All calories may not be equal
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SusanMFindlay wrote: »FitnessGirl11mfp wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »As a newbie, I find the process of measuring and weighing everything to be tedious and very nearly overwhelming. IMO it's more important to make a habit of keeping track of what you eat. If measuring and weighing helps me to be more accurate when I keep track, that will be a good thing. But if it lengthens my prep time significantly, I'm probably not going to keep doing it. I'm not going to risk being late to work in the morning or play practice in the evening. I'm not willing to cut back on sleep, and I would certainly prefer not to cut back on what little exercise time I have.
LOL it is not that time consuming to weigh your food.
No, but it can be really time consuming to measure with cups and spoons which need scraping out and cleaning. Much easier to put toast on plate on scale, hit tare, add almond butter, hit tare, add honey than dinking around with tablespoons and teaspoons. And if you always weigh out the same amount, the logging is much faster too. I strongly suspect that most people who complain about the effort of measuring food are using cups/spoons.
Ya, I left my scale at my OH's one day next week and the next day had to fuss with measuring cups, and look up cup equivalents for things like potatoes. Much faster and easier to weigh.2 -
clicketykeys wrote: »Well, I don't know if it's the weighing or the logging, but my previous post was just before I started making lunch for tomorrow, and I just finished logging it. So ~ 40 min, which is 2-3 times what it would take to just put things together.
Now, in fairness, next time I make those particular recipes I won't have to type them in. We'll see how it goes.
Recipes can take a while because the "matching algorithms" in the new recipe builder often don't produce good matches. Other than new recipes, weighing and logging takes me very little time as my common foods are all in Frequent. This time of year I'm doing a lot of grilling and haven't used the recipe builder since it broke a few months ago.
I find new (whole) foods quickly by keeping https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods open in one browser to find the correct syntax for MFP system entries.0 -
I weigh my food periodically to ensure I'm still eyeballing correctly. Currently I have the problem of my portions becoming smaller. So when I feel more hungry than usual, it's usually due to eating too little calories. (4 years ago when I started, like most here, I was overestimating)1
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xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
Weighing is the most accurate way to count calories. How do you do this? Cups? Estimates?
Have you ever used a food scale? Look, if you said "I have OCD and using a food scale made it worse," that would be one thing, and I wouldn't give you pushback about that. But not using a food scale and accusing those who do of having OCD is lame.8 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
The point about pre-packaged stuff being potentially off was a response to a poster who was claiming that it was better to change one's diet to be all packaged single-serving stuff vs. to have to weigh. IMO, saying you must use pre-packaged to count properly is way more neurotic than weighing one's foods*, and once you weigh it's not much of a hassle to weigh everything you put in a bowl or on a plate or use in cooking.
*If I were going to make such judgments, but I personally think it's wrong to do so.
I was that poster.
Bottom line - the vast majority of people fail at diets, whether they count calories or don't count calories.
My suggestion was that in order to make calorie counting easier for newbies, it would be much better to eat pre-packaged foods (including things like single-serve yogurts, cans of tuna fish and soup) or foods where you don't have to weigh or measure anything (like an egg).
It's hard enough to start any diet (which is why most people fail). Making newbies weigh and measure and obsess over calories on Day 1 makes the situation even worse, and will result in more failure.
The people here on this site who say its easy to weigh, measure and count remind me of vegans who say it's easy to be a vegan. Both are not easy.
You've revealed one of your hidden assumptions here - that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to being overwhelmed by weighing of food. I would say it's far more likely that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to not being able to eat everything they want in the portions that they want, which is not resolved by limiting them to specific foods (that will still be off by hundreds of calories).
In fact, you contradicted your own assumption at the start by saying that most people fail at diets regardless of counting calories. So why would counting calories in a way that severely restricts your eating solve the problem?
You missed the point. If you want more people to join the fraternity of calories counters, it is suggested that they start out eating pre-packaged food, eggs, etc.
I don't want more people to join the fraternity of calorie counters. I don't count calories at maintenance myself, and have lost without counting calories even though for me counting is preferable (at least currently). What I want is for people to find a method of losing and maintaining their weight that is sustainable for them. Telling them they must change their diet to be based on single-serve packaged foods is IMO not workable or good advice for many people. Some like eating that way and thus they do it without it being suggested to them.
