Taking a stand against my trainers diet
Replies
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raven56706 wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »
I am confused.. did you say you were on meds for anxiety, that caused you weight gain?
If so, then would it not make sense to talk to your doctor to get off of it or that would just mean a larger calorie deficit by exercising?
The medicine likely increased his appetite, causing him to overeat and put on the pounds. It's very common with those types of drugs; however, if he tracks his food and stays within a calorie deficit, he will still be able to lose weight, even on the drug. If it's otherwise improving his quality of life, it's probably in his best interest to keep taking it and just keep track of the foods that he eats.
That part I get.
He gained weight, he knows why he gained weight. so instead of talking to the doctor about switching drugs, he decides to change his diet.
For me, for me, If I was gaining weight, and it was a concern, I would talk to my doctor 1st, and increase my cardio
trust me i thought of it but i just cant go cold turkey. I do want to come off the pill but eventually. im not ready yet to do so but thats for other reasons.
In the meantime, i want to reverse the "effects" of the diet and get to a goal. Being on this semi paleo diet just made me angry and upset about stuff. didnt help with trying to eat right and then while in the middle of it even restrict more things.
Then it sounds like semi-paleo is not for you. There are plenty of other ways to create a calorie deficit.0 -
melissa6771 wrote: »We don't convert fat to muscle.
No, but you most certainly can lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
not really. maybe in newbie gains, but not long term.
they require totally different caloric intakes. to build muscle, you have to be in a surplus. To lose weight, you have to be in a deficit. This is why weight lifters go through ' bulk and cut' cycles.0 -
If you like how your medication treats your anxiety but the side effects are disruptive to your life, PLEASE talk to your doctor. That's their job. One of the very first anti-anxiety medications I took worked, but I got terrible migraines and mood swings if I didn't take it at the exact same time every day. It took a few different medications at different dosages, but I finally found one that works and doesn't have bad side effects.
ETA: Personal trainers are not licensed psychologists or psychiatrists. They can not make promises about "curing" anxiety or other mental health conditions, and definitely should not be trying to take you off of prescribed medication.0 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »melissa6771 wrote: »We don't convert fat to muscle.
No, but you most certainly can lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
not really. maybe in newbie gains, but not long term.
they require totally different caloric intakes. to build muscle, you have to be in a surplus. To lose weight, you have to be in a deficit. This is why weight lifters go through ' bulk and cut' cycles.
Yes you can! Where did you get the info that you can't from? It's wrong.
You know when people's weight stays the same but they lose lots of inches? That's why. Because they lost fat weight and gained muscle weight. So their size changed but their weight didn't. A pound of muscle is much more compact than a pound of fat.
You might not be able to gain the amounts of muscle a professional weight lifter would, very few people can, but how many people here are aiming for that? That's a whole different ball game. You are not comparing apples to apples.
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melissa6771 wrote: »melissa6771 wrote: »We don't convert fat to muscle.
No, but you most certainly can lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
not really.
Yes, you absolutely can. I've studied it. I've done it. I used the body for life thing for a long time and did it. I used to get my body fat done, in the water, every twelve weeks. It takes a lot longer to build muscle than to lose fat, but it absolutely can happen at the same time. That does not mean one becomes the other, just that both things happen simultaneously.
If you think you can't, you are not knowledgable in this.
At a calorie deficit it generally cannot, at least not in any significant manner. A little muscle can be put on for someone who have never trained with weights before maybe 1 or 2 pounds. If a person used to train and have a lot of muscle, they can build some for a while in a deficit as well, but again not a huge amount, not fast, and not for an extended period of time. If a person has a lot of fat to use, again they are an exception, but again only a small amount and only for a limited amount of time.
What many people confuse for muscle gain is water retention in muscles that happens when weight training. It happens to help in repair of the muscle tissue and to protect it. However, it is not actual muscle gain. The other thing that is often confused for muscle gain is the muscle that is already there from carrying around that extra fat now starting to become visible because it is no longer covered up.
