All calories may not be equal
Replies
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earthakin66 wrote: »Has anyone else read the book "Always Hungry"? It really explains everything that I have always felt intuitively. What if he is right about not all calories being equal? That different foods (and therefore calories) biologically impact us in different ways?
The bolded part seems very much like a "duh!" statement to me. Are there people who believe that all foods biologically impact us in the same way?
As for calories being equal it depends on what you mean. As a unit of measurement a calorie is a calorie. But I suspect he means how calories affect us once eaten and then yeah, there are differences.3 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Just a thought on my previous post.
If there are newbies who want to start counting calories, it should be strongly suggested to them, at least for the first month or so, that they only purchase foods where there can be no possible way of screwing up the calorie count.
A can of tuna fish, two eggs, pre-packaged frozen burgers on a bun, a can of soup, an ice cream bar (as opposed to scooping ice cream from a container), a pre-packaged burrito, etc. Just about anything where you can "leave your brain at home" when counting.
I have never read ANYBODY suggest this incredible simplification of the process.
Because, to be truly accurate, they'd still have to weigh the food. Nothing would be gained by buying premade, premeasured food if you still have to measure it yourself. Besides, who eats like that? I don't eat many foods that come from a can or box.
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earthakin66 wrote: »It just seems obvious to me that 200 calories in almonds vs. 200 calories in a doughnut will not have the same result in your body. It actually seems like people here agree on that so I don't really know what the issue is. Part of the idea is that if we eat 1400 calories worth of nutritionally dense, higher fat foods then we will be less hungry than if we ate 1400 calories of processed, low fat foods.
I read the review, interesting points.
I dont trust doctors blindly, just was pointing out that he isn't a stick insect.
Again!! For your weight-loss 200 calories is 200 calories.. No difference at all. For your state of mind its wise to make the healthy choices in food 99% of the time. And that is what most CICO'rs do!8 -
No matter what way I eat, healthy or unhealthy, I only lose weight by counting my calories and being under my goal. I've lost 100 lbs counting calories.
Sorry, there is no magic bullet for weight lose.20 -
earthakin66 wrote: »It just seems obvious to me that 200 calories in almonds vs. 200 calories in a doughnut will not have the same result in your body. It actually seems like people here agree on that so I don't really know what the issue is. Part of the idea is that if we eat 1400 calories worth of nutritionally dense, higher fat foods then we will be less hungry than if we ate 1400 calories of processed, low fat foods.
I read the review, interesting points.
I dont trust doctors blindly, just was pointing out that he isn't a stick insect.
But if you aren't counting calories, you don't know you are eating 1400 cals of nutritious food. I know plenty of people who switched to eating "clean" and they actually gained weight because they stopped measuring their portions and overate.
When it comes to weight loss, 200 cals of almonds is the same as 200 cals of doughnuts. Obviously, health is a different story. But having said that, if I ate lots of veggies and fiber and lean protein and got plenty of nutrition, and I end up with 200 cals left over, having a 200 calorie doughnut with my tea rather than 200 cals of almonds is not going to make me fat. There's no magic button in my cells the sugar and flour from the doughnut are going to push to make me diabetic or obese.
Anyway, if you want to follow his plan, go for it! If you lose weight, it will be because that way of eating helps you to eat the right amount of calories. Maybe it's the right way for you! I don't need to read it, because I kept a food log on MFP that I didn't have to pay a penny for, I eat a mostly nutritious diet that includes enough pizza and ice cream and Doritos to keep me happy, but not so much that I am unhealthy or overweight, and I have easily followed this for over two years so far and am totally psyched about that!22 -
earthakin66 wrote: »Part of the idea is that if we eat 1400 calories worth of nutritionally dense, higher fat foods then we will be less hungry than if we ate 1400 calories of processed, low fat foods.
I agree with this, 100%. I wanted a fresh-from the oven chocolate with chocolate chip brownie for breakfast this morning. But it was over 400kcal. Instead, I had a huge plate of eggs with ham, cheese, and mushrooms for around the same.
