Cardio isn't for "fat burning".
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The question was not clear at all as maintenance means you are eating the amount of calories you need to maintain your weight.
If you do cardio and don't eat those calories back you are in fact eating at a deficit, no longer at maintenance.
I found Commander_Keen's question far more obtuse than Ninerbuff's reply.
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exercise doesn't directly burn off excess fat tissue the way people think it does.
This isn't strictly true - long-duration endurance exercise (hillwalking, distance running, mountaineering...) will burn fat at the time. But if you don't maintain a calorie deficit, you'll put that fat right back on. I've gained weight on Alpine mountaineering holidays, because despite doing ten-hour climbing days I was eating more than I'd burned once I got back down to the valley. Damn that tasty French food
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Either way, I'm not sure why this thread exists. Was anyone actually saying that eating at maintenance would cause fat loss just because cardio was performed? Was this a response to another thread?0
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The amount of body fat burned to fuel any bout of exercise is insignificant - so falling for the whole "fat burning" exercise marketing spiel isn't a good idea as suggested by the OP.
However the amount of calories burned during exercise can be sizeable (let's say I burn roughly 700 calories for one hour of running.) This can contribute to your total calorie deficit which is very useful in ultimately losing body fat.
However, exercise is usually less efficient than diet when it comes to creating a calorie deficit. In the example above I have to run for 60 minutes to achieve that 700 calorie benefit whereas it may take me mere minutes to consume a milkshake which is equivalent to the same amount of calories. That is why focusing on your diet is of primary concern to the average individual with exercise helping to support diet in getting to a calorie deficit rather than being the primary or the only method.
I'm here all week.
Try the veal.0 -
The amount of body fat burned to fuel any bout of exercise is insignificant - so falling for the whole "fat burning" exercise marketing spiel isn't a good idea as suggested by the OP.
However the amount of calories burned during exercise can be sizeable (let's say I burn roughly 700 calories for one hour of running.) This can contribute to your total calorie deficit which is very useful in ultimately losing body fat.
However, exercise is usually less efficient than diet when it comes to creating a calorie deficit. In the example above I have to run for 60 minutes to achieve that 700 calorie benefit whereas it may take me mere minutes to consume a milkshake which is equivalent to the same amount of calories. That is why focusing on your diet is of primary concern to the average individual with exercise helping to support diet in getting to a calorie deficit rather than being the primary or the only method.
Yes, focusing on one's diet (or CICO) is the key. If one has the time, or makes the time to devote 10-14 hours per week doing running, walking, cycling, hiking, etc... the -CO portion of the equation means the body is going to burn whatever it can get its greedy hands on to fuel itself....including burning excess body fat if there is some available.
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Either way, I'm not sure why this thread exists. Was anyone actually saying that eating at maintenance would cause fat loss just because cardio was performed? Was this a response to another thread?
I can't comment on if it was on another thread, there are a lot of things out there, but there is a common misconception about what causes weight/fat loss on both the exercise and diet front. Of course, we want people to understand exercise is one of the best things you can do for your body and your health but it's not magic for fat loss; you still need to make sure your diet supports a deficit.0 -
Obtuse? Explain how one eats maintenance, while doing cardio (meaning no calorie deficit) will lose weight?
Lol, if they are eating maintenance AFTER their 2-3 hour cardio, then no they won't lose weight. That's an energy balance.Commander_Keen wrote: »Are you suggesting that people eat at maintenance, do two - three hours of cardio, and not eat back their burned calories, could not lose weight?
If they are doing 2-3 hours of cardio and not eating back exercise calories, then they are in a calorie deficit. Which of course is needed to lose weight. You CAN'T eat maintenance then do cardio and not eat back calories and still call it maintenance.
What the heck are you really asking?
That's semantics and being unnecessarily obtuse. It was clear as day he was asking that if people who eat at maintenance all week and then add cardio on top of that will lose weight.
You can go on about definitions but it doesn't detract from the posters original intent which you have ignored and belittled with your response. As an MFP Moderator that is pretty poor.....
