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Why do people overeat and/or become obese? Is it harder than average for some to lose weight?
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KetoneKaren wrote: »I watched an interesting documentary on how food is staged to make it look really palatable when photographed. One of the things they do is use motor oil on it to give it a nice sheen and enrich the colors. This got me thinking about ways to resist palatable looking food, and it made me remember an acquaintance of mine who was obsessed with chocolate milk and wanted to stop drinking it. Everytime she saw it in the store she imagined it had soured & curdled, or worse yet Gross Alert that it had maggots in it. It worked. So now when there is a bunch of really yummy food at work (which is a regular occurrence) and I want to stick to my plan, I imagine it with botulism or E. coli or Another Gross Alert hair or maggots in it. I do not touch it. Ugh. It works LOL!!!
My mom actually accidentally drank milk that had gone bad. She never wanted to drink it on its own as a beverage again. Interestingly she COULD consume it in cereal and loved ice cream and milkshakes.0 -
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I'm technically obese (current BMI is 31) and while I suppose I could justify it based on workload or work related stress the simple truth is that I'm overweight because I've been eating more calories that I'd been burning. The bottom line is that I can control my eating...
We all know that we are overweight because we consume more calories than we burn. This thread is discussing "why"? If it were so simplistic thrn we wouldn't struggle with losing the weight.1 -
The article cited in the OP following up on BL contestants mentioned that they struggled with maintaining after the diet is over. When I was thin I didn't have to diet just to maintain and naturally and intuitively stayed within a couple pounds of my normal weight. Actually I never counted calories until about 4 years ago. I have managed to lose 10 pounds but am struggling to get the last 10 off because the margins for deficit are small. I'm not making excuses. I'm trying to find answers. If my body isn't giving me the internal signals like it once did I have somehow lost something I once had.3
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@DebSozo One time when I was within 10lbs of goal I made 2 changes that allowed me to get to goal: I stopped eating after a certain hour, and I took up another physical activity (I think it was Carolina Shag) that was fun. Not that these would be your things, but it became much less agonizing because I turned my attention to learning the dance. When I wanted to eat after a certain hour, I practiced my dance steps instead. It worked quite well.3
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KetoneKaren wrote: »@DebSozo One time when I was within 10lbs of goal I made 2 changes that allowed me to get to goal: I stopped eating after a certain hour, and I took up another physical activity (I think it was Carolina Shag) that was fun. Not that these would be your things, but it became much less agonizing because I turned my attention to learning the dance. When I wanted to eat after a certain hour, I practiced my dance steps instead. It worked quite well.
Great advice! I can do that.0 -
I like Zumba. My husband goes to bed early because he gets up for work at 3:30, so he wouldn't appreciate the music late at night. But I could add it in early in the morning.0
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I had a couple of hours drive to get to a client site this morning and while driving there was a phone-in show about obesity (because of a recent report highlighting an expected increase in obesity related illness in the UK in the next decade or so). What struck me about the phone in was that pretty much everyone that called in who was obese justified it one way or another - usually saying it was because of a medical condition. Just one lady called in and admitted that her being overweight was just simply because she was eating more than she thought (and she mentioned she realised that when she started tracking her food intake on MFP). Now while I'm sure that there are cases where a medical situation will be a factor it did sound like it many cases the excuses were just that - excuses.
I'm technically obese (current BMI is 31) and while I suppose I could justify it based on workload or work related stress the simple truth is that I'm overweight because I've been eating more calories that I'd been burning. The bottom line is that I can control my eating, I can exercise and I can make time for exercise - so solving the issue is entirely under my control - and I suspect most people are just like me.
This statement is kind of dear to me because it always seems to be called out as a motivation for claiming an addiction. To be excused means to be relieved of consequences. What was the nature of the call in? In this thread, the question is asked to determine reasons or causes. Saying one is addicted does not excuse them of consequences any more than not knowing how much they were eating, or bad time management does. It is just a slightly different problem for them which may require slightly different solutions. Notice that I said different and not harder. We all have our own journey. Knowing the parameters of the problems we face enables us to effectively seek out a solution. I am thankful for threads like these where those parameters can be discussed.3 -
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mskessler89 wrote: »I do wonder how much medicine factors into this. Do some obese people feel like there's more of a safety net, that our medical advances will be able to save them? I know a person who abuses alcohol who assumes that if he needs a new liver, he'll just get a transplant. If medicine allows you to continue in your pleasurable but harmful habits, do you take advantage of that.....?