For muscle gain a person needs to get out of a calorie deficit. They either need to eat at maintenance and do a slow re-comp, or eat at a small surplus and do a bulk followed by a cut. Building muscle and losing substantial amounts of fat is not something that generally happens.0 -
If he's not taking your injuries into consideration then he's not the right trainer. But unless he placed a bar/weights across your shoulders for squats, I don't see how you're hurting your neck unless you have bad form - which is what you'll learn from a trainer. Squats are incredible for a range of reasons but again without being there I have no idea if he was making you something dangerous for your neck.
Anyways, you can of course have carbs - there's no doubt about that. But the reason why weight lifting programmes are heavy on the protein (not necessarily paleo which people say these days) is because it helps repair muscles / fuels recovery and is actually amazing for satiety. Considering he, as you say, focuses on weight lifting it's perhaps unsurprising that he put you on a nutrition plan that seems a lot more heavier on the protein side.
However, above all, if he isn't listening to your needs then you need to change your trainer.
As for abs, you need to work on losing body fat to see those muscles which we all have underneath!0 -
raven56706 wrote: »lets get some background out of the way:
I had lost 50 lbs just following the rules of myfitnesspal. Through the guidelines, i got to my goal weight and that was it. Fast forward to last year, i began taking Citalophram(generic version of celexa) and i began to gain weight. I gained enough to move me up a pant size and it was depressing to go through while the medicine was helping me big time on the anxiety.
So desperate times called for desperate measures. I called up a trainer who was also a nutrionist. He is a professional bodybuilder and trained several people to reach their weights for competition. So i figured what the heck. He does fat measurements and it says 24.7% and gets copies of my blood work. His main goal was to get me off my pills and back to just being normal without medicine. I also told him i had injuries with my neck and elbow. He would then take everything and build me a customized workout. I also told him i wanted the holy grail of finally seeing abs.
So i begin and he gives me my workout and it has workouts that werent good for my neck. Which made me alittle upset being he was supposed to make it catered to my injuries. As in he was supposed to be detailed. And the diet was more on the paleo side. Limited on the carbs i eat and it has to be ezekiel bread only for bread products. No carrots or corn. I was on it for 4 weeks and only lost 1 lb being strict on it. Then my trainer says i cant have eggs from a deli and just to eat something else. Frustration begins. Also, there is no logging of foods and im sure im eating more than a calorie deficit so that begins to worry me. Not to mention, he didnt have me workout enough to burn the fat. Reach my frustration peak.
So now i decided to eat back to the way i used to while incorporating some things i learned. I prepare my meals and eat alittle more carbs. But im back to logging everything in here. Make sure i measure it all and jot it all down.
So what im asking is, you can still eat some carbs just as long as its under the calorie deficit to see abs correct?
Wait...what???
Clearly this guy doesn't know what he's talking about on so many, MANY levels.0 -
If he's not taking your injuries into consideration then he's not the right trainer. But unless he placed a bar/weights across your shoulders for squats, I don't see how you're hurting your neck unless you have bad form - which is what you'll learn from a trainer. Squats are incredible for a range of reasons but again without being there I have no idea if he was making you something dangerous for your neck.
Anyways, you can of course have carbs - there's no doubt about that. But the reason why weight lifting programmes are heavy on the protein (not necessarily paleo which people say these days) is because it helps repair muscles / fuels recovery and is actually amazing for satiety. Considering he, as you say, focuses on weight lifting it's perhaps unsurprising that he put you on a nutrition plan that seems a lot more heavier on the protein side.
However, above all, if he isn't listening to your needs then you need to change your trainer.