To eat maintenance, one eats as much as they burn. When the deficit is 0, then weight loss occurs? I don't think you understand it either.
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Clear as mud.That's semantics and being unnecessarily obtuse. It was clear as day he was asking that if people who eat at maintenance all week and then add cardio on top of that will lose weight.
You can go on about definitions but it doesn't detract from the posters original intent which you have ignored and belittled with your response. As an MFP Moderator that is pretty poor.....
Agreed. I thought the question was pretty clear.
Eat maintenance, no weight loss no weight gain.
Eat deficit, weight loss occurs.
It's not any simpler than that.
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There is fat oxidation going on all the time. To what extent will depend on physical activity. The less someone does, the higher the percentage of body fat for fuel is utilized.exercise doesn't directly burn off excess fat tissue the way people think it does.
This isn't strictly true - long-duration endurance exercise (hillwalking, distance running, mountaineering...) will burn fat at the time. But if you don't maintain a calorie deficit, you'll put that fat right back on. I've gained weight on Alpine mountaineering holidays, because despite doing ten-hour climbing days I was eating more than I'd burned once I got back down to the valley. Damn that tasty French food
The misconception that the fitness world is claiming is that doing cardio is what's needed to burn fat stores off and lose body weight. And that's just not true. As stated in the OP, without a calorie deficit (and you've agreed), fat loss isn't going to happen.
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The thread exists to educate people who have been told to that they can't burn fat without cardio and that cardio is a better exercise to burn fat. It's basically not true.Either way, I'm not sure why this thread exists. Was anyone actually saying that eating at maintenance would cause fat loss just because cardio was performed? Was this a response to another thread?
There are many many people who join a gym and do tons of cardio (and weight lifting) with no results. Why? Because they're still not in calorie deficit (or surplus if trying to gain weight).
I get asked this question about cardio ALL the time by new people.
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The thread exists to educate people who have been told to that they can't burn fat without cardio and that cardio is a better exercise to burn fat. It's basically not true.Either way, I'm not sure why this thread exists. Was anyone actually saying that eating at maintenance would cause fat loss just because cardio was performed? Was this a response to another thread?
There are many many people who join a gym and do tons of cardio (and weight lifting) with no results. Why? Because they're still not in calorie deficit (or surplus if trying to gain weight).
I get asked this question about cardio ALL the time by new people.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Also
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10348363/burning-fat#latest0 -
Protranser wrote: »Isn't there some knowledge floating around these forums that describes a maximum amount of fat that the oxidized per day?
If there is a maximum amount of fat that can be oxidized per day, and, one exceeds the oxidation maximum through calorie deficit, what happens when you exceed the maximum oxidation limit? Where does the energy come from if not fat?
Estimation is the maximum fat oxidation per day is 31 calories per pound of body fat per day.
Unfortunately, that number is based on standard physiology (a weight lifter with above average lean mass probably has a higher limit) and up to moderate amounts of exercise - bouts of high intensity exercise might allow exceeding this limit, particularly in an individual with the physiological adaptations that would allow such bouts to occur. For the most part, 31 kCal/pound body fat/day represents a deficit limit for people mainly losing via dietary calorie cutting versus neat, and not someone looking to lose weight via excess exercise.0 -
Thanks for this. I remember covering this back in college (a long time ago).Protranser wrote: »Isn't there some knowledge floating around these forums that describes a maximum amount of fat that the oxidized per day?
If there is a maximum amount of fat that can be oxidized per day, and, one exceeds the oxidation maximum through calorie deficit, what happens when you exceed the maximum oxidation limit? Where does the energy come from if not fat?
Estimation is the maximum fat oxidation per day is 31 calories per pound of body fat per day.
