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Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat

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  • J72FITJ72FIT Member Posts: 5,896 Member Member Posts: 5,896 Member
    tigerblue wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    tigerblue wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    njsa95 wrote: »
    Where can we learn more about recomposition? I am at a weight im okay with, and have 20 to 23% BF depending on the method of measurement;all i really want right now is to recompose so i have more muscle as opposed to fat. (The jigggly bit between my thighs is still there,for example, whereas everywhere else i have slimmed down).
    I currently do kickboxing 4 times a week, and bodyweight resistance training--not much else.is there a way to recompose with just this or must i lift?

    -- progressive overload. Bodyweight resistance training alone isn't enough to recomp because your goal is to increase muscles. You have to progressively increase your weights to build muscle.


    I would have to disagree. I would say a better way to say this is it is far more difficult do recomp with bodyweight training because to increase load you have to get very creative. Gymnasts generally only do bodyweight training, but they are really built. Weights make it much much easier, and quicker.

    Yes I think anyone involved in gymnastic strength training would agree that body weight training is enough to recoup. To a point of course...

    Also, competitive swimmers. Although they do some weight training eventually. But they build some amazing muscles using mostly bodyweight and water resistance. I should post pix of my young men!

    But I think the point is that you are still progressing with reps or time spent when you are using bodyweight. At some point, the time spent/number of reps will become cumbersome. And actual lifting while adding resistance (weight) is more efficient.

    Not essentially about reps. The body weight exercises have to progress to more challenging ones. Example would be a pike press with feet on the floor, then feet elevated, then full on handstand press up...

    Good points here and above. For me, it is difficult to add more challenge without it being too much. I am past the "beginner" stage but don't necessarily have the balance, coordination, strength, athleticism, etc to progress to the harder exercises. I did some video programs and ran into this roadblock near the end of the programs.

    But with weights you can progress more gradually. A few pounds added instead of 10 lbs added,etc.

    So it is definitely simpler and more efficient to do weight training if you can.

    The allure with weight training is that you can progress faster. Sometimes at the expense of connective tissue...
  • FatMoojorFatMoojor Member Posts: 483 Member Member Posts: 483 Member
    So once again I have found myself at the point of not knowing what to do. I was all set for doing a cut/bulk but I think over the last couple of months of trying to lose the last 5lbs or so I have come to realise that I just don’t enjoy the whole cut part of the process.

    I have always said that any diet changes I make have to be total life style changes and with that in mind I just can’t see me doing cut/bulk cycles for the rest of my life.

    So that means I have to really throw myself in to recomping, so my plan, as of today is to give recomp a proper try. That means at least 1 whole year of this.

    So bit of information about me. I’m male, 5’7, 145lbs, BF around 17%-18%.

    My sport of choice though is running, most notably, ultra-distances. I guess the hardest part of this is going to be getting in the training for both running and lifting heavy. My plan is to run 5 days a week, use SL5x5 2 days a week and do kettlebell training on either Sat/Sun as well as a long run.

    I guess my question is, what advice people have for someone who is trying to recomp while still maintaining long distance running?

    Also, if you aren’t using the tdee method, is there an “average” amount per hour calorie burned for lifting or is it far too much based on level of effort etc?.

    For running, you can normally be pretty close if you just go with 100 calories per mile run.
  • sijomialsijomial Member Posts: 18,991 Member Member Posts: 18,991 Member
    @FatMoojor
    Lifter and long distance cyclist here....

    Not saying that cut/bulk cycles are the right thing for you but they definitely don't have to be done for life. It's a way of getting to your goal rather than a goal in itself. (I've never needed or wanted to do them myself - always been contrary to my goals and needs.....)

    Hardest thing for me having a mixed and heavy exercise load is to balance the fatigue / training impact/ recovery impact on my legs. Remember though I'm 20 years older than you. :(
    I do limited leg work and it also tends to be at the beginning of the week so they recover in time for my next long ride. I weight train x3 a week, 2 or even 3 sessions may just be upper body depending on my cycling plans, training and recovery. You do have to listen to your body rather than have a totally regimented plan. Generally I'm alternating weights and cycling day by day. There's always a part of me recovering!

