All calories may not be equal
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xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
Yeah, but you have two issues here, once of which you can know nothing about, yet you still call weighing yogurt OCD.
What you know:: someone is weighing prepackaged yogurt or weighing food in a restaurant, but only know this because it's tangible and can be seen.
What you don't know: that someone is weighing that yogurt just in case the calories are on by plus or minus five calories, or weighing restaurant food Just in case, because you're not inside their head. You're just making big fat assumptions based on your perception of people who weigh prepackaged yogurt and restaurant food.
You don't get to define normal for other people, you only get to define if for you.
Yup.
And to elaborate on this -- I barely ever eat single-serving packages of yogurt. When I do, I never weigh them, even if I'm logging. I don't presume, based on this, that this is a better approach than weighing single-serving packages of yogurt or buying them and eating them regularly or the like, and I certainly don't claim that people who weigh things I wouldn't have a psychological disorder.
On the other hand, I weigh things others wouldn't -- in making a smoothie this morning I weighed kale instead of estimating the cup (which is just as good, the calorie difference is irrelevant), because the scale was right there and I was weighing everything else, so I wouldn't save any time by not weighing the kale. I also weighed basil, which I normally might not even log, the calories were so insignificant, because I wanted a record of what I used in my smoothie for future reference. It was not because I thought the calorie difference would matter or that I'm super obsessive about it (I never log coffee and the calories are probably more overall if I did, even drinking black only). If the scale hadn't been available I'd have estimated and if a restaurant meal I wouldn't have logged basil at all, probably (pesto, on the other hand...).4 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »CurlyCockney wrote: »Do people really believe that using scales will give someone OCD? I'm trying to follow the logic of using a mental health condition as an insult, is it coming from a fear that you might "catch" it? If someone has been diagnosed with OCD they don't need Internet people to tell them they've got it, and not all of their behaviours will be a manifestation of it. It is perfectly reasonable to have a mental health condition and yet still be comfortable with using tools in a healthy way.
I don't have OCD, although I did check the calendar three times after reading some of these posts - just to check that this is really 2016.
Nothing "gives you" OCD. It's not a disease.
I know someone who orders his food at a restaurant and then always go to the bathroom to wash his hands. Nothing gave him OCD. He is OCD.
Now, you're splitting hairs.
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
The point about pre-packaged stuff being potentially off was a response to a poster who was claiming that it was better to change one's diet to be all packaged single-serving stuff vs. to have to weigh. IMO, saying you must use pre-packaged to count properly is way more neurotic than weighing one's foods*, and once you weigh it's not much of a hassle to weigh everything you put in a bowl or on a plate or use in cooking.
*If I were going to make such judgments, but I personally think it's wrong to do so.
I was that poster.
Bottom line - the vast majority of people fail at diets, whether they count calories or don't count calories.
My suggestion was that in order to make calorie counting easier for newbies, it would be much better to eat pre-packaged foods (including things like single-serve yogurts, cans of tuna fish and soup) or foods where you don't have to weigh or measure anything (like an egg).
It's hard enough to start any diet (which is why most people fail). Making newbies weigh and measure and obsess over calories on Day 1 makes the situation even worse, and will result in more failure.
The people here on this site who say its easy to weigh, measure and count remind me of vegans who say it's easy to be a vegan. Both are not easy.
You've revealed one of your hidden assumptions here - that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to being overwhelmed by weighing of food. I would say it's far more likely that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to not being able to eat everything they want in the portions that they want, which is not resolved by limiting them to specific foods (that will still be off by hundreds of calories).
In fact, you contradicted your own assumption at the start by saying that most people fail at diets regardless of counting calories. So why would counting calories in a way that severely restricts your eating solve the problem?
And another thought - Weigh and measuring yogurt because it's in a large container? How about keeping an empty single-serve container, and scooping the yogurt from the large container into the single-serve container? No counting necessary.
I find it funny that you're so against weighing things that you think THIS is less work than putting something on a scale for 2 seconds.16 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »CurlyCockney wrote: »Do people really believe that using scales will give someone OCD? I'm trying to follow the logic of using a mental health condition as an insult, is it coming from a fear that you might "catch" it? If someone has been diagnosed with OCD they don't need Internet people to tell them they've got it, and not all of their behaviours will be a manifestation of it. It is perfectly reasonable to have a mental health condition and yet still be comfortable with using tools in a healthy way.
