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I should also note I have seen some very muscular people lifting at our PF. "Lunk" according to what they have posted means grunting real loud, or dropping/clanging the weights, so as to show off or annoy others. They are trying to get people to be courteous and not d-bags. But like I said I have never heard the alarm in my current location. "not judging" means you don't snark the other customers or tell them what to do, once again, just don't be a d-bag. It's not a place to run around flexing with a selfie stick lol, you go there to work out is all.
I suppose I should be a proud d-bag then. I grunt on my heavy set and sometimes quite loudly on a 1RM or last rep on my AMRAP.
Usually pretty quiet on my deadlifts but I guess a d-bag when I am at a heavier set and the plates bang a bit on the ground during my reps.
I guess it is possible that bodybuilders who flex and take pictures managed to get the their physique by not going to work out, but I doubt it.
So does judging include calling people d-bags for normally acceptable gym behavior? I might have to recalibrate my d-bag meter.
And yes, I admit I am being a d-bag.1 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Sassie_Lassie wrote: »
The operative word there is "IF." It's common knowledge that your typical American already consumes way too much when it comes to processed, highly caloric food. Not to mention that your typical out-of-shape joe -- PF's target clientele -- is generally less informed when it comes to calories and the amount of effort required to burn them off.Sassie_Lassie wrote: »thefuzz1290 wrote: »If you can't afford another gym, then do what you need to. However, make sure you ignore the pizza and bagel days, and pass up the free candy at the front desk. Find a smaller, independent gym. I bet you'll find more encouragement there, then PF.
Why does one need to ignore the pizza and bagels? If it fits in your daily calories then have at it.
Please explain what the difference is between having pizza and bagels or getting a big protein shake at the protein bars some gyms have that probably has as many if not more calories than the pizza and bagels. Is it ok because the shake is "healthy"?
Do you seriously not understand how protein works in building muscle, and how eating bagels (unless they are smothered in piles of lox) is not terribly helpful for hitting a high protein macro level? This kind of proves people's points about PF.
I don't get your point. When my PF offers, I eat a multi grain bagel and Asiago cheese (they are from Panera) and I have no problem hitting my protein goals for that day. Nutritional needs are very individualized.
"Do You Even Lift?"
In your case I note that you are a serious runner, but not a lifter, and naturally nutritional needs are individualized, but the split on PF attitudes comes down to DYEL.
To spell it out in greater detail, the poster seemed puzzled as to why serious lifting gyms offered protein shakes, thereby demonstrating ignorance of the basic function of the macro, while very vocally advocating for PF. I suspect PF is not going to be much of a help in educating her, and also suspect there are probably many hapless PF members diligently lifting weights and, sadly, not getting the results they should because the nutrition is just not there. Admittedly I am basing this on comment threads where grown-*kitten* men also mistake smith machines for squat racks, so my previous agnosticism on PF is tipping more and more into amusement over the spectacle.
As a woman who lifts, I find it to be a very challenging macro. On my lifting days, between a 12-oz sirloin and two protein shakes, and a lot of other food, I can generally get in the ballpark of hitting my protein macro. Shakes are particularly helpful on days when I think I am going to barf if I have to see another chicken breast.
And...in the spirit of lifting, I think we can all enjoy these words of broscience wisdom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OloLS5kTrVs
I do lift but my lifting is for different reasons and therefore I have different needs. I can still easily get 200g of protein eating pizza and bagels and fit all my macros. My point is the assumption should not be that everyone that uses PF needs to just focus on lifting the heaviest they can possibly lift. Understandable if that is your goal, then PF is not for you. I also understand comments about the marketing. What I will never get is putting everyone in the same category or saying that you can't hit your macros eating pizza or bagels.
I am sorry, could you show me exactly where I say this, since this is the argument you are trying to frame up? I am afraid you have misread or misinterpreted what I have written. While you're doing that, please show me where I say people need to "focus on lifting the heaviest they can possibly lift." I am obviously a fan of progressive resistance + proper nutrition + proper knowledge. Seems a hard position to argue against. (SURELY a PF advocate wouldn't be deliberately obtuse to set up a strawman argument? No!)
The poster was equating bagels with protein shakes. That's kind of like a would-be construction worker equating a ball peen hammer with a roofing hammer. "I just don't understand why this roofing hammer exists and why Lowe's would sell it!" Sure, you can drive roofing nails with a ball peen, or insinuate that all hammers are the same, because calories or whatnot, but anyone who is a serious craftsman would also know exactly what to think of you. Of course this works both ways--anyone confused that a marathoner is fueling with high carbs is also likely a fool. Regardless, it seems like it is a kindness to clue someone in that roofing hammers--and protein shakes--exist for a reason.
You are correct. I am not looking at all of the other stuff you said. Protein shakes or very different from bagels. I was very focused on this specific statement.jmbmilholland wrote: »Do you seriously not understand how protein works in building muscle, and how eating bagels (unless they are smothered in piles of lox) is not terribly helpful for hitting a high protein macro level? This kind of proves people's points about PF.
I don't know what it proves about PF and I don't need lox on my bagels for enough protein to help rebuild my muscles. I can enjoy a bagel and still get enough protein otherwise based on my protein goals
You're running and training for half marathons, so you can eat the whole plate of bagels, hit your macro, and probably still be under your TDEE. Might be going out on a limb, but I am betting that likely makes you a special snowflake in the PF universe. I can and do eat bagels, too (even the extra-evil Cinnamon Crunch, which IS the debbil); I average a TDEE of around 2500 so I have plenty of room for them. That still doesn't change their lack of general usefulness for hitting a 155 g protein macro on a workout day while maintaining a slight deficit, although they are better than a kick in the pants. For not many more calories than a 13 g protein bagel, I can get 51 g protein with 3 scoops of powder in a glass of milk.