    I just log my weight training under the MFP (cardio diary) category of "strength training" - it's a very rough estimate based on your weights and METS. To be honest the very small number (230/hour'ish?) is lost in the general high cardio calorie burns over the week so it's not that crucial to worry about accuracy, not that it can be measured anyway.
    edited October 2016
  • tigerbluetigerblue Member Posts: 1,623 Member Member Posts: 1,623 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    tigerblue wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    tigerblue wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    njsa95 wrote: »
    Where can we learn more about recomposition? I am at a weight im okay with, and have 20 to 23% BF depending on the method of measurement;all i really want right now is to recompose so i have more muscle as opposed to fat. (The jigggly bit between my thighs is still there,for example, whereas everywhere else i have slimmed down).
    I currently do kickboxing 4 times a week, and bodyweight resistance training--not much else.is there a way to recompose with just this or must i lift?

    -- progressive overload. Bodyweight resistance training alone isn't enough to recomp because your goal is to increase muscles. You have to progressively increase your weights to build muscle.


    I would have to disagree. I would say a better way to say this is it is far more difficult do recomp with bodyweight training because to increase load you have to get very creative. Gymnasts generally only do bodyweight training, but they are really built. Weights make it much much easier, and quicker.

    Yes I think anyone involved in gymnastic strength training would agree that body weight training is enough to recoup. To a point of course...

    Also, competitive swimmers. Although they do some weight training eventually. But they build some amazing muscles using mostly bodyweight and water resistance. I should post pix of my young men!

    But I think the point is that you are still progressing with reps or time spent when you are using bodyweight. At some point, the time spent/number of reps will become cumbersome. And actual lifting while adding resistance (weight) is more efficient.

    Not essentially about reps. The body weight exercises have to progress to more challenging ones. Example would be a pike press with feet on the floor, then feet elevated, then full on handstand press up...

    Good points here and above. For me, it is difficult to add more challenge without it being too much. I am past the "beginner" stage but don't necessarily have the balance, coordination, strength, athleticism, etc to progress to the harder exercises. I did some video programs and ran into this roadblock near the end of the programs.

    But with weights you can progress more gradually. A few pounds added instead of 10 lbs added,etc.

    So it is definitely simpler and more efficient to do weight training if you can.

    The allure with weight training is that you can progress faster. Sometimes at the expense of connective tissue...

    What I meant was you can add difficulty more gradually if you want. (Or more quickly too, I guess). It is more easily customizable.

    And what you said is probably true too, as far as results.
  • J72FITJ72FIT Member Posts: 5,896 Member Member Posts: 5,896 Member
    tigerblue wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    tigerblue wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    tigerblue wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    njsa95 wrote: »
    Where can we learn more about recomposition? I am at a weight im okay with, and have 20 to 23% BF depending on the method of measurement;all i really want right now is to recompose so i have more muscle as opposed to fat. (The jigggly bit between my thighs is still there,for example, whereas everywhere else i have slimmed down).
    I currently do kickboxing 4 times a week, and bodyweight resistance training--not much else.is there a way to recompose with just this or must i lift?

    -- progressive overload. Bodyweight resistance training alone isn't enough to recomp because your goal is to increase muscles. You have to progressively increase your weights to build muscle.


    I would have to disagree. I would say a better way to say this is it is far more difficult do recomp with bodyweight training because to increase load you have to get very creative. Gymnasts generally only do bodyweight training, but they are really built. Weights make it much much easier, and quicker.

    Yes I think anyone involved in gymnastic strength training would agree that body weight training is enough to recoup. To a point of course...

    Also, competitive swimmers. Although they do some weight training eventually. But they build some amazing muscles using mostly bodyweight and water resistance. I should post pix of my young men!