People DO abuse the medical profession, and that infuriates me as much as the people who are infuriated with "big pharma" taking advantage of sick people.
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I had a couple of hours drive to get to a client site this morning and while driving there was a phone-in show about obesity (because of a recent report highlighting an expected increase in obesity related illness in the UK in the next decade or so). What struck me about the phone in was that pretty much everyone that called in who was obese justified it one way or another - usually saying it was because of a medical condition. Just one lady called in and admitted that her being overweight was just simply because she was eating more than she thought (and she mentioned she realised that when she started tracking her food intake on MFP). Now while I'm sure that there are cases where a medical situation will be a factor it did sound like it many cases the excuses were just that - excuses.
I'm technically obese (current BMI is 31) and while I suppose I could justify it based on workload or work related stress the simple truth is that I'm overweight because I've been eating more calories that I'd been burning. The bottom line is that I can control my eating, I can exercise and I can make time for exercise - so solving the issue is entirely under my control - and I suspect most people are just like me.
This statement is kind of dear to me because it always seems to be called out as a motivation for claiming an addiction. To be excused means to be relieved of consequences. What was the nature of the call in? In this thread, the question is asked to determine reasons or causes. Saying one is addicted does not excuse them of consequences any more than not knowing how much they were eating, or bad time management does. It is just a slightly different problem for them which may require slightly different solutions. Notice that I said different and not harder. We all have our own journey. Knowing the parameters of the problems we face enables us to effectively seek out a solution. I am thankful for threads like these where those parameters can be discussed.
Nicely said.2 -
This statement is kind of dear to me because it always seems to be called out as a motivation for claiming an addiction. To be excused means to be relieved of consequences. What was the nature of the call in? In this thread, the question is asked to determine reasons or causes. Saying one is addicted does not excuse them of consequences any more than not knowing how much they were eating, or bad time management does. It is just a slightly different problem for them which may require slightly different solutions. Notice that I said different and not harder. We all have our own journey. Knowing the parameters of the problems we face enables us to effectively seek out a solution. I am thankful for threads like these where those parameters can be discussed.
Apparently a report has just been released that said there would be 7 million more people in the UK suffering from obesity related diseases over the next couple of decades. The call-in was debating whether people believed it was a problem and what the causes & potential fixes might be. There were inputs from various interested parties (obesity groups, Cancer Research etc.) as well as members of the general public on the phone with all sorts of points of view including proposed fixes such as:
1) Bringing back rationing
2) Having the government buying all schoolkids a bike and making them ride to school
Quite a few people called in to talk about their own obesity issues and quite a few were saying it was the governments fault for not giving good advice, or the fault of food companies for the type of food they sold, or schools for not educating children etc. Only one lady said "it was my fault for not understanding how much I was eating" and pretty much all the others were blaming other factors for their obesity.
One of the discussion points was in fact around whether obesity itself was a disease. Interesting question and possibly not a straightforward answer.4 -
We all know that we are overweight because we consume more calories than we burn. This thread is discussing "why"? If it were so simplistic then we wouldn't struggle with losing the weight.
My point was really that if people are blaming outside factors for being overweight then perhaps it gives them a reason not to do anything about it themselves.4 -
This statement is kind of dear to me because it always seems to be called out as a motivation for claiming an addiction. To be excused means to be relieved of consequences. What was the nature of the call in? In this thread, the question is asked to determine reasons or causes. Saying one is addicted does not excuse them of consequences any more than not knowing how much they were eating, or bad time management does. It is just a slightly different problem for them which may require slightly different solutions. Notice that I said different and not harder. We all have our own journey. Knowing the parameters of the problems we face enables us to effectively seek out a solution. I am thankful for threads like these where those parameters can be discussed.
Apparently a report has just been released that said there would be 7 million more people in the UK suffering from obesity related diseases over the next couple of decades. The call-in was debating whether people believed it was a problem and what the causes & potential fixes might be. There were inputs from various interested parties (obesity groups, Cancer Research etc.) as well as members of the general public on the phone with all sorts of points of view including proposed fixes such as:
1) Bringing back rationing
2) Having the government buying all schoolkids a bike and making them ride to school
Quite a few people called in to talk about their own obesity issues and quite a few were saying it was the governments fault for not giving good advice, or the fault of food companies for the type of food they sold, or schools for not educating children etc. Only one lady said "it was my fault for not understanding how much I was eating" and pretty much all the others were blaming other factors for their obesity.