Unfortunately, that number is based on standard physiology (a weight lifter with above average lean mass probably has a higher limit) and up to moderate amounts of exercise - bouts of high intensity exercise might allow exceeding this limit, particularly in an individual with the physiological adaptations that would allow such bouts to occur. For the most part, 31 kCal/pound body fat/day represents a deficit limit for people mainly losing via dietary calorie cutting versus neat, and not someone looking to lose weight via excess exercise.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I have a question, and I hope it's not too dumb. First, I understand about the calorie deficit. But what about cases where you are indeed, in a calorie deficit for the day -- however the food eaten was high sodium (like salted shelled pistachios) and drinking water or ice green tea (no sugar) all day. I have noticed on the days where I eat to much salted foods but still keep a calorie deficit, I gain weight at times. Water and green tea have zero calories but I believe I am carrying the weight of the fluids. I watch every calorie that goes into me. I am working hard (through exercise and proper eating and maintaining a calorie deficit) to lose weight and on average lose about 1/4 to 1/2 lb. about every other day. But when my sodium intake is high, I do not lose weight even with a deficit and sometimes gain weight instead.0
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Thanks for this. I remember covering this back in college (a long time ago).Protranser wrote: »Isn't there some knowledge floating around these forums that describes a maximum amount of fat that the oxidized per day?
If there is a maximum amount of fat that can be oxidized per day, and, one exceeds the oxidation maximum through calorie deficit, what happens when you exceed the maximum oxidation limit? Where does the energy come from if not fat?
Estimation is the maximum fat oxidation per day is 31 calories per pound of body fat per day.
Unfortunately, that number is based on standard physiology (a weight lifter with above average lean mass probably has a higher limit) and up to moderate amounts of exercise - bouts of high intensity exercise might allow exceeding this limit, particularly in an individual with the physiological adaptations that would allow such bouts to occur. For the most part, 31 kCal/pound body fat/day represents a deficit limit for people mainly losing via dietary calorie cutting versus neat, and not someone looking to lose weight via excess exercise.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I have read this before, but this is hard for me to believe or understand.
Let's run some real numbers.
Let's take a 5'4" lightly active, 30-year old woman of 160 pounds and 35% body fat. This gives her 56 pounds of body fat (160 * 0.35 = 56). Her BMR is on the order of 1430 and her TDEE is on the order of 1970.
31 kcal per pound of body fat would be 1736 kcal (31*56 = 1736).
Something tells me that real world maximum fat oxidation is FAR less than 31 kcal per pound.
(Edited with slightly different numbers.)
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chrismansa wrote: »I have a question, and I hope it's not too dumb. First, I understand about the calorie deficit. But what about cases where you are indeed, in a calorie deficit for the day -- however the food eaten was high sodium (like salted shelled pistachios) and drinking water or ice green tea (no sugar) all day. I have noticed on the days where I eat to much salted foods but still keep a calorie deficit, I gain weight at times. Water and green tea have zero calories but I believe I am carrying the weight of the fluids. I watch every calorie that goes into me. I am working hard (through exercise and proper eating and maintaining a calorie deficit) to lose weight and on average lose about 1/4 to 1/2 lb. about every other day. But when my sodium intake is high, I do not lose weight even with a deficit and sometimes gain weight instead.
It's the water weight from the sodium in the nuts0 -
It's the water weight from the sodium in the nuts [/quote]
But then that means I can gain weight even though I have a calorie deficit, right?0 -
chrismansa wrote: »It's the water weight from the sodium in the nuts
But then that means I can gain weight even though I have a calorie deficit, right? [/quote]
Water weight is different than fat weight.0 -
OK I understand now. Thank you. I hope that means that the water weight is temporary.0
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chrismansa wrote: »OK I understand now. Thank you. I hope that means that the water weight is temporary.
Eventually it has to be released. This leads to what some call the woosh - instances where weight has not changed for a long time, sometimes weeks, and suddenly it releases. Some people get confused by the fact that it seems like it tends to happen after days of high calorie intake. Part of that is just people being imperfect at remembering all the times the scale weight did go down during low calorie days, and part of it may be that eating counters hormones that tend to favor water retention.0
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