As for abs, you need to work on losing body fat to see those muscles which we all have underneath!
true without a doubt. Thats why i have been lurking alittle and asking questions here and there(if you see my history) because i dont want to hurt myself while trying to get to a goal. I want to meet it in a happy way and not a struggling sad way. I know I need to get hard work in it and all that. Understandable. But i cant see how 100% multigrain bread is bad for you.
also inregards to the squats, my doctor said it isnt good to strain your neck with squats. I have a buldging disk and a herniation. I will take my doctors word for it. I can still press with no issues.0 -
Char231023 wrote: »OP there are anxiety drugs out there that won't stimulate your appetite talk to your Dr. Also I don't know of any diet or exercise program that will cure you of your anxiety. Exercise is always good for you unless it will injure you but it won't make your need for the meds go away.
Edited
I was going to say this. It may be wise to try a different medication to see how the side effects are. I myself tried 3 different kinds until I was comfortable with my current one.
Above all else, never, ever, go cold turkey off your meds.0 -
Regarding the abs, everyone is different. I couldn't see my abs at 24%. I started seeing them and getting a beach body around 15%. Eat at the right levels and when the fat burns off, then you will see more definition.0
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Char231023 wrote: »OP there are anxiety drugs out there that won't stimulate your appetite talk to your Dr. Also I don't know of any diet or exercise program that will cure you of your anxiety. Exercise is always good for you unless it will injure you but it won't make your need for the meds go away.
Edited
I was going to say this. It may be wise to try a different medication to see how the side effects are. I myself tried 3 different kinds until I was comfortable with my current one.
Above all else, never, ever, go cold turkey off your meds.
Yup, there was a good story that included why discontinuing meds cold turkey is a bad idea on Moth over the weekend. http://themoth.org/posts/storytellers/ben-lillie
The very first doctor he saw for his anxiety told him to exercise.0 -
melissa6771 wrote: »melissa6771 wrote: »We don't convert fat to muscle.
No, but you most certainly can lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
not really.
Yes, you absolutely can. I've studied it. I've done it. I used the body for life thing for a long time and did it. I used to get my body fat done, in the water, every twelve weeks. It takes a lot longer to build muscle than to lose fat, but it absolutely can happen at the same time. That does not mean one becomes the other, just that both things happen simultaneously.
If you think you can't, you are not knowledgable in this.
well since you have done it and studied it, you must be right.0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »melissa6771 wrote: »We don't convert fat to muscle.
No, but you most certainly can lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
not really.
Isn't that what happens during a recomp?
I know that isn't the case with the OP, who is eating in a deficit, but if you're eating at maintenance and doing a progressive lifting program, isn't it possible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time?
Or am I wrong about how recomp works?
Yes and no. No, you don't build muscle and lose fat at the same time. But, it can seem that way because both happen although you're not changing your training or diet to switch between bulking and cutting.
For a recomp, you get to the weight you want to stay. Then, you eat a very slight surplus and train hard.
If you're doing it right, you alternate gaining muscle and fat (total weight) until you're at a slight deficit and then losing fat (total weight) until you're back in a surplus again. Calorie intake doesn't change. The loses and gains are well within normal scale variation so you don't see much of anything weight-wise, but should see a long-term trend of %BF slowly decreasing. The net result (over months) should be a loss of fat and a gain of muscle, but it's not at the same time.0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »melissa6771 wrote: »We don't convert fat to muscle.
No, but you most certainly can lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
not really.
Isn't that what happens during a recomp?
I know that isn't the case with the OP, who is eating in a deficit, but if you're eating at maintenance and doing a progressive lifting program, isn't it possible to lose fat and build muscle at the same time?
Or am I wrong about how recomp works?
Yes and no. No, you don't build muscle and lose fat at the same time. But, it can seem that way because both happen although you're not changing your training or diet to switch between bulking and cutting.
For a recomp, you get to the weight you want to stay. Then, you eat a very slight surplus and train hard.
If you're doing it right, you alternate gaining muscle and fat (total weight) until you're at a slight deficit and then losing fat (total weight) until you're back in a surplus again. Calorie intake doesn't change. The loses and gains are well within normal scale variation so you don't see much of anything weight-wise, but should see a long-term trend of %BF slowly decreasing. The net result (over months) should be a loss of fat and a gain of muscle, but it's not at the same time.
