To build muscle how much weight do I have to be lifting?
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dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....
It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.
ideally, you want to be in the 10-14% range prior to running a bulk. I would suggest keep eating in a small deficit of 250 calories a day, keep your protein at about .8 grams per pound of body weight; fats at .45, and fill in rest with carbs/as needed.
I would also get on a structured lifting program that has progressive overload built into it. Once you hit 15% body fat you could run a recomp ...or go for a lower body fat and then bulk.
The problem with bulking at 20% is that most of your gains are going to be fat and not muscle.
Right so 250 below maintenance? My maintenance is 2060 so that's 1810 per day. The cut is gonna take a hell of a lot longer, the main reason I went 1500 is speed.
And look where that impatience has got you. Speed =/= best.
You continually get great, solid advice, you continually ignore it, do your own sweet thing and then come back to *kitten* about how little progress you're making. This time it's because you don't suddenly look like Adonis after 3 months lifting at maintenance on a raggedy program.
You think people get amazing physiques in 6 months from being 60lbs overweight and sedentary? Nope, not how it works. It takes a lifetime commitment.2 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....
It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.
ideally, you want to be in the 10-14% range prior to running a bulk. I would suggest keep eating in a small deficit of 250 calories a day, keep your protein at about .8 grams per pound of body weight; fats at .45, and fill in rest with carbs/as needed.
I would also get on a structured lifting program that has progressive overload built into it. Once you hit 15% body fat you could run a recomp ...or go for a lower body fat and then bulk.
The problem with bulking at 20% is that most of your gains are going to be fat and not muscle.
Right so 250 below maintenance? My maintenance is 2060 so that's 1810 per day. The cut is gonna take a hell of a lot longer, the main reason I went 1500 is speed.
and you probably lost a lot of muscle...what I am proposing is maintain as much mass as possible and get to a leaner body fat % and then run a bulk or recomp ...yes, it is going to take time, I would guess about four more months maybe six ...but there is no magical wand to wave...you did not get to your current state over-night and you cannot get out of it over-night...that is the truth ...we all have to start somewhere...
Where does this leave my lifting then? At the moment I am pi$$ing in the wind wasting my time as there won't be any gains and hasn't been since I started.
If you don't have the patience to follow the solid advice in this thread, then keep doing it the way you have been doing it and in six months to a year you will be in the same position as you are now;
OR
you can make the changes that we are suggesting and in six months to a year you will be in a totally different position ..
your choice...0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....
It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.
ideally, you want to be in the 10-14% range prior to running a bulk. I would suggest keep eating in a small deficit of 250 calories a day, keep your protein at about .8 grams per pound of body weight; fats at .45, and fill in rest with carbs/as needed.
I would also get on a structured lifting program that has progressive overload built into it. Once you hit 15% body fat you could run a recomp ...or go for a lower body fat and then bulk.
The problem with bulking at 20% is that most of your gains are going to be fat and not muscle.
Right so 250 below maintenance? My maintenance is 2060 so that's 1810 per day. The cut is gonna take a hell of a lot longer, the main reason I went 1500 is speed.
And look where that impatience has got you. Speed =/= best.
You continually get great, solid advice, you continually ignore it, do your own sweet thing and then come back to *kitten* about how little progress you're making. This time it's because you don't suddenly look like Adonis after 3 months lifting at maintenance on a raggedy program.
You think people get amazing physiques in 6 months from being 60lbs overweight and sedentary? Nope, not how it works. It takes a lifetime commitment.
Nope but I would have at least expected some results for what month 9 I am now into.0 -
Surely it's time for a flogging a dead horse gif?!2
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Right message received, drop 250 deficit and trust the process.3
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dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....
It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.
In all honesty, from looking at the pics you linked to earlier in the thread, you're much closer to 30% BF than you are to 20%. Running a bulk at high BF% increases the chance of more fat gain/less muscle gain. Read this article by Lyle McDonald which explains it in depth: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....
It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.
In all honesty, from looking at the pics you linked to earlier in the thread, you're much closer to 30% BF than you are to 20%. Running a bulk at high BF% increases the chance of more fat gain/less muscle gain. Read this article by Lyle McDonald which explains it in depth: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
You really know how to give a guy hope, so your saying this http://imgur.com/a/rC63w is 30% body fat?0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....
It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.