However...that vocal PF advocate was setting up a false equivalency between a plate of *free* bagels at a gym where much of the clientele likely lacks knowledge on proper nutrition and protein shakes *sold* at a serious weightlifting gym with serious trainers. She is implying that the criticism about putting plates of free food out in front of potentially overweight, not terribly sophisticated, struggling clientele is moot. She thus reveals herself to be not terribly sophisticated, and hence the sweet spot demographic for PF. That is what I was addressing--not if one should eat bagels or not. Of course, one SHOULD eat bagels, because they are delicious.
I've experimented with setting my diary to eat a whole day of cinnamon raisin bagels and I could hit my fiber and adequate protein goals - sodium is the killer. I'll rather have a bagel than a glass of milk with protein powder so I might be over sensitive in that area
However, I get where you are coming from. I'm no special snowflake in my PF though. As you pointed out there is a clear distinction of those who know what they are doing and make it work for them at a lower price point, and those who may get a membership, go one or two times, hang on to an incline treadmill or stair stepper for dear life, spend time texting on the strength machines, and then the bagel/pizza/tootsie rolls destroys all the work they have done. PF does have it's limitations.0 -
20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Sassie_Lassie wrote: »
The operative word there is "IF." It's common knowledge that your typical American already consumes way too much when it comes to processed, highly caloric food. Not to mention that your typical out-of-shape joe -- PF's target clientele -- is generally less informed when it comes to calories and the amount of effort required to burn them off.Sassie_Lassie wrote: »thefuzz1290 wrote: »If you can't afford another gym, then do what you need to. However, make sure you ignore the pizza and bagel days, and pass up the free candy at the front desk. Find a smaller, independent gym. I bet you'll find more encouragement there, then PF.
Why does one need to ignore the pizza and bagels? If it fits in your daily calories then have at it.
Please explain what the difference is between having pizza and bagels or getting a big protein shake at the protein bars some gyms have that probably has as many if not more calories than the pizza and bagels. Is it ok because the shake is "healthy"?
Do you seriously not understand how protein works in building muscle, and how eating bagels (unless they are smothered in piles of lox) is not terribly helpful for hitting a high protein macro level? This kind of proves people's points about PF.
I don't get your point. When my PF offers, I eat a multi grain bagel and Asiago cheese (they are from Panera) and I have no problem hitting my protein goals for that day. Nutritional needs are very individualized.
"Do You Even Lift?"
In your case I note that you are a serious runner, but not a lifter, and naturally nutritional needs are individualized, but the split on PF attitudes comes down to DYEL.
To spell it out in greater detail, the poster seemed puzzled as to why serious lifting gyms offered protein shakes, thereby demonstrating ignorance of the basic function of the macro, while very vocally advocating for PF. I suspect PF is not going to be much of a help in educating her, and also suspect there are probably many hapless PF members diligently lifting weights and, sadly, not getting the results they should because the nutrition is just not there. Admittedly I am basing this on comment threads where grown-*kitten* men also mistake smith machines for squat racks, so my previous agnosticism on PF is tipping more and more into amusement over the spectacle.
As a woman who lifts, I find it to be a very challenging macro. On my lifting days, between a 12-oz sirloin and two protein shakes, and a lot of other food, I can generally get in the ballpark of hitting my protein macro. Shakes are particularly helpful on days when I think I am going to barf if I have to see another chicken breast.
And...in the spirit of lifting, I think we can all enjoy these words of broscience wisdom:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OloLS5kTrVs
I do lift but my lifting is for different reasons and therefore I have different needs. I can still easily get 200g of protein eating pizza and bagels and fit all my macros. My point is the assumption should not be that everyone that uses PF needs to just focus on lifting the heaviest they can possibly lift. Understandable if that is your goal, then PF is not for you. I also understand comments about the marketing. What I will never get is putting everyone in the same category or saying that you can't hit your macros eating pizza or bagels.
I am sorry, could you show me exactly where I say this, since this is the argument you are trying to frame up? I am afraid you have misread or misinterpreted what I have written. While you're doing that, please show me where I say people need to "focus on lifting the heaviest they can possibly lift." I am obviously a fan of progressive resistance + proper nutrition + proper knowledge. Seems a hard position to argue against. (SURELY a PF advocate wouldn't be deliberately obtuse to set up a strawman argument? No!)
The poster was equating bagels with protein shakes. That's kind of like a would-be construction worker equating a ball peen hammer with a roofing hammer. "I just don't understand why this roofing hammer exists and why Lowe's would sell it!" Sure, you can drive roofing nails with a ball peen, or insinuate that all hammers are the same, because calories or whatnot, but anyone who is a serious craftsman would also know exactly what to think of you. Of course this works both ways--anyone confused that a marathoner is fueling with high carbs is also likely a fool. Regardless, it seems like it is a kindness to clue someone in that roofing hammers--and protein shakes--exist for a reason.
You are correct. I am not looking at all of the other stuff you said. Protein shakes or very different from bagels. I was very focused on this specific statement.jmbmilholland wrote: »Do you seriously not understand how protein works in building muscle, and how eating bagels (unless they are smothered in piles of lox) is not terribly helpful for hitting a high protein macro level? This kind of proves people's points about PF.
