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Keto diet

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  • cwolfman13cwolfman13 Posts: 36,703Member Member Posts: 36,703Member Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    snikkins wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    I am curious about the effects of keto diets on cholesterol levels. Any insight or literature welcomed!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12097663 was a keto diet study without weight loss.

    Lower triglycerides (-33%) and a trend to higher HDL (+11.5%; P = 0.066) which is fairly typical of keto diets studies.

    Individual cholesterol responses :-
    F1.medium.gif

    Protein percentage appeared to double. I wonder how much impact that had on HDL. Interesting that total and LDL remained neutral.

    One thing I would find interesting is if they would provide similar nutrition intervention for the control group. Meaning, that they maintain their macronutrients but improved the quality of food. Because with keto, their diet was very high heavy in MUFA and PUFAs.

    Oh and funded by Atkins, lol.

    I hate when studies get clearly biased by the people paying for them. People walk away from it assuming all research is biased and can be dismissed. /rant

    Personally, even if it was funded by atkins but was designed a bit better, I would be ok. And maybe I didn't see it, but if we are going to compare two diets, we should have similar nutritional standards. Having one group follow a very nutrient dense diet vs another with no control on the quality of food is a bit battling and makes me wonder how this would compare if it looked at keto vs vegan or even Mediterranean.

    Exactly...I mean, from everything I've read and researched, pretty much anything you do to improve your diet and move away from the SAD is going to improve your health. I think comparing the SAD to anything is going to show that pretty much anything else is a miracle.
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Posts: 34,987Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium MFP Moderator Posts: 34,987Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium MFP Moderator
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    snikkins wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    I am curious about the effects of keto diets on cholesterol levels. Any insight or literature welcomed!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12097663 was a keto diet study without weight loss.

    Lower triglycerides (-33%) and a trend to higher HDL (+11.5%; P = 0.066) which is fairly typical of keto diets studies.

    Individual cholesterol responses :-
    F1.medium.gif

    Protein percentage appeared to double. I wonder how much impact that had on HDL. Interesting that total and LDL remained neutral.

    One thing I would find interesting is if they would provide similar nutrition intervention for the control group. Meaning, that they maintain their macronutrients but improved the quality of food. Because with keto, their diet was very high heavy in MUFA and PUFAs.

    Oh and funded by Atkins, lol.

    I hate when studies get clearly biased by the people paying for them. People walk away from it assuming all research is biased and can be dismissed. /rant

    Personally, even if it was funded by atkins but was designed a bit better, I would be ok. And maybe I didn't see it, but if we are going to compare two diets, we should have similar nutritional standards. Having one group follow a very nutrient dense diet vs another with no control on the quality of food is a bit battling and makes me wonder how this would compare if it looked at keto vs vegan or even Mediterranean.

    Exactly...I mean, from everything I've read and researched, pretty much anything you do to improve your diet and move away from the SAD is going to improve your health. I think comparing the SAD to anything is going to show that pretty much anything else is a miracle.

    And this is pretty much why you always hear things like: improve my blood panel, better skin (my personal fav), more energy, etc...


    Well of course, when you stop treating your body like crap and filling it with nutrient dense foods, start exercising and losing weight, of course you will see all those improve... why... because obesity is the cause for a lot of health issues.


    Edit: because OMG, the english language is difficult.
    edited February 2016
  • QuavercatQuavercat Posts: 6Member Member Posts: 6Member Member
    Great discussion everyone! If you want to explore further, the GreenMedInfo website is worth a look, as is The Truth About Cancer. These sites present the research on how sugar feeds cancer. Sure they are tending towards 'Alternative Medicine', but I think every approach can offer us tools in the control of our illness. I am convinced that holistic and integrative approaches are the way to go.
    Now for something technical! I am tracking my macros which I have set to correspond to the Keto diet; it is taking a while to adjust my eating, but it os going ok. In checking totals on MFP I noticed that the automatic calculations are inevitably out by 1 sometimes above, sometimes below. Is this your experience too? It matters when you are trying to keep an eye on things!!!! My other question - are the carbs TOTAL or NET when they are recorded on MFP? My guess is that they are total, and so to get net I need to subtract fibre.
  • ndj1979ndj1979 Posts: 29,021Member Member Posts: 29,021Member Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    snikkins wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    senecarr wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    I am curious about the effects of keto diets on cholesterol levels. Any insight or literature welcomed!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12097663 was a keto diet study without weight loss.

    Lower triglycerides (-33%) and a trend to higher HDL (+11.5%; P = 0.066) which is fairly typical of keto diets studies.