I don't have OCD, although I did check the calendar three times after reading some of these posts - just to check that this is really 2016.
Nothing "gives you" OCD. It's not a disease.
I know someone who orders his food at a restaurant and then always go to the bathroom to wash his hands. Nothing gave him OCD. He is OCD.
Actually it is a "disease". It is a mental illness. It is not cool that people use it out of context. Also no one is their disorder. He has ocd, he isn't ocd just like someone has cancer or has depression as opposed to is cancer or is depression18 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
The point about pre-packaged stuff being potentially off was a response to a poster who was claiming that it was better to change one's diet to be all packaged single-serving stuff vs. to have to weigh. IMO, saying you must use pre-packaged to count properly is way more neurotic than weighing one's foods*, and once you weigh it's not much of a hassle to weigh everything you put in a bowl or on a plate or use in cooking.
*If I were going to make such judgments, but I personally think it's wrong to do so.
I was that poster.
Bottom line - the vast majority of people fail at diets, whether they count calories or don't count calories.
My suggestion was that in order to make calorie counting easier for newbies, it would be much better to eat pre-packaged foods (including things like single-serve yogurts, cans of tuna fish and soup) or foods where you don't have to weigh or measure anything (like an egg).
It's hard enough to start any diet (which is why most people fail). Making newbies weigh and measure and obsess over calories on Day 1 makes the situation even worse, and will result in more failure.
The people here on this site who say its easy to weigh, measure and count remind me of vegans who say it's easy to be a vegan. Both are not easy.
What? Nobody is making anyone do anything, and nobody has to do anything they don't want to.
Obsession is a choice, and nobody can make you do anything you don't want to.2 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
The point about pre-packaged stuff being potentially off was a response to a poster who was claiming that it was better to change one's diet to be all packaged single-serving stuff vs. to have to weigh. IMO, saying you must use pre-packaged to count properly is way more neurotic than weighing one's foods*, and once you weigh it's not much of a hassle to weigh everything you put in a bowl or on a plate or use in cooking.
*If I were going to make such judgments, but I personally think it's wrong to do so.
I was that poster.
Bottom line - the vast majority of people fail at diets, whether they count calories or don't count calories.
My suggestion was that in order to make calorie counting easier for newbies, it would be much better to eat pre-packaged foods (including things like single-serve yogurts, cans of tuna fish and soup) or foods where you don't have to weigh or measure anything (like an egg).
It's hard enough to start any diet (which is why most people fail). Making newbies weigh and measure and obsess over calories on Day 1 makes the situation even worse, and will result in more failure.
The people here on this site who say its easy to weigh, measure and count remind me of vegans who say it's easy to be a vegan. Both are not easy.
You've revealed one of your hidden assumptions here - that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to being overwhelmed by weighing of food. I would say it's far more likely that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to not being able to eat everything they want in the portions that they want, which is not resolved by limiting them to specific foods (that will still be off by hundreds of calories).
In fact, you contradicted your own assumption at the start by saying that most people fail at diets regardless of counting calories. So why would counting calories in a way that severely restricts your eating solve the problem?
You missed the point. If you want more people to join the fraternity of calories counters, it is suggested that they start out eating pre-packaged food, eggs, etc.
And another thought - You are more likely to get an accurate count that way (add 10% to the label if you want to), than doing it on your own.
And another thought - Weigh and measuring yogurt because it's in a large container? How about keeping an empty single-serve container, and scooping the yogurt from the large container into the single-serve container? No counting necessary.
Now I'm wondering if you are serious or not.
Fraternity of calorie counters? What is that?
If you feel your method of estimation works for you, wonderful. Calorie counting and weighing food works for others of us.
Now I'm wondering what all of this has to do with a calorie being a calorie. 1 -
BreezeDoveal wrote: »Have any of you people with OCD ever considered it is just a nutrient deficiency?
To whom are you referring? I don't believe I've seen anyone here say they have OCD.4 -
singingflutelady wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »CurlyCockney wrote: »Do people really believe that using scales will give someone OCD? I'm trying to follow the logic of using a mental health condition as an insult, is it coming from a fear that you might "catch" it? If someone has been diagnosed with OCD they don't need Internet people to tell them they've got it, and not all of their behaviours will be a manifestation of it. It is perfectly reasonable to have a mental health condition and yet still be comfortable with using tools in a healthy way.
