What is going on with all the cops being shot
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bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »didn't more white people get killed by cops in 2015 than any other race anyhow?
at least in the US. there was some kinda big brouhaha with the washington post themselves sponsoring the study if i remember right.
i've always assumed most cops are only capable of seeing blue. and considering the sheer amount of coke theft from the evidence lockers, can you blame them?
You have to look at that in terms of percentage of population, not raw numbers.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-police-shootings-race-20160711-story.html
...But data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times as great as the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.
You're only controlling for one variable, the next step would then be to control for crime rates based on race. You're assuming that crime rates (and any subsequent encounters with police) are proportional - they're not.
I'm not familiar with crime rates based on race. But if rates were higher for blacks, would this still be ok?
I don't think anyone on this thread is saying there aren't problems. There are bad cops; good cops can make mistakes in the heat of the moment. I think we all agree that in cases where criminal behavior can be proven, the individual should be punished.
I'm just pointing out an obvious flaw in your statistical analysis - and using bad statistics in support of inflammatory rhetoric is not helping work toward a solution.
The majority of posts on page 1 don't even acknowledge the problem.
I still don't see what crime rates based on race have to do with shooting an unarmed man in the back.0 -
Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.2
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kshama2001 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »didn't more white people get killed by cops in 2015 than any other race anyhow?
at least in the US. there was some kinda big brouhaha with the washington post themselves sponsoring the study if i remember right.
i've always assumed most cops are only capable of seeing blue. and considering the sheer amount of coke theft from the evidence lockers, can you blame them?
You have to look at that in terms of percentage of population, not raw numbers.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-police-shootings-race-20160711-story.html
...But data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times as great as the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.
You're only controlling for one variable, the next step would then be to control for crime rates based on race. You're assuming that crime rates (and any subsequent encounters with police) are proportional - they're not.
I'm not familiar with crime rates based on race. But if rates were higher for blacks, would this still be ok?
I don't think anyone on this thread is saying there aren't problems. There are bad cops; good cops can make mistakes in the heat of the moment. I think we all agree that in cases where criminal behavior can be proven, the individual should be punished.
I'm just pointing out an obvious flaw in your statistical analysis - and using bad statistics in support of inflammatory rhetoric is not helping work toward a solution.
The majority of posts on page 1 don't even acknowledge the problem.
I still don't see what crime rates based on race have to do with shooting an unarmed man in the back.
You're the one that brought statistics into it.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »PurringMyrrh wrote: »Thanks for a genuine answer! Although, I'm not sure where you gathered I was misinformed. I never stated specific crime statistics. Whether it happened 7.8 times per 100,000 people in 2013 and 6.2 times per 100,000 people now, doesn't negate the fact it's still happening all over the country on almost a daily basis. Five people shot and eight robberies in Oakland alone last night. Another found murdered in his hotel room in Sacramento.That's just two cities in a huge state amongst many states. I guarentee that just didn't happen only here in NorCal either. I'm sure I could Google and find all sorts of other incidents throughout the states just from this last weekend, but the majority of those will only have a few people and a bouquet of flowers at the crime scene.
You're welcome.
You might be shocked to learn that Oakland and Sacramento are 80 miles apart. Go check the map if you don't believe me. These two cities and a few other stories you've heard don't constitute "all over the country."
The reason there aren't reporters at crime scenes when the crime wasn't committed by police ... well, I already explained that one to you and you thanked me for it. So I'm a little surprised to see you beating the dead horse again, and so soon.
And I'll beat it again. My recent response to you was only regarding being misinformed about murders happening all over the country on a regular basis. I live in NorCal (56 miles from Sacramento and 135 miles from Oakland) so that's where I started. I also looked randomly at Maine, Oregon, Florida, Minnasota, and Kansas and found extremely recent cases of murder/violent crime there as well. GoogleNews any state with "murder" "shooting" "killing" etc. within the last week and it can be found.0 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »didn't more white people get killed by cops in 2015 than any other race anyhow?
at least in the US. there was some kinda big brouhaha with the washington post themselves sponsoring the study if i remember right.
i've always assumed most cops are only capable of seeing blue. and considering the sheer amount of coke theft from the evidence lockers, can you blame them?
You have to look at that in terms of percentage of population, not raw numbers.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-police-shootings-race-20160711-story.html
...But data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times as great as the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.
You're only controlling for one variable, the next step would then be to control for crime rates based on race. You're assuming that crime rates (and any subsequent encounters with police) are proportional - they're not.
Thats correct , Look at The FBI Crime stats, You need to look at all of them , you just can't cherry pick what stats fit what ever view you want. That's why they can be so deceiving to some and paint a distorted picture.