    But I think the point is that you are still progressing with reps or time spent when you are using bodyweight. At some point, the time spent/number of reps will become cumbersome. And actual lifting while adding resistance (weight) is more efficient.

    Not essentially about reps. The body weight exercises have to progress to more challenging ones. Example would be a pike press with feet on the floor, then feet elevated, then full on handstand press up...

    Good points here and above. For me, it is difficult to add more challenge without it being too much. I am past the "beginner" stage but don't necessarily have the balance, coordination, strength, athleticism, etc to progress to the harder exercises. I did some video programs and ran into this roadblock near the end of the programs.

    But with weights you can progress more gradually. A few pounds added instead of 10 lbs added,etc.

    So it is definitely simpler and more efficient to do weight training if you can.

    The allure with weight training is that you can progress faster. Sometimes at the expense of connective tissue...

    What I meant was you can add difficulty more gradually if you want. (Or more quickly too, I guess). It is more easily customizable.

    And what you said is probably true too, as far as results.

    It's definitely easier to progress. Bodyweight training can be frustrating because in order to progress you have to be really patient...
  • VanVanDianeVanVanDiane Member Posts: 1,134 Member Member Posts: 1,134 Member
    Bookmarking - good thread
  • girlgrovesgirlgroves Member Posts: 235 Member Member Posts: 235 Member
    DebSozo wrote: »
    njsa95 wrote: »
    Where can we learn more about recomposition? I am at a weight im okay with, and have 20 to 23% BF depending on the method of measurement;all i really want right now is to recompose so i have more muscle as opposed to fat. (The jigggly bit between my thighs is still there,for example, whereas everywhere else i have slimmed down).
    I currently do kickboxing 4 times a week, and bodyweight resistance training--not much else.is there a way to recompose with just this or must i lift?

    -- progressive overload. Bodyweight resistance training alone isn't enough to recomp because your goal is to increase muscles. You have to progressively increase your weights to build muscle.


    Out of interest - is it possible to use weight resistance machines (I'm thinking about those at my gym for example) and progressively increase the weights on those to the same effect? I'm really interested in recomping now that I'm getting the hang of maintaining, and whilst I'm a bit (read 'incredibly'!) terrified of the free weights section of the gym, I'm fine with using the machines.

    Thanks
  • DebSozoDebSozo Member Posts: 2,578 Member Member Posts: 2,578 Member
    girlgroves wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    njsa95 wrote: »
    Where can we learn more about recomposition? I am at a weight im okay with, and have 20 to 23% BF depending on the method of measurement;all i really want right now is to recompose so i have more muscle as opposed to fat. (The jigggly bit between my thighs is still there,for example, whereas everywhere else i have slimmed down).
    I currently do kickboxing 4 times a week, and bodyweight resistance training--not much else.is there a way to recompose with just this or must i lift?

    -- progressive overload. Bodyweight resistance training alone isn't enough to recomp because your goal is to increase muscles. You have to progressively increase your weights to build muscle.


    Out of interest - is it possible to use weight resistance machines (I'm thinking about those at my gym for example) and progressively increase the weights on those to the same effect? I'm really interested in recomping now that I'm getting the hang of maintaining, and whilst I'm a bit (read 'incredibly'!) terrified of the free weights section of the gym, I'm fine with using the machines.

    Thanks

    I love the machines.
  • feisty_bucketfeisty_bucket Member Posts: 1,033 Member Member Posts: 1,033 Member
    girlgroves wrote: »
    is it possible to use weight resistance machines (I'm thinking about those at my gym for example) and progressively increase the weights on those to the same effect?

    Sure, the principles are the same.
    I'm a bit (read 'incredibly'!) terrified of the free weights section of the gym

    "Terrified" is a very strong word. So what's this about?
  • heybalesheybales Member Posts: 19,291 Member Member Posts: 19,291 Member
    girlgroves wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    njsa95 wrote: »
    Where can we learn more about recomposition? I am at a weight im okay with, and have 20 to 23% BF depending on the method of measurement;all i really want right now is to recompose so i have more muscle as opposed to fat. (The jigggly bit between my thighs is still there,for example, whereas everywhere else i have slimmed down).
    I currently do kickboxing 4 times a week, and bodyweight resistance training--not much else.is there a way to recompose with just this or must i lift?

