Cardio isn't for "fat burning".
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Don't drink before bed. Fat is the primary fuel at rest, but if you have alcohol in your system, then until it's metabolized (alcohol can't be stored in the body), all other energy sources are nixed.If I'm still at a calorie deficit, how does alcohol play into this? Or does it still come down to calories in vs out, regardless if it's wine, or grilled chicken?? (Sorry if this has been asked before!) I just don't want to unknowingly hinder my efforts if I happen to have 2 glasses of wine or cocktails. (But still creating a calorie deficit)
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Say what you want but for me personally exercise is the key to my weight loss. Maybe not 100% because of the calorie burn, but that exercise keeps me honest. It's a daily reminder to keep my diet on track. It also makes it a lot easier to keep at a calorie deficit for a longer term.
If I stop exercising I start to gain weight, because my healthy portion control falls off the wagon.
I've gained or lost the same 20-30 lbs repeatedly and know this to be true. For me. I'd just as soon be able to lose weight without exercise but it's a behavior thing for me.0 -
DancingDarl wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »
It's a snobbery group of people who only do weight lifting and think and state that it's better
Who says that?DancingDarl wrote: »We are all starving our bodies slightly off of our TDEE to lose fat. Cardio is good for fat loss yes- of course you cannot ever out exercise a bad diet. A bad diet is eating too many calories also as well as not eating nutritious fuel. There are plenty of people who would say they prefer weight lifting because it increases fat loss, by increasing metabolism...??
Would love to hear your expert advice on that..
who said that in this thread???
A group of fitness guru chicks that work at fitness first-hate the crap ppl spam-myths it's getting on my nerves. Totally works against people just starting out like young women who are new to all this
so no one in this thread said that…?
you seem to have a lot of bit up hate towards people that lift weights and/or are heavy into fitness….you might want to let it go...
It is misleading and misguided to preach that that is the only kind of exercise that they should do. Such a back wash attitude..
Yeah but this has nothing to do with this thread because nobody here said that. You can create a new thread to discuss the topic you are mentioning.0 -
I'm actually quite surprised at my reaction to some of those physiques, clearly they must be fit but a number looked unpleasantly underweight to me. I find it interesting how we all have different desired body aesthetics..I'm clearly no elite athlete and I've never aspired to run...perhaps that's a good thing...I must think a bit on my reaction though ...I actually found some of the shots unpleasant...I had a similar reaction as I do to images of emaciated underage catwalk models ...hmmm...
Something for me to explore further
Your reaction is totally understood. If you show up at a running marathon, or a huge endurance bike race, or triathlon as a spectator or participant - one's initial reaction could certainly be one of shock when you see all of the low body fat athletes lingering about. The upper body mass is not needed for runners or cyclists as that is simply excess weight they have to carry up the hills as the "power to weight ratio" is a key element. Through genetics and training, one is limited on how much they can increase their power - so lowering the weight without losing the power is the result in getting such low body fat (and low upper body muscle balance) to achieve that.
Depending on the marathon, prize money for 1st place can range from $1500 to $100,000+. Even those who are not "in the money" - or elite enough to compete with the best - have the similar low body fat until you get down into the "slow pokes" and folks doing an event for a cause, or to raise money, or just to cross it off their bucket list. You won't find the same low body fat in the latter group.
The "Kenyans"...
Again - shocking to see for those not acquainted with endurance athletes.
Tour de France winners are shocking to see as well (again have to be light to win by going up the Alps with their best or ideal competitive power to weight ratio)...
Most of these elite cyclists and runners train to peak for certain events. Their body fat percentage is not as low all year long - usually centered around the event or events that they have peaked for in any given season.
You would all be equally shocked at the best - and highest paid - prima ballerinas at all of the great ballet companies throughout the world.
Here is what many consider the best in the world. She weighs in at 99 pounds. Why are the prima ballerinas so light, with low body fat percentage? They have to be lifted by the male dancers.
