Feminists and nonconformists - where do your goals come from?

My impetus to lose weight was mostly based on health and comfort, although I'd be lying if I said appearance had nothing to do with it. As I gained weight, I lost confidence, which I think negatively impacted not only my social life but my career. It held me back from speaking my mind and inserting myself into important conversations. I'm a lawyer, and nobody trusts a lawyer without confidence.

At one time, I would have blamed "society" for making me feel that I didn't belong, for making me feel like everyone was judging me for being overweight. What I realize now is that I made myself feel that way, and that I had the power to change it. Empowerment- that is real feminism.

A lot of my feelings on the topic have already been covered. I'm also glad to see men contributing to the discussion because, as mentioned, you don't have to be female to be feminist. Additionally, men benefit from feminism as well.

A big part of my goals do have to do with appearance. But it's what I like to look like, not what anyone else has said I should look like (My husband has commented that he loves how my back looks, which is really nice, but I didn't make these goals just to please him.) I also love feeling strong from my workouts, and knowing I can do whatever I set my mind to.

To me, feminism means we are all free and responsible to set our own goals, without having to bow to gender stereotypes or expectations. You don't have to set goals contrary to the mainstream ideas; just decide what you like and what you want (and yes, that may be influenced by media, etc. But you can still chose whether you like that or not)

cristalball wrote: »

How do you know if you are bowing to society's views and pressures to try to obtain the "ideal" body or if your goals are more internally and personally motivated? Or does it even matter? I ask because I'm not sure for my own goals and was curious about others.

I am of the opinion that it doesn't matter. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about my choices (on any subject) with respect to whether or not they make me a feminist. I also don't think about whether or not I should do things based on my gender. To me, that is the true aim of feminism. It shouldn't be about women attempting equality with men or superiority to men. It should be about doing what we want without thinking about it in terms of gender...because it doesn't matter.

ETA: This goes both ways for me. Men should be able to do things that are traditionally seen as feminine without receiving flak for it.

Cool. I don't have the time to quote and copy all of the wonderful things I am reading here right now but know that I am loving this thread.

I am a strong independent woman. Single mother to three. I am most decidedly a feminist and feminine. I love that I can choose how I will portray myself and that I can set a role model for my two daughters and my son. I wish to be strong inside and out. I will not be defined by society. Period.

Keep on keepin' on my feminist friends.

It's hard to detangle my goals because of course I'd /like/ to be considered more attractive to others. Though that is also a scary thought, in some ways I feel like I've been "protected" from a lot of the negative attention many of my conventionally attractive friends have to deal with, like catcalling.

I actually think in some ways not wanting to care about what I looked like kept me from acknowledging my weight as a health concern until I realized I was actually obese and it was affecting my health and quality of life. I had seen "fat" as only an aesthetic issue that I /shouldn't/ care about, that I was ashamed to care about, instead of a health issue.

But my goals have nothing to do with just being skinny. My goals are to be healthier, be more active, and be less unhappy with my life and my choices. I don't really believe I ever will be thin, I don't buy magazines, and I have no interest in fad diets or "cleanses". I want to treat my body with respect, be comfortable in my embodied self rather than just thinking of myself as a brain in an unpleasant physical case. My goals are improved physical and mental well being. And if I daydream sometimes about turning heads and being cute, well, that's okay too.

Feminism means one thing to me. Choice. I choose to be slender and healthy.

For me, feminism is about what you believe, not how you look. I dress very "girly." Blame the ballet and figure skating when I was younger. That doesn't mean I believe in traditional gender roles or that I dress that way to meet someone's/society's expectations. I do it for me--it's what I like! Other people should dress how they like. People need to be able to be themselves, not be fit into society's boxes so other people feel comfortable about their identity because they "know" who they are. It's not my job to make myself look or act in a certain way so others feel like their world is in its proper order. Personally, I despise the inequity and stereotypes of our society. I want to be who I am, and I want that for everyone else. (Serial killers and pedophiles, aside, of course!)

I lost weight because I was unhealthy. My Dad had diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol. Then he had a heart attack and was miserable and in a hospital for the last six months of his life. Now my mom's having a lot of the same struggles. A lot of those issues can be combated by a healthy weight, exercise and a healthy diet (for me--mostly lean protein, veggies, fruits, healthy fats, fiber, and limiting added sugar).

I've always loved weight-lifting. I'm 5'3 and 119 and have guys tell me when I'm on the leg press, "I wish I could do that." I add 590 to the sled right now. I love being strong and being able to lift stuff. I love improving my running times and durations. I love increasing my flexibility with yoga. Ariel yoga is NEXT!!!

Do I think I look good, sure! Do I care about how I look in comparison to others? Nope--who has time for all that crap? We're all different. Overall, I thought the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue with its three covers and use of some not all "typical model size" models was awesome this year and a HUGE (pardon the pun) step forward. Beauty and sexy in different shapes and sizes!

I mostly just want to fit into a smaller dress size again. Also, I'm trying to shift my excess weight now, at 20 because I know it'll be easier to lose. I'm not sure if I'm overweight and if I am it's only slightly but I'm doing this for myself. My girlfriend loves my body and she wouldn't care if I stayed this size but I want to be healthier for me.

It's a good question, OP. Cultural currents influence all of us, even those going against the current. Comments about goals and cultural influence changing with age/maturity resonate for me, too. Appearance mattered more to me when I was younger, as did opinions of others. I really don't care much about either now, nor about clothes, but I enjoy my body/strength more for my own sake than I used to when younger. I surprised myself realizing I like a lower bf% than I had when young (and fit). Just because of how it feels when running.

