I understand and then I don't (scales and weighing and calorie worrying)
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As far as I can tell (and I admit I'm skimming) you asked two questions in your OP:
"But this is a lifestyle change, it should not, after time, require food scales and worrying over juice in a can..should it?"
and
"I am not suggesting that you stop using a food scale, or stop trying to determine how many calories you input and how many you output, but at some point it is overdoing it..isn't it?"
Both are questions that you asked and then answered within the same sentence. Both have the same answer: *shrug* it depends on the person.2 -
Hell, I cut on 3200 but still weigh and measure. It's easier to fit in all the yummy cake that way.3
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When you have a large amount of weight to lose, and reduce your calories as drastically as you did, then weighing matters less. A 308 pound man can lose if he estimates food. It is also possible just to cut out stuff like soft drinks or candy and lose without really counting calories.
The challenge is when you are trying to lose a pound a week and you only weigh 150 pounds. Then every gram really does matter.
Being 200 calories "off" a day matters very little when you are 300 pounds. But once you reach the lower range 200 calories extra a day can be the difference in loss and gain.
This. I am only trying to lose a half a pound a week. That's a weekly deficit of 1750 calories. 250 calories off in one day is enough to wipe out my deficit for the day. It's possible for me to go out to eat and wipe out my entire weekly deficit in one sitting, and in fact, I have done it. When you're working with slim margins like this, a little bit counts. But I'd rather count calories and weigh my food than severely restrict and lose muscle or mess up my metabolism or make myself crazy from deprivation that I can't maintain and don't need.5 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
I do get this comment..
But, with MFP it is all about numbers.. Everything is about the numbers. Has nothing really to do with getting fit per se, etc....
If you hate numbers or math, then calorie counting is the absolutely wrong thing for you to be doing and should find an alternate way to achieve your goals.
Why OP is doing something he despises is what I do not understand.
There is always more than one way to get to the destination or to the end result, it is what you choose to get you there and the path you choose!
I really don't understand WHY you think I am doing something I despise? I am a numbers guy..so I love the calorie counting aspect...CICO..I also understand there is more than way..hence the post..asking for WHY you do it..how long you're going to do..always? Forever? Etc etc..At some point I hope to not have to log in and count calories..at some point in my life, I hope to have learned what is what..about how many calories, how much exercise I should get in..etc etc.
I hope not to be tied to an online app or food scale all my life? If you use these things and swear by them..how do you handle it when you can't use them? I've seen people say they take their food scale to a restaurant?
I'm like seriously??? I wish you success on your journey!2 -
FitFroglet wrote: »I'm glad you've found a way that works for you and that you find sustainable.
For me, weighing stuff is kind of a way of life now. It doesn't bother me.
However I've got other factors at play too - weighing helps me be accurate with my carb count which helps me manage my type 1 diabetes better so I have a bigger payoff to the time invested in weighing things out.
Great work on getting more activity into your routine, it sounds like you're doing all kinds of good things for your health.
Thank you for your thoughts! I appreciate the feedback and wish you well on your life's journey!1 -
I am going to try and reply to everyone, because I asked for feedback and I truly do appreciate it. As I stated, this post was not to criticize anyone's choices, but to understand where people are coming from. We all share a desire to be healthier, more fit, etc or we wouldn't be on here. Heck, I bought a scale..a nice stainless steel one too..set me back $20..and I found I don't use it often. Then I see advice given all the time as I said..get a scale..weigh everything..I take my scale everywhere..I have mine on a leash (Ok..maybe not that one)
I appreciate everyone's thoughts and wish you all well on your life's journey! I will try and reply to all..but it's time for my meager allotment of calories here for dinner/supper tonight!2 -
Personally I find using a food scale to be less time consuming than using measuring cups/spoons and less stressful than estimating. My portion sizes don't have to be exact if I don't want them to be and I don't worry so much about my numbers being accurate.2
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mathiseasy wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
Hm. I am feeling some type of way about food weighers being compared to people who use shovels to move dirt (implication: ineffective and labor intensive, not worth it) versus people who use tractors (implication: effective and not very labor intensive, worth it) despite all the testimonials of people who count their calories.
You'd already stated your point. There is no need to insult calorie counters because it's not the way you'd do it.
It comes down to personality. You could see what I said negative or you could see positive. Your choice.
I still like to throw that out there in case those who find counting tedious and not long term and wish to find another approach or just gain a bit more confidence.