In all honesty, from looking at the pics you linked to earlier in the thread, you're much closer to 30% BF than you are to 20%. Running a bulk at high BF% increases the chance of more fat gain/less muscle gain. Read this article by Lyle McDonald which explains it in depth: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
You really know how to give a guy hope, so your saying this http://imgur.com/a/rC63w is 30% body fat?
My mistake. I was looking at the two pictures below that in your original link: http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0
If that top pic is a current one, then yes, I'd say you're somewhere in the vicinity of 20%.1 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....
It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.
In all honesty, from looking at the pics you linked to earlier in the thread, you're much closer to 30% BF than you are to 20%. Running a bulk at high BF% increases the chance of more fat gain/less muscle gain. Read this article by Lyle McDonald which explains it in depth: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
You really know how to give a guy hope, so your saying this http://imgur.com/a/rC63w is 30% body fat?
My mistake. I was looking at the two pictures below that in your original link: http://imgur.com/a/3NcH0
If that top pic is a current one, then yes, I'd say you're somewhere in the vicinity of 20%.
It was an interesting article, its not the first time I have heard that though that dieted folk are primed to regain fat compared to naturally lean people. Its why so many folk after a diet put the weight back on and a bit more I guess.
Easy mistake to make, looking at them pics myself you certainly not think there is a 60lbs difference between the top and bottom 2.0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Best advice these days seems to be to lift weights that have you in the 4-6 rep range (failing on last rep), which looks like what you are doing already.
You don't mention your diet beyond saying you're at maintenance. It's possible you're over-training and not eating enough. Some things you could try if you haven't already:
1. Check your macro nutrient breakdown, make sure you're getting enough protein.
2. Increasing calories to 200-300 above maintenance.
3. Reduce workout frequency, less can be more sometimes.
I hear this surplus a lot, My problem is OK I am in a healthy BMI but I am still fat well skinny fat, I don't want to make that problem worse which is why I am scared of surplus.
what is your current body fat %? you may not be lean enough to bulk yet and may benefit from eating in small deficit and continue lifting and then bulk or recomp....
It's 20% at least. Any form of deficit isn't building muscle though, even eating at maintaining didn't build any muscle.
In all honesty, from looking at the pics you linked to earlier in the thread, you're much closer to 30% BF than you are to 20%. Running a bulk at high BF% increases the chance of more fat gain/less muscle gain. Read this article by Lyle McDonald which explains it in depth: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
You really know how to give a guy hope, so your saying this http://imgur.com/a/rC63w is 30% body fat?
Lighting has a lot to do with how the pic looks. Try better lighting than the overhead-one-direction lighting. Take a side and back pic too and objectively analyze your photo or post it and get opinions.
You said you lost the weight fast, right? So maybe skin is adjusting (hard to tell in current pic). It also doesn't appear that you have love handles... Try a pic outside and or by a window. But put some pants on first!1 -
rainbowbow wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Are you eating in a surplus?
Gaining muscle requires progressive overload, not being able to lift a particular amount.
i think this is absolutely necessary.
NOT TO MENTION- You are currently training with the incorrect volume and rep ranges. For someone of your size, you seem to be pulling some pretty decent(okay) weight. it's not surprising though, because you've been training in the "maximal strength" ranges. Something that a lot of people don't know, being strong is not the same as looking good. Or another way of saying this, training for strength and training for aesthetics is totally different.
If you were my client and you came to me with this issue, this is what i'd do:
-firstly, confirming you're happy with your current level of body fat and want to focus solely on building muscle-
1.) ensure that you're eating in a small caloric surplus. since you're a newbie, you can expect to gain MAX about 2 pounds of muscle per month.I would have you eat roughly 250 extra calories a day.
2.) ensure that you're getting adequate carbohydrates and protein.
3.) You would train 4 days per week max, maybe even 3. Something i like to do with my clients is an every-other day training schedule. So one week it's 3 days, the next week it's four days.
4.) When you're in the gym, i'd probably put you on an upper/lower body split. this way you have ample time for rest and recovery in between workouts.
5.) You'd be lifting in the "hypertrophy" range: 6-12 reps, 3-5 sets, with about 60 seconds rest. Mostly compound lifts, with some accessory as needed and only towards the end of the workout.
6.) We'd focus on proper recovery from training: i.e. stretching, foam rolling, good sleep, plenty of water, making sure to eat enough, etc.