Getting off topic here and I am not advocating endurance athletics. I was just trying to point out that running can (as well as other forms of cardio such as cycling) - depending on how much of it one does, and what other training they do or don't do - end up in a very low body fat percentage for females and males alike. The lower muscle mass in the upper body is specific to only certain sports.0 -
That's still CICO. Lots of people exercise to enjoy eating more. Nothing wrong with that.Say what you want but for me personally exercise is the key to my weight loss. Maybe not 100% because of the calorie burn, but that exercise keeps me honest. It's a daily reminder to keep my diet on track. It also makes it a lot easier to keep at a calorie deficit for a longer term.
If I stop exercising I start to gain weight, because my healthy portion control falls off the wagon.
I've gained or lost the same 20-30 lbs repeatedly and know this to be true. For me. I'd just as soon be able to lose weight without exercise but it's a behavior thing for me.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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DancingDarl wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »DancingDarl wrote: »
It's a snobbery group of people who only do weight lifting and think and state that it's better
Who says that?DancingDarl wrote: »We are all starving our bodies slightly off of our TDEE to lose fat. Cardio is good for fat loss yes- of course you cannot ever out exercise a bad diet. A bad diet is eating too many calories also as well as not eating nutritious fuel. There are plenty of people who would say they prefer weight lifting because it increases fat loss, by increasing metabolism...??
Would love to hear your expert advice on that..
who said that in this thread???
A group of fitness guru chicks that work at fitness first-hate the crap ppl spam-myths it's getting on my nerves. Totally works against people just starting out like young women who are new to all this
so no one in this thread said that…?
you seem to have a lot of bit up hate towards people that lift weights and/or are heavy into fitness….you might want to let it go...
It is misleading and misguided to preach that that is the only kind of exercise that they should do. Such a back wash attitude..
who in this thread has said that?0 -
Let me just interject by saying that many athletes who depend on low body weight for events or sport (including dance) have ED issues. Especially amongst dancers, jockey riders, and long distance athletes. It's a issue not talked about much because the assumption is that they are lean because they are athletic.SingingSingleTracker wrote: »I'm actually quite surprised at my reaction to some of those physiques, clearly they must be fit but a number looked unpleasantly underweight to me. I find it interesting how we all have different desired body aesthetics..I'm clearly no elite athlete and I've never aspired to run...perhaps that's a good thing...I must think a bit on my reaction though ...I actually found some of the shots unpleasant...I had a similar reaction as I do to images of emaciated underage catwalk models ...hmmm...
Something for me to explore further
Your reaction is totally understood. If you show up at a running marathon, or a huge endurance bike race, or triathlon as a spectator or participant - one's initial reaction could certainly be one of shock when you see all of the low body fat athletes lingering about. The upper body mass is not needed for runners or cyclists as that is simply excess weight they have to carry up the hills as the "power to weight ratio" is a key element. Through genetics and training, one is limited on how much they can increase their power - so lowering the weight without losing the power is the result in getting such low body fat (and low upper body muscle balance) to achieve that.
Depending on the marathon, prize money for 1st place can range from $1500 to $100,000+. Even those who are not "in the money" - or elite enough to compete with the best - have the similar low body fat until you get down into the "slow pokes" and folks doing an event for a cause, or to raise money, or just to cross it off their bucket list. You won't find the same low body fat in the latter group.
The "Kenyans"...
Again - shocking to see for those not acquainted with endurance athletes.
Tour de France winners are shocking to see as well (again have to be light to win by going up the Alps with their best or ideal competitive power to weight ratio)...
Most of these elite cyclists and runners train to peak for certain events. Their body fat percentage is not as low all year long - usually centered around the event or events that they have peaked for in any given season.
You would all be equally shocked at the best - and highest paid - prima ballerinas at all of the great ballet companies throughout the world.
Here is what many consider the best in the world. She weighs in at 99 pounds. Why are the prima ballerinas so light, with low body fat percentage? They have to be lifted by the male dancers.
Getting off topic here and I am not advocating endurance athletics. I was just trying to point out that running can (as well as other forms of cardio such as cycling) - depending on how much of it one does, and what other training they do or don't do - end up in a very low body fat percentage for females and males alike. The lower muscle mass in the upper body is specific to only certain sports.
I had to athletic clients (both female) who suffered from ED based on their sports. One was a gymnast and the other swimmer.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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SingingSingleTracker wrote: »I'm actually quite surprised at my reaction to some of those physiques, clearly they must be fit but a number looked unpleasantly underweight to me. I find it interesting how we all have different desired body aesthetics..I'm clearly no elite athlete and I've never aspired to run...perhaps that's a good thing...I must think a bit on my reaction though ...I actually found some of the shots unpleasant...I had a similar reaction as I do to images of emaciated underage catwalk models ...hmmm...
Something for me to explore further
Your reaction is totally understood. If you show up at a running marathon, or a huge endurance bike race, or triathlon as a spectator or participant - one's initial reaction could certainly be one of shock when you see all of the low body fat athletes lingering about. The upper body mass is not needed for runners or cyclists as that is simply excess weight they have to carry up the hills as the "power to weight ratio" is a key element. Through genetics and training, one is limited on how much they can increase their power - so lowering the weight without losing the power is the result in getting such low body fat (and low upper body muscle balance) to achieve that.
Depending on the marathon, prize money for 1st place can range from $1500 to $100,000+. Even those who are not "in the money" - or elite enough to compete with the best - have the similar low body fat until you get down into the "slow pokes" and folks doing an event for a cause, or to raise money, or just to cross it off their bucket list. You won't find the same low body fat in the latter group.
The "Kenyans"...
Again - shocking to see for those not acquainted with endurance athletes.
Tour de France winners are shocking to see as well (again have to be light to win by going up the Alps with their best or ideal competitive power to weight ratio)...
Most of these elite cyclists and runners train to peak for certain events. Their body fat percentage is not as low all year long - usually centered around the event or events that they have peaked for in any given season.
You would all be equally shocked at the best - and highest paid - prima ballerinas at all of the great ballet companies throughout the world.
Here is what many consider the best in the world. She weighs in at 99 pounds. Why are the prima ballerinas so light, with low body fat percentage? They have to be lifted by the male dancers.
Getting off topic here and I am not advocating endurance athletics. I was just trying to point out that running can (as well as other forms of cardio such as cycling) - depending on how much of it one does, and what other training they do or don't do - end up in a very low body fat percentage for females and males alike. The lower muscle mass in the upper body is specific to only certain sports.
I wonder if some are just more used to the look of the bodybuilders. When Bodybuilding first became more popular a lot of people had very adverse reactions to how they looked and many still do. On stage they are probably even lower in body fat percentage than those you have presented.0 -
Let me just interject by saying that many athletes who depend on low body weight for events or sport (including dance) have ED issues. Especially amongst dancers, jockey riders, and long distance athletes. It's a issue not talked about much because the assumption is that they are lean because they are athletic.
I had to athletic clients (both female) who suffered from ED based on their sports. One was a gymnast and the other swimmer.
Totally understood. I have read about ED's when it comes to some gymnasts and some ballet dancers. Not surprising it would be in jockey riders as well considering the huge amount of money involved in that professsional sport, although I wouldn't call that profession an "endurance sport". ;-)
Performance on the road/trail is key for long distance runners and cyclists, so I think it might be less rare to find eating disorders in those groups - at least among the pros and top ranked amateurs who wouldn't get paid or make it to the podium if they were not performing well in their respective endurance sport discipline. Fueling is key for all of the training required as well as going into the event. Grand Tour cyclists burn about 5000 - 7000 calories a day on the bike. If anything, they have to shovel in the proper food to fuel their race - day, after day. And the training requires a lot of fuel to feed the furnace. More on that here.
Marathon runners don't quite hit that high of a number as their race is over and done with for the winners in a shorter amount of time and they burn more in the neighborhood of 2500-2800 calories for a race. It's not quite as difficult to fuel and eat for that kind of calorie burn as it is for the grand tour cyclists who have to ride 20 days in a row burning 5-7K per day. However, the training to build and peak for a running event such as a marathon burns a lot of fuel and requires the athlete to stoke the furnace.