Right, I only suggest weighing when people start threads wondering why they aren't losing weight. Not losing weight means something is off with their estimates of Calories In or Calories Out and it's easy to get more accurate with CI via weighing.3 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
The point about pre-packaged stuff being potentially off was a response to a poster who was claiming that it was better to change one's diet to be all packaged single-serving stuff vs. to have to weigh. IMO, saying you must use pre-packaged to count properly is way more neurotic than weighing one's foods*, and once you weigh it's not much of a hassle to weigh everything you put in a bowl or on a plate or use in cooking.
*If I were going to make such judgments, but I personally think it's wrong to do so.
I was that poster.
Bottom line - the vast majority of people fail at diets, whether they count calories or don't count calories.
My suggestion was that in order to make calorie counting easier for newbies, it would be much better to eat pre-packaged foods (including things like single-serve yogurts, cans of tuna fish and soup) or foods where you don't have to weigh or measure anything (like an egg).
It's hard enough to start any diet (which is why most people fail). Making newbies weigh and measure and obsess over calories on Day 1 makes the situation even worse, and will result in more failure.
The people here on this site who say its easy to weigh, measure and count remind me of vegans who say it's easy to be a vegan. Both are not easy.
You've revealed one of your hidden assumptions here - that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to being overwhelmed by weighing of food. I would say it's far more likely that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to not being able to eat everything they want in the portions that they want, which is not resolved by limiting them to specific foods (that will still be off by hundreds of calories).
In fact, you contradicted your own assumption at the start by saying that most people fail at diets regardless of counting calories. So why would counting calories in a way that severely restricts your eating solve the problem?
You missed the point. If you want more people to join the fraternity of calories counters, it is suggested that they start out eating pre-packaged food, eggs, etc.
And another thought - You are more likely to get an accurate count that way (add 10% to the label if you want to), than doing it on your own.
And another thought - Weigh and measuring yogurt because it's in a large container? How about keeping an empty single-serve container, and scooping the yogurt from the large container into the single-serve container? No counting necessary.
Ya, had to use a measuring cup for yogurt last week after leaving my scale at my OH's. Takes longer than weighing, plus there's washing the cup.5 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »bethannien wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »I think if a "Newbie" was to read this thread it would scare and put them off straight away! So many judgemental, rude, aggressive people getting their back up!!
I also noticed that a lot of people on here may have developed OCD with weighing and numbers, weighing a pre packaged yogurt haha come on REALLY!
I dont take a food scale out of the house and carry it around with with me, that is just sad.
I have and I am still losing weight just fine.
I was really stunned to learn that people take the yogurt out of the container and weigh it. The container says 120 calories, but that's not good enough. Like I said, if you are that concerned that it is an under-count, just log 135 calories.
And I agree with you. It gets to the point where it is OCD. The OCD response could be, "how can you log 135 calories when it could be 141 calories?"
Nah.......this is plain silly, and a bit on the judgmental side as well. Just because someone uses a certain tool that works for them does not mean OCD is involved.
If I went around and said in a low carb thread they're all OCD with their fear for carbs, I'd be behind bars before I could say "double standard".
You don't know the definition of OCD. They are not counting and agonizing over each little single carb. They are just avoiding them (other than from green veggies). Big difference between that, and obssessing over the fear that the calories on the label could be 10% lower than the actual number of calories.
I'm not sure you know the definition of OCD either. It's not just one behavior that you perceive as obsessive because you personally wouldn't do it.
Literally everyone is going to do something trying to lose weight that someone else will think is a little out there. But throwing around a term used to describe a very real and often debilitating mental health issue for those who actually deal with it isn't exactly making your point for you.
There are plenty of people with OCD who have spouses and children, and successful careers. I know a few who are so pathologically neat that they could be classified as OCD. Other OCD's are much more debilitating.