I agree- the Post tried shuffling the cards saying, well blacks are more likely to be shot, despite whites being killed in higher numbers, without mentioning that more blacks are involved in crime according to the feds at least.
shady journalism.
It's actually not. There are more blacks involved in crimes because officers arrest black people or stop them at a higher rate than white people. Many departments have taught to profile so if they are looking out for black people to commit a crime they are going to miss out and ignore the white people or let them off with a warning. So it's a variable you can't rely on because it's flawed and not accurate. Also, while FBI stats are informative, they aren't complete because there is no standard way in the country people collect crime data. Chicago doesn't even send their crime stats to the FBI as well as many other major cities.
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bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »didn't more white people get killed by cops in 2015 than any other race anyhow?
at least in the US. there was some kinda big brouhaha with the washington post themselves sponsoring the study if i remember right.
i've always assumed most cops are only capable of seeing blue. and considering the sheer amount of coke theft from the evidence lockers, can you blame them?
You have to look at that in terms of percentage of population, not raw numbers.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-police-shootings-race-20160711-story.html
...But data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times as great as the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.
You're only controlling for one variable, the next step would then be to control for crime rates based on race. You're assuming that crime rates (and any subsequent encounters with police) are proportional - they're not.
I'm not familiar with crime rates based on race. But if rates were higher for blacks, would this still be ok?
I don't think anyone on this thread is saying there aren't problems. There are bad cops; good cops can make mistakes in the heat of the moment. I think we all agree that in cases where criminal behavior can be proven, the individual should be punished.
I'm just pointing out an obvious flaw in your statistical analysis - and using bad statistics in support of inflammatory rhetoric is not helping work toward a solution.
The majority of posts on page 1 don't even acknowledge the problem.
I still don't see what crime rates based on race have to do with shooting an unarmed man in the back.
You're the one that brought statistics into it.
I responded to this post:_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »didn't more white people get killed by cops in 2015 than any other race anyhow?
at least in the US. there was some kinda big brouhaha with the washington post themselves sponsoring the study if i remember right.
i've always assumed most cops are only capable of seeing blue. and considering the sheer amount of coke theft from the evidence lockers, can you blame them?0 -
get angry and shoot cops or kids or blacks that all you lot do Americayou all should be ashamed y'all_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »[quoe="_A_Real_Mouthful;37135939"]
No are kids in danger of being shot I know my kids are safe put the guns down you mugs_incogNEATo_ wrote: »
u 'avin a giggle mate a'll wreck u i sware on me mum
You bes leave me mum out of this er thread boye! She be sailin on the high seas... argh.
Cause. Pirates.
Aweigh then, ya startin' maaaaaaaaate?[/quote]
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
I hadn't noticed all the posts justifying violence - please quote them.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »bennettinfinity wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »didn't more white people get killed by cops in 2015 than any other race anyhow?
at least in the US. there was some kinda big brouhaha with the washington post themselves sponsoring the study if i remember right.
i've always assumed most cops are only capable of seeing blue. and considering the sheer amount of coke theft from the evidence lockers, can you blame them?
You have to look at that in terms of percentage of population, not raw numbers.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-police-shootings-race-20160711-story.html
...But data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.
According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.
U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times as great as the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.
You're only controlling for one variable, the next step would then be to control for crime rates based on race. You're assuming that crime rates (and any subsequent encounters with police) are proportional - they're not.
I'm not familiar with crime rates based on race. But if rates were higher for blacks, would this still be ok?
I don't think anyone on this thread is saying there aren't problems. There are bad cops; good cops can make mistakes in the heat of the moment. I think we all agree that in cases where criminal behavior can be proven, the individual should be punished.
I'm just pointing out an obvious flaw in your statistical analysis - and using bad statistics in support of inflammatory rhetoric is not helping work toward a solution.
The majority of posts on page 1 don't even acknowledge the problem.
I still don't see what crime rates based on race have to do with shooting an unarmed man in the back.
You're the one that brought statistics into it.
I responded to this post:_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »didn't more white people get killed by cops in 2015 than any other race anyhow?
at least in the US. there was some kinda big brouhaha with the washington post themselves sponsoring the study if i remember right.
i've always assumed most cops are only capable of seeing blue. and considering the sheer amount of coke theft from the evidence lockers, can you blame them?
Then I believe that we've come full circle.1 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »I'll throw this out there.... if the police tell me to stop, I stop. If they tell me to not move, I don't move.
tbf though- didn't that one black guy basically do what he was told? guy told the cop he had a LTC, cop said don't move, guy raised his hands where the officer could see, and so the cop emptied his gun into him?
