Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
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Ashtoretet wrote: »Something I've been wondering about recomping. Is calorie cycling really necessary? What happens if you just eat at maintenance every day?
Not much happens, you "maintain" ie: stay the same. Recomp's calorie cycling is shrinking the bulk-and-cut cycle down. In the standard method: say someone might bulk up for two months and then cut for two, while hoping to retain as much of the muscle built during the bulk period as possible.
In a recomp, it's more like a one-day bulk followed by a one-day cut. Or over a few days. Within a week, there may be 1-3 cycles.
The point of a recomp is to maintain a similar level of bodyfat all the time, while a traditional bulk and cut cycling person will be appreciably fatter more often than not.
This is an emerging technique and there's not a lot of hard evidence right now. Martin Berkhan is the guru.
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Ashtoretet wrote: »Something I've been wondering about recomping. Is calorie cycling really necessary? What happens if you just eat at maintenance every day?
No not necessary at all. Personal preference - never seen anything that actually tests and quantifies any difference in the two approaches.
It's similar to the debate about TDEE or eat back exercise calories methods - two different methods to get to the same result.
Bodily functions such as muscle recovery, repair and growth happen 24x7 and don't stop start on a daily basis.
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This is a thing !!
You wonderful person ! I've been trying to figure out how to keep up my lifting too much of a defect and I have no energy / lose fat ... My weight meh if it went down a few kg then great but could care less.
Thank you so much for being so informative
I was getting so so hung up that it took 2 months to lose another 1.6% BF down from 33.3 to 28 but that's taken its time.
I am sticking to around 150-170gr P 70gr F and 100-120gr C with now adding in one higher carb day
What is an average BF% loss in a month ?0 -
smileymaxine wrote: »This is a thing !!
You wonderful person ! I've been trying to figure out how to keep up my lifting too much of a defect and I have no energy / lose fat ... My weight meh if it went down a few kg then great but could care less.
Thank you so much for being so informative
I was getting so so hung up that it took 2 months to lose another 1.6% BF down from 33.3 to 28 but that's taken its time.
I am sticking to around 150-170gr P 70gr F and 100-120gr C with now adding in one higher carb day
What is an average BF% loss in a month ?
There is no average, and really no recommendation like that either.
Because it's really about lbs of fat lost, and depending on how much you got, the %BF could be very different.
Some will give max lbs as 1% of bodyweight - but obviously that falls apart near goal weight and low BF% - so that probably should be backed off.
But even there, 1% of bodyweight will be different amount of BF% lost depending on where you are starting from.
Besides the fact you are very unlikely to be getting accurate enough BF% figure to do any consistent math on - unless really getting DEXA scans frequently.1 -
retirehappy wrote: »NOOOO.
TDEE by definition (Total Daily Energy Expend) includes exercise - as such you take a deficit from that and then eat back exercise - you'd likely have no deficit.
The MFP method you were doing though, included NO exercise in that base goal 1630 - which would only be eaten on days of, well, no exercise - so you wouldn't be eating that low very often - if you followed the program correctly.
But the average weekly TDEE method includes your planned exercise, then you take deficit - and eat that daily.
It does NOT work well if your workouts are iffy and commonly missed. You'd likely end up with no deficit.
You'd only eat more if you did a workout not originally included in your weekly estimate.
Same deal if you miss a planned workout - drop 100 calories that day. If you make it up another day - eat an extra 100.
Click into heybales' profile, he has a spreadsheet for Just TDEE, it has helped a large number of people, it is free and easy to follow. Just do that and you will be fine.
I tried to go into heybales profile, but it's private!
I very rarely eat my exercise calories back, even at the 1630, because I just didn't feel like I needed to. I have just recently been feeling like that is not working for me anymore. I took myself from losing 1lb per week to .5lbs per week and it has me at 1880 calories per day now. Feels like a significantly higher amount. I'm still pretty lost on this. I have been trying really hard to eat at my protein goal that mfp gives me, which is around 130 grams. I've been eating beyond that as much as possible. Mindset changing from eating lower calories and fat to more calories and fat is difficult, but I'm making progress!0 -
ereckless82 wrote: »retirehappy wrote: »NOOOO.