One of the discussion points was in fact around whether obesity itself was a disease. Interesting question and possibly not a straightforward answer.
Thanks for the context. I think a lot of that falls along political lines with regard to responsibilities of Government vs Freedom of the people.1 -
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We all know that we are overweight because we consume more calories than we burn. This thread is discussing "why"? If it were so simplistic then we wouldn't struggle with losing the weight.
My point was really that if people are blaming outside factors for being overweight then perhaps it gives them a reason not to do anything about it themselves.
If I figure out answers I can make adjustments. If I don't know why then I cannot.2 -
We all know that we are overweight because we consume more calories than we burn. This thread is discussing "why"? If it were so simplistic then we wouldn't struggle with losing the weight.
My point was really that if people are blaming outside factors for being overweight then perhaps it gives them a reason not to do anything about it themselves.
If I figure out answers I can make adjustments. If I don't know why then I cannot.
Do you really believe someone blaming the government for not giving them enough education on food or blaming food companies for making high-calorie food, as the people in this radio show were, is looking for answers?1 -
My problem was college and the reward after I studied ;movies or video game. I called that stuplifing time; not a real word but my brain needed a break from thinking. I spent pretty much the whole day sitting.To top that off I was slamming Mountain Dew (3 20oz a day) and the vending machine because I didn't have time to make myself a decent meal (worse excuse ever! ) Its summer time; I am addicted to water now( it's been a lest two weeks since I have had pop or any fast food). I walk everyday even its just for 15 mins. Anxiety and depression has gone away. I am making time. I became addicted to the thought of taking care of myself, but the action, I didn't have the time. I do and I prioritize now. I get more done today because the excuses,well, don't really make since anymore.
P.S.
I have lost 8 lbs since May 19th with the small changes I have made. I am an average person. I work and I am a single mom. I think looking at the excuses and seeing it for what they truly are means a growth in a personality. I am responsible over my body and my mind therefore the excuses I have had in the past is just poor reasoning on my part. If something is not working then try something else. This sounds gross, but a wise man once said" only a dog goes back to its vomit!" Proverbs.1 -
I had a couple of hours drive to get to a client site this morning and while driving there was a phone-in show about obesity (because of a recent report highlighting an expected increase in obesity related illness in the UK in the next decade or so). What struck me about the phone in was that pretty much everyone that called in who was obese justified it one way or another - usually saying it was because of a medical condition. Just one lady called in and admitted that her being overweight was just simply because she was eating more than she thought (and she mentioned she realised that when she started tracking her food intake on MFP). Now while I'm sure that there are cases where a medical situation will be a factor it did sound like it many cases the excuses were just that - excuses.
I'm technically obese (current BMI is 31) and while I suppose I could justify it based on workload or work related stress the simple truth is that I'm overweight because I've been eating more calories that I'd been burning. The bottom line is that I can control my eating, I can exercise and I can make time for exercise - so solving the issue is entirely under my control - and I suspect most people are just like me.
This statement is kind of dear to me because it always seems to be called out as a motivation for claiming an addiction. To be excused means to be relieved of consequences. What was the nature of the call in? In this thread, the question is asked to determine reasons or causes. Saying one is addicted does not excuse them of consequences any more than not knowing how much they were eating, or bad time management does. It is just a slightly different problem for them which may require slightly different solutions. Notice that I said different and not harder. We all have our own journey. Knowing the parameters of the problems we face enables us to effectively seek out a solution. I am thankful for threads like these where those parameters can be discussed.
I agree that my situation isn't any "harder" than others. Actually I don't have trouble maintaining, so I actually have it easier than many. I do have difficulty LOSING weight which I perceive is not an issue for most people.0 -
mskessler89 wrote: »We all know that we are overweight because we consume more calories than we burn. This thread is discussing "why"? If it were so simplistic then we wouldn't struggle with losing the weight.
My point was really that if people are blaming outside factors for being overweight then perhaps it gives them a reason not to do anything about it themselves.
If I figure out answers I can make adjustments. If I don't know why then I cannot.
Do you really believe someone blaming the government for not giving them enough education on food or blaming food companies for making high-calorie food, as the people in this radio show were, is looking for answers?