I don't know what it proves about PF and I don't need lox on my bagels for enough protein to help rebuild my muscles. I can enjoy a bagel and still get enough protein otherwise based on my protein goals
You're running and training for half marathons, so you can eat the whole plate of bagels, hit your macro, and probably still be under your TDEE. Might be going out on a limb, but I am betting that likely makes you a special snowflake in the PF universe. I can and do eat bagels, too (even the extra-evil Cinnamon Crunch, which IS the debbil); I average a TDEE of around 2500 so I have plenty of room for them. That still doesn't change their lack of general usefulness for hitting a 155 g protein macro on a workout day while maintaining a slight deficit, although they are better than a kick in the pants. For not many more calories than a 13 g protein bagel, I can get 51 g protein with 3 scoops of powder in a glass of milk.
However...that vocal PF advocate was setting up a false equivalency between a plate of *free* bagels at a gym where much of the clientele likely lacks knowledge on proper nutrition and protein shakes *sold* at a serious weightlifting gym with serious trainers. She is implying that the criticism about putting plates of free food out in front of potentially overweight, not terribly sophisticated, struggling clientele is moot. She thus reveals herself to be not terribly sophisticated, and hence the sweet spot demographic for PF. That is what I was addressing--not if one should eat bagels or not. Of course, one SHOULD eat bagels, because they are delicious.
I've experimented with setting my diary to eat a whole day of cinnamon raisin bagels and I could hit my fiber and adequate protein goals - sodium is the killer. I'll rather have a bagel than a glass of milk with protein powder so I might be over sensitive in that area
However, I get where you are coming from. I'm no special snowflake in my PF though. As you pointed out there is a clear distinction of those who know what they are doing and make it work for them at a lower price point, and those who may get a membership, go one or two times, hang on to an incline treadmill or stair stepper for dear life, spend time texting on the strength machines, and then the bagel/pizza/tootsie rolls destroys all the work they have done. PF does have it's limitations.
Now I'm kind of mad at you, because after thinking about it all afternoon I want the cinnamon crunch bagel AND the shake.
So much better than the sad leftover Subway I am ignoring in my lunch bag. 1 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Sassie_Lassie wrote: »
The operative word there is "IF." It's common knowledge that your typical American already consumes way too much when it comes to processed, highly caloric food. Not to mention that your typical out-of-shape joe -- PF's target clientele -- is generally less informed when it comes to calories and the amount of effort required to burn them off.Sassie_Lassie wrote: »thefuzz1290 wrote: »If you can't afford another gym, then do what you need to. However, make sure you ignore the pizza and bagel days, and pass up the free candy at the front desk. Find a smaller, independent gym. I bet you'll find more encouragement there, then PF.
Why does one need to ignore the pizza and bagels? If it fits in your daily calories then have at it.
Please explain what the difference is between having pizza and bagels or getting a big protein shake at the protein bars some gyms have that probably has as many if not more calories than the pizza and bagels. Is it ok because the shake is "healthy"?
Do you seriously not understand how protein works in building muscle, and how eating bagels (unless they are smothered in piles of lox) is not terribly helpful for hitting a high protein macro level? This kind of proves people's points about PF.
I don't get your point. When my PF offers, I eat a multi grain bagel and Asiago cheese (they are from Panera) and I have no problem hitting my protein goals for that day. Nutritional needs are very individualized.
"Do You Even Lift?"
In your case I note that you are a serious runner, but not a lifter, and naturally nutritional needs are individualized, but the split on PF attitudes comes down to DYEL.
To spell it out in greater detail, the poster seemed puzzled as to why serious lifting gyms offered protein shakes, thereby demonstrating ignorance of the basic function of the macro, while very vocally advocating for PF. I suspect PF is not going to be much of a help in educating her, and also suspect there are probably many hapless PF members diligently lifting weights and, sadly, not getting the results they should because the nutrition is just not there. Admittedly I am basing this on comment threads where grown-*kitten* men also mistake smith machines for squat racks, so my previous agnosticism on PF is tipping more and more into amusement over the spectacle.
As a woman who lifts, I find it to be a very challenging macro. On my lifting days, between a 12-oz sirloin and two protein shakes, and a lot of other food, I can generally get in the ballpark of hitting my protein macro. Shakes are particularly helpful on days when I think I am going to barf if I have to see another chicken breast.
And...in the spirit of lifting, I think we can all enjoy these words of broscience wisdom:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OloLS5kTrVs
I do lift but my lifting is for different reasons and therefore I have different needs. I can still easily get 200g of protein eating pizza and bagels and fit all my macros. My point is the assumption should not be that everyone that uses PF needs to just focus on lifting the heaviest they can possibly lift. Understandable if that is your goal, then PF is not for you. I also understand comments about the marketing. What I will never get is putting everyone in the same category or saying that you can't hit your macros eating pizza or bagels.
I am sorry, could you show me exactly where I say this, since this is the argument you are trying to frame up? I am afraid you have misread or misinterpreted what I have written. While you're doing that, please show me where I say people need to "focus on lifting the heaviest they can possibly lift." I am obviously a fan of progressive resistance + proper nutrition + proper knowledge. Seems a hard position to argue against. (SURELY a PF advocate wouldn't be deliberately obtuse to set up a strawman argument? No!)