TDEE by definition (Total Daily Energy Expend) includes exercise - as such you take a deficit from that and then eat back exercise - you'd likely have no deficit.
The MFP method you were doing though, included NO exercise in that base goal 1630 - which would only be eaten on days of, well, no exercise - so you wouldn't be eating that low very often - if you followed the program correctly.
But the average weekly TDEE method includes your planned exercise, then you take deficit - and eat that daily.
It does NOT work well if your workouts are iffy and commonly missed. You'd likely end up with no deficit.
You'd only eat more if you did a workout not originally included in your weekly estimate.
Same deal if you miss a planned workout - drop 100 calories that day. If you make it up another day - eat an extra 100.
Click into heybales' profile, he has a spreadsheet for Just TDEE, it has helped a large number of people, it is free and easy to follow. Just do that and you will be fine.
I tried to go into heybales profile, but it's private!
I very rarely eat my exercise calories back, even at the 1630, because I just didn't feel like I needed to. I have just recently been feeling like that is not working for me anymore. I took myself from losing 1lb per week to .5lbs per week and it has me at 1880 calories per day now. Feels like a significantly higher amount. I'm still pretty lost on this. I have been trying really hard to eat at my protein goal that mfp gives me, which is around 130 grams. I've been eating beyond that as much as possible. Mindset changing from eating lower calories and fat to more calories and fat is difficult, but I'm making progress!
I'm able to view his profile without any problems. When you click on his profile name, the popup box gives you three options - send a message (button), ignore (also button) or view profile (by clicking on his hyperlinked profile name or photo). Is that not happening for you?0 -
ereckless82 wrote: »retirehappy wrote: »NOOOO.
TDEE by definition (Total Daily Energy Expend) includes exercise - as such you take a deficit from that and then eat back exercise - you'd likely have no deficit.
The MFP method you were doing though, included NO exercise in that base goal 1630 - which would only be eaten on days of, well, no exercise - so you wouldn't be eating that low very often - if you followed the program correctly.
But the average weekly TDEE method includes your planned exercise, then you take deficit - and eat that daily.
It does NOT work well if your workouts are iffy and commonly missed. You'd likely end up with no deficit.
You'd only eat more if you did a workout not originally included in your weekly estimate.
Same deal if you miss a planned workout - drop 100 calories that day. If you make it up another day - eat an extra 100.
Click into heybales' profile, he has a spreadsheet for Just TDEE, it has helped a large number of people, it is free and easy to follow. Just do that and you will be fine.
I tried to go into heybales profile, but it's private!
I very rarely eat my exercise calories back, even at the 1630, because I just didn't feel like I needed to. I have just recently been feeling like that is not working for me anymore. I took myself from losing 1lb per week to .5lbs per week and it has me at 1880 calories per day now. Feels like a significantly higher amount. I'm still pretty lost on this. I have been trying really hard to eat at my protein goal that mfp gives me, which is around 130 grams. I've been eating beyond that as much as possible. Mindset changing from eating lower calories and fat to more calories and fat is difficult, but I'm making progress!
It's public to all MFP members - so if you accessed from web browser that didn't have you logged into MFP - yes it would fail.
If your exercise is such it's not that big of a net gain to the daily calorie burn - that may not be that bad.
But as you noticed - it made the deficit bigger than your body appears to have liked, and perhaps you noticed it effecting your workouts.
Well, if you can't get a good workout - what need does the body have to improve anything?
250 cal not that significant unless you attempt to add the calories all as cauliflower or something like that.
Good job on progressing, you'll find a place for the calories.
Shoot - if you were already meeting your nutritional needs - 1 serving of peanut butter almost takes care of all 250 calories.0 -
This is all I see. I'm using the app for iPhone!
Today I burned close to 630 calories and didn't eat back any of those calories. Today was cardio before and after weight training. I usually always burn at least 300-400 calories per workout. Maybe I should eat some of them back now. It's 7PM, so maybe just some peanut butter on bread would do the trick?1 -
I think you have to click on his name on that screen0
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ereckless82 wrote: »I tried to go into heybales profile, but it's private!
Try this link to the document:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
Again ,thanks to heybales for all his hard work on those documents he has shared so freely.