I wasn't replying to that part about the government. I believe government shouldn't be overly involved in forcing people to drive bikes to school or rationing etc.2 -
I'm not against people saying they are addicted to certain foods. But I don't think that addiction (or compulsion or whatever your favorite word is) is the answer to the question, I think it's part of the question.
I'm interested in WHY some people have such a strong reaction and others don't. After reading all of this, my guess is some are either more sensitive to hunger signals like ghrelin and/or have something different about their neurotransmitters that causes them more distress than average when exercising self control in the presence of a food temptation; or, alternatively, causes them more pleasure than average when partaking of particularly tempting foods.
So that still leaves the question, if the above is true, HOW does that happen? Why to some people and not others? Are some born that way, or is it catalysed by experiences in their formative years? Or something else entirely?
To be clear I only suggested it as an answer in some cases. I think the answer as to why some and not others falls to genetics.
Oh I don't mind the discussion on addiction (as long as it doesn't get bogged down by semantics)! You've made some thought provoking points.
I think part of it may be genetic too, and for some people (maybe ones who had traumatic events in childhood) it's become a deeply ingrained coping mechanism. For others, well, I'm sure it's highly personal for each one.
I think it's fantastic that the conversation hasn't boiled down to lack of will power, self control issues, laziness, etc. (In before someone says that those are the reasons why some people are fat!!1!)
I realized my previous comment might have came off with an unintended tone. I was in a bit of a hurry. I just wanted to emphasize and acknowledge that there are likely other causes and other aspects of the problem besides addiction for different people.
In other words, I don't believe that addiction is the only thing drives the desire and need to consume extra calories than needed.1 -
amanda000002014 wrote: »My problem was college and the reward after I studied. I spent pretty much the whole day sitting. To top that off I was slamming Mountain Dew (3 20oz a day) and the vending machine because I didn't have time to make myself a decent meal. Its summer time; I am addicted to water now( it's been a lest two weeks since I have had pop or any fast food). I walk everyday even its just for 15 mins. Anxiety and depression has gone away. I am making time. I think I was addicted to having the idea to take better care of myself then I was doing it.
My sister in law and two nieces were addicted to Mountain Dews. One of the nieces started to get migraines. They went away once she quit. Congrats on getting rid of the Mountain Dew cravings and exercising! Getting out of the depression is a big deal too
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mskessler89 wrote: »We all know that we are overweight because we consume more calories than we burn. This thread is discussing "why"? If it were so simplistic then we wouldn't struggle with losing the weight.
My point was really that if people are blaming outside factors for being overweight then perhaps it gives them a reason not to do anything about it themselves.
If I figure out answers I can make adjustments. If I don't know why then I cannot.
Do you really believe someone blaming the government for not giving them enough education on food or blaming food companies for making high-calorie food, as the people in this radio show were, is looking for answers?
I wasn't replying to that part about the government. I believe government shouldn't be overly involved in forcing people to drive bikes to school or rationing etc.
But that was the point of @niblue's post - a lot of people look for external reasons why they're overweight because they aren't necessarily ready to admit it's because they're overeating, and those reasons often come back to our current societal constructs.
I don't pass judgment on that at all - we live in a society set up around an abundance of food, and admitting you're overeating and you're in complete control of it comes with difficult decisions. Do you still go out with friends? Do you change your whole family's diet, or just your own? Do you have to give up your favorite foods, things that comfort you and bring back happy memories? It's a hard thing to confront. It would be a lot easier if we'd all get proper education and eat healthy from childhood and not have a desire for Doritos. But that's not how it is, and unfortunately shifting the blame doesn't help anyone's current predicament with obesity.1 -
mskessler89 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »We all know that we are overweight because we consume more calories than we burn. This thread is discussing "why"? If it were so simplistic then we wouldn't struggle with losing the weight.
My point was really that if people are blaming outside factors for being overweight then perhaps it gives them a reason not to do anything about it themselves.
If I figure out answers I can make adjustments. If I don't know why then I cannot.
Do you really believe someone blaming the government for not giving them enough education on food or blaming food companies for making high-calorie food, as the people in this radio show were, is looking for answers?
I wasn't replying to that part about the government. I believe government shouldn't be overly involved in forcing people to drive bikes to school or rationing etc.
But that was the point of @niblue's post - a lot of people look for external reasons why they're overweight because they aren't necessarily ready to admit it's because they're overeating, and those reasons often come back to our current societal constructs.