The problem isn't that the calories will make you feel difference and give different levels of nutrition. The problem is when people say that eating the brownie instead of the eggs will cause you to lose weight slower or not at all. It won't, unless you have an underlying medical problem. You can eat either one, as long as it's in your calorie goal, and lose weight just the same. You might just be hungrier eating the brownie instead of the eggs (I know I would have been).19 -
earthakin66 wrote: »It just seems obvious to me that 200 calories in almonds vs. 200 calories in a doughnut will not have the same result in your body. It actually seems like people here agree on that so I don't really know what the issue is. Part of the idea is that if we eat 1400 calories worth of nutritionally dense, higher fat foods then we will be less hungry than if we ate 1400 calories of processed, low fat foods.
I read the review, interesting points.
I dont trust doctors blindly, just was pointing out that he isn't a stick insect.
There is a difference though between saying a calorie isn't a calorie and discussing the satiety levels of different foods. Most will agree that eating bulkier more nutrient dense food for the majority of your calories is going to keep you feeling fuller and less hungry when compared to eating calorically dense, less filling items. The whole trick to losing and maintaining weight loss is finding a way to eat that satisfies you, you can easily stick with while hitting a deficit or eating at maintenance.
How someone chooses to go about that is a personal thing. I probably eat more protein than most people at 45% of my calories, but it works for me. I try and practice the 80-20 rule to make sure I do get a balanced diet with some room for treats.
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I think this is the crux of the problem for some...A calorie is not a calorie in terms of satiety.16
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earthakin66 wrote: »It just seems obvious to me that 200 calories in almonds vs. 200 calories in a doughnut will not have the same result in your body. It actually seems like people here agree on that so I don't really know what the issue is. Part of the idea is that if we eat 1400 calories worth of nutritionally dense, higher fat foods then we will be less hungry than if we ate 1400 calories of processed, low fat foods.
I read the review, interesting points.
I dont trust doctors blindly, just was pointing out that he isn't a stick insect.
You are confusing the concept of calories (a unit of energy) with macros (and all the other attributes of food). Nobody here is going to argue that almonds and doughnuts will have different effects on your blood sugar, your level of satiety, etc. (Because duh, no kidding.) We will point out that the same caloric amount of doughnuts and almonds will make no difference in terms of weight loss EXCEPT if they impact your hunger level (and one makes you more likely to overeat). A calorie is the same as any other calorie. A macro is NOT the same as any other macro.10 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Just a thought on my previous post.
If there are newbies who want to start counting calories, it should be strongly suggested to them, at least for the first month or so, that they only purchase foods where there can be no possible way of screwing up the calorie count.
A can of tuna fish, two eggs, pre-packaged frozen burgers on a bun, a can of soup, an ice cream bar (as opposed to scooping ice cream from a container), a pre-packaged burrito, etc. Just about anything where you can "leave your brain at home" when counting.
I have never read ANYBODY suggest this incredible simplification of the process.
Because they are allowed a 10% margin of error.....2 -
earthakin66 wrote: »I don't mind hearing criticism, I just wonder why everyone feels the need to offer that. Thanks for the tip, I'll look over in groups.
Because so very many of us were just like you when it comes to trying to lose weight. Looking for that magical answer that's out there, reading a book and saying "Aha! So that's what is wrong with me, that's why I can't lose weight. This is what I need to do! I need to eat low carb or low fat, I need to eat healthy, I need to cut out refined sugars, or processed foods. I need some raspberry keytones, or I'll do the military diet. The problem is I have to calm down my fat cells, I need to jump start my metabolism.
I tried it all for twenty years. So did a lot of people on here. I tried Atkins, South Beach, Phen Phen, over the counter pills, I read books and magazine articles, some written by scientists and Dr's.
Please listen to the people on here, Calories in/ Calories out. That's what causes weight loss.
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Read the Amazon reviews for the book. Good reviews and bad, as for most diet books. The main complaints seem to be cost, time needed for prep, and restriction of many foods, especially carbs.0
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I haven't read Ludwig's book and I don't follow any specific program but eating a low carb, high fat diet was the turning point for me. Simply counting calories and eating the healthywholegrain-leanmeat-fruitandvegetable-everything-in-moderation-diet was a struggle for me every single day. After six months I was hanging on by sheer willpower alone and there would have been no way I could have sustained my weight loss -- it was getting harder as time went on, not easier. I was hungry and food obsessed.