    Individual cholesterol responses :-
    F1.medium.gif

    Protein percentage appeared to double. I wonder how much impact that had on HDL. Interesting that total and LDL remained neutral.

    One thing I would find interesting is if they would provide similar nutrition intervention for the control group. Meaning, that they maintain their macronutrients but improved the quality of food. Because with keto, their diet was very high heavy in MUFA and PUFAs.

    Oh and funded by Atkins, lol.

    I hate when studies get clearly biased by the people paying for them. People walk away from it assuming all research is biased and can be dismissed. /rant

    Personally, even if it was funded by atkins but was designed a bit better, I would be ok. And maybe I didn't see it, but if we are going to compare two diets, we should have similar nutritional standards. Having one group follow a very nutrient dense diet vs another with no control on the quality of food is a bit battling and makes me wonder how this would compare if it looked at keto vs vegan or even Mediterranean.

    but that would not fit the low carb/ketoers world view ….
  • ndj1979ndj1979 Posts: 29,021Member Member Posts: 29,021Member Member
    Quavercat wrote: »
    Morning Everyone,
    I have browsed these comments with great interest. I have begun to use the Keto plan, not beause I want to lose weight, but because I am living with cancer. Carbohydrates of any sort are converted to glucose. Cancer thrives on glucose, so by starving them of it one hopes to limit their ability to proliferate. With limited carbs the body goes into ketosis and uses the fat for the energy it needs. SInce cancer cells cannot create energy from fat the theory is that they canot grow. It seems to be very useful for those with brain cancer, so why not other forms of cancer.

    My difficulty in using MFP is setting my personal macros. There is no precision here. I have to chose the closest percentage rather than the actual percentge. When entering my foods. I find the system very unhelpful because so often I cannot enter the type of units accurately. I do not find having to say how many 1gram units I have used reliable. Butter goes AWOL doing this! I Want to enter the number of grams I have weighed out, not the number of servings! It is all very 'general'. Sometimes I find bizarre readings for things like cucumber. Trying to create a recipe from raw ingredients so that I can log the meal made from this recipe is also very limited. I cannot specify the units precisely. Neither can I specify servings according to those units. In tracking what I eat, there needs to be more precision at this stage.
    Out of interest, Is there a way of importing a recipe directly from the internet? I'd value your tips as well as any exchange from those of you using Keto for health reasons, rather than weight loss.

    Hodgkin's lymphoma survivor here…

    when I did chemo and radiation they told me to eat carbs because they tend to be calorie dense and they want you to get as many calories in as possible, and it was never said that carbs should be avoided when one has cancer…

    Is this something that your oncologist suggested?

    sorry to hear about your diagnosis and hoping that you recover soon …

  • positivepowerspositivepowers Posts: 902Member Member Posts: 902Member Member
    - The amount of grease one creates from all that HF cooking can really saturate a kitchen. We're still in the process of having to scrape the congealed fat off of our appliances and light fixtures. It got everywhere.

    Imagine what it does to your arteries.
  • moe0303moe0303 Posts: 933Member Member Posts: 933Member Member
    Quavercat wrote: »
    Great discussion everyone! If you want to explore further, the GreenMedInfo website is worth a look, as is The Truth About Cancer. These sites present the research on how sugar feeds cancer. Sure they are tending towards 'Alternative Medicine', but I think every approach can offer us tools in the control of our illness. I am convinced that holistic and integrative approaches are the way to go.
    Now for something technical! I am tracking my macros which I have set to correspond to the Keto diet; it is taking a while to adjust my eating, but it os going ok. In checking totals on MFP I noticed that the automatic calculations are inevitably out by 1 sometimes above, sometimes below. Is this your experience too? It matters when you are trying to keep an eye on things!!!! My other question - are the carbs TOTAL or NET when they are recorded on MFP? My guess is that they are total, and so to get net I need to subtract fibre.
    They are total. Apparently there are ways to modify your browser to make mfp do it automatically. I haven't tried it though. You can find the info in the Low Carber Daily group in the launch pad: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group.

    edited March 2016
  • brielleboulanger13brielleboulanger13 Posts: 5Member Member Posts: 5Member Member
    exum235 wrote: »
    Ketosis is to hard to maintain its a crash diet to failure

    Totally. I tried that diet on and off for a year. Lost a lot of weight but eating so much meat and fat eventually screwed with my mood. I was so snappy! Went off the diet and all the weight came back on but I was SO much happier. Restricted food diets work but not for life.
  • lithezebralithezebra Posts: 3,684Member Member Posts: 3,684Member Member
    I would substitute non-starchy vegetables for fruit, and you're good to go.
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Posts: 7,617Member Member Posts: 7,617Member Member
    exum235 wrote: »
    Ketosis is to hard to maintain its a crash diet to failure

    @exum235 I am sorry you failed at maintaining a state of ketosis. I agree it does take an informed effort. 99% I expect have no desire to live in a state of nutritional ketosis.