    -- progressive overload. Bodyweight resistance training alone isn't enough to recomp because your goal is to increase muscles. You have to progressively increase your weights to build muscle.


    Out of interest - is it possible to use weight resistance machines (I'm thinking about those at my gym for example) and progressively increase the weights on those to the same effect? I'm really interested in recomping now that I'm getting the hang of maintaining, and whilst I'm a bit (read 'incredibly'!) terrified of the free weights section of the gym, I'm fine with using the machines.

    Thanks

    Sure - you just don't build up the supporting muscles as much/at all when a machine focuses on specific muscle.

    Some machines now are trying to duplicate free weights in that they use compound movements - like a chest press or pull-back machine or lat machine, so at least engaging more than 1 muscle, but still not the smaller supporting muscles.

    So when you make a transition to free, you have to go back to lighter weight almost always to build those back up.

    Those supporting muscles is what makes it more functional too for real life - if that is ever needed.

    Like carrying dog food! ;-)
  • sijomialsijomial Member Posts: 18,991 Member Member Posts: 18,991 Member
    girlgroves wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    njsa95 wrote: »
    Where can we learn more about recomposition? I am at a weight im okay with, and have 20 to 23% BF depending on the method of measurement;all i really want right now is to recompose so i have more muscle as opposed to fat. (The jigggly bit between my thighs is still there,for example, whereas everywhere else i have slimmed down).
    I currently do kickboxing 4 times a week, and bodyweight resistance training--not much else.is there a way to recompose with just this or must i lift?

    -- progressive overload. Bodyweight resistance training alone isn't enough to recomp because your goal is to increase muscles. You have to progressively increase your weights to build muscle.


    Out of interest - is it possible to use weight resistance machines (I'm thinking about those at my gym for example) and progressively increase the weights on those to the same effect? I'm really interested in recomping now that I'm getting the hang of maintaining, and whilst I'm a bit (read 'incredibly'!) terrified of the free weights section of the gym, I'm fine with using the machines.

    Thanks

    @girlgroves
    Absolutely.
    I still use them for some of my lifting after 4 decades of training. Nice and quick set up, no spotter required, convenient.... Plus a lot of modern machines are far better/more complex than the simple pivot/lever type that was the norm back in the Dark Ages.

    Please don't be terrified of the free weights area - it's just normal people in a room picking things up and putting them down again. :)
  • griffinca2griffinca2 Member Posts: 672 Member Member Posts: 672 Member
    girlgroves, Free weights are probably a little scary at first, but heybales is right abt transitioning to free weights. Just pick some easier exercises (i.e. bicep curls) and use a lighter weight. I use as many free weights (depending on what I am doing) as I can, but use machines for some exercises. I use a Smith machine for my squats (can go heavier w/less chance of injury). B)
  • J72FITJ72FIT Member Posts: 5,896 Member Member Posts: 5,896 Member
    girlgroves wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    njsa95 wrote: »
    Where can we learn more about recomposition? I am at a weight im okay with, and have 20 to 23% BF depending on the method of measurement;all i really want right now is to recompose so i have more muscle as opposed to fat. (The jigggly bit between my thighs is still there,for example, whereas everywhere else i have slimmed down).
    I currently do kickboxing 4 times a week, and bodyweight resistance training--not much else.is there a way to recompose with just this or must i lift?

    -- progressive overload. Bodyweight resistance training alone isn't enough to recomp because your goal is to increase muscles. You have to progressively increase your weights to build muscle.


    Out of interest - is it possible to use weight resistance machines (I'm thinking about those at my gym for example) and progressively increase the weights on those to the same effect? I'm really interested in recomping now that I'm getting the hang of maintaining, and whilst I'm a bit (read 'incredibly'!) terrified of the free weights section of the gym, I'm fine with using the machines.