I don't pass judgment on that at all - we live in a society set up around an abundance of food, and admitting you're overeating and you're in complete control of it comes with difficult decisions. Do you still go out with friends? Do you change your whole family's diet, or just your own?
* Do you have to give up your favorite foods, things that comfort you and bring back happy memories? It's a hard thing to confront.
It would be a lot easier if we'd all get proper education and eat healthy from childhood and not have a desire for
*Doritos.
*But that's not how it is, and unfortunately shifting the blame doesn't help anyone's current predicament with obesity.
*I do give up my favorite comfort foods for most meals. I haven't had mac n cheese in months and try to stay away from ice cream, etc. But I do eat them on occasion and then get right back to my normal diet.
*Doritos are a food that I can't eat in moderation, so I cut them out mostly except for a couple times a year.
*I'm fortunate that I came from a background of primarily healthy meals. We weren't allowed a lot of snacking between meals and our food was portioned out by our mom. She was really thin (5'4" and 109 pounds). My dad is a hearty eater but has never been obese. I've never been obese and dieted before I got too far overweight.0 -
The snack food companies are notorious for adding flavor enhancers and obesogens to their products. We weren't meant to eat the chemicals and additives nor things like high fructose corn syrup which has been isolated out of the whole kernel and lacks enzymes fiber, etc that would have helped normal digestion. I have read that high fructose corn syrup gets stored quickly and can easily be converted to fat. (That may be a fable though. I have heard it as word of mouth and have not looked at scientific articles about it yet.)1
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I think the reasons why we overeat is because people don't know what true portion sizes are. Plus people love to snack. We went to a parade for Memorial Day and people were snacking on candy and chips for long time before the parade started. They munch on snacks before and during movies. We went to see car racing and people were eating and snacking. At a baseball game people were eating lots and drinking plenty. We go to carnivals/fairs and people eat cotton candy, candy apples, fried dough, french fries... Americans snack a bunch more now than we did years ago. IMO.4
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I think the reasons why we overeat is because people don't know what true portion sizes are. Plus people love to snack. We went to a parade for Memorial Day and people were snacking on candy and chips for long time before the parade started. They munch on snacks before and during movies. We went to see car racing and people were eating and snacking. At a baseball game people were eating lots and drinking plenty. We go to carnivals/fairs and people eat cotton candy, candy apples, fried dough, french fries... Americans snack a bunch more now than we did years ago. IMO.
Yup! People do snack more now than when I was a kid. Instead of expecting people (and kids) to wait and behave nicely until the next meal, they snack.
You go to the park for a couple hours, you bring snacks. Kids play soccer for 40 minutes, there is snacks. You run errands for a couple of hours, there's a snack.
Kids are growing up not knowing how to wait until the next meal.
Everything turns into an eating opportunity.4 -
I think the reasons why we overeat is because people don't know what true portion sizes are. Plus people love to snack. We went to a parade for Memorial Day and people were snacking on candy and chips for long time before the parade started. They munch on snacks before and during movies. We went to see car racing and people were eating and snacking. At a baseball game people were eating lots and drinking plenty. We go to carnivals/fairs and people eat cotton candy, candy apples, fried dough, french fries... Americans snack a bunch more now than we did years ago. IMO.
Yup! People do snack more now than when I was a kid. Instead of expecting people (and kids) to wait and behave nicely until the next meal, they snack.
You go to the park for a couple hours, you bring snacks. Kids play soccer for 40 minutes, there is snacks. You run errands for a couple of hours, there's a snack.
Kids are growing up not knowing how to wait until the next meal.
Everything turns into an eating opportunity.
I see it at beaches too! People bring coolers of food and eat for a good portion of the time they arr under their umbrellas. The kids run back and forth from the water to eat snacks and drink soda.
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I think the reasons why we overeat is because people don't know what true portion sizes are. Plus people love to snack. We went to a parade for Memorial Day and people were snacking on candy and chips for long time before the parade started. They munch on snacks before and during movies. We went to see car racing and people were eating and snacking. At a baseball game people were eating lots and drinking plenty. We go to carnivals/fairs and people eat cotton candy, candy apples, fried dough, french fries... Americans snack a bunch more now than we did years ago. IMO.
Yup! People do snack more now than when I was a kid. Instead of expecting people (and kids) to wait and behave nicely until the next meal, they snack.