Edit: indeed I just read that the OP is one of the people who states ".At some point I hope to not have to log in and count calories..at some point in my life, I hope to have learned what is what.."1 -
I weigh everything except celery and cucumber.
I lost around 30lb without weighing, just eyeballing portions and choosing healthier foods but eventually the weight stopped coming off. When I joined mfp and started weighing food, the losses began again. I'm a 5'1 female and my wiggle room is just too small to guess calories.
I don't take my scale out of the house and just guess at calories eaten out (which is rare) or at friends houses and I don't worry about it. But I can only do that because I have a precise handle on things the rest of the time. Far from making me worry about my intake, the scale removes any worry because there is no guessing involved. If I don't lose weight one week, I just shrug and keep going, because I know it'll even out eventually.2 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »mathiseasy wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
If people could get fit without counting calories, they'd probably do that too. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with using calorie counting as a tool for weight loss or that the people who choose it are only comfortable with what they know and don't want to expand.
Food scales, calorie databases, . . . these things are just tools. I don't think one can make assumptions about broader personality traits based on someone choosing to use certain tools for weight loss over others.
You are getting ahead of yourself. I never said anything wrong with counting. In fact it's the right way if that's all you know and are getting results. Actually there's no right or wrong. It's just effectiveness and the cost of it. Many people still use shovels to move dirt. Then, there are those who use tractors.
To me counting is just a rudimentary approach to controlling weight.
Hm. I am feeling some type of way about food weighers being compared to people who use shovels to move dirt (implication: ineffective and labor intensive, not worth it) versus people who use tractors (implication: effective and not very labor intensive, worth it) despite all the testimonials of people who count their calories.
You'd already stated your point. There is no need to insult calorie counters because it's not the way you'd do it.
It comes down to personality. You could see what I said negative or you could see positive. Your choice.
I still like to throw that out there in case those who find counting tedious and not long term and wish to find another approach or just gain a bit more confidence.
Edit: indeed I just read that the OP is one of the people who states ".At some point I hope to not have to log in and count calories..at some point in my life, I hope to have learned what is what.."
I fail to see how my personality or the wording of the OP has anything to do with the condescending and insulting tone of your post.
Whatever, agree to disagree.2 -
BiggDaddy58 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies.
Choosing to weigh doesn't mean that one is only comfortable with what they know and not expanding. It just means they have found a method that works for them.
I don't know if there are "tendencies" to "understand" as much as there are different methods that people can choose based on their lifestyle, goals, and preferences.
It's controversial when intelligence or capability is discussed. So we better not go there. But think about this, as most things in life there tends to be superior ways and rudimentary ways. Do you think all fit people need to weigh? The answer is obviously No. If people could get fit without weighing, do you think they would take that option? Yes.
I do get this comment..
But, with MFP it is all about numbers.. Everything is about the numbers. Has nothing really to do with getting fit per se, etc....
If you hate numbers or math, then calorie counting is the absolutely wrong thing for you to be doing and should find an alternate way to achieve your goals.
Why OP is doing something he despises is what I do not understand.
There is always more than one way to get to the destination or to the end result, it is what you choose to get you there and the path you choose!
I really don't understand WHY you think I am doing something I despise? I am a numbers guy..so I love the calorie counting aspect...CICO..I also understand there is more than way..hence the post..asking for WHY you do it..how long you're going to do..always? Forever? Etc etc..At some point I hope to not have to log in and count calories..at some point in my life, I hope to have learned what is what..about how many calories, how much exercise I should get in..etc etc.
!
I sort of get it I think. But if by 57 you have not worked out self control and worked out how to do it without tools, what makes you think you will work it out now ?
I'm 44 myself and been at it for 4 years now getting healthier and weight control being part of that. The scale is a tool like many other tools and frankly I reckon I tried 40 years of my life without the tools and that didn't work out so good hence why I now use them.4 -
For me, I set my sights on losing weight straight through, without too much preventable mistakes, and I read tons of articles and blogs, and threads here on MFP about the reasons behind the ever so dreaded plateaus. I decided that I would never be that person who struggled to lose weight once she approached her goal range.
I lost the first 15ish pounds on my own, without logging and weighing, then another couple pounds with just logging, and for the rest of weight loss and into maintenance, I log(ged) and weigh(ed).