    Thanks

    You absolutely can. Sometimes I prefer them as I find them a little easier on my joints...
  • girlgrovesgirlgroves Member Posts: 235 Member Member Posts: 235 Member
    Thank you for all the replies - that's really good to know. Any recommendations on what kind of timescales/increments I should be aiming for when increasing the weight?

    @feistybucket, @sijomial - I think I'd be less terrified trying out the free weights section if I knew what I was doing! It's not the people I find terrifying or even the thought of picking things up - I'm willing to give that a go - it's just that I've no idea how to do it safely without injuring myself! I suspect there's a right and a wrong way to lift free weights and a certain amount of technique and good form required? Having had issues with my back in the past I'd be worried about hurting myself!
  • njsa95njsa95 Member Posts: 4 Member Member Posts: 4 Member
    robininfl wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    DebSozo wrote: »
    njsa95 wrote: »
    Where can we learn more about recomposition? I am at a weight im okay with, and have 20 to 23% BF depending on the method of measurement;all i really want right now is to recompose so i have more muscle as opposed to fat. (The jigggly bit between my thighs is still there,for example, whereas everywhere else i have slimmed down).
    I currently do kickboxing 4 times a week, and bodyweight resistance training--not much else.is there a way to recompose with just this or must i lift?

    -- progressive overload. Bodyweight resistance training alone isn't enough to recomp because your goal is to increase muscles. You have to progressively increase your weights to build muscle.


    I would have to disagree. I would say a better way to say this is it is far more difficult do recomp with bodyweight training because to increase load you have to get very creative. Gymnasts generally only do bodyweight training, but they are really built. Weights make it much much easier, and quicker.

    Yes I think anyone involved in gymnastic strength training would agree that body weight training is enough to recoup. To a point of course...

    Agreed have you seen how shredded the U.S. Women's olympic gymnasts are? I mean I know they're olympic gymnasts and probably incorporate strength training, but their eight pack abs seriously give bodybuilders a run for their money. Body weight exercise can recomp the body, it will just be slower than a traditional strength training program.

    They have to worry about strength to weight ratio - simply adding mass to be stronger doesn't help you in acrobatics, because then you are heavier. They need to have lotsa fast twitch muscle fibers and lots of strength but not more muscle than they need, because at some point those lines cross, and the extra weight works against you.

    I think like this too - my athletic goals are based more on my body than an absolute weight. I want things like stand on my hands, do ten pull ups easily, pike up to headstand, or to run faster or farther. As long as I can carry the 50lb bag of dog food when it's on sale with "15% MORE!" then I feel strong enough in an absolute sense.

    Those are my goals too.i think it would be accurate to say that i want the strength and body of a gymnast--bodyweight strong without having too much mass --as i am naturally small anyway.
    I dont think you can use weights for that correct?

  • griffinca2griffinca2 Member Posts: 672 Member Member Posts: 672 Member
    girlgroves, Check out Bodybuilding.com; they list all kinds of exercises for all body parts. They also have demonstrations on how to do them correctly. Also, any good book store will have books in the health and wellness section on weight lifting. Keep in mind, form is more important then how much weight you are lifting. Start out with light weights, get the form down and then start to increase your sets, reps, and weights. Good luck! B)
  • _benjammin_benjammin Member Posts: 1,224 Member Member Posts: 1,224 Member

    "Those are my goals too.i think it would be accurate to say that i want the strength and body of a gymnast--bodyweight strong without having too much mass --as i am naturally small anyway.
    I dont think you can use weights for that correct?"

    No. Weight training will help you reach your strength and aesthetic goals. You only get big by eating big and years of training to get big.

  • griffinca2griffinca2 Member Posts: 672 Member Member Posts: 672 Member
    And as a note: most women don't get big--there are a few exceptions. If women do get big they are either eating lots of protein and/or taking something. Benjammmin is correct; weight training will help you reach your strength and aesthetic goals and increase your metabolism.
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