Four years later and I still to this day describe the change to a low carb diet as miraculous - macro distribution (and food quality if your diet is poor) can have a tremendous impact. If you've been struggling please don't let anyone discourage you from trying something new.14 -
He basically wants people not to eat refined carbs to help with losing weight and not storing fat.0
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All calories are equal, all foods are not. What foods keep a person sated differs from person to person. I would love to see Ludwig explain how I need starches for satiety and how I need over 1000 calories of kebab (high fat low carb) to feel full and then I'm hungry an hour later, but a baked potato for lunch (high carb low fat) often causes me to skip dinner. Or how I got fat as a result of overeating nuts and olive oil (high fat), and lowering my fat to a more normal level helped me lose a lot of weight without being "always hungry" or going into "starvation mode", or how my attempt at a low carb diet made it extremely hard for me to regulate my appetite and calories and made me feel deprived. I guess my cells are special and tend to "relax" and release the fat when I eat the foods I like and "tense up" holding on to the fat when I force unnecessary food restrictions.
Some people DO find eating low carb/high carb/low fat/clean/paleo/vegan/whole30/[insert any other style of eating] makes dieting easier for them. The staggering number of people advocating their often polar opposite ways of eating as the only solution to hunger only proves what's obvious: different people respond differently to different approaches and no amount of sciency sounding extrapolations apply equally to everyone.
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
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No matter what way I eat, healthy or unhealthy, I only lose weight by counting my calories and being under my goal. I've lost 100 lbs counting calories.
Sorry, there is no magic bullet for weight lose.
IDK Liposuction isn't magic or a bullet but it does allow weight loss without eating at a deficit.4 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Just a thought on my previous post.
If there are newbies who want to start counting calories, it should be strongly suggested to them, at least for the first month or so, that they only purchase foods where there can be no possible way of screwing up the calorie count.
A can of tuna fish, two eggs, pre-packaged frozen burgers on a bun, a can of soup, an ice cream bar (as opposed to scooping ice cream from a container), a pre-packaged burrito, etc. Just about anything where you can "leave your brain at home" when counting.
I have never read ANYBODY suggest this incredible simplification of the process.
/Tries to imagine myself recommending ultra processed foods over whole foods and a digital scale./
/Failed/17 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »No matter what way I eat, healthy or unhealthy, I only lose weight by counting my calories and being under my goal. I've lost 100 lbs counting calories.
Sorry, there is no magic bullet for weight lose.
IDK Liposuction isn't magic or a bullet but it does allow weight loss without eating at a deficit.
Well, Lipo doesn't violate the principle of mass conservation
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Sounds like Slimming world to me, and people lose massive amounts of weight on that not weighing or counting most of the foods they eat?0
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xjessicaxrx wrote: »Sounds like Slimming world to me, and people lose massive amounts of weight on that not weighing or counting most of the foods they eat?
Not according to the people who start Slimming World threads here...6 -
carlenbowie wrote: »I haven't read the book, but I am a fitness trainer and all calories are not the same. While trying to loose weight if you eat too many carbs you will still loose weight but you will be loosing muscle and not look as flattering if you loosed the fat. However, not all carbs are bad - stay away from simple carbs (in moderation)
Come again?6 -
kshama2001 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Sounds like Slimming world to me, and people lose massive amounts of weight on that not weighing or counting most of the foods they eat?
Not according to the people who start Slimming World threads here...
I know quite a few people who have done well on Slimming world, a friend at work has just got her 3st award. She is now at her goal of 9st so she wasnt very overweight to start with but it has worked for her.
I personally didnt like the plan but it clearly does work if you stick to it.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »No matter what way I eat, healthy or unhealthy, I only lose weight by counting my calories and being under my goal. I've lost 100 lbs counting calories.
Sorry, there is no magic bullet for weight lose.
IDK Liposuction isn't magic or a bullet but it does allow weight loss without eating at a deficit.
Well, Lipo doesn't violate the principle of mass conservation
Nope. Then it would be magic.0 -
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Just a thought on my previous post.
If there are newbies who want to start counting calories, it should be strongly suggested to them, at least for the first month or so, that they only purchase foods where there can be no possible way of screwing up the calorie count.
A can of tuna fish, two eggs, pre-packaged frozen burgers on a bun, a can of soup, an ice cream bar (as opposed to scooping ice cream from a container), a pre-packaged burrito, etc. Just about anything where you can "leave your brain at home" when counting.