Thank you for answering my question.0 -
I went through this exact thing a few years ago. I was gaining weight and experiencing night sweats on celexa. My trainer had me on a very low calorie diet, which was not working and I was feeling dizzy and faint daily. I had my doctor switch me to Lexapro (which did AMAZING things for my anxiety and it was once daily) and ditched the trainer.0
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melissa6771 wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »melissa6771 wrote: »We don't convert fat to muscle.
No, but you most certainly can lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
not really. maybe in newbie gains, but not long term.
they require totally different caloric intakes. to build muscle, you have to be in a surplus. To lose weight, you have to be in a deficit. This is why weight lifters go through ' bulk and cut' cycles.
Yes you can! Where did you get the info that you can't from? It's wrong.
physics
You gain mass in a surplus, you lose mass in a deficit. If you're lifting heavy and eating in a surplus you'll gain muscle and some fat. If you're in a deficit and lifting heavy, you'll lose a less muscle and more fat. But you lose or gain some of both in either case. You don't gain some of one and lose some of the other simultaneously.
It can seem that way when you are close to or at goal weight and fluctuating up and down slightly so you end up going above and below maintenance as you train over time, but that's really hard to do and takes long time to see any difference. Most people will get better results by focusing on one, then the other.0 -
Your description of the trainer is like a step-by-step instruction for how to build the worlds worst personal trainer. A narcissistic dilettante.0
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You can absolutely make body composition improvements while eating at maintenance provided that you are training intelligently and making progress in the gym.
The claim that you can't is kind of silly in my opinion.
When you eat food, your body doesn't say "hey were in a deficit let's do something different with these nutrients"
It takes the nutrients and partitions them as it needs to.
Anecdotal but I agree with this recent quote from Bret Contreras:
You don't have to be in either a fat loss (cutting) phase or a muscle building (bulking) phase. You can simply eat at a maintenance and gain strength over time utilizing progressive overload. This is sometimes referred to as "recomping," but it's just a logical byproduct of good strength training.
Doing so equates to more muscle, less fat, less overall volume since muscle takes up 20% less space than fat at equal mass, and improved aesthetics, even though scale weight doesn't change.
Many of my clients come to me already looking good. I don't mess with their diets much, assuming their macros are on point. They end up gaining a ton of strength over the upcoming months, and their physiques improve. Many have to buy new clothes since their waist sizes decrease substantially.
Some lucky individuals look incredible whether they're bulked up or dieted down. Personally, I never like the way I look when I bulk up. Ideally, I'd stay lean (for me, around 15% bodyfat) all year round.
Bodybuilders bulk and cut because they get down to single digit (sometimes low single digit) bodyfat percentages, and staying there for too long isn't realistic or ideal for health or building muscle. Naturally lean powerlifters who keep gaining strength often need to move up in weight classes over time too. But this doesn't apply to most of us mortals who don't easily pack on slabs of muscle or get shredded overnight.
Bulking and cutting is great if you enjoy the contrast in lifestyle and look. Obviously most skinny people desire to bulk and most obese people desire to cut. But assuming you're at a healthy bodyweight, it's also perfectly fine to keep your caloric intake fairly consistent and just make minor tweaks over the course of the year and focus on gaining strength at a relatively stable bodyweight.
For people who get depressed or lose self-confidence when they bulk, recomping is a better alternative. I can think of numerous popular fitness models who choose not to bulk and cut and simply look consistently good year round. You have options!0 -
raven56706 wrote: »lets get some background out of the way:
I had lost 50 lbs just following the rules of myfitnesspal. Through the guidelines, i got to my goal weight and that was it. Fast forward to last year, i began taking Citalophram(generic version of celexa) and i began to gain weight. I gained enough to move me up a pant size and it was depressing to go through while the medicine was helping me big time on the anxiety.