Counting every single calorie, years after you met your weight goal, is OCD. Not a debilitating OCD. Not an OCD that requires therapy. Just and OCD like the pathological neat-freak who can't leave a crumb on the kitchen counter, or has to make the bed no matter what.
i really don't think you are qualified to decide what is OCD and what isn't, you're just making ridiculous judgments.
this is an excerpt from the National Institute of Mental Health regarding OCD:
Not all rituals or habits are compulsions. Everyone double checks things sometimes. But a person with OCD generally:
Can't control his or her thoughts or behaviors, even when those thoughts or behaviors are recognized as excessive
Spends at least 1 hour a day on these thoughts or behaviors
Doesn’t get pleasure when performing the behaviors or rituals, but may feel brief relief from the anxiety the thoughts cause
Experiences significant problems in their daily life due to these thoughts or behaviors
please feel free to read further on the matter before you go tossing around armchair diagnoses
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd/index.shtml10 -
MissusMoon wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
If I weren't weighing my food, I would be eating at least 200 more calories more than I should every day. Slices of bread, cups of yogurt, packaged food that says it has "about 1.5 servings" that really has more than three. I'm far from OCD, but yeah, I'm going to weigh all of that--because having lost 75lbs is better than not.
The receptionist at my physical therapist's office and I got to talking. She used to be obese. She has peanut butter and apples for breakfast, and still weighs it all out. She's not OCD either. She's doing what she needs to do to maintain her healthy weight. Over five years and counting.
Labeling people with a mental condition because you don't understand why they do what they do is ridiculous.
If you have reached your goal weight, and five years later you are still counting every calorie and weighing and measuring everything you eat, it is OCD.
God forbid you gain two pounds. Guess what? You can start counting again and lose the two pounds.0 -
You still have no idea what ocd is15
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »MissusMoon wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
If I weren't weighing my food, I would be eating at least 200 more calories more than I should every day. Slices of bread, cups of yogurt, packaged food that says it has "about 1.5 servings" that really has more than three. I'm far from OCD, but yeah, I'm going to weigh all of that--because having lost 75lbs is better than not.
The receptionist at my physical therapist's office and I got to talking. She used to be obese. She has peanut butter and apples for breakfast, and still weighs it all out. She's not OCD either. She's doing what she needs to do to maintain her healthy weight. Over five years and counting.
Labeling people with a mental condition because you don't understand why they do what they do is ridiculous.
If you have reached your goal weight, and five years later you are still counting every calorie and weight and measuring food, it is OCD.
God forbid you gain two pounds. Guess what? You can start counting again and lose the two pounds.
Just because you say it is doesn't make it true. You really are out of line and acting a bit ignorant of the subject at this point.
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I was trying to make two points:
1) If calorie counting, weighing and measuring is too difficult or you just don't want to do it, start off with packaged foods, eggs, etc. that just requires counting.
2) I never said counting, weighing and measuring is OCD. I said a LIFETIME of counting, weighing and measuring is OCD. You've been counting, weighing and measuring for a year and you reached your goal. That one year has trained you how to eat. And as I said above, if you gain two pounds, start counting, measuring and weighing again to lose the two pounds.
Sheesh!0 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I was trying to make two points:
1) If calorie counting, weighing and measuring is too difficult or you just don't want to do it, start off with packaged foods, eggs, etc. that require no counting, weighing and measuring.
2) I never said counting, weighing and measuring is OCD. I said a LIFETIME of counting, weighing and measuring is OCD. You've been counting, weighing and measuring for a year and you reached your goal. That one year has trained you how to eat. And as I said above, if you gain two pounds, start counting, measuring and weighing again to lose the two pounds.
Sheesh!
Yes, you have said all that and you are still wrong.
Like I said, some of us have more goals than a healthy weight that require as much accuracy as we can accomplish. That's not OCD. That's being dedicated to something you ENJOY and working towards goals.
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I was trying to make two points:
1) If calorie counting, weighing and measuring is too difficult or you just don't want to do it, start off with packaged foods, eggs, etc. that require no counting, weighing and measuring.
2) I never said counting, weighing and measuring is OCD. I said a LIFETIME of counting, weighing and measuring is OCD. You've been counting, weighing and measuring for a year and you reached your goal. That one year has trained you how to eat. And as I said above, if you gain two pounds, start counting, measuring and weighing again to lose the two pounds.
Sheesh!
Yes, you have said all that and you are still wrong.
Like I said, some of us have more goals than a healthy weight that require as much accuracy as we can accomplish. That's not OCD. That's being dedicated to something you ENJOY and working towards goals.