    I think to be a 1%'er that has to be strong motivation to eat for better health based on my personal experience.

    The first two weeks was very painful and I do not remember very much about them now when in Oct 2014 I went off of most all sugars and all forms of all grains. At the time I had lost down from to 250 to 230 by starving myself. Over the next six month eating <50 grams of carbs daily but pigging out a lot I lost another 30 pounds and lot of inches. After six months from the 2014 start I lost off signs of my 40 years of IBS. I lost most of my muscle and joint pain that had been with me for the past 40 years. My blood work and blood pressure number all moved in a positive direction. I lost most of my physical cravings after the first 2 weeks.

    12 months after getting down to 200 pounds for the first time in 22 years I am still at 200 pounds and have stayed in a +/- 5 pound range.

    My driving motivation was to manage my pain by diet so I could just say NO to Enbrel injections that the doctors were wanting me to start. In just 30 days (Nov 2014) of this WOE my subjective pain levels dropped from 7-8 to 2-3 range and are still managed by diet as of 15 Mar 2016.

    An hour after eating breakfast my BG level was at 90 (usa) and ketone level was at 2.3.

    exum235 I agree with your point as it applies to most people. If the KETO Way Of Eating works for one it is awesome. I do not promote it to most others because they are not motivated to last the first two weeks for the pay off.
  • headofphatheadofphat Posts: 1,609Member Member Posts: 1,609Member Member
    meekmoe85 wrote: »
    6 days no carbs. Cold turkey. High fat and protein diet is working wonders. Eventually, slowly introduce fruits back in and that's all you need. :)

    I'm pretty sure Keto doesn't tell you to have zero carbs.
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Posts: 7,617Member Member Posts: 7,617Member Member
    headofphat wrote: »
    meekmoe85 wrote: »
    6 days no carbs. Cold turkey. High fat and protein diet is working wonders. Eventually, slowly introduce fruits back in and that's all you need. :)

    I'm pretty sure Keto doesn't tell you to have zero carbs.

    Correct. The general min carbs to be keto is just <50 grams of carbs daily. This does not insure weight loss but in my case after two weeks my physical cravings just started to fade quickly then the CI of CICO went down I guess. After I lost 50 pounds starting in 2014 I have been maintaining at 200 for 12 months now with other positive side effects.

    Again keto is NOT a weight loss system because one can lose/maintain or gain weight eating in a state of Nutritional Ketosis. I have proved that but to gain I had to get my daily calories 3000+. I maintain at 2500 with a macro of around 5% carbs, 15% protein and 80% fats and as noted I have done so for the past year.

    One can look like they have lost a lot of weight without the scales showing much weight loss with this Way Of Eat or at least that has been my experience for the past 18 months.

    Most people can not cut carbs out so LCHF is not an option for most people in the real world. The Zero Carb folks are few and far between but I have not found it to be possible in a practical sense in my life.

    Low carb (not keto) can be <150 grams of carbs daily.
  • CasperNaegleCasperNaegle Posts: 936Member, Premium Member Posts: 936Member, Premium Member
    These diets work because they are in a calorie deficit, not because they cut out carbs. Primarily all these diets are high protein, high fat. The high protein helps with muscle maintenance. There just is no reason to deprive yourself of good foods. Put your body in a 20% calorie deficit, eat well and you will lose.
  • lithezebralithezebra Posts: 3,684Member Member Posts: 3,684Member Member
    headofphat wrote: »
    meekmoe85 wrote: »
    6 days no carbs. Cold turkey. High fat and protein diet is working wonders. Eventually, slowly introduce fruits back in and that's all you need. :)

    I'm pretty sure Keto doesn't tell you to have zero carbs.