I don't have OCD, although I did check the calendar three times after reading some of these posts - just to check that this is really 2016.
Nothing "gives you" OCD. It's not a disease.
I know someone who orders his food at a restaurant and then always go to the bathroom to wash his hands. Nothing gave him OCD. He is OCD.
Actually it is a "disease". It is a mental illness. It is not cool that people use it out of context. Also no one is their disorder. He has ocd, he isn't ocd just like someone has cancer or has depression as opposed to is cancer or is depression
Yep. 100% yep, in fact.3 -
BreezeDoveal wrote: »Have any of you people with OCD ever considered it is just a nutrient deficiency?
For me, my mom bottle fed my sister and me and maybe too much raw milk for us as kids. With both have obsessive tendencies.1 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
The point about pre-packaged stuff being potentially off was a response to a poster who was claiming that it was better to change one's diet to be all packaged single-serving stuff vs. to have to weigh. IMO, saying you must use pre-packaged to count properly is way more neurotic than weighing one's foods*, and once you weigh it's not much of a hassle to weigh everything you put in a bowl or on a plate or use in cooking.
*If I were going to make such judgments, but I personally think it's wrong to do so.
I was that poster.
Bottom line - the vast majority of people fail at diets, whether they count calories or don't count calories.
My suggestion was that in order to make calorie counting easier for newbies, it would be much better to eat pre-packaged foods (including things like single-serve yogurts, cans of tuna fish and soup) or foods where you don't have to weigh or measure anything (like an egg).
It's hard enough to start any diet (which is why most people fail). Making newbies weigh and measure and obsess over calories on Day 1 makes the situation even worse, and will result in more failure.
The people here on this site who say its easy to weigh, measure and count remind me of vegans who say it's easy to be a vegan. Both are not easy.
You've revealed one of your hidden assumptions here - that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to being overwhelmed by weighing of food. I would say it's far more likely that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to not being able to eat everything they want in the portions that they want, which is not resolved by limiting them to specific foods (that will still be off by hundreds of calories).
In fact, you contradicted your own assumption at the start by saying that most people fail at diets regardless of counting calories. So why would counting calories in a way that severely restricts your eating solve the problem?
You missed the point. If you want more people to join the fraternity of calories counters, it is suggested that they start out eating pre-packaged food, eggs, etc.
And another thought - You are more likely to get an accurate count that way (add 10% to the label if you want to), than doing it on your own.
And another thought - Weigh and measuring yogurt because it's in a large container? How about keeping an empty single-serve container, and scooping the yogurt from the large container into the single-serve container? No counting necessary.
Now I'm wondering if you are serious or not.
Fraternity of calorie counters? What is that?
If you feel your method of estimation works for you, wonderful. Calorie counting and weighing food works for others of us.
Now I'm wondering what all of this has to do with a calorie being a calorie.
I realized I had no idea how this started too so I followed it back - looks like it went "all calories aren't equal, otherwise everyone would be losing weight" to "people aren't losing weight because they count calories inaccurately" to "counting calories is easy -lots of incorrect calorie counting- and also newbies should eat all prepackaged foods" and it all spiraled downhill from there.
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BreezeDoveal wrote: »Have any of you people with OCD ever considered it is just a nutrient deficiency?
LOL!!! I'd be willing to bet I DONT have a nutrient deficiency, possibly the opposite. OCD? Hardly....Successful? Completely.1 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
The point about pre-packaged stuff being potentially off was a response to a poster who was claiming that it was better to change one's diet to be all packaged single-serving stuff vs. to have to weigh. IMO, saying you must use pre-packaged to count properly is way more neurotic than weighing one's foods*, and once you weigh it's not much of a hassle to weigh everything you put in a bowl or on a plate or use in cooking.
*If I were going to make such judgments, but I personally think it's wrong to do so.
I was that poster.
Bottom line - the vast majority of people fail at diets, whether they count calories or don't count calories.
My suggestion was that in order to make calorie counting easier for newbies, it would be much better to eat pre-packaged foods (including things like single-serve yogurts, cans of tuna fish and soup) or foods where you don't have to weigh or measure anything (like an egg).
It's hard enough to start any diet (which is why most people fail). Making newbies weigh and measure and obsess over calories on Day 1 makes the situation even worse, and will result in more failure.
