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Why do people overeat and/or become obese? Is it harder than average for some to lose weight?

JaneSnowe
JaneSnowe Posts: 1,283 Member
edited June 2016 in Debate Club
On different threads I've seen people saying that weight loss is more complex than CICO. I don't think they all mean that CICO doesn't work (though a few do); I suspect they're trying to say that, for them, either Calories In is harder to limit or that Calories Out is harder to achieve than for the average person.

On a recent thread this topic came to the forefront, but so as to not derail that thread --and also to give people with a different perspective on CICO than what is typical on MFP a chance to speak their minds-- I've decided to move the conversation here.

The post that sparked this thread is:
Why are they eating so much? What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed? Casually pointing out that people who have trouble losing weight "are eating too much" isn't helping people identify why.

The topics up for discussion are exactly what's in the title.

Here is a link that one person provided to explain why "put down the fork" is overly simplistic advice for some people. I thought it would make a good starting point.

https://medium.com/@dannylennon/why-do-we-overeat-homeostatic-vs-non-homeostatic-eating-1d2e8e33ddce#.63y2auqhy
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Replies

  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    moe0303 wrote: »
    I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:

    In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.

    The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.

    The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.

    Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.

    I don't believe this for one second.

    Lack of education.
  • moe0303
    moe0303 Posts: 934 Member
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:

    In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.

    The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.

    The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.

    Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.

    I don't believe this for one second.

    Lack of education.

    That's fine.

    Are you saying I lack education or the people I am talking about lack education. What education is lacking?
  • JaneSnowe
    JaneSnowe Posts: 1,283 Member
    moe0303 wrote: »
    I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:

    In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.

    The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.

    The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.

    Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.

    ETA: @JaneSnowe let me know if you don't want the thread to be another addiction debate and I'll delete my comment.

    I think there are people out there who believe that this happens to them and feel that it's out of their control. I think it's valid to bring this up and I'd like to hear from anyone who feels this way. I'm curious what they think would help them if CICO seems out of their control.
  • JaneSnowe
    JaneSnowe Posts: 1,283 Member
    There's a lot of misinformation out there. One big piece of it is the oft repeated "2000 calories a day is a healthy diet". That isn't true for everyone. I gained steadily on an average of 2000 healthy calories a day. I do have PCOS, but even if I didn't, smaller women can have slower metabolisms and don't necessarily need that amount of food, especially as they age.
    There's a perception that everyone who becomes very overweight does so by eating fast food 2-3 times a day or otherwise eating junk, but simply by having second helpings or one snack too many over enough time, you can gain an enormous amount of weight in just a few years. Accordingly it was a real shock when I had to finally face how strictly I had to diet in order to lose. I'm still bitter about it, especially when people continue to believe I spent years pigging out constantly. But I have given up on trying to change anyone's mind. They can believe I'm a hog who stuffs my face all they want - I know it was never true.

    I know what you mean about the 2000 calories. I always heard that and so thought it applied to me, too. What a disappointment to learn I need less than that!
  • moe0303
    moe0303 Posts: 934 Member
    edited June 2016
    JaneSnowe wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:

    In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.

    The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.

    The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.

    Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.

    ETA: @JaneSnowe let me know if you don't want the thread to be another addiction debate and I'll delete my comment.

    I think there are people out there who believe that this happens to them and feel that it's out of their control. I think it's valid to bring this up and I'd like to hear from anyone who feels this way. I'm curious what they think would help them if CICO seems out of their control.

    I don't know if that is the right terminology (CICO being out of control). I think the way it was phrased in your OP is a little better.
    What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed?

    That is what I was trying to address with my opinion.

    Regarding what they think would help them, I think most find help though addressing underlying issues on the mental side of the problem. There are usually mental or emotional situations which drive people to those behaviors. They can recover from those issues using various types of treatments or methodologies such as Cognitive Behavior Therapy or other programs.
  • JaneSnowe
    JaneSnowe Posts: 1,283 Member
    edited June 2016
    moe0303 wrote: »
    JaneSnowe wrote: »
    moe0303 wrote: »
    I don't really see how this thread won't end up here anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:

    In some (or many) cases, people are afflicted with a compulsion/addiction/condition/whatever-term-that-won't-cause-mental-anguish-to-people. I believe that there is both a physical and mental component to this.

    The physical is that there is an abnormal reaction to the effects of certain behaviors and or experiences (such as overeating and/or eating highly palatable foods). This reaction manifests in a phenomenal craving. Once the craving is triggered, it cannot be satisfied.

    The mental aspect is an obsession with the behavior or experience. They are inexplicably drawn to attempt normal consumption even if they have proven an inability to do so in the past. No matter their level of commitment or the seriousness of their situation (i.e. you'll have to get your leg amputated if you can't get this under control), they will trigger the craving again.

    Basically it boils down to this, they can't stop once they've started and they can't stop themselves from starting.

    ETA: @JaneSnowe let me know if you don't want the thread to be another addiction debate and I'll delete my comment.

    I think there are people out there who believe that this happens to them and feel that it's out of their control. I think it's valid to bring this up and I'd like to hear from anyone who feels this way. I'm curious what they think would help them if CICO seems out of their control.

    I don't know if that is the right terminology (CICO being out of control). I think the way it was phrased in your OP is a little better.
    What drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed?

    That is what I was trying to address with my opinion.

    Regarding what they think would help them, I think most find help though addressing underlying issues on the mental side of the problem. There are usually mental or emotional situations which drive people to those behaviors. They can recover from those issues using various types of treatments or methodologies such as Cognitive Behavior Therapy or other programs.

    Good points.

    Sometimes, when I see people here on MFP say that not everything is CICO (or whatever words they use when they think their systems are more complicated than what's normal) it makes me wonder what they want people to say to them and why they are on a calorie counting site to begin with. I'd really like to hear what they have to say.

    There was someone the other day talking about "outliers" and I wish she'd said what help she thinks can be given to them if not CICO.
  • JaneSnowe
    JaneSnowe Posts: 1,283 Member
    Having done it myself, I understand why people overeat and become overweight. Pleasure. Food tastes good. Beer and wine makes me feel good. Sharing food and drink with friends is fun and relaxing.

    I really don't understand becoming very overweight or obese. I don't know what makes some nip it in the bud before it gets really out of control while others take to a level that to me would seem to take the pleasure out of it.

    I wonder about this too. I know it's a complex subject, not as simple as "food tastes good and releases dopamine".