I did a 2 1/4 hour bike race today and with the pre-race warm up, the actual race, and the post-race cool down I burned about 2900 calories (give or take a few hundred based on the accuracy of my power meter/HR strap/App). I feel like I have been shoveling in the calories all day long, but even after eating 2368 calories thus far today, I'm still -520 net on the day going into tonight's dinner (shrimp, wine, bread, spinach salad, brussels sprouts). By the end of the evening, I'm sure I will feel a bit of "eating fatigue" which is common for me on race day. A typical training week for me this week at this point in preparing for the riding season had me on the bike for 12:30 hours, plus 2 hours of weights, some stretching, and yoga. Pros are pounding out 20+ hours per week this time of year. That requires a lot of fuel and a lot of calories are burned.
Circling back to running, if one is training for endurance events - there are a lot of 60 minute, 90 minute, 120 minute, and longer weekend runs in the three hour duration range in a week. Again, it requires a lot of fuel. Whether we say the body morphs itself into the proper physique for one's endurance sport discipline or not, an athlete usually knows right away when the nutrition is off as we can't make our numbers (watts, cadence, distance/time, etc.). Matt Fitzgerald's book called "Racing Weight" talks a lot about all of that, the fuel required, how a runner or cyclists body fat percentage ends up being what it is and is pretty eye opening.
Again, that's not to say that eating disorders don't exist in endurance sports. I just assume that those who suffer from such disorders are not performing very well at all.0 -
Are you suggesting that people eat at maintenance, do two - three hours of cardio, and not eat back their burned calories, could not lose weight?0
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Don't drink before bed. Fat is the primary fuel at rest, but if you have alcohol in your system, then until it's metabolized (alcohol can't be stored in the body), all other energy sources are nixed.If I'm still at a calorie deficit, how does alcohol play into this? Or does it still come down to calories in vs out, regardless if it's wine, or grilled chicken?? (Sorry if this has been asked before!) I just don't want to unknowingly hinder my efforts if I happen to have 2 glasses of wine or cocktails. (But still creating a calorie deficit)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you for the info. I've always wondered how alcohol effects the metabolism in regards to weight loss. (Or maintaining when I'm at that point)0 -
Commander_Keen wrote: »Are you suggesting that people eat at maintenance, do two - three hours of cardio, and not eat back their burned calories, could not lose weight?
"Maintenance" by definition means the amount necessary to maintain one's weight, so yes, someone eating at maintenance will not lose weight.
If a person's TDEE was, say, 2000 kcal before exercise (what you are calling "maintenance") and then they exercise for two hours and burn, say 750 kcal, then, their TDEE will have increased to 2750. If they eat 2000, they will lose weight. If they eat 2750, they will not lose weight, because their "maintenance" amount will now be 2750.
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AdorkableRegal wrote: »Okay, then if Cardio isn't for fat burning what exercise do you recommend?
The only thing that burns fat is your own body when it has a calorie deficit. Cardio helps one achieve a deficit (if you aren't eating enough calories to balance that).1 -
Don't drink before bed. Fat is the primary fuel at rest, but if you have alcohol in your system, then until it's metabolized (alcohol can't be stored in the body), all other energy sources are nixed.If I'm still at a calorie deficit, how does alcohol play into this? Or does it still come down to calories in vs out, regardless if it's wine, or grilled chicken?? (Sorry if this has been asked before!) I just don't want to unknowingly hinder my efforts if I happen to have 2 glasses of wine or cocktails. (But still creating a calorie deficit)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you for the info. I've always wondered how alcohol effects the metabolism in regards to weight loss. (Or maintaining when I'm at that point)
Here's a good article telling you more than you ever wanted to know about alcohol and how it effects weight loss: http://www.leangains.com/2010/07/truth-about-alcohol-fat-loss-and-muscle.html0 -
alismommy1992 wrote: »I swear to god some of you people are so rude..just because you do your thing to get muscular dont mean i cant do my own thing 1.i never starved myself like some *kitten* said 2.i wasnt at a muscular 12% .3..i wasnt an elite marathon runner i have never ran a marathon.i started out at 210 lbs went down to 138 i ofcourse used portion control drank lots of water and ate lots of veggys and fruit i ran everyday i was even being hired to do a commercial for golds gym but i didnt because i didnt lose the weight at the gym i did it at my local park so before u guys talk trash and act like you knw it all have some respect.i have nothing against weight lifters as one of my best friends loves it
People can get lean doing anything. I suspect that many of the women that lift never see body fat levels as low as you reached. But in an attempt to assume that what they do works better than what you do, the obvious choice is to question someone they don't know. But don't feel singled out, it happens with performance metrics, diets, and just about anything else here.