The poster was equating bagels with protein shakes. That's kind of like a would-be construction worker equating a ball peen hammer with a roofing hammer. "I just don't understand why this roofing hammer exists and why Lowe's would sell it!" Sure, you can drive roofing nails with a ball peen, or insinuate that all hammers are the same, because calories or whatnot, but anyone who is a serious craftsman would also know exactly what to think of you. Of course this works both ways--anyone confused that a marathoner is fueling with high carbs is also likely a fool. Regardless, it seems like it is a kindness to clue someone in that roofing hammers--and protein shakes--exist for a reason.
You are correct. I am not looking at all of the other stuff you said. Protein shakes or very different from bagels. I was very focused on this specific statement.jmbmilholland wrote: »Do you seriously not understand how protein works in building muscle, and how eating bagels (unless they are smothered in piles of lox) is not terribly helpful for hitting a high protein macro level? This kind of proves people's points about PF.
I don't know what it proves about PF and I don't need lox on my bagels for enough protein to help rebuild my muscles. I can enjoy a bagel and still get enough protein otherwise based on my protein goals
You're running and training for half marathons, so you can eat the whole plate of bagels, hit your macro, and probably still be under your TDEE. Might be going out on a limb, but I am betting that likely makes you a special snowflake in the PF universe. I can and do eat bagels, too (even the extra-evil Cinnamon Crunch, which IS the debbil); I average a TDEE of around 2500 so I have plenty of room for them. That still doesn't change their lack of general usefulness for hitting a 155 g protein macro on a workout day while maintaining a slight deficit, although they are better than a kick in the pants. For not many more calories than a 13 g protein bagel, I can get 51 g protein with 3 scoops of powder in a glass of milk.
However...that vocal PF advocate was setting up a false equivalency between a plate of *free* bagels at a gym where much of the clientele likely lacks knowledge on proper nutrition and protein shakes *sold* at a serious weightlifting gym with serious trainers. She is implying that the criticism about putting plates of free food out in front of potentially overweight, not terribly sophisticated, struggling clientele is moot. She thus reveals herself to be not terribly sophisticated, and hence the sweet spot demographic for PF. That is what I was addressing--not if one should eat bagels or not. Of course, one SHOULD eat bagels, because they are delicious.
I've experimented with setting my diary to eat a whole day of cinnamon raisin bagels and I could hit my fiber and adequate protein goals - sodium is the killer. I'll rather have a bagel than a glass of milk with protein powder so I might be over sensitive in that area
However, I get where you are coming from. I'm no special snowflake in my PF though. As you pointed out there is a clear distinction of those who know what they are doing and make it work for them at a lower price point, and those who may get a membership, go one or two times, hang on to an incline treadmill or stair stepper for dear life, spend time texting on the strength machines, and then the bagel/pizza/tootsie rolls destroys all the work they have done. PF does have it's limitations.
Now I'm kind of mad at you, because after thinking about it all afternoon I want the cinnamon crunch bagel AND the shake. So much better than the sad leftover Subway I am ignoring in my lunch bag.
Hope you had both
On a different note, I did hear the lunk alarm go off this morning. The guy had his head phones on so he probably didn't even hear it 1 -
20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Sassie_Lassie wrote: »
The operative word there is "IF." It's common knowledge that your typical American already consumes way too much when it comes to processed, highly caloric food. Not to mention that your typical out-of-shape joe -- PF's target clientele -- is generally less informed when it comes to calories and the amount of effort required to burn them off.Sassie_Lassie wrote: »thefuzz1290 wrote: »If you can't afford another gym, then do what you need to. However, make sure you ignore the pizza and bagel days, and pass up the free candy at the front desk. Find a smaller, independent gym. I bet you'll find more encouragement there, then PF.
Why does one need to ignore the pizza and bagels? If it fits in your daily calories then have at it.
Please explain what the difference is between having pizza and bagels or getting a big protein shake at the protein bars some gyms have that probably has as many if not more calories than the pizza and bagels. Is it ok because the shake is "healthy"?
Do you seriously not understand how protein works in building muscle, and how eating bagels (unless they are smothered in piles of lox) is not terribly helpful for hitting a high protein macro level? This kind of proves people's points about PF.
I don't get your point. When my PF offers, I eat a multi grain bagel and Asiago cheese (they are from Panera) and I have no problem hitting my protein goals for that day. Nutritional needs are very individualized.
"Do You Even Lift?"
In your case I note that you are a serious runner, but not a lifter, and naturally nutritional needs are individualized, but the split on PF attitudes comes down to DYEL.
To spell it out in greater detail, the poster seemed puzzled as to why serious lifting gyms offered protein shakes, thereby demonstrating ignorance of the basic function of the macro, while very vocally advocating for PF. I suspect PF is not going to be much of a help in educating her, and also suspect there are probably many hapless PF members diligently lifting weights and, sadly, not getting the results they should because the nutrition is just not there. Admittedly I am basing this on comment threads where grown-*kitten* men also mistake smith machines for squat racks, so my previous agnosticism on PF is tipping more and more into amusement over the spectacle.
As a woman who lifts, I find it to be a very challenging macro. On my lifting days, between a 12-oz sirloin and two protein shakes, and a lot of other food, I can generally get in the ballpark of hitting my protein macro. Shakes are particularly helpful on days when I think I am going to barf if I have to see another chicken breast.