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Ashtoretet wrote: »Something I've been wondering about recomping. Is calorie cycling really necessary? What happens if you just eat at maintenance every day?
No not necessary at all. Personal preference - never seen anything that actually tests and quantifies any difference in the two approaches.
It's similar to the debate about TDEE or eat back exercise calories methods - two different methods to get to the same result.
Bodily functions such as muscle recovery, repair and growth happen 24x7 and don't stop start on a daily basis.
Thank you for the reply, your last line is exactly why I was questioning it. I think I'm going to just stick to maintenance for now while upping my protein. If I don't see any results in a few months I'll look into the cycling.0 -
Ashtoretet wrote: »Something I've been wondering about recomping. Is calorie cycling really necessary? What happens if you just eat at maintenance every day?
No not necessary at all. Personal preference - never seen anything that actually tests and quantifies any difference in the two approaches.
It's similar to the debate about TDEE or eat back exercise calories methods - two different methods to get to the same result.
Bodily functions such as muscle recovery, repair and growth happen 24x7 and don't stop start on a daily basis.
Thank you for the reply, your last line is exactly why I was questioning it. I think I'm going to just stick to maintenance for now while upping my protein. If I don't see any results in a few months I'll look into the cycling.0 -
Ashtoretet wrote: »Something I've been wondering about recomping. Is calorie cycling really necessary? What happens if you just eat at maintenance every day?
No not necessary at all. Personal preference - never seen anything that actually tests and quantifies any difference in the two approaches.
It's similar to the debate about TDEE or eat back exercise calories methods - two different methods to get to the same result.
Bodily functions such as muscle recovery, repair and growth happen 24x7 and don't stop start on a daily basis.
Thank you for the reply, your last line is exactly why I was questioning it. I think I'm going to just stick to maintenance for now while upping my protein. If I don't see any results in a few months I'll look into the cycling.0 -
ereckless82 wrote: »This is all I see. I'm using the app for iPhone!
Today I burned close to 630 calories and didn't eat back any of those calories. Today was cardio before and after weight training. I usually always burn at least 300-400 calories per workout. Maybe I should eat some of them back now. It's 7PM, so maybe just some peanut butter on bread would do the trick?
You have to call out "heybales" while clicking on the name - pretty sure.
But - you're about to go look at something that probably won't work through the app anyway - a link that @retirehappy beat me to posting.
You'll have to use a browser, and if planning on using the iPhone, also the Google Sheets app, and a Google account with Drive to copy it to.
And yeah, that's back to a huge deficit now (250+630) with amount of weight to lose - and hoping to fuel good workouts or good recovery from an attempted good workout.
Until you have the ability to compare workouts on current eating plan to workouts on one actually eating enough - you'll have no idea how good the workouts could be.
Because the feeling of pushing and giving it your all is always subjective.
But hold your breath and do as many pushups as you can.
You gave it your all - but think that was a workout for your muscles for strength, or anaerobic endurance?
Now, perhaps you do need anaerobic endurance for some odd reason and so that's a totally valid training method. But not likely to get much stronger from it until your body can deal with the no breathing problem first, and even then progress will be slow.
But now breath and do as many as you can, probably feels different.1 -
You have to wait until midnight, burn a candle and look into a mirror while chanting "Heybales!"
But it's a great calculator with a lot more detail. I use Google Sheets to copy & use it.4 -
OOO thanks for the re-share my file was the old format from 2012, wahoo for the new 2014 version.
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sunflowerhippi wrote: »OOO thanks for the re-share my file was the old format from 2012, wahoo for the new 2014 version.
Ah - you had the bigger Weight Loss calculator, which actually was updated Jan '14 also.
I did the Just TDEE one to improve on the rough 5 level tables which don't include higher daily activities, but super simple.0 -
I should have included above when looking at the spreadsheets, and wanting to get them, the following (since I get requests to share all the time).
Glance over to red words in upper right as to how to get it.
I can't share the master copy - or else everyone using it would be updating stats for anyone else using it - and if formula changed, ugh.
You have to make your own copy.0 -
I don't know if you can tell a difference... The first pic is today.
This pic is from November:
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Bioklutz, I can sure see a difference in those pics. Your back is so much leaner more arms definition. You are Rocking your program.0
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