So when you have a salad with lettuce, carrots, tomatoes, onions, cucumbers, olives, etc., you actually ENJOY weighing and measuring each of them.
Really?0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »You still have no idea what ocd is
Nope, not a freakin clue!3 -
I don't know, I don't eat salads.
Saying I enjoy weighing is a bit silly. What I enjoy is results. What gets you there the fastest? Accuracy and knowledge about your intake.
So, if I was eating a salad like you mentioned, I would weigh it out and be completely indifferent to spending that 2 minutes to tally it.
What do your results look like by the way?gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I was trying to make two points:
1) If calorie counting, weighing and measuring is too difficult or you just don't want to do it, start off with packaged foods, eggs, etc. that require no counting, weighing and measuring.
2) I never said counting, weighing and measuring is OCD. I said a LIFETIME of counting, weighing and measuring is OCD. You've been counting, weighing and measuring for a year and you reached your goal. That one year has trained you how to eat. And as I said above, if you gain two pounds, start counting, measuring and weighing again to lose the two pounds.
Sheesh!
Yes, you have said all that and you are still wrong.
Like I said, some of us have more goals than a healthy weight that require as much accuracy as we can accomplish. That's not OCD. That's being dedicated to something you ENJOY and working towards goals.
So when you have a salad with lettuce, carrots, tomatoes, onions, cucumbers, olives, etc., you actually ENJOY weighing and measuring each of them.
Really?
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I was trying to make two points:
1) If calorie counting, weighing and measuring is too difficult or you just don't want to do it, start off with packaged foods, eggs, etc. that require no counting, weighing and measuring.
2) I never said counting, weighing and measuring is OCD. I said a LIFETIME of counting, weighing and measuring is OCD. You've been counting, weighing and measuring for a year and you reached your goal. That one year has trained you how to eat. And as I said above, if you gain two pounds, start counting, measuring and weighing again to lose the two pounds.
Sheesh!
Yes, you have said all that and you are still wrong.
Like I said, some of us have more goals than a healthy weight that require as much accuracy as we can accomplish. That's not OCD. That's being dedicated to something you ENJOY and working towards goals.
So when you have a salad with lettuce, carrots, tomatoes, onions, cucumbers, olives, etc., you actually ENJOY weighing and measuring each of them.
Really?
I enjoy pretending to be a mad scientist every morning when I pour my coffee creamer into my coffee on a food scale. But most of the time I just don't think about it. The same way I don't think about whether or not to shower or brush my teeth. It's just something I do. The scale is there on the counter. Why not use the same amount of coffee creamer every day? I get more consistent coffee because I'm crap at eyeballing it and I use less coffee creamer overall, which saves me money.7 -
stevencloser wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
The point about pre-packaged stuff being potentially off was a response to a poster who was claiming that it was better to change one's diet to be all packaged single-serving stuff vs. to have to weigh. IMO, saying you must use pre-packaged to count properly is way more neurotic than weighing one's foods*, and once you weigh it's not much of a hassle to weigh everything you put in a bowl or on a plate or use in cooking.
*If I were going to make such judgments, but I personally think it's wrong to do so.
I was that poster.
Bottom line - the vast majority of people fail at diets, whether they count calories or don't count calories.
My suggestion was that in order to make calorie counting easier for newbies, it would be much better to eat pre-packaged foods (including things like single-serve yogurts, cans of tuna fish and soup) or foods where you don't have to weigh or measure anything (like an egg).
It's hard enough to start any diet (which is why most people fail). Making newbies weigh and measure and obsess over calories on Day 1 makes the situation even worse, and will result in more failure.
The people here on this site who say its easy to weigh, measure and count remind me of vegans who say it's easy to be a vegan. Both are not easy.
You've revealed one of your hidden assumptions here - that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to being overwhelmed by weighing of food. I would say it's far more likely that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to not being able to eat everything they want in the portions that they want, which is not resolved by limiting them to specific foods (that will still be off by hundreds of calories).
In fact, you contradicted your own assumption at the start by saying that most people fail at diets regardless of counting calories. So why would counting calories in a way that severely restricts your eating solve the problem?