And...in the spirit of lifting, I think we can all enjoy these words of broscience wisdom:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OloLS5kTrVs
I do lift but my lifting is for different reasons and therefore I have different needs. I can still easily get 200g of protein eating pizza and bagels and fit all my macros. My point is the assumption should not be that everyone that uses PF needs to just focus on lifting the heaviest they can possibly lift. Understandable if that is your goal, then PF is not for you. I also understand comments about the marketing. What I will never get is putting everyone in the same category or saying that you can't hit your macros eating pizza or bagels.
I am sorry, could you show me exactly where I say this, since this is the argument you are trying to frame up? I am afraid you have misread or misinterpreted what I have written. While you're doing that, please show me where I say people need to "focus on lifting the heaviest they can possibly lift." I am obviously a fan of progressive resistance + proper nutrition + proper knowledge. Seems a hard position to argue against. (SURELY a PF advocate wouldn't be deliberately obtuse to set up a strawman argument? No!)
The poster was equating bagels with protein shakes. That's kind of like a would-be construction worker equating a ball peen hammer with a roofing hammer. "I just don't understand why this roofing hammer exists and why Lowe's would sell it!" Sure, you can drive roofing nails with a ball peen, or insinuate that all hammers are the same, because calories or whatnot, but anyone who is a serious craftsman would also know exactly what to think of you. Of course this works both ways--anyone confused that a marathoner is fueling with high carbs is also likely a fool. Regardless, it seems like it is a kindness to clue someone in that roofing hammers--and protein shakes--exist for a reason.
You are correct. I am not looking at all of the other stuff you said. Protein shakes or very different from bagels. I was very focused on this specific statement.jmbmilholland wrote: »Do you seriously not understand how protein works in building muscle, and how eating bagels (unless they are smothered in piles of lox) is not terribly helpful for hitting a high protein macro level? This kind of proves people's points about PF.
I don't know what it proves about PF and I don't need lox on my bagels for enough protein to help rebuild my muscles. I can enjoy a bagel and still get enough protein otherwise based on my protein goals
You're running and training for half marathons, so you can eat the whole plate of bagels, hit your macro, and probably still be under your TDEE. Might be going out on a limb, but I am betting that likely makes you a special snowflake in the PF universe. I can and do eat bagels, too (even the extra-evil Cinnamon Crunch, which IS the debbil); I average a TDEE of around 2500 so I have plenty of room for them. That still doesn't change their lack of general usefulness for hitting a 155 g protein macro on a workout day while maintaining a slight deficit, although they are better than a kick in the pants. For not many more calories than a 13 g protein bagel, I can get 51 g protein with 3 scoops of powder in a glass of milk.
However...that vocal PF advocate was setting up a false equivalency between a plate of *free* bagels at a gym where much of the clientele likely lacks knowledge on proper nutrition and protein shakes *sold* at a serious weightlifting gym with serious trainers. She is implying that the criticism about putting plates of free food out in front of potentially overweight, not terribly sophisticated, struggling clientele is moot. She thus reveals herself to be not terribly sophisticated, and hence the sweet spot demographic for PF. That is what I was addressing--not if one should eat bagels or not. Of course, one SHOULD eat bagels, because they are delicious.
I've experimented with setting my diary to eat a whole day of cinnamon raisin bagels and I could hit my fiber and adequate protein goals - sodium is the killer. I'll rather have a bagel than a glass of milk with protein powder so I might be over sensitive in that area
However, I get where you are coming from. I'm no special snowflake in my PF though. As you pointed out there is a clear distinction of those who know what they are doing and make it work for them at a lower price point, and those who may get a membership, go one or two times, hang on to an incline treadmill or stair stepper for dear life, spend time texting on the strength machines, and then the bagel/pizza/tootsie rolls destroys all the work they have done. PF does have it's limitations.
Now I'm kind of mad at you, because after thinking about it all afternoon I want the cinnamon crunch bagel AND the shake. So much better than the sad leftover Subway I am ignoring in my lunch bag.
Hope you had both
On a different note, I did hear the lunk alarm go off this morning. The guy had his head phones on so he probably didn't even hear it
What was the offense?0 -
mochachichi wrote: »thefuzz1290 wrote: »Sassie_Lassie wrote: »
Please explain what the difference is between having pizza and bagels or getting a big protein shake at the protein bars some gyms have that probably has as many if not more calories than the pizza and bagels. Is it ok because the shake is "healthy"?
1 slice of pepperoni pizza from Little Caesars (where the PF near me gets their pizza):
280 calories
31 Carbs
13 Protein
11 Fat
1 14oz Muscle Milk protein shake:
230 calories
11 Carbs
25 Protein
9 Fat
So you're saying that the pizza has the perfect 3:1 Carb to protein post workout nutrition ratio? Cool! I normally have chocolate milk after a workout but glad to know pizza fits the bill too
That's not how things work. While Pizza might be a good mid cycling-ride snack due to the carbs and fat, it makes a HORRIBLE recovery snack. That's not how things work.
LOL...nothing at all wrong with pizza and it can actually be a great meal sans the bacon or pepperoni. The eyes may see pizza but but the chemistry lab inside your body only sees carbohydrates, amino acids and triglycerides. I personally have chocolate milk afterward because liquid absorbs a little quicker and I don't have time to eat a balanced meal (which pizza could absolutely be a part of) until much later. If I can eat a balanced meal in a timely manner after a workout or game then I forgo the chocolate heaven in a glass and just have my meal.
That is actually how it works
0 -
Carbohydrates are a easy to break down source of fuel. Unburnt excessive Carbs are broke down to glucose and stored as fat, in the liver and muscles. Which can be burned at a later time. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
I don't have a problem with Pizza, Beagles, Doughnuts or any other pastry based item. But I don't see the purpose of carb loading post workouts.0 -
Carbohydrates are a easy to break down source of fuel. Unburnt excessive Carbs are broke down to glucose and stored as fat, in the liver and muscles. Which can be burned at a later time. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
I don't have a problem with Pizza, Beagles, Doughnuts or any other pastry based item. But I don't see the purpose of carb loading post workouts.
Hey CincyNeid...It's not really "carb loading" (as you would call what a marathon runner might do to prepare for a race) After a workout or a game think of it more as carb replenishing. Your muscles have burned off their stores of glycogen post workout. What your body really needs is to replenish those stores...which is why I always advise my clients and athletes to get something into their body post activity. Now, if your activity is just taking a walk around the block then no...skip the snack, but post workout....oh man, that's where the magic happens.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »jmbmilholland wrote: »Sassie_Lassie wrote: »
The operative word there is "IF." It's common knowledge that your typical American already consumes way too much when it comes to processed, highly caloric food. Not to mention that your typical out-of-shape joe -- PF's target clientele -- is generally less informed when it comes to calories and the amount of effort required to burn them off.Sassie_Lassie wrote: »thefuzz1290 wrote: »If you can't afford another gym, then do what you need to. However, make sure you ignore the pizza and bagel days, and pass up the free candy at the front desk. Find a smaller, independent gym. I bet you'll find more encouragement there, then PF.
Why does one need to ignore the pizza and bagels? If it fits in your daily calories then have at it.
Please explain what the difference is between having pizza and bagels or getting a big protein shake at the protein bars some gyms have that probably has as many if not more calories than the pizza and bagels. Is it ok because the shake is "healthy"?
Do you seriously not understand how protein works in building muscle, and how eating bagels (unless they are smothered in piles of lox) is not terribly helpful for hitting a high protein macro level? This kind of proves people's points about PF.
I don't get your point. When my PF offers, I eat a multi grain bagel and Asiago cheese (they are from Panera) and I have no problem hitting my protein goals for that day. Nutritional needs are very individualized.
"Do You Even Lift?"
In your case I note that you are a serious runner, but not a lifter, and naturally nutritional needs are individualized, but the split on PF attitudes comes down to DYEL.
To spell it out in greater detail, the poster seemed puzzled as to why serious lifting gyms offered protein shakes, thereby demonstrating ignorance of the basic function of the macro, while very vocally advocating for PF. I suspect PF is not going to be much of a help in educating her, and also suspect there are probably many hapless PF members diligently lifting weights and, sadly, not getting the results they should because the nutrition is just not there. Admittedly I am basing this on comment threads where grown-*kitten* men also mistake smith machines for squat racks, so my previous agnosticism on PF is tipping more and more into amusement over the spectacle.
As a woman who lifts, I find it to be a very challenging macro. On my lifting days, between a 12-oz sirloin and two protein shakes, and a lot of other food, I can generally get in the ballpark of hitting my protein macro. Shakes are particularly helpful on days when I think I am going to barf if I have to see another chicken breast.
And...in the spirit of lifting, I think we can all enjoy these words of broscience wisdom:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OloLS5kTrVs
I do lift but my lifting is for different reasons and therefore I have different needs. I can still easily get 200g of protein eating pizza and bagels and fit all my macros. My point is the assumption should not be that everyone that uses PF needs to just focus on lifting the heaviest they can possibly lift. Understandable if that is your goal, then PF is not for you. I also understand comments about the marketing. What I will never get is putting everyone in the same category or saying that you can't hit your macros eating pizza or bagels.
I am sorry, could you show me exactly where I say this, since this is the argument you are trying to frame up? I am afraid you have misread or misinterpreted what I have written. While you're doing that, please show me where I say people need to "focus on lifting the heaviest they can possibly lift." I am obviously a fan of progressive resistance + proper nutrition + proper knowledge. Seems a hard position to argue against. (SURELY a PF advocate wouldn't be deliberately obtuse to set up a strawman argument? No!)
The poster was equating bagels with protein shakes. That's kind of like a would-be construction worker equating a ball peen hammer with a roofing hammer. "I just don't understand why this roofing hammer exists and why Lowe's would sell it!" Sure, you can drive roofing nails with a ball peen, or insinuate that all hammers are the same, because calories or whatnot, but anyone who is a serious craftsman would also know exactly what to think of you. Of course this works both ways--anyone confused that a marathoner is fueling with high carbs is also likely a fool. Regardless, it seems like it is a kindness to clue someone in that roofing hammers--and protein shakes--exist for a reason.
You are correct. I am not looking at all of the other stuff you said. Protein shakes or very different from bagels. I was very focused on this specific statement.jmbmilholland wrote: »Do you seriously not understand how protein works in building muscle, and how eating bagels (unless they are smothered in piles of lox) is not terribly helpful for hitting a high protein macro level? This kind of proves people's points about PF.
I don't know what it proves about PF and I don't need lox on my bagels for enough protein to help rebuild my muscles. I can enjoy a bagel and still get enough protein otherwise based on my protein goals
You're running and training for half marathons, so you can eat the whole plate of bagels, hit your macro, and probably still be under your TDEE. Might be going out on a limb, but I am betting that likely makes you a special snowflake in the PF universe. I can and do eat bagels, too (even the extra-evil Cinnamon Crunch, which IS the debbil); I average a TDEE of around 2500 so I have plenty of room for them. That still doesn't change their lack of general usefulness for hitting a 155 g protein macro on a workout day while maintaining a slight deficit, although they are better than a kick in the pants. For not many more calories than a 13 g protein bagel, I can get 51 g protein with 3 scoops of powder in a glass of milk.