The people here on this site who say its easy to weigh, measure and count remind me of vegans who say it's easy to be a vegan. Both are not easy.
You've revealed one of your hidden assumptions here - that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to being overwhelmed by weighing of food. I would say it's far more likely that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to not being able to eat everything they want in the portions that they want, which is not resolved by limiting them to specific foods (that will still be off by hundreds of calories).
In fact, you contradicted your own assumption at the start by saying that most people fail at diets regardless of counting calories. So why would counting calories in a way that severely restricts your eating solve the problem?
You missed the point. If you want more people to join the fraternity of calories counters, it is suggested that they start out eating pre-packaged food, eggs, etc.
And another thought - You are more likely to get an accurate count that way (add 10% to the label if you want to), than doing it on your own.
And another thought - Weigh and measuring yogurt because it's in a large container? How about keeping an empty single-serve container, and scooping the yogurt from the large container into the single-serve container? No counting necessary.
Now I'm wondering if you are serious or not.
Fraternity of calorie counters? What is that?
Did we forget to show you the secret handshake? Message me and I'll fill you in. You did go through the initiation, right?7 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
The point about pre-packaged stuff being potentially off was a response to a poster who was claiming that it was better to change one's diet to be all packaged single-serving stuff vs. to have to weigh. IMO, saying you must use pre-packaged to count properly is way more neurotic than weighing one's foods*, and once you weigh it's not much of a hassle to weigh everything you put in a bowl or on a plate or use in cooking.
*If I were going to make such judgments, but I personally think it's wrong to do so.
I was that poster.
Bottom line - the vast majority of people fail at diets, whether they count calories or don't count calories.
My suggestion was that in order to make calorie counting easier for newbies, it would be much better to eat pre-packaged foods (including things like single-serve yogurts, cans of tuna fish and soup) or foods where you don't have to weigh or measure anything (like an egg).
It's hard enough to start any diet (which is why most people fail). Making newbies weigh and measure and obsess over calories on Day 1 makes the situation even worse, and will result in more failure.
The people here on this site who say its easy to weigh, measure and count remind me of vegans who say it's easy to be a vegan. Both are not easy.
You've revealed one of your hidden assumptions here - that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to being overwhelmed by weighing of food. I would say it's far more likely that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to not being able to eat everything they want in the portions that they want, which is not resolved by limiting them to specific foods (that will still be off by hundreds of calories).
In fact, you contradicted your own assumption at the start by saying that most people fail at diets regardless of counting calories. So why would counting calories in a way that severely restricts your eating solve the problem?
You missed the point. If you want more people to join the fraternity of calories counters, it is suggested that they start out eating pre-packaged food, eggs, etc.
And another thought - You are more likely to get an accurate count that way (add 10% to the label if you want to), than doing it on your own.
And another thought - Weigh and measuring yogurt because it's in a large container? How about keeping an empty single-serve container, and scooping the yogurt from the large container into the single-serve container? No counting necessary.
Now I'm wondering if you are serious or not.
Fraternity of calorie counters? What is that?
Did we forget to show you the secret handshake? Message me and I'll fill you in. You did go through the initiation, right?
The one where you bathe in coke and get the secret motto written on your forehead in twinkie creme?7 -
People who have no *kitten* clue about OCD should stop acting like they have any business telling others they are OCD. It is disrespectful to people who actually suffer from OCD. OCD isn't just an action. There has to be a detrimental thought process to go along with the action.
Signed
Someone who is actually diagnosed with OCD and has been able to thrive in life because I took the time to learn and understand what OCD is and to cope with it.24 -
stevencloser wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »xjessicaxrx wrote: »Let me be clear, the OCD comment was aimed at those who stress over weighing a pre-packaged, single serving yogurt just incase the calories are off by +/- 5-10kcal. Those who weigh restaurant food and pick apart meals "just incase".
Counting calories is one thing but that is just not normal behaviour.
The point about pre-packaged stuff being potentially off was a response to a poster who was claiming that it was better to change one's diet to be all packaged single-serving stuff vs. to have to weigh. IMO, saying you must use pre-packaged to count properly is way more neurotic than weighing one's foods*, and once you weigh it's not much of a hassle to weigh everything you put in a bowl or on a plate or use in cooking.