Another thought is some of us seek attention while others want to escape attention. I've heard sexual abuse survivors say they hide behind their bodies and fear (or rebel against) being "attractive" per cultural ideals. In a more subtle vein, I realized that one aspect of my goal when younger was to be a size that would escape attention, mostly from overly opinionated family members.

rabbitjb wrote: »

I'm a feminist

I want to look hot

Yep. That would describe me, too.

Of course, we're both aware that what looks "hot" is subjective, and we've come up with our own ideas of said hotness. (I think you and I have similar ideas of that, too, lol)

Are my goals and desires and personal aesthetic influenced by the larger culture, which is pretty sexist and patriarchal in a lot of ways? Heck yeah. I'm not a magician who can eliminate the impact of decades of media and social imagery and pressure on my own mind.

Does that make me a bad feminist? No. Feminism is about recognizing those places where we're still falling short as a society in providing equal opportunity and treatment for everyone, where there's room for improvement, and where we are placing unreasonable demands and pressures on others and ourselves. It's not about becoming flawless living embodiments of the version of ourselves who already lives in a perfectly egalitarian world (if we could even accurately conceive of and execute what that might look like for each of us).

It's pretty silly to blame the targets of various kinds of oppression for behaviors motivated by that oppression, even if that seems like the easiest way to tackle it. "Hey, stop acting so oppressed!" to an individual is a much easier, but lazier and less useful thing to say then "Hey, stop oppressing people" to a larger system that's actually doing it.

Looked at objectively, it's pretty silly that men can wear their body hair unaltered and women are considered shocking outliers if not outright disgusting in many settings if they don't remove it. That makes no objective sense. But it doesn't follow that a woman who bows to that pressure and shaves or waxes- whether because she feels external pressure from the social setting she moves in to do so or because she's totally internalized the idea that it IS gross to have body hair- is a "bad feminist."

If she goes around telling *other* women that they're disgusting for having body hair, that's some bad feminism. And it's probably worthwhile to each of us to confront and interrogate the gender-based expectations placed on us, even if we ultimately choose to comply with them. But making choices or having thoughts or feelings that conform to patriarchal ideals is not an inherently antifeminist thing, and blaming the targets of social control for being socially influenced is kind of a jerk move.

I have simply decided how I want to look and have gone for it. Some of my goals might be things that others find appealing and some of my goals may not. Just because a few of the things I personally find pleasing are also things many others like doesn't mean I'm "conforming" to others standards.

I'm more motivated by being able to DO things (keep up with my kids, be able to run a few miles, be able to go hiking without getting out of breath, be able to lift the things I need and want to, etc.) than the way I look, but I do want to look better also.

The other big issue is my health. Cardiovascular disease runs in my family. My dad just had a stroke at 49 and has lost a lot of use of his left foot and left hand. He just had a double bypass also, because his heart is a ticking time bomb of clogged and hardened arteries. My mom, at 49 also, is pre-diabetic, obese, has high blood pressure, and in need of a knee replacement due to damage from long-term obesity. My grandmother is obese, as are my uncles, aunts, and nearly everyone else, even my aunts and uncles who are in their early 40's, and they are all on cholesterol and BP medications, can't manage to walk very far without joint pain and/or difficulty breathing. My father's father had a quadruple bypass at 60-ish after a major heart attack. I don't want to be in that boat when I hit my 40's and 50's, etc. I plan on being active, strong, and full of life as long as I possibly can. I didn't grow up eating very healthy food, as my family was pretty poor and we couldn't really afford fresh vegetables and/or fruit, so a lot of the challenge for me is to retrain my palette to enjoy more vegetables and non-junk food.

I'm also a strong supporter of women's rights and equality for all and am most definitely a feminist.

emmycantbemeeko wrote: »

Are my goals and desires and personal aesthetic influenced by the larger culture, which is pretty sexist and patriarchal in a lot of ways? Heck yeah. I'm not a magician who can eliminate the impact of decades of media and social imagery and pressure on my own mind.

Does that make me a bad feminist? No. Feminism is about recognizing those places where we're still falling short as a society in providing equal opportunity and treatment for everyone, where there's room for improvement, and where we are placing unreasonable demands and pressures on others and ourselves. It's not about becoming flawless living embodiments of the version of ourselves who already lives in a perfectly egalitarian world (if we could even accurately conceive of and execute what that might look like for each of us).

It's pretty silly to blame the targets of various kinds of oppression for behaviors motivated by that oppression, even if that seems like the easiest way to tackle it. "Hey, stop acting so oppressed!" to an individual is a much easier, but lazier and less useful thing to say then "Hey, stop oppressing people" to a larger system that's actually doing it.

Looked at objectively, it's pretty silly that men can wear their body hair unaltered and women are considered shocking outliers if not outright disgusting in many settings if they don't remove it. That makes no objective sense. But it doesn't follow that a woman who bows to that pressure and shaves or waxes- whether because she feels external pressure from the social setting she moves in to do so or because she's totally internalized the idea that it IS gross to have body hair- is a "bad feminist."

If she goes around telling *other* women that they're disgusting for having body hair, that's some bad feminism. And it's probably worthwhile to each of us to confront and interrogate the gender-based expectations placed on us, even if we ultimately choose to comply with them. But making choices or having thoughts or feelings that conform to patriarchal ideals is not an inherently antifeminist thing, and blaming the targets of social control for being socially influenced is kind of a jerk move.

Fantastic answer.