You missed the point. If you want more people to join the fraternity of calories counters, it is suggested that they start out eating pre-packaged food, eggs, etc.
And another thought - You are more likely to get an accurate count that way (add 10% to the label if you want to), than doing it on your own.
And another thought - Weigh and measuring yogurt because it's in a large container? How about keeping an empty single-serve container, and scooping the yogurt from the large container into the single-serve container? No counting necessary.
Now I'm wondering if you are serious or not.
Fraternity of calorie counters? What is that?
Did we forget to show you the secret handshake? Message me and I'll fill you in. You did go through the initiation, right?
The one where you bathe in coke and get the secret motto written on your forehead in twinkie creme?
Exactly how many grams of Coke and Twinkie creme are used in this ceremony? It sounds amazing.6 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »MissusMoon wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
If I weren't weighing my food, I would be eating at least 200 more calories more than I should every day. Slices of bread, cups of yogurt, packaged food that says it has "about 1.5 servings" that really has more than three. I'm far from OCD, but yeah, I'm going to weigh all of that--because having lost 75lbs is better than not.
The receptionist at my physical therapist's office and I got to talking. She used to be obese. She has peanut butter and apples for breakfast, and still weighs it all out. She's not OCD either. She's doing what she needs to do to maintain her healthy weight. Over five years and counting.
Labeling people with a mental condition because you don't understand why they do what they do is ridiculous.
If you have reached your goal weight, and five years later you are still counting every calorie and weighing and measuring everything you eat, it is OCD.
God forbid you gain two pounds. Guess what? You can start counting again and lose the two pounds.
You are clueless about OCD and you have no business speaking about it. At this point I think you are purposely being disrespectful.17 -
DancingDaffydils wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »MissusMoon wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
If I weren't weighing my food, I would be eating at least 200 more calories more than I should every day. Slices of bread, cups of yogurt, packaged food that says it has "about 1.5 servings" that really has more than three. I'm far from OCD, but yeah, I'm going to weigh all of that--because having lost 75lbs is better than not.
The receptionist at my physical therapist's office and I got to talking. She used to be obese. She has peanut butter and apples for breakfast, and still weighs it all out. She's not OCD either. She's doing what she needs to do to maintain her healthy weight. Over five years and counting.
Labeling people with a mental condition because you don't understand why they do what they do is ridiculous.
If you have reached your goal weight, and five years later you are still counting every calorie and weighing and measuring everything you eat, it is OCD.
God forbid you gain two pounds. Guess what? You can start counting again and lose the two pounds.
You are clueless about OCD and you have no business speaking about it. At this point I think you are purposely being disrespectful.
I believe he seems to think that if something is a habit, it's automatically OCD or something. It's really getting under my skin as my best friend has severe OCD and I have seen that shiz in action. Counting calories isn't even in the same galaxy, however, I'm just not sure they understand how easy weighing is.14 -
DancingDaffydils wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »MissusMoon wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
If I weren't weighing my food, I would be eating at least 200 more calories more than I should every day. Slices of bread, cups of yogurt, packaged food that says it has "about 1.5 servings" that really has more than three. I'm far from OCD, but yeah, I'm going to weigh all of that--because having lost 75lbs is better than not.
The receptionist at my physical therapist's office and I got to talking. She used to be obese. She has peanut butter and apples for breakfast, and still weighs it all out. She's not OCD either. She's doing what she needs to do to maintain her healthy weight. Over five years and counting.
Labeling people with a mental condition because you don't understand why they do what they do is ridiculous.
If you have reached your goal weight, and five years later you are still counting every calorie and weighing and measuring everything you eat, it is OCD.
God forbid you gain two pounds. Guess what? You can start counting again and lose the two pounds.
You are clueless about OCD and you have no business speaking about it. At this point I think you are purposely being disrespectful.
I mean no disrespect and I do not mean to be argumentative. It is just beyond my comprehension that a healthy person who works out and has reached the correct weight by counting, weighing and measuring, would continue to count, weigh and measure meal after meal after meal, year after year after year.
Just enjoy your food. Weigh yourself every day. I guarantee that nothing bad will happen to you other than gaining two pounds, which you can lose right away by counting, measuring and weighing.
Sorry, but I do not understand the obsession. And it is, in my opinion, an obsession.
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