Which one? Walter Scott ran. The guy selling DVD's fought back. Not sure about the guy in the car.
yeah castile- see above. idk about the other ones, but Castile seemed to do everything correctly and still got murdered. if that's the way it really went down i hope the officer goes to prison or the electric chair.
I agree. In Castile's situation, I'm still wondering why they didn't render aid to him after he was shot. Or even his girlfriend. Still bugs me that she was so Ben Stein about.
the not rendering aid part is what makes me the angriest about it. i could buy the officer didn't mean to execute the guy. take his badge, take his gun, give him some time in prison to think about it etc, but the not rendering aid bit makes me want to see him on death row.
how do you not mean to pull your trigger 5, I repeat, 5 times?!
not to mention shooting into a vehicle with a small child in the back.1 -
Sugar_Pill wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
Where ya gonna go, champ?
It largely depends but there are a few good choices, but if the country descends into chaos those who can will leave. I don't expect it to happen, but anyone who thinks this country is immune from unfortunate events is fooling himself or herself. I am worried about that we are witnessing, both in terms of the violence and in terms of the political rhetoric. The alternative is to go down with the ship and my recent ancestors left Europe for similar reasons.2 -
Sugar_Pill wrote: »
get angry and shoot cops or kids or blacks that all you lot do Americayou all should be ashamed y'all_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »Sugar_Pill wrote: »[quoe="_A_Real_Mouthful;37135939"]
No are kids in danger of being shot I know my kids are safe put the guns down you mugs_incogNEATo_ wrote: »
u 'avin a giggle mate a'll wreck u i sware on me mum
You bes leave me mum out of this er thread boye! She be sailin on the high seas... argh.
Cause. Pirates.
Aweigh then, ya startin' maaaaaaaaate?
I shot a water ballon out of a sling shot at my kids this AM.
Totes ashamed.
You're an ignorant fella aintcha?!
Damn I miss being a kid.1 -
I'm proud of y'all, mang! This thread has actually been pretty civil compared to how I thought it would turn out. Six pages? I'd have never guessed.6
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kshama2001 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Oh, look, uneducated and delusional people from different groups and backgrounds still hate each other. I like the idea of prosecuting bad cops, supporting good cops, enforcing laws against murder, and supporting equal application of laws. We can either work to improve these concepts, or just burn it all down. I'll continue to keep my passport at the ready. You all keep justifying violence of one type or another.
I hadn't noticed all the posts justifying violence - please quote them.
That wasn't directed at a specific comment but the tone is there and this isn't the first thread of its kind. Your own post came very close and this thread is showing the sides. You're welcome to explain why you're not condoning violence when you say the shootings didn't happen in a vacuum. The last thing we need is a tit for tat where violent actors get celebrated for acting for their group and innocents are murdered in "retaliation." I'm truly hoping cooler heads prevail and prosecutions pursued both against bad cops and against those attacking cops generally.1 -
_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »toned_thugs_n_harmony wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »_A_Real_Mouthful wrote: »I'll throw this out there.... if the police tell me to stop, I stop. If they tell me to not move, I don't move.
tbf though- didn't that one black guy basically do what he was told? guy told the cop he had a LTC, cop said don't move, guy raised his hands where the officer could see, and so the cop emptied his gun into him?
Which one? Walter Scott ran. The guy selling DVD's fought back. Not sure about the guy in the car.
yeah castile- see above. idk about the other ones, but Castile seemed to do everything correctly and still got murdered. if that's the way it really went down i hope the officer goes to prison or the electric chair.
I agree. In Castile's situation, I'm still wondering why they didn't render aid to him after he was shot. Or even his girlfriend. Still bugs me that she was so Ben Stein about.
the not rendering aid part is what makes me the angriest about it. i could buy the officer didn't mean to execute the guy. take his badge, take his gun, give him some time in prison to think about it etc, but the not rendering aid bit makes me want to see him on death row.
how do you not mean to pull your trigger 5, I repeat, 5 times?!
not to mention shooting into a vehicle with a small child in the back.
i'm not defending him- he definitely executed the guy- i'm saying, i could buy that it wasn't racially motivated, but was instead him reacting to the presence of a gun, which would indicate it was inexperience and lack of training, and so send him to jail for years. but the not rendering aid bit makes me think it was more deliberate for whatever reason and so he should get the death penalty, assuming it all really went down the way it seems.
Ok, then I agree!
sorry, I need to leave this thread...I knew Philando personally so all this bs makes me pretty freakin pissed.2
This discussion has been closed.
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