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Forbidden vs not wanting
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For me, knowing what my goals are helps me decide that I don't want to eat something and not longingly crave something. Does this food help me reach my goals (happiness and a feeling of satisfaction from eating is a goal as well as nutritional and weightloss/gain ones)? There's nothing I suppose that I'd consider completely forbidden, except anise or dill, because that crap is nasty.
how dare you speak of dill that way!2 -
I have food intolerances and got "forbidden" food as they simply make me sick for days. Apart from those nothing is forbidden.
I eat low carb during the week as protein makes me fuller, and I generally undereat during the week so at the weekend, anything is fair game. Piece of cake? Ice cream? Wine?
What I do find though is that by not forbidding any food, and I know I can eat it at the weekend as long as I have been good during the week, keeps me in check. I often end up not eating what I craved during the week, make better choices overall. (And before anyone jumps on my lower calorie intake during the week, I eat ALL my weekly calories, I just space them out over the full 7 days)0 -
This isn't "just" semantics. Words have meaning, and we think in concepts. "Forbidden" means, for most of us, denying ourselves something we want. For most of us, this will heighten the desire for it, unless the reasoning for it is good - usually some kind of cultural/religious taboo - jews and muslims go to great lenghts to avoid pork and are seemingly happy about that - or if it makes us immediately sick, like something you are allergic to. Something that may contribute to some kind of diffuse ailment ten years from now, won't create that aversion. (We don't "forbid" ourselves something we don't want, that idea is absurd.)
Having a structure is a good idea. Finding an eating structure that really works with our own preferences and schedule is better. Learning to make good choices is an important life skill, and navigating our current food environment isn't particularly easy and intuitive.
People with good eating structures and people who forbid themselves food, are aiming for the same goal, but the former have a much better chance to succeed than the latter.
My eating habits have evolved through incremental changes, whereas my attitude towards food and eating has gone through a revolution. My whole mindset has become more non-dualistic, which seems to work better with the real world than the either/or frameset I grew up with.
ETA: Finding out what's what and understanding and dealing consciously with the consequences of your actions, but removing guilt and shame from decision making, can make a lot of difference. There are foods that I have an intense lust for, but don't necessarily provide that much pleasure. The stress involved in dealing with those - a by now well-known cycle of expectation, excitement, disappointment and self-blame - is just something I'm not interested in. This doesn't mean that I will never eat it, I may decide to accept, on occasion, when offered, but they are mainly easy accessible and I no longer make an effort to obtain those foods and I certainly don't try to stock up on them in my home anymore.3 -
I do not put forbidden and "just do not want" into the same category. They are just not the same. and no food is forbidden per se because if you just make a choice to choose something over the other does not make that forbidden.. it just makes that a choice..
Not wanting something is just no wanting something.
However a person wants to stack up words, actions and results is their own prerogative. So if word associations and the like is how you need to do it, then by all means do that.1 -
Something forbidden immediately makes us think, I WANT. I choose not to think about food in that way. Years of yoyo dieting and forbidding foods wasn't a good idea long term for me. I enjoy all foods now but I am very good at practising moderation.
If you don't WANT something, then of course, why would you eat it, ( unless it has some necessary nutritional value that you personally NEED) - e.g I don't like avocados, I know they would be good for me, but I choose not to eat them.0 -
Interesting replies. I'm generally not one to nit pick semantics, but the thread about willing to give up a food the rest of your life got me thinking. Nearly everyone said "nothing". There are a lot of foods I used to eat that I don't ever plan to eat again. At one point many of them were things I liked/loved. Some I just ate without conscious thought. They aren't forbidden, I just no longer have the desire to eat them.1
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I absolutely and completely believe that semantics do count when it comes to regulating behaviour
Many personality types rail against the forbidden and look to bend or break those rules. And it becomes reliant on willpower rather than choice.
You see the importance of semantics in child development and in effective treatments for many panic / anxiety disorders
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Interesting replies. I'm generally not one to nit pick semantics, but the thread about willing to give up a food the rest of your life got me thinking. Nearly everyone said "nothing". There are a lot of foods I used to eat that I don't ever plan to eat again. At one point many of them were things I liked/loved. Some I just ate without conscious thought. They aren't forbidden, I just no longer have the desire to eat them.
I think once we get to a point of health and fitness and maintenance we all have foods like that.
for example jujubs...used to eat them a lot...now eh...do I plan on eating them again...no but if I get an urge yah.
Ice cream is another one for me...it's not high on my list of things I will use my calories for but if the urge strikes yes.0 -
I have no problem with "forbidding" (for right now) foods that I will not moderate and foods that that make me crazy not eating them. I think it's self torture to have those foods around when there's a good chance I will want to overeat them. The foods are not satisfying to me in the amount that will fit in my goals.
Not forbidding those foods keep me from losing weight. Knowing they are in the list of foods I am not eating right now makes me feel comfortable.
The only thing that I won't ever eat (drink) again is regular soda except for 1 can on Christmas Day. Otherwise the forbidden foods will be eaten again, just not right now. In the future I expect that it will be the same. Some foods will be forbidden sometimes or I will gain weight.