    You can have zero carbs, by MFP reckoning, by eating only fat and protein, and still get the small amount of carbs that you actually need from the glycerol portion of fats such as triglycerides and diglycerides.
  • ekill1313ekill1313 Posts: 1Member Member Posts: 1Member Member
    I did keto 2 years ago and the fat in my waist melted off when nothing else would work. If you crave carbs and are going to cheat, this isn't the diet for you. I see food as fuel only so I should see results quickly...hopefully
  • senecarrsenecarr Posts: 5,377Member Member Posts: 5,377Member Member
    ekill1313 wrote: »
    I did keto 2 years ago and the fat in my waist melted off when nothing else would work. If you crave carbs and are going to cheat, this isn't the diet for you. I see food as fuel only so I should see results quickly...hopefully

    Should see results quickly? So you lost weight on keto 2 years ago, and haven't maintainined despite seeing food only as fuel?
  • tincanonastringtincanonastring Posts: 3,969Member Member Posts: 3,969Member Member
    lithezebra wrote: »
    headofphat wrote: »
    meekmoe85 wrote: »
    6 days no carbs. Cold turkey. High fat and protein diet is working wonders. Eventually, slowly introduce fruits back in and that's all you need. :)

    I'm pretty sure Keto doesn't tell you to have zero carbs.

    You can have zero carbs, by MFP reckoning, by eating only fat and protein, and still get the small amount of carbs that you actually need from the glycerol portion of fats such as triglycerides and diglycerides.

    but-why.gif
  • lithezebralithezebra Posts: 3,684Member Member Posts: 3,684Member Member
    lithezebra wrote: »
    headofphat wrote: »
    meekmoe85 wrote: »
    6 days no carbs. Cold turkey. High fat and protein diet is working wonders. Eventually, slowly introduce fruits back in and that's all you need. :)

    I'm pretty sure Keto doesn't tell you to have zero carbs.

    You can have zero carbs, by MFP reckoning, by eating only fat and protein, and still get the small amount of carbs that you actually need from the glycerol portion of fats such as triglycerides and diglycerides.

    but-why.gif

    It's chemistry!!!!!! (Glycerol can be metabolized to glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate and used in glycolysis or in gluconeogenesis). You have to eat enough fat for it to work though. An all protein diet won't do it.
  • tincanonastringtincanonastring Posts: 3,969Member Member Posts: 3,969Member Member
    lithezebra wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    headofphat wrote: »
    meekmoe85 wrote: »
    6 days no carbs. Cold turkey. High fat and protein diet is working wonders. Eventually, slowly introduce fruits back in and that's all you need. :)

    I'm pretty sure Keto doesn't tell you to have zero carbs.

    You can have zero carbs, by MFP reckoning, by eating only fat and protein, and still get the small amount of carbs that you actually need from the glycerol portion of fats such as triglycerides and diglycerides.

    but-why.gif

    It's chemistry!!!!!! (Glycerol can be metabolized to glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate and used in glycolysis or in gluconeogenesis). You have to eat enough fat for it to work though. An all protein diet won't do it.

    That's the how, though. I'm not doubting the body's ability to do so. It just seems like a bleak existence and I don't understand the motivation to completely eliminate carbs.
    edited March 2016
  • lithezebralithezebra Posts: 3,684Member Member Posts: 3,684Member Member
    lithezebra wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    headofphat wrote: »
    meekmoe85 wrote: »
    6 days no carbs. Cold turkey. High fat and protein diet is working wonders. Eventually, slowly introduce fruits back in and that's all you need. :)

    I'm pretty sure Keto doesn't tell you to have zero carbs.

    You can have zero carbs, by MFP reckoning, by eating only fat and protein, and still get the small amount of carbs that you actually need from the glycerol portion of fats such as triglycerides and diglycerides.

    but-why.gif

    It's chemistry!!!!!! (Glycerol can be metabolized to glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate and used in glycolysis or in gluconeogenesis). You have to eat enough fat for it to work though. An all protein diet won't do it.

    That's the how, though. I'm not doubting the body's ability to do so. It just seems like a bleak existence and I don't understand the motivation to completely eliminate carbs.

    The how is the fun part. I don't care why people do it. As long as they do it without hurting themselves, it's either for health (epilepsy, pain relief, intractable diabetes), weight loss when other diets haven't worked (even if it was because they can't behaviorally moderate their carb intake), or personal preference. I'm a moderate low carber, however I can easily imagine people preferring to eat a lot fewer carbs than I do and being happy about it, and people who do just fine on a few hundred grams of carbs a day, and have no blood sugar issues with it at all. With my family history, I should, at least, stay on the low end of carb consumption. In my family, skinny people who exercise get type 2 diabetes. With my blood sugar level drifting toward pre-diabetes, in spite of exercising every day and being at my ideal weight, I decided to cut carbs, and I'm now smack in the low healthy range, instead of the high healthy range. (And, yes, this was a doctor approved change).
    edited March 2016
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