So desperate times called for desperate measures. I called up a trainer who was also a nutrionist. He is a professional bodybuilder and trained several people to reach their weights for competition. So i figured what the heck. He does fat measurements and it says 24.7% and gets copies of my blood work. His main goal was to get me off my pills and back to just being normal without medicine. I also told him i had injuries with my neck and elbow. He would then take everything and build me a customized workout. I also told him i wanted the holy grail of finally seeing abs.
So i begin and he gives me my workout and it has workouts that werent good for my neck. Which made me alittle upset being he was supposed to make it catered to my injuries. As in he was supposed to be detailed. And the diet was more on the paleo side. Limited on the carbs i eat and it has to be ezekiel bread only for bread products. No carrots or corn. I was on it for 4 weeks and only lost 1 lb being strict on it. Then my trainer says i cant have eggs from a deli and just to eat something else. Frustration begins. Also, there is no logging of foods and im sure im eating more than a calorie deficit so that begins to worry me. Not to mention, he didnt have me workout enough to burn the fat. Reach my frustration peak.
So now i decided to eat back to the way i used to while incorporating some things i learned. I prepare my meals and eat alittle more carbs. But im back to logging everything in here. Make sure i measure it all and jot it all down.
So what im asking is, you can still eat some carbs just as long as its under the calorie deficit to see abs correct?
If I understand correct and your TRAINER's goal was to get you off your meds, there is no need to even read the rest, this person is irresponsible and very dangerous.0 -
Wait, was the trainer trying to get you off of your anxiety meds?
Also, someone mentioned this earlier but I want to make sure it doesn't get missed: It might be possible that you can goblet squat without neck problems. Certainly worth a try anyway.0 -
He wants you off celexa? He's not trained to do offer that kind of advice or make recommendations on your behalf for something like that! Sure, exercise helps relive stress, but if it was the cure for anxiety the gyms and crossfit studies would be a LOT more crowded.
Does he actually have a degree in nutrition? Is he an RD (Registered Dietician)?
I vote new trainer. It sounds like he used to working with clientele working towards specific goals and is trying to fit you into the same box (competition prep).0 -
I say everything in moderation. I eat whatever I'm in the mood for as I am unwilling to give up anything for the rest of my life just to weigh less! I have lost 17 lbs thus far and haven't felt deprived. I would also get a new trainer and quick! Good Luck
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melissa6771 wrote: »melissa6771 wrote: »We don't convert fat to muscle.
No, but you most certainly can lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
not really.
Yes, you absolutely can. I've studied it. I've done it. I used the body for life thing for a long time and did it. I used to get my body fat done, in the water, every twelve weeks. It takes a lot longer to build muscle than to lose fat, but it absolutely can happen at the same time. That does not mean one becomes the other, just that both things happen simultaneously.
If you think you can't, you are not knowledgable in this.
You cannot be in a catabolic and anabolic state simultaneously. Even with body recomposition, calories at maintenance, with the goal of losing fat and gaining muscle-it's technically not happening at the SAME time.
In a deficit it's not really happening, except in the case of beginners and especially overweight beginners.0 -
It's trainers like that, that give the profession a bad rep, I'm afraid. They lack the awareness and/or knowledge to work with people with specific requirements.0
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You can absolutely make body composition improvements while eating at maintenance provided that you are training intelligently and making progress in the gym.
The claim that you can't is kind of silly in my opinion.
When you eat food, your body doesn't say "hey were in a deficit let's do something different with these nutrients"
It takes the nutrients and partitions them as it needs to.
Anecdotal but I agree with this recent quote from Bret Contreras:
You don't have to be in either a fat loss (cutting) phase or a muscle building (bulking) phase. You can simply eat at a maintenance and gain strength over time utilizing progressive overload. This is sometimes referred to as "recomping," but it's just a logical byproduct of good strength training.
Doing so equates to more muscle, less fat, less overall volume since muscle takes up 20% less space than fat at equal mass, and improved aesthetics, even though scale weight doesn't change.
Many of my clients come to me already looking good. I don't mess with their diets much, assuming their macros are on point. They end up gaining a ton of strength over the upcoming months, and their physiques improve. Many have to buy new clothes since their waist sizes decrease substantially.