*If I were going to make such judgments, but I personally think it's wrong to do so.
I was that poster.
Bottom line - the vast majority of people fail at diets, whether they count calories or don't count calories.
My suggestion was that in order to make calorie counting easier for newbies, it would be much better to eat pre-packaged foods (including things like single-serve yogurts, cans of tuna fish and soup) or foods where you don't have to weigh or measure anything (like an egg).
It's hard enough to start any diet (which is why most people fail). Making newbies weigh and measure and obsess over calories on Day 1 makes the situation even worse, and will result in more failure.
The people here on this site who say its easy to weigh, measure and count remind me of vegans who say it's easy to be a vegan. Both are not easy.
You've revealed one of your hidden assumptions here - that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to being overwhelmed by weighing of food. I would say it's far more likely that the failure of newbies is disproportionately related to not being able to eat everything they want in the portions that they want, which is not resolved by limiting them to specific foods (that will still be off by hundreds of calories).
In fact, you contradicted your own assumption at the start by saying that most people fail at diets regardless of counting calories. So why would counting calories in a way that severely restricts your eating solve the problem?
You missed the point. If you want more people to join the fraternity of calories counters, it is suggested that they start out eating pre-packaged food, eggs, etc.
And another thought - You are more likely to get an accurate count that way (add 10% to the label if you want to), than doing it on your own.
And another thought - Weigh and measuring yogurt because it's in a large container? How about keeping an empty single-serve container, and scooping the yogurt from the large container into the single-serve container? No counting necessary.
Now I'm wondering if you are serious or not.
Fraternity of calorie counters? What is that?
Did we forget to show you the secret handshake? Message me and I'll fill you in. You did go through the initiation, right?
The one where you bathe in coke and get the secret motto written on your forehead in twinkie creme?
You also get a food scale with your name embossed in gold. It has a proximity sensor that only allows you to get a few feet from it before it starts beeping.12 -
DancingDaffydils wrote: »People who have no *kitten* clue about OCD should stop acting like they have any business telling others they are OCD. It is disrespectful to people who actually suffer from OCD. OCD isn't just an action. There has to be a detrimental thought process to go along with the action.
Signed
Someone who is actually diagnosed with OCD and has been able to thrive in life because I took the time to learn and understand what OCD is and to cope with it.
Exactly. The lack of knowledge of this anxiety disorder displayed in this thread is huge.9 -
Wow. It's really disheartening to see a mental illness be thrown out as an insult toward people who are using simply tools to meet their weight goals. Obviously we've got a very, very long way to go before the taboos and stigmas around mental illness are completely lifted.
On weighing: I went to 150 lbs to 130 lbs without weighing a thing. However, I had my calorie goal set to 1200, I didn't always eat my exercise calories, and I STILL lost weight slower than expected. Basically by setting MFP up so I was "undereating," I ate at about the right calorie level. Mentally, it really wasn't the healthiest thing - I thought I had to eat soooo little to lose weight, when really I just didn't have a good handle on portions.
To get from 130 to 120, I got a food scale and I raised my calorie goal. I was able to be more precise with calories and therefore more efficient, all while being in a better place mentally than I was before. I ended up eating fewer calories, but I also made more satiating choices once I realized what was going on.
Pre-scale vs. scale:
-Meats: didn't change much, I'd estimate based on the weight on the package and was pretty accurate
-Rice, grains, oatmeal, etc: WOW, I was overeating these things. I'd measure them, level the measuring cup, and log 1 serving. Really it should have been 1.15 to 1.2 servings, adding at least 30 calories to every serving.
-Protein powder: whoever calls a serving "1 scoop" is batty. Leveling off 1 scoop of my protein powder is about 1.6 servings.
-Fruit and veg: Pretty on point with these. My grocery store has scales where you print labels for produce yourself, so I already knew how much these things weighed. Avocados were the exception because of the skin and pits, and given how calorie dense they are, I'm glad I started weighing them.
-Cheese: My idea of what "1 oz" of cheese was definitely correlated to how much cheese I felt like eating. I could be way under or way over, but very rarely dead on.
-Packaged food like bread and tortillas: Inconsistent and all over the place for the brands I buy.
-My Quest bar this morning was 64g. The package assumes a 60g weight. It's only a 13 calorie difference, but I'd rather know about those 13 calories than not.
...In for my gold-embossed food scale.23
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