I've known a number of lifters and all around workout types that thought they had a lot more muscle than they really did, and found out just how different it looked the first time they leaned way out.
And overall, in the context of this thread, no exercise alone without deficit results in long term fat loss. But cardio can increase the deficit much quicker than most other stuff can, and if a person chooses to use exercise to create or increase the deficit, cardio can be a useful tool beyond the fitness improvements.0 -
Well there is always targeted RF energy...
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Lol, if they are eating maintenance AFTER their 2-3 hour cardio, then no they won't lose weight. That's an energy balance.Commander_Keen wrote: »Are you suggesting that people eat at maintenance, do two - three hours of cardio, and not eat back their burned calories, could not lose weight?
If they are doing 2-3 hours of cardio and not eating back exercise calories, then they are in a calorie deficit. Which of course is needed to lose weight. You CAN'T eat maintenance then do cardio and not eat back calories and still call it maintenance.
What the heck are you really asking?
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12% is unlikely for a female who just exercises to exercise. I've trained female clients trying to get to 15% body fat and it's a lot of hardcore training. Here's the numbers: 138lbs and 12% body fat would leave you at a lean body weight of 121lbs. Now if you're 121lbs of lean mass for a female and at 12% body fat, you'd be pretty defined and muscular. Many professional female bodybuilders are at the 120-130 lean body mass category. So can you see why the numbers seem skewed here?alismommy1992 wrote: »I swear to god some of you people are so rude..just because you do your thing to get muscular dont mean i cant do my own thing 1.i never starved myself like some *kitten* said 2.i wasnt at a muscular 12% .3..i wasnt an elite marathon runner i have never ran a marathon.i started out at 210 lbs went down to 138 i ofcourse used portion control drank lots of water and ate lots of veggys and fruit i ran everyday i was even being hired to do a commercial for golds gym but i didnt because i didnt lose the weight at the gym i did it at my local park so before u guys talk trash and act like you knw it all have some respect.i have nothing against weight lifters as one of my best friends loves it
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Lol, if they are eating maintenance AFTER their 2-3 hour cardio, then no they won't lose weight. That's an energy balance.Commander_Keen wrote: »Are you suggesting that people eat at maintenance, do two - three hours of cardio, and not eat back their burned calories, could not lose weight?
If they are doing 2-3 hours of cardio and not eating back exercise calories, then they are in a calorie deficit. Which of course is needed to lose weight. You CAN'T eat maintenance then do cardio and not eat back calories and still call it maintenance.
What the heck are you really asking?
That's semantics and being unnecessarily obtuse. It was clear as day he was asking that if people who eat at maintenance all week and then add cardio on top of that will lose weight.
You can go on about definitions but it doesn't detract from the posters original intent which you have ignored and belittled with your response. As an MFP Moderator that is pretty poor.....0 -
That's semantics and being unnecessarily obtuse. It was clear as day he was asking that if people who eat at maintenance all week and then add cardio on top of that will lose weight.
You can go on about definitions but it doesn't detract from the posters original intent which you have ignored and belittled with your response. As an MFP Moderator that is pretty poor.....
Agreed. I thought the question was pretty clear.
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