7.) Each 6 weeks or so we'd switch things up with the exercises (to account for adaptations)
I am fairly certain that if you employ the above you should start seeing some pretty great results in the next 6 months or so. It will be difficult at first to see some real "gains" mostly because of your current level of body fat, but, keep at it and you can cut later.
p.s. here's a guide to acute variables of training.
What do the numbers next to the tempo in this chart mean? 4/21, 2/0/2?
The tempo is basically the number of seconds spent in each phase of the lift. Using the 4/2/1 tempo as an example, that would be a 4-second eccentric, 2-second pause at the peak, and then 1-second concentric.0 -
I'm sorry. But you're an idiot. Gains are not from lifting, they're from diet, unless you're going for pure strength, which will still be largely in part due to a solid diet and surplus. If you're at 20%. Cut to 12%. It takes time. I spent 3.5 months just to lose 10lbs, 3 months later in back up 6lbs. It's an endless cycle of 2 steps forward, 1 step back. That Is why it takes so damn long. Learn to lift properly, try and maximize your strength gains while on a cut in order to be able to stimulate that much more muscle fibres when you bulk again through overload. Just always make sure you're the hardest worker in the gym, it's an amazing motivator. But yes I agree with others. Re read this damn thread. Take it all in with out skepticism1
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Here you go. The first 2 are lifting in a deficit.
1. Weight 153lbs 7-8%bf March 1st
2. Weight 155lbs 6-8%bf August 9th
3. Weight 167lbs 7%bf May 10th.
See how in 8 months There was 10lbs more muscle built through surplus than In 4 months through deficit?1 -
Here you go. The first 2 are lifting in a deficit.
1. Weight 153lbs 7-8%bf March 1st
2. Weight 155lbs 6-8%bf August 9th
3. Weight 167lbs 7%bf May 10th.
See how in 8 months There was 10lbs more muscle built through surplus than In 4 months through deficit?
WOW excellent results. This will probably sound stupid but anyway. If your not going to build muscle in a deficit whats the point of lifting? Sure my strength has went up, I am lifting more than my body weight in a lot of lifts but I have nothing to show for it. They also talk about newbie gains, being in a deficit I take it I have also ruled myself out of that?0 -
Volume training. 16 sets minimum per body part with a rep range from 8-15.
Calorie surplus. 250-500 over TDEE.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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dave_in_ni wrote: »
Here you go. The first 2 are lifting in a deficit.
1. Weight 153lbs 7-8%bf March 1st
2. Weight 155lbs 6-8%bf August 9th
3. Weight 167lbs 7%bf May 10th.
See how in 8 months There was 10lbs more muscle built through surplus than In 4 months through deficit?
WOW excellent results. This will probably sound stupid but anyway. If your not going to build muscle in a deficit whats the point of lifting? Sure my strength has went up, I am lifting more than my body weight in a lot of lifts but I have nothing to show for it. They also talk about newbie gains, being in a deficit I take it I have also ruled myself out of that?
This has been answered already. Several times. Read through your threads and actually take time to reflect on what people write.2 -
To build strength and retain muscle mass. You can create and maintain a deficit purely from lifting if you so choose.0
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Volume training. 16 sets minimum per body part with a rep range from 8-15.
Calorie surplus. 250-500 over TDEE.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My sets aren't quite 16. But close to it. My reps range from 5-15. I have developed lower body muscle. I lift heavy compound weights 5x5 and superset a match for squats and presses. Then I finish with some heavy hip thrusts and/or circuits (light weights). I eat around maintenance and fill up on protein before anything else.
If you have developed and feel confident with your strong strength base, you may progress better on another program.
I think eating well with lots of protein and maintaining strength with heavy lifts is primary to keep any muscle. To build muscle you may want to add volume and eat a bit more.0 -
Everyone starts somewhere. Practice with dumbbells first to get a feel for what you can handle as far as weight goes. When i started going to the gym i started with 2 15pound dumbells and did 4 sets, 12 reps per set. Over a few weeks i was up to 55 pound dumbells doing the same 4 sets, 12 reps a set or until i failed. Just keep adding weight, but keep the reps and sets the same so you keep moving up. If your arms arent burning, up the reps, or up the weight. For the people who know what they are doing, and are serious about growth now, you might want to look into bulking, I would suggest heading over to bodybuilding.com its awesome for what you are looking for, they have a community just like this one.0
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