I have never read ANYBODY suggest this incredible simplification of the process.
This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how to count calories though, and frankly throws doubt onto the many points you try to make against CICO, since you've revealed that you don't really understand it.
Do you truly think that every single egg is the exactly same weight, down to the grams? Have you looked into the labeling laws that allow mislabeling on caloric content within a certain range? Have you ever weighed a prepackaged item to see how different the weight actually is from what's mentioned on the package? You seem to think cereal should be measured in cups - do you honestly think that the same amount of cereal settles into a cup measure the exact same way every time, thus creating an exact caloric measurement?
The most basic, fundamental part of accurate calorie counting is "weigh all solids, measure all liquids". The reason people don't start with "eat prepackaged things" is because that's a fundamentally incorrect understanding of how this all works.20 -
Wherever you got your cert from then isn't legit. A calorie is a unit of measurement. Units of measurements don't change because materials are different.carlenbowie wrote: »I haven't read the book, but I am a fitness trainer and all calories are not the same.
You do know that carbs are muscle sparing right? Who certified you?While trying to loose weight if you eat too many carbs you will still loose weight but you will be loosing muscle and not look as flattering if you loosed the fat.
No carbs are "bad". They are different in nutrient density though. All carbs become what once in the body and broken down to simplest form?However, not all carbs are bad - stay away from simple carbs (in moderation)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.1 -
I won't disagree with this to a point. Dependent on the NEED FOR CALORIES from individual to individual, sometimes eating nutritionally dense foods that are lower in calories may not suffice to fulfill the need to supply energy needed to perform a physical sport (swimming, long distance running, boxing, MMA, etc.) and that processed foods that are higher in calories do a better job.earthakin66 wrote: »It just seems obvious to me that 200 calories in almonds vs. 200 calories in a doughnut will not have the same result in your body. It actually seems like people here agree on that so I don't really know what the issue is. Part of the idea is that if we eat 1400 calories worth of nutritionally dense, higher fat foods then we will be less hungry than if we ate 1400 calories of processed, low fat foods.
I read the review, interesting points.
I dont trust doctors blindly, just was pointing out that he isn't a stick insect.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »hjlourenshj wrote: »
'tgonetothedogs19 wrote: »Bottom line - if you are counting calories, weighing, measuring and logging religiously, and cannot lose weight (a common complaint on this site), try this approach. Why not? And why would you continue doing something that is not working?
Its just impossible to not lose weight when you are in a deficit. So the common complaint on this site is 100% the cause of mistakes in counting. Its that simple. Don't spin it towards something else
How hard is it to count calories? One ounce of cereal with skim milk (the amount is stated on the cereal box) for breakfast. Two cans of tuna fish and whatever the portion of mayonnaise is on the label for lunch. 100-calorie pre-packaged snack. A couple of pre-made burgers on a bun for dinner with a salad and a low-cal dressing.
This is not exactly rocket science.
It's not rocket science but if people are using the 1 cup or 1/4 cup suggestions for the measurement instead of weighing it, they're almost definitely eating more than they think. For example. I have some granola I mix into my Greek yogurt. The Greek yogurt says a serving is 1 cup (227 g) and the granola says a serving is 1/4 cup (27g). That's what the packaging gives as a serving size.
I put my 1/2 cup on my scale to eat half a serving and I filled it about 2/3 full before I reached 113 g. If I had filled it to the top, I'd be eating more than I thought. And when I weighed the granola, 1/4 cup was 1.5 servings.
So it may not be rocket science but if people are using measuring cups and wondering why they aren't losing weight, it's not what they're eating. It's how much.
This is exactly what most newbies SHOULD NOT be doing.
I am eating a Chobani yogurt right now. It contains 140 calories. Not 150 calories and not 130 caloires. There is nothing to weigh and nothing to measure. Forget about weighing granola. It just makes life difficult
And Chobani has some product where you mix in things (one of them may be granola) into the yogurt. That may contain 200 calories. Not 210 calories and not 190 calories.
I say KISS (with affection) to all newbies - Keep It Simple Stupid.
Packaged foods are allowed to have a margin of error of something like 10-20%. Which means your Chobani yogurt cup could have more like 154 calories in it. So, with respect, newbies should absolutely be weighing their food.
The whole point of this is establishing good habits so that we're not losing the same weight again in 5 years.
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