Some lucky individuals look incredible whether they're bulked up or dieted down. Personally, I never like the way I look when I bulk up. Ideally, I'd stay lean (for me, around 15% bodyfat) all year round.
Bodybuilders bulk and cut because they get down to single digit (sometimes low single digit) bodyfat percentages, and staying there for too long isn't realistic or ideal for health or building muscle. Naturally lean powerlifters who keep gaining strength often need to move up in weight classes over time too. But this doesn't apply to most of us mortals who don't easily pack on slabs of muscle or get shredded overnight.
Bulking and cutting is great if you enjoy the contrast in lifestyle and look. Obviously most skinny people desire to bulk and most obese people desire to cut. But assuming you're at a healthy bodyweight, it's also perfectly fine to keep your caloric intake fairly consistent and just make minor tweaks over the course of the year and focus on gaining strength at a relatively stable bodyweight.
For people who get depressed or lose self-confidence when they bulk, recomping is a better alternative. I can think of numerous popular fitness models who choose not to bulk and cut and simply look consistently good year round. You have options!
Best post ever.0 -
Eating paleo might deplete your glycogen stores at first and you lose some water weight. If the paleo lifestyle is for you then go for it. If not then don't. Hey, I got a 4 pack by eating 50-60% carbs, and I'm a woman. Don't be discourage if getting a six pack won't work for you as it's mainly genetics: You might need to get your body fat down so much that it's impossible to maintain it for a longer time. Hey, I even had a rather slim stomach when I was slightly overweight, but I'll never, even now at a BMI of 20 have thin legs. Genetics.0
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Char231023 wrote: »OP there are anxiety drugs out there that won't stimulate your appetite talk to your Dr. Also I don't know of any diet or exercise program that will cure you of your anxiety. Exercise is always good for you unless it will injure you but it won't make your need for the meds go away.
Edited
I was going to say this. It may be wise to try a different medication to see how the side effects are. I myself tried 3 different kinds until I was comfortable with my current one.
Above all else, never, ever, go cold turkey off your meds.
Agree!, Celexa needs to be tapered down and your doctor will give you a taper schedule. You should always talk to your doctor about any issues or concerns with medication.0 -
you can take a look at my diary and see if im doing well. i mean i started on my own yesterday and want to make sure im on the right track.
Also to clear some things up because i didnt provide enough info. So he wanted me to take supplements to help out. Probiotics, vitamins and etc. He believes that the organs in my stomach arent working up to par and maybe thats whats causing the anxiety. I was like ummm ok sounds good. I didnt care because it would have been a win win for me. He wanted for me to get better without the medicine so i can slowly come off of it. He didnt want me to go cold turkey. He just didnt want me to rely on it.
Also it was a 5 meal plan and since i workout in the early morning he had me drinking a bcaa drink during my workout. Mind you he said that was a meal but it was 30g of amino acids and several people didnt call it a meal. I dont know.
hopefully this info helps you out to make a judgement.0 -
Hmm.. sounds very... unscientific to me to be honest. Yes, you can take vitamins, but it's unnecessary if you don't need them. And if you think you have a deficiency then don't take them for a couple of weeks and get yourself tested properly (tests don't show a deficiency if you take vitamins).
Probiotics: in most cases they don't arrive in the gut but are destroyed by your stomach acid. There are a few technologies out there that protect them until they arrive in the small intestines, but those products are expensive and rare. Plus, if a probiotic is protected it might still be that the bacteria are already dead and useless; and you need a lof of them, of many different strands to be of any benefit to you and not just a few in a capsule.
I guess I would really dump this trainer. Go back to your doctor for another medicine, maybe have some tests done if you think you have some problems, and stay here 0 -
Soooo, not judging you. But as a nurse I've seen many patients stop a med cold turkey due to a side effect that could have been taken care of with a discussion with your physician. Your doctor is there to discuss even the "smallest" side effect.
OK off my soap box. I'm glad you are planning to taper down 0
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