July (2016) Running Challenge

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  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    edited July 2016
    5512bf wrote: »
    @Stoshew71 - I hear you on the time issue. Getting out of bed at 4:45 to hit the street at 5:15 and run in the dark almost an hour really sucks. I've however read that a good 10-12 miler trumps (2) 6-7 milers every time as far as adaptations goes, concerning marathons at least. I've used similar double structures in half training's as you describe, early hard/late recovery. I typically only train for half's in the winter/early spring when daylight is at a premium so that structure works well since 5-8 mile runs are typically a good distance for training. I've always struggled with the 21-25 mile mark of marathons, mostly because I like to eat and carry 10 lbs extra with me. This training I've really focused on the middle distance & long runs as the key workouts and don't think breaking them up will provide the adaptations and training stimulus I'm looking for. I might try to do my Thur recovery run Wed evening and use Thur morning as a bonus XC Day next week as see how it goes, assuming I only have one adult beverage after the beer run.

    Except that I don't run 2x 6-7 milers.

    I started out as breaking a 10 miler up into 6 or 7 in the morning & 4-6 miles in the afternoon. But as time went on, that 6 or 7 miles in the morning crept right back up to 9 miles. And from doing that once or at most twice a week, to now 2 to 3x a week.

    And I kind of focus on my December marathon all year long. There's a recovery period in late December and a building back up in January. But then the goal is to maintain high mileage and build for the rest of the months going into next December. Summers are tough though as I may need to cut back more often as I acclumate to the heat. I also do a string of races from the end of the March through early June which causes minor interuptions into my training as I have to do mini tapers and mini recoveries before/after each race. But I am very selective about my races and I know that my main focus is my December marathon. I don't do any "speed work" and I don't bother with any 5Ks. Mostly HMs and 1 10K and 1 8K in the spring. I kind of use those HMs as part of a fun way to get an intense long run in.

    Once I finally get my BQ (hopefully this December), my focus will most likely change. But right now, it's that BQ that motivates me to get up early and keep on doing this consistently.
  • mrs_madison_keane
    mrs_madison_keane Posts: 45 Member
    I'm off to a slow start since we went on vacation July 1-8, but I am back on track now and still looking to meet my 100 mile goal! Yay for setting the bar high and crushing goals! :)

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  • tinyc82
    tinyc82 Posts: 21 Member
    edited July 2016
    Total up 11th July: 11.4km
    8th july: 4.2km
    11th July: 4.3km (last c25k session)
    12th July: 5km
    Total: 24.9km
    Left: 20.1km
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    @Stoshew71 your explanation of your daily doubles runs right into the conundrum I have. Being a slower running, my Morning 9 milers required a start time of 0400-0415 to get it in so OI could shower and get the rest of the family up in time to go to work. I want to extend my Tuesday runs out to maybe 10 miles....but therein lies the problem, I'm getting up at 0345 to do 9 miles, and it might not seem like much, but getting up an extra 10-15 minutes early to fit in that extra mile just does not seem right.

    Because of that, I'm thinking of either, doing a DD on Thursday, with my speedwork in the morning, and an easy like 4-5 miles in the evening, or adding a Friday run. Alternatively, I could make my Wednesday into another longer run, but with a 8-9 mile run on Tuesday, and speedwork on Thursday, part of me thinks I should leave that one shorter....

    Or I could sandwich the tempo intervals/cruise intervals in the middle of a longer run on Thursday. I'm working toward doing 3x2 miles at TI pace for those, so a 1-2 mile warm up and cool down would stretch those runs longer That would push me out to 8 miles, plus whatever during recoveryjogs between intervals for those runs. ultimate goal is to get my long runs out to 14-16 miles so when I run HMs I'll have more endurance/stamina so I can run them stronger....

    I know you are following one of the cookie cutter plans, but allow me to suggest some things.

    I am not sure how you define "speed work", but if it involves VO2max type of reps, I wouldn't bother.
    In fact, I didn't incorporate any tempo work until I had almost 2 years under my belt. However, I was probably running a lot of my runs just under a tempo effort (before I started understanding the 80/20 idealology).

    Mileage building should be your main focus. Speedwork for you should be based on fartleks and bursts (strides), and focus more on hill training. Just like you slowly build up mileage per week, slowly add in feet of elevation gain per week. This would require you to smartly modify whatever plan you are following. So if your plan calls for a tempo cruises, maybe do a route with a lot of elevation in it and throw some fartlek intervals in. 2 days a week incorporate 4-6 short bursts into your more easy runs. A burst would be about 20-30 seconds at around a 5K race pace.

    Just as a suggestion.
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    edited July 2016
    @Stoshew71 your explanation of your daily doubles runs right into the conundrum I have. Being a slower running, my Morning 9 milers required a start time of 0400-0415 to get it in so OI could shower and get the rest of the family up in time to go to work. I want to extend my Tuesday runs out to maybe 10 miles....but therein lies the problem, I'm getting up at 0345 to do 9 miles, and it might not seem like much, but getting up an extra 10-15 minutes early to fit in that extra mile just does not seem right.

    Because of that, I'm thinking of either, doing a DD on Thursday, with my speedwork in the morning, and an easy like 4-5 miles in the evening, or adding a Friday run. Alternatively, I could make my Wednesday into another longer run, but with a 8-9 mile run on Tuesday, and speedwork on Thursday, part of me thinks I should leave that one shorter....

    Or I could sandwich the tempo intervals/cruise intervals in the middle of a longer run on Thursday. I'm working toward doing 3x2 miles at TI pace for those, so a 1-2 mile warm up and cool down would stretch those runs longer That would push me out to 8 miles, plus whatever during recoveryjogs between intervals for those runs. ultimate goal is to get my long runs out to 14-16 miles so when I run HMs I'll have more endurance/stamina so I can run them stronger....