Basically, I tightened up my logging as I neared my goal weight, knowing that underestimating would have a greater impact as I got closer to my goal weight.
With all of this, I never had trouble losing and maintaining weight consistently.
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BiggDaddy58 wrote: »"OP, I already saw this side a few weeks in. I realize the body is really good at managing surplus and deficit and in a lot longer than 24 hours. I stopped weighing foods after 2 months in. It's unnecessary to be precise with 1xxx calories. Life (at least mine) is much more spontaneous and up/down than such precision. I have enough worries and I don't need another worry about calories. All the work and concern about foods are pale in comparison to a bit of effort used for self control around foods.
That said, everyone is different. Many people are comfortable with what they only know and not expanding. It's good that they are losing weight with what they learned on first day. You don't have to, and you cannot, understand everyone's tendencies."
You wrote:
Thanks for understanding my thoughts. I certainly did not intend them to alienate people, and it isn't a criticism of their choices. I appreciate the feedback.
I think I understand what you are feeling and asking which I do not see anything negative. I have been through this thought process -- so I know -- and that's why I've refined my approach to fit my lifestyle.
My lifestyle consists of: being spontaneous with friends, family members, events when it comes to foods. The flow of dinner time, creative cooking, being happy with the amount of foods and consuming dishes the way they are meant, flexibility, on and on...
Basically I get to the source of the eating issue. It's self control. I'm no longer naive to see only good things about foods. Foods have their place and time and their own values. That took some training. As soon as I have that perspective, controlling myself around foods has become so much easier and ironically foods also taste much better (I don't skim, abuse, and I get healthier, that kind of things).
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I began this as Obese II with no scale. I lost a bunch of weight, then got a scale. I lost a bunch more weight. Now I am Obese I. Many successful maintainers don't use a scale and that's ok. People were healthy eating a moderate variety of foods long before digital scales were invented. I'm going to keep using my scale and logging every 1 or 2 gram variety in a stalk of celery just because I'm fascinated with the knowledge. When I get close to my goal and when the rate of change is very slow and the calorie deficit is 250, I certainly will use the scale because that's when it matters most. For most of us in the Obese ranges, the scale is a teaching instrument that teaches you why you're not losing despite your protestations of starvation mode. Not you directly, @BigDaddy58, but you've seen these discussions and you know what I'm talking about.2
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Wait till you get to the last 10 lbs. Every morsel matters because you have no margin of error.
Also, if you come on MFP having never been overweight but trying to get rid of the ever nagging 10 vanity lbs that your body has liked holding onto, you have to be precise.
Having said that, I'm a numbers nerd, and I like logging, but I mainly weigh calorie dense things like pasta, butter,oil. But if I buy a bag of halo tangerines and they appear to be uniform in size, I only weigh the first one and use that amount over and over till the bag is gone.
Not because I mind using a scale, but sometimes just as a time saver.
I've also learned that while losing the last 10 lbs, and aiming for the recommended 1/2 lb per week loss that I have to aim for a higher 300 calorie deficit to lose weight. Either that, or WEiGH EVERYTHING!!3 -
diannethegeek wrote: »I use my scale right now even though I'm not logging or actively trying to lose. I use it because it's way easier than messing around with measuring cups/spoons. When I want to make pancakes, I don't have to dig out and dirty the right measuring cup to measure out my pancake mix. I just put a bowl on the scale, pour out as much as I need, add water and mix. It saves me a little trouble and I don't have to wash as many dishes. When I add creamer to my coffee, again coffee on scale, hit the tare button, and pour in my creamer until I hit the right amount. Makes my mornings a lot faster and I don't end up with overly sweet coffee. Plus I get to pretend I'm a mad scientist every morning. What's not to like about that?
OH MAH GAWD THANK YOU!!! I feel so stupid, i've been weighing out the creamer, I NEVER thought to put the cup on the scale LMAO!10 -
Like some others have said, I still use my scale because I find it a lot easier than messing with measuring cups. I used a scale to bake for years before using it for dieting, so it doesn't seem weird to me.