You go to the park for a couple hours, you bring snacks. Kids play soccer for 40 minutes, there is snacks. You run errands for a couple of hours, there's a snack.
Kids are growing up not knowing how to wait until the next meal.
Everything turns into an eating opportunity.
I see it at beaches too! People bring coolers of food and eat for a good portion of the time they arr under their umbrellas. The kids run back and forth from the water to eat snacks and drink soda.
but snacking isn't the issue...nor is the food that is being snacked on.
When I go to the beach the food in the cooler is our food for the day...meaning lunch and dinner...maybe even breakfast.
And I snack at the movies too...or at a ball game.
This is normal behaviour that has always happened since the advent of movies, baseball and beaches for fun.2 -
mskessler89 wrote: »mskessler89 wrote: »We all know that we are overweight because we consume more calories than we burn. This thread is discussing "why"? If it were so simplistic then we wouldn't struggle with losing the weight.
My point was really that if people are blaming outside factors for being overweight then perhaps it gives them a reason not to do anything about it themselves.
If I figure out answers I can make adjustments. If I don't know why then I cannot.
Do you really believe someone blaming the government for not giving them enough education on food or blaming food companies for making high-calorie food, as the people in this radio show were, is looking for answers?
I wasn't replying to that part about the government. I believe government shouldn't be overly involved in forcing people to drive bikes to school or rationing etc.
But that was the point of @niblue's post - a lot of people look for external reasons why they're overweight because they aren't necessarily ready to admit it's because they're overeating, and those reasons often come back to our current societal constructs.
I don't pass judgment on that at all - we live in a society set up around an abundance of food, and admitting you're overeating and you're in complete control of it comes with difficult decisions.
Good points. They might not even be aware of how much or that they are eating too much.
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KetoneKaren wrote: »I smoked for a time in my youth but never craved a cigarette & didn't look back when I decided to stop smoking.
My son had to take heavy duty pain medicines after a serious accident and as his pain lessened, he tapered off & really did not have any problem discontinuing the medicine even though he took high doses for several weeks.
A friend used hydrocodone once and craved it from that day forward and almost lost his job twice over using. It made him feel brave & euphoric. Most people feel tired & foggy on hydrocodone.
My dad never did completely give up cigarettes, my mom put them down and never wanted another.
Our brains, reward centers, biochemical makeups, whatever, are certainly not all the same.
true that...what's funny with me is as a former "addict" and giving up something (just speaking about cigs here) the though of having one now makes me want to vomit...any other time I had quit...I craved them at certain times...like getting into a car to drive..with coffee...with a beer and so I eventually started again...
so given this I can concede that people can react differently to certain types of food due to brain chemistry...but I still won't agree that it's addiction...and if they can find a healthy substitute (like I did) for that food perhaps they could lose the weight.
So were you addicted to cigarettes or not? Am I understanding you correctly that you consider dependency and addiction as two separate things, but you think that people can become dependent on certain foods but not addicted to them? That would be a new perspective to me and I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on it if so. Also, you don't believe cigarettes lead to dependence, is that correct?
Just asking for clarification.
Yes I was addicted to cigarettes...I believe once the chemicals are gone from your body after you quit that there are habits that still remain that will cause a form of dependency...smokers smoke during stressful times a lot...or with morning coffee and even after not smoking for 20 years (if there isn't something else taking it's place) people crave a smoke...
I do consider dependency and addiction different.
I think that the way people react to foods physically can be different than others...
I think that sometimes with things like food there are habits that are formed and a dependency based on how it makes us feel...food used as comfort will be palatable...probably high in fat and calories...it won't be a salad.
Sounds like you are talking about physical vs psychological addiction. Yes, the nicotine leaves your system within three days. Physical withdrawal symptoms subside shortly after that. But you still have to cope with the remaining psychological addiction. Dependence is just that - a physical dependence on a substance, iow needing to have it in order to feel "normal" physically. The dependence is over after appx 72 hours of being nicotine free. Psychological "dependence" is just another word for psychological addiction.
Seems you are confusing dependence with psychological addiction. Psychological addiction is just as real as physical addiction, and is actually the harder component for most people to break, regardless of the substance in question. That's why there is such a high rate of relapse for addicts - even after they've beaten the physical addiction and dependence, the psychological addiction remains, often for a lifetime.
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