Nothing wrong with this. If there is a food(s) that hinder your progress, why not cut them out? For me, the foods on the forbidden list do not provide anything towards my nutrition goals. They are empty calories that leave me hungry so I end up eating even more over goal.1 -
I have no problem with "forbidding" (for right now) foods that I will not moderate and foods that that make me crazy not eating them. I think it's self torture to have those foods around when there's a good chance I will want to overeat them. The foods are not satisfying to me in the amount that will fit in my goals.
Not forbidding those foods keep me from losing weight. Knowing they are in the list of foods I am not eating right now makes me feel comfortable.
The only thing that I won't ever eat (drink) again is regular soda except for 1 can on Christmas Day. Otherwise the forbidden foods will be eaten again, just not right now. In the future I expect that it will be the same. Some foods will be forbidden sometimes or I will gain weight.
Nothing wrong with this. If there is a food(s) that hinder your progress, why not cut them out? For me, the foods on the forbidden list do not provide anything towards my nutrition goals. They are empty calories that leave me hungry so I end up eating even more over goal.
one question tho...when you reintroduce those foods that prevent weight loss...won't they cause weight gain later?1 -
I have no problem with "forbidding" (for right now) foods that I will not moderate and foods that that make me crazy not eating them. I think it's self torture to have those foods around when there's a good chance I will want to overeat them. The foods are not satisfying to me in the amount that will fit in my goals.
Not forbidding those foods keep me from losing weight. Knowing they are in the list of foods I am not eating right now makes me feel comfortable.
The only thing that I won't ever eat (drink) again is regular soda except for 1 can on Christmas Day. Otherwise the forbidden foods will be eaten again, just not right now. In the future I expect that it will be the same. Some foods will be forbidden sometimes or I will gain weight.
Nothing wrong with this. If there is a food(s) that hinder your progress, why not cut them out? For me, the foods on the forbidden list do not provide anything towards my nutrition goals. They are empty calories that leave me hungry so I end up eating even more over goal.
one question tho...when you reintroduce those foods that prevent weight loss...won't they cause weight gain later?
No because if I find I am overeating, those food will move back to the forbidden list. The list changes depending on my calorie goal and what I want to eat. For a long time Oreos couldn't be around. Right now I could care less about them. If I find myself overeating them, they will go back to the forbidden list.
My weight is something that will need to be watched on a daily basis forever. Maintenance is the same as losing in my mind. The calories will have to be counted forever. Accepting this has been key for me. How much I eat is always going to be dependent on how much I have already eaten.0 -
I forbid LIVER in any foods I eat. Just because I hate liver.
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If "not wanting" is a lie you're telling yourself to prevent yourself from eating something you actually DO want -- then NO, I don't think it will work.
My heart down to the core of my being will always want to eat the cupcake, no matter what lies or mind tricks I try to play with myself.
Besides, I think denial is a losing proposition and moderation is where it's at. That mindset helped me lose about 60 pounds and keep it off for over four years now.0 -
It's simply a matter of personality and the way you think. I have zero problems with a simplistic good/bad, right/wrong sort of thinking. It's just shorthand. A way to go from A straight to Z without all of the steps in between.
Know yourself and go from there.5 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »It's simply a matter of personality and the way you think. I have zero problems with a simplistic good/bad, right/wrong sort of thinking. It's just shorthand. A way to go from A straight to Z without all of the steps in between.
Know yourself and go from there.
Exactly!
While CICO is how to lose and maintain for all, everyone has to figure out how to apply the principle so that it fits in their life. Definitely not a one-size-fits all.1 -
Didn't we already have a better version of this debate?4
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »It's simply a matter of personality and the way you think. I have zero problems with a simplistic good/bad, right/wrong sort of thinking. It's just shorthand. A way to go from A straight to Z without all of the steps in between.
Know yourself and go from there.
I have a problem with this black&white thinking, but that's just because I want everybody to be happy
As long as good/bad is working for them, I don't care. But we often see in here that people aren't happy with the approach they have chosen, but are still reluctant to try something else. But then again, many people get pleasure from the feeling of sacrifice and pain, and of talking about how much they struggle and suffer, so yeah, personality and mindset is everything.0 -
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kommodevaran wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »It's simply a matter of personality and the way you think. I have zero problems with a simplistic good/bad, right/wrong sort of thinking. It's just shorthand. A way to go from A straight to Z without all of the steps in between.
Know yourself and go from there.
I have a problem with this black&white thinking, but that's just because I want everybody to be happy
As long as good/bad is working for them, I don't care. But we often see in here that people aren't happy with the approach they have chosen, but are still reluctant to try something else. But then again, many people get pleasure from the feeling of sacrifice and pain, so yeah, personality and mindset is everything.
Do they? Sacrifice and pain sounds hard to maintain but whatever gets the job done, I guess.0 -
If "not wanting" is a lie you're telling yourself to prevent yourself from eating something you actually DO want -- then NO, I don't think it will work.
My heart down to the core of my being will always want to eat the cupcake, no matter what lies or mind tricks I try to play with myself.
Besides, I think denial is a losing proposition and moderation is where it's at.
I think this is 100% true for some people. And 100% wrong for others.
It's also possible to want and not want food simultaneously.3
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