However...that vocal PF advocate was setting up a false equivalency between a plate of *free* bagels at a gym where much of the clientele likely lacks knowledge on proper nutrition and protein shakes *sold* at a serious weightlifting gym with serious trainers. She is implying that the criticism about putting plates of free food out in front of potentially overweight, not terribly sophisticated, struggling clientele is moot. She thus reveals herself to be not terribly sophisticated, and hence the sweet spot demographic for PF. That is what I was addressing--not if one should eat bagels or not. Of course, one SHOULD eat bagels, because they are delicious.
I've experimented with setting my diary to eat a whole day of cinnamon raisin bagels and I could hit my fiber and adequate protein goals - sodium is the killer. I'll rather have a bagel than a glass of milk with protein powder so I might be over sensitive in that area
However, I get where you are coming from. I'm no special snowflake in my PF though. As you pointed out there is a clear distinction of those who know what they are doing and make it work for them at a lower price point, and those who may get a membership, go one or two times, hang on to an incline treadmill or stair stepper for dear life, spend time texting on the strength machines, and then the bagel/pizza/tootsie rolls destroys all the work they have done. PF does have it's limitations.
Now I'm kind of mad at you, because after thinking about it all afternoon I want the cinnamon crunch bagel AND the shake. So much better than the sad leftover Subway I am ignoring in my lunch bag.
Hope you had both
On a different note, I did hear the lunk alarm go off this morning. The guy had his head phones on so he probably didn't even hear it
What was the offense?
It was a guy in a Smith Machine. He didn't drop weights or anything. He was just doing something with the weights/machine that made a lot of unnecessary noise (for about 10-15 seconds). Maybe something was stuck.0 -
mochachichi wrote: »Carbohydrates are a easy to break down source of fuel. Unburnt excessive Carbs are broke down to glucose and stored as fat, in the liver and muscles. Which can be burned at a later time. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
I don't have a problem with Pizza, Beagles, Doughnuts or any other pastry based item. But I don't see the purpose of carb loading post workouts.
Hey CincyNeid...It's not really "carb loading" (as you would call what a marathon runner might do to prepare for a race) After a workout or a game think of it more as carb replenishing. Your muscles have burned off their stores of glycogen post workout. What your body really needs is to replenish those stores...which is why I always advise my clients and athletes to get something into their body post activity. Now, if your activity is just taking a walk around the block then no...skip the snack, but post workout....oh man, that's where the magic happens.
Meal timing is pretty much irrelevant except for advanced trainees i.e athletes and bodybuilders1 -
mochachichi wrote: »Carbohydrates are a easy to break down source of fuel. Unburnt excessive Carbs are broke down to glucose and stored as fat, in the liver and muscles. Which can be burned at a later time. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
I don't have a problem with Pizza, Beagles, Doughnuts or any other pastry based item. But I don't see the purpose of carb loading post workouts.
Hey CincyNeid...It's not really "carb loading" (as you would call what a marathon runner might do to prepare for a race) After a workout or a game think of it more as carb replenishing. Your muscles have burned off their stores of glycogen post workout. What your body really needs is to replenish those stores...which is why I always advise my clients and athletes to get something into their body post activity. Now, if your activity is just taking a walk around the block then no...skip the snack, but post workout....oh man, that's where the magic happens.
Meal timing is pretty much irrelevant except for advanced trainees i.e athletes and bodybuilders
Meal timing from a calorie deficit point of view sure. But timing is important for even intermediate trainees. For me, I don't need to carb load but I definitely need a combination of protein+carbs right after a heavy workout - carbs for replenishment, protein for recovery.
2 -
mochachichi wrote: »
Hey CincyNeid...It's not really "carb loading" (as you would call what a marathon runner might do to prepare for a race) After a workout or a game think of it more as carb replenishing. Your muscles have burned off their stores of glycogen post workout. What your body really needs is to replenish those stores...which is why I always advise my clients and athletes to get something into their body post activity. Now, if your activity is just taking a walk around the block then no...skip the snack, but post workout....oh man, that's where the magic happens.
I don't question that. At all. As someone who enjoys cardio/endurance based activities I fully comprehend that.
You and I are on the same page.
However I, personally, see Protein(s) and building blocks being more important than carbs. I would much rather sit down to a plate of grilled chicken, steak, or even a all beef hot dog than a piece of pizza, post workout. And much rather eat the pizza mid workout. To give some aid those muscle that just exerted all that energy, in rebuilding. I will also agree that your metabolism is much higher directly following a workout so it's going to do be as big as an issue as say eating Pizza after Sunday morning church when you've been sitting around for a while. So your body will break it down much faster and process it more effectively.
But that's me.
But we can both agree on, as long you're working out and properly eating... the little things are just details.0 -
I switched to a new Planet Fitness from another gym in my area. The other gym had more cardio equipment, more weights, and heavier weights. But... there is a serious mold problem in the building caused by leaking ceilings over the years and management is not fixing it. I figure it's a matter of time before that gym closes.
I shopped around. I tried four other gyms before going with the PF. I tried an LA Fitness (found the bathrooms were constantly dirty, the hours were so-so, and the price was too high). Checked out the YMCAs. Checked out other $10/month clubs.