    One more huge suggestion. Get a running stroller. That way you are not limited with your time. Take your little man out with you for a run during the day, and you can even get a little extra resistance that will make you stronger.


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  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    thanks @Stoshew71 I'm "using" a plan out of Greg McMillan's book, though, in reality, I'm just borrowing ideas. as far as speed work, I should have said (using his terminology) stamina work, Tempo intervals and some stuff for LT, not really any VO2 Max stuff. Hilly runs are a must this time around, next HM is more vertical, lots of rolling hills too, so I'll be planning 1 hill day a week, 8-10 reps up and down...not a lot of routes that offer really good elevation without repeats here.

    I hate to admit it, but doing 1-2 2 mile intervals at TI pace (around 9:04-9:22 pace) with 4 minute recovery jogs is really fun, which is the only reason I'm wanting to keep those in my rotation.....

    Base mileage is the priority though, and I'm working on a rough schedule of my own for the next 10 weeks in training for the HM. Main goal is to get the mileage in so I can run 14 mile Long runs 1-2 times this training cycle...lots of ideas bounding around in my head, and I work better with a general plan of how each week looks.

    General idea is:

    M- Rest
    T- Longer Easy run (7-9 miles)
    W Easy run (4-5 miles)
    Thursday- Hills/Fartlek/Tempo intervals...TBD...probably more hills
    Friday- Rest- Though considering putting in another easy run
    Sat Long run (looking for minimum of 10 miles for this coming training cycle if I can make the % work)
    Sun- Easy recovery run 4-5 miles

  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    @MNLittleFinn making it fun is very important. So I guess as long as it doesn't interfere with your main goals, then go for it.
  • AdrianChr92
    AdrianChr92 Posts: 567 Member
    edited July 2016
    I'm with @Stoshew71 in that speedwork like intervals with low rest or 4 min hard 1 slow aren't a great idea unless you know what your're doing. This are one of the hardest workouts and you will burn if you keep doing it week after week. I believe running at tempo pace (and being careful to not run faster) is the best bang for your buck you can get. If you really want to add some faster workouts do repeats which are basically intervals with longer rest like 400 run 400 jog. These will end fast and you have enough rest so it's not hard on the body so their focus is more on running economy than vo2max (which you don't even hit)

    Again if there was only one day in the week I could do a workout that would be a tempo run. And as always do your strides

    @MNLittleFinn

    Your plan is similar to what I am doing. I planned my mileage around my long run and workouts and filled the rest with easy miles. I'm training for a HM in the beginning of October. I'll be doing around 5 pure speed workouts this year. I also plan to be doing something different in my long run every few weeks like running a progressive one or doing it at marathon pace

    My week looks something like this

    M - off
    T - repeats or intervals
    W - easy
    T - easy
    F - Tempo
    S - easy
    S - Long Run
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    I think I'm just thinking about this too much because today's run was so great, after taking time off, and running Sat and Sun, I'm on edge now, having "only" run 6 miles this morning. Tomorrow is another easy day, and Thursday I am racing (not really though)with my brother in a very flat 5 miler.
  • TattooedDolphinGirl78
    TattooedDolphinGirl78 Posts: 5,214 Member
    @skippygirlsmom Love the comic strip!!! lol That's how I feel on Sundays! :smiley:
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,234 Member
  • skippygirlsmom
    skippygirlsmom Posts: 4,433 Member
    @ddmom0811 I forgot say earlier that Skip's coach told her to stop drinking cold/ice water after her runs and drink more of a room temperature water it will help the body cool down faster, also stopping any type of headache.
    @lporter229 and @kristinegift I'm going to get the shuffle. I put the cord through my shirt now too. I hate a flapping cord. thanks
  • 9voice9
    9voice9 Posts: 693 Member
    @_nikkiwolf_ Cool! Nice to know someone who's done one in the past. It's making my decision a little easier to make I think.
    I've done one, too. My only peeve about it is that (at least in the one I ran) the colours are not actually dyes, and while they have a nice white shirt that you can wear, you can't wash it, or you lose all the colour. My research did not point to any method to make them colour-fast.... So the shirt is still in the garage, unwearable.
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    @ddmom0811 I forgot say earlier that Skip's coach told her to stop drinking cold/ice water after her runs and drink more of a room temperature water it will help the body cool down faster, also stopping any type of headache.
    Interesting. Not sure if it is for this reason or not, but a few years back I started drinking water at more of a room temperature (whatever temp it arrives at) simply because I heard that it can take longer to absorb when it is cold and the body tries to warm it up first. I honestly don't know if that is really true, but since then I'm just lazy and just grab some water. Doesn't bother me one bit. Some people though need their water COLD. I guess I'm just not one of them.
  • TattooedDolphinGirl78
    TattooedDolphinGirl78 Posts: 5,214 Member
    @9voice9 I just took lots of pictures and washed mine. :smile:
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    @ddmom0811 I forgot say earlier that Skip's coach told her to stop drinking cold/ice water after her runs and drink more of a room temperature water it will help the body cool down faster, also stopping any type of headache.
    Interesting. Not sure if it is for this reason or not, but a few years back I started drinking water at more of a room temperature (whatever temp it arrives at) simply because I heard that it can take longer to absorb when it is cold and the body tries to warm it up first. I honestly don't know if that is really true, but since then I'm just lazy and just grab some water. Doesn't bother me one bit. Some people though need their water COLD. I guess I'm just not one of them.

    I heard the same thing growing up. I keep a case of water in my trunk for running. Of course, there's no case there now... since I'm not running. :no_mouth: