldn't really be the meat or fish, either - though I would definitely miss some of it.
Mainly, it would be things made with eggs, or dairy. For a lot of bakery goods, there just is not a half-way decent substitute.
Yeah, things are getting better and better every year, but eggs and dairy are at the cornerstone of so many baked goods that there is sometimes a gap.
I dunno... my SO and I bake all the time and it's fairly simple to accomplish provided you have experimented with binders to determine the best use/most flavorful binder for each use.
That said, it doesn't taste quite the same, but I don't ever think of things as substitues intended to taste/texture the same... I prefer to think of them as homages, or tributes... not quite accurate recreations or interpretations. It helps with that issue.
I also bake frequently. I haven't yet found a really good substitute for pastry cream/custard. If you have something to suggest, send it my way!
Unfortunately, that's not something we have experimented with so I don't have any personal advice there. But, here's a recipe that seems feasible.
http://thegrumpysailor.com/2014/09/20/custard-slice/
Thanks!0 -
I'd like to eat (drink) bone broth, but I don't have the equipment/location/patience to cook anything for 48 hrs. I saw some for sale on amazon for ridiculous prices. Bummer.
Some vegans here seem to think everyone went vegan for ethical reasons. I have 2 friends that went vegan purely for health reasons, so this isn't true.
The vegan diet is pretty healthy from a micro-nutrient standpoint, if implemented correctly. The only thing you'd have to supplement to make it as healthy as it would be with meat is B-12. That being said, even if properly implemented special attention needs to be paid to Niacin, Choline and Calcium. Doable, but a bit of a challenge. Of course both vegan and diets with meat are deficient in Vitamin D, so it's best to supplement if you can't get out in the sun on a regular basis.
Personally, I eat about 15% animal products (by calorie) every day. Not only can I get all my micronutrients (except vitamin D) easily, but I also feel safer, since we are discovering new things about nutrition all the time. I think it's a little risky to completely remove animal products from our diets.0 -
leosmith66 wrote: »I'd like to eat (drink) bone broth, but I don't have the equipment/location/patience to cook anything for 48 hrs. I saw some for sale on amazon for ridiculous prices. Bummer.
Some vegans here seem to think everyone went vegan for ethical reasons. I have 2 friends that went vegan purely for health reasons, so this isn't true.
The vegan diet is pretty healthy from a micro-nutrient standpoint, if implemented correctly. The only thing you'd have to supplement to make it as healthy as it would be with meat is B-12. That being said, even if properly implemented special attention needs to be paid to Niacin, Choline and Calcium. Doable, but a bit of a challenge. Of course both vegan and diets with meat are deficient in Vitamin D, so it's best to supplement if you can't get out in the sun on a regular basis.
Personally, I eat about 15% animal products (by calorie) every day. Not only can I get all my micronutrients (except vitamin D) easily, but I also feel safer, since we are discovering new things about nutrition all the time. I think it's a little risky to completely remove animal products from our diets.
People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Your friends are on a plant-based diet. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.0 -
OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.0 -
It's ridiculous. The bone broth is a huge fad among the naturopathics. I went to see a naturopath after I was vegan for a year and had allergies and she told me if I didn't eat meat I would die. LOL I'm still alive and healthier than ever been 5 years later! Another friend of mine with health problems was also told she had to eat bone broth instead of being vegan, and it made her sicker. They misdiagnosed her and she has lymes disease, so eating bone broth did not help in the least.
We can get every nutrient we need from plants. It's highly documented in plenty of studies. Check out nutritionfacts.org. He's a doctor who studies peer reviewed evidence about plant based diets and does videos about them- all of his proceeds go to charity and he is not bought out by any corporations, like other sources are. He might have something about bone broth. Check in his search box.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
I wouldn't stop being vegan for bacon or custard or lasagna with fresh mozzarella, but at least those things are understandable. For a bowl of broth? No. This just doesn't compute.
the only thing I ever miss is sushi... and while I have fond memories of it, I'm not actually tempted by it.
Huh? Vegan sushi is the best! I eat it all the time!0 -
live2dream wrote: »It's ridiculous. The bone broth is a huge fad among the naturopathics. I went to see a naturopath after I was vegan for a year and had allergies and she told me if I didn't eat meat I would die. LOL I'm still alive and healthier than ever been 5 years later! Another friend of mine with health problems was also told she had to eat bone broth instead of being vegan, and it made her sicker. They misdiagnosed her and she has lymes disease, so eating bone broth did not help in the least.
We can get every nutrient we need from plants. It's highly documented in plenty of studies. Check out nutritionfacts.org. He's a doctor who studies peer reviewed evidence about plant based diets and does videos about them- all of his proceeds go to charity and he is not bought out by any corporations, like other sources are. He might have something about bone broth. Check in his search box.
It doesn't look like that website has any content about bone broth.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »leosmith66 wrote: »I'd like to eat (drink) bone broth, but I don't have the equipment/location/patience to cook anything for 48 hrs. I saw some for sale on amazon for ridiculous prices. Bummer.
Some vegans here seem to think everyone went vegan for ethical reasons. I have 2 friends that went vegan purely for health reasons, so this isn't true.
The vegan diet is pretty healthy from a micro-nutrient standpoint, if implemented correctly. The only thing you'd have to supplement to make it as healthy as it would be with meat is B-12. That being said, even if properly implemented special attention needs to be paid to Niacin, Choline and Calcium. Doable, but a bit of a challenge. Of course both vegan and diets with meat are deficient in Vitamin D, so it's best to supplement if you can't get out in the sun on a regular basis.
Personally, I eat about 15% animal products (by calorie) every day. Not only can I get all my micronutrients (except vitamin D) easily, but I also feel safer, since we are discovering new things about nutrition all the time. I think it's a little risky to completely remove animal products from our diets.
People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Your friends are on a plant-based diet. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
I think this distinction is important for lots of reasons, mainly because one is a WoE and the other a Way of Life. To me, those are two different things. The only real contention that I have with that label, though, is the ease of conversation and the level of expectations I can have when having a conversation with someone. It's much easier to give someone advice if I know whether they are a plant based dieter vs ethical vegan as the advice that I give might change based on which label they use.
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live2dream wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
I wouldn't stop being vegan for bacon or custard or lasagna with fresh mozzarella, but at least those things are understandable. For a bowl of broth? No. This just doesn't compute.
the only thing I ever miss is sushi... and while I have fond memories of it, I'm not actually tempted by it.
Huh? Vegan sushi is the best! I eat it all the time!
Yes, I know that, but it's inherently different. Not a value judgement as I'm not saying one is better or worse from a purely flavor standpoint (not talking ethical concerns, here)... just different.0 -
You've either forgotten or never learned basic logic. If you make a statement, and that statement isn't always true, then that statement is false. Therefore the statement "people go vegan for ethical reasons" is false. All it takes is one person to go vegan for some other reason to make the statement false. Please understand that I'm not arguing against veganism; I'm arguing against making false statements.janejellyroll wrote: »People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Your friends are on a plant-based diet. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
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No, vegan means avoiding animal suffering. If you don't care about that, you are doing a plant based diet.0
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leosmith66 wrote: »
You've either forgotten or never learned basic logic. If you make a statement, and that statement isn't always true, then that statement is false. Therefore the statement "people go vegan for ethical reasons" is false. All it takes is one person to go vegan for some other reason to make the statement false. Please understand that I'm not arguing against veganism; I'm arguing against making false statements.janejellyroll wrote: »People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Your friends are on a plant-based diet. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
Name a single reason why someone would eschew all animal based products (not just food) if not for ethical reasons.0 -
For the hell of it?0
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leosmith66 wrote: »
You've either forgotten or never learned basic logic. If you make a statement, and that statement isn't always true, then that statement is false. Therefore the statement "people go vegan for ethical reasons" is false. All it takes is one person to go vegan for some other reason to make the statement false. Please understand that I'm not arguing against veganism; I'm arguing against making false statements.janejellyroll wrote: »People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Your friends are on a plant-based diet. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
Veganism is an ethical position. Why would someone adopt an ethical position for reasons unrelated to ethics?
I understand that you aren't arguing against veganism. I'm not even sure why you felt it necessary to point that out as nothing I have said assumes that you are arguing against it.
People can adopt a plant-based diet for a variety of reasons. I believe that may be what you're talking about -- a plant-based diet. If not, can you provide an example of the type of person you're talking about?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Vegan "bone broth" is what? Just . . .broth?
It's hard for me to imagine someone overcoming an objection to animal exploitation just to consume broth. It seems like just another food trend to me.
I have a colleague on this crazy train. She has a myriad of health issues and is certain that bone broth will fix them (among other trends/fads/"ideas"...)
And no, it doesn't seem to be working.0 -
I understand now. We are using different definitions of "vegan". I googled it, and the most common definition I found was a person who eats a plant-based diet. To avoid confusion, maybe differentiating by using "ethical vegan", or at least explaining that you are disagreeing with the definition would help.janejellyroll wrote: »Veganism is an ethical position.0 -
leosmith66 wrote: »
I understand now. We are using different definitions of "vegan". I googled it, and the most common definition I found was a person who eats a plant-based diet. To avoid confusion, maybe differentiating by using "ethical vegan", or at least explaining that you are disagreeing with the definition would help.janejellyroll wrote: »Veganism is an ethical position.
I'm not sure exactly what you Googled, but the term itself was created to describe people who object to animal exploitation. If people want to change the meaning of the word to mean those who only avoid animal products in food but are okay with animal exploitation, that's their right. But they're taking an word with an established definition and changing it. Resulting confusion is a result of their decision -- not my continuing to use the word to mean what it has always meant.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).0
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