I'm currently at maintenance and not logging, but I still weigh some things because it's helpful. I suck at estimating pasta or oatmeal or the like and don't see any reason to pull out less accurate measuring cups when the scale is easier. I like having a serving of ice cream after dinner, so I weigh it out when I do. I'm not obsessive about getting it right to the gram, but measuring keeps me honest. Same with meat and cheese and cottage cheese (which I love). With ice cream or cottage cheese a scale is FAR easier than getting out measuring implements (put bowl on scale and add ice cream until I hit the right amount). For meat, well, weight is the normal way to do it anyway. I could eyeball, but for me weighing is part of the cooking process. I sometimes still find myself dumping veggies on the scale after I chop even though there's no reason to. But sometimes it makes me think "you know, I really should have a little more."Otherwise I use the information listed on the package or what MFP has for it.
Other than things like pasta (which like I said, I suck at estimating) or ice cream, most of what I eat has no package.
I started with lots to lose and lost the first chunk without weighing, because I was afraid it would feel burdensome. I mainly estimated. I lost fine, because I knew how to eat to lose weight and tracking was helpful. When I got more specific I realized I was undereating (I had already as I was losing 3 lb/week, but was scared to add back in some higher cal foods). Being more accurate helped me with that.
I eventually learned about tracking accurately (using the USDA entries and weighing) because I found it fun. I may decide to lose more weight (I'm 125 now), and while I maybe could without weighing I'd likely weigh again because for me it's motivating and a fun part of the process. I go out to eat often enough at places with no calorie listing, so even when I'm weighing I'm always aware there's imperfections.
I think a lot of people who question it like you did assume that it's more burdensome than it is. I find making recipes a burden and so rarely do it (I list out all my ingredients separately unless the dish makes it impossible to do that), but weighing for me is no burden -- less of one than spending time estimating, as I learned when I switched. (The worst part of logging for me is having to estimate restaurant meals, so I typically just guess at the calories.)1 -
I lost 50lbs at a rate of over 2lbs a week without MFP and without counting anything. I was white knuckling it and deep down inside KNEW that I had no hope of maintaining.
I found MFP while trying to figure out a healthier way to lose weight. I read the stickies, Forums. Blah, blah.
Went on to losing another 50lbs at a rate of between 1 and 1.5lbs a week, much more comfortably and confidently while logging and weighing things.
And once I got to within the lower overweight range proceeded to lose another 20lbs past that at a rate of between 0 and 0.75lbs a week.
In case you're wondering, my true deficit the past 6 months comes to ~159Cal a day (logged deficit is closer to 350). Oh, and i am doing DXA scans too, so I am taking body composition changes into account when it comes to calculating the actual deficit
I often take pictures when I'm out with acquaintances and log that way, mainly so that THEY feel comfortable at restaurants with me. My first guess about a breakfast of Eggs Benedict on Sunday was approximately 185 calories less than what the restaurant's nutritional information pegs it at.
Other than to humble-brag, what's the point of the above?
Having a scale and accurate calculations allows me to eat the most I can while meeting my goals.
In fact a part of my goals is to maximize the amount of food I eat, consistent with my goals.
Because to my mind doing so increases my chance of long term success.
Oh: and if the other guests had a problem seeing me weight my food at the all you can eat fish and chip place a few months back... they can kiss my *kitten*. Because I thoroughly did enjoy all six of my pieces of fish and two orders of fries. And logged them. And continued to meet my goals!
Your strategy is "drop calories till I see results".
I can assure you that during a slower loss phase you will often do not see results for appreciable lengths of time, which means you will need to have confidence in your measurements.
So, in order to succeed with your strategy, you would have to drop your calories more than you would with a more precisely measured approach.
The most probable side effects of excessive deficits are:
--increased risk of non compliance
--increased loss of lean mass
--increased adaptive thermogenesis
All of which tend to lead to a plateaux at a higher weight and after a shorter period of caloric restriction than otherwise.
YMMV
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I would like to ask so I could learn...
The most probable side effects of excessive deficits are:
--increased risk of non compliance
--increased loss of lean mass
--increased adaptive thermogenesis
YMMV
How much is excessive? And how long does this excessiveness have to take place before we run into the increased risks?
What is YMMV? 0 -
Why would someone want to overestimate how many calories they're consuming when they could make sure their calories are accurate and be able to eat more food? I wouldn't want to short change myself when it comes to food. If it works for you, that's awesome. I prefer to weigh my food because it really takes the guesswork out of it. Not to mention, if I didn't weigh my food I would still be at 175 lbs wondering why the weight isn't dropping and thinking I'm doing something wrong. I was doing something wrong. I was consuming more calories than I burned. I'm at 161 lbs so weighing my food is crucial. Once I started using a food scale the weight literally started melting off.11
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