PF was the cheapest option, with the best hours, all brand new equipment, and when I looked at it- most of the equipment was exactly the same as the other gyms, only purple. The two other benefits were with the black card, I could bring in friends for free, and I can use any PF in the country. Since I travel a lot, this gave me a place to shower after a road race away from home before I'd make a drive home.
Honestly I feel more comfortable at the PF than I did at my old gym. I felt more judgement there. I also wanted a place that wouldn't have kids running around inside or climbing on the equipment (a YMCA problem where I live). And the staff at my PF keeps the place spotless- something I couldn't say for the other gyms I checked out.
I just make due with the equipment that is there. I've never seen a gym with every single piece of equipment I'd want. I just learned how to modify my workouts to use what they have to achieve what I want. For example there's a some great instructional YouTube videos on doing workouts with Smith machines, so I learned how to make them work for me.
I stay away from the bagels and pizza because I don't eat wheat anyway.0 -
20yearsyounger wrote: »mochachichi wrote: »Carbohydrates are a easy to break down source of fuel. Unburnt excessive Carbs are broke down to glucose and stored as fat, in the liver and muscles. Which can be burned at a later time. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
I don't have a problem with Pizza, Beagles, Doughnuts or any other pastry based item. But I don't see the purpose of carb loading post workouts.
Hey CincyNeid...It's not really "carb loading" (as you would call what a marathon runner might do to prepare for a race) After a workout or a game think of it more as carb replenishing. Your muscles have burned off their stores of glycogen post workout. What your body really needs is to replenish those stores...which is why I always advise my clients and athletes to get something into their body post activity. Now, if your activity is just taking a walk around the block then no...skip the snack, but post workout....oh man, that's where the magic happens.
Meal timing is pretty much irrelevant except for advanced trainees i.e athletes and bodybuilders
Meal timing from a calorie deficit point of view sure. But timing is important for even intermediate trainees. For me, I don't need to carb load but I definitely need a combination of protein+carbs right after a heavy workout - carbs for replenishment, protein for recovery.
2 -
20yearsyounger wrote: »mochachichi wrote: »Carbohydrates are a easy to break down source of fuel. Unburnt excessive Carbs are broke down to glucose and stored as fat, in the liver and muscles. Which can be burned at a later time. I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
I don't have a problem with Pizza, Beagles, Doughnuts or any other pastry based item. But I don't see the purpose of carb loading post workouts.
Hey CincyNeid...It's not really "carb loading" (as you would call what a marathon runner might do to prepare for a race) After a workout or a game think of it more as carb replenishing. Your muscles have burned off their stores of glycogen post workout. What your body really needs is to replenish those stores...which is why I always advise my clients and athletes to get something into their body post activity. Now, if your activity is just taking a walk around the block then no...skip the snack, but post workout....oh man, that's where the magic happens.
Meal timing is pretty much irrelevant except for advanced trainees i.e athletes and bodybuilders
Meal timing from a calorie deficit point of view sure. But timing is important for even intermediate trainees. For me, I don't need to carb load but I definitely need a combination of protein+carbs right after a heavy workout - carbs for replenishment, protein for recovery.
Thanks for posting. Meal timing is maybe the extra 1% the aversge person could do for peak performance.
They would be much better off fixing other parts of their diet, sleep, etc.0 -
I love PF, The lunk alarm is for grunting too loudly, and dropping weights on the floor, granted, it may seem like judging, but at the same time, there is no need to drop weights just so everyone can look over and see you working out. I find it very annoying and distracting.
I also bench and do squats so they have the proper work out machines. I love the stair climber. I also love the price, can't beat it.1 -
tscarelli1 wrote: »I love PF, The lunk alarm is for grunting too loudly, and dropping weights on the floor, granted, it may seem like judging, but at the same time, there is no need to drop weights just so everyone can look over and see you working out. I find it very annoying and distracting.
I also bench and do squats so they have the proper work out machines. I love the stair climber. I also love the price, can't beat it.
so when you are using 100# dumbbell for chest press how do you suggest getting them to the floor?
or how do you quietly put down a one rep max DL?1 -
tscarelli1 wrote: »I love PF, The lunk alarm is for grunting too loudly, and dropping weights on the floor, granted, it may seem like judging, but at the same time, there is no need to drop weights just so everyone can look over and see you working out. I find it very annoying and distracting.
I also bench and do squats so they have the proper work out machines. I love the stair climber. I also love the price, can't beat it.
What's a workout machine for squats?1 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »tscarelli1 wrote: »I love PF, The lunk alarm is for grunting too loudly, and dropping weights on the floor, granted, it may seem like judging, but at the same time, there is no need to drop weights just so everyone can look over and see you working out. I find it very annoying and distracting.
I also bench and do squats so they have the proper work out machines. I love the stair climber. I also love the price, can't beat it.
What's a workout machine for squats?
i am guessing that person is referring to a smith ...??????????1 -
tscarelli1 wrote: »I love PF, The lunk alarm is for grunting too loudly, and dropping weights on the floor, granted, it may seem like judging, but at the same time, there is no need to drop weights just so everyone can look over and see you working out. I find it very annoying and distracting.
I also bench and do squats so they have the proper work out machines. I love the stair climber. I also love the price, can't beat it.
so when you are using 100# dumbbell for chest press how do you suggest getting them to the floor?
or how do you quietly put down a one rep max DL?
You go to another gym besides PF where you are allowed to be noisy when lifting. That's how you do it.0
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