Don't deprive yourself or you'll never last the distance!
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cgreen120288 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »Well...one person's deprivation is another's moderation, or vice versa. One man's feast is another man's famine.
Dieting is easy in concept but much harder in practice. It requires planning (some form of calorie managing, budgeting) and discipline; and if you're not good at these skills you'll always have a hard time.
There's another approach to very effective dieting: don't love food too much. I know a few people like this. They remain thin, fit, effortlessly.
This - it's all person specific. Nothing is impossible.
I'm eating in a 800-900cal per day deficit at the minute, no problems whatsoever. I'm not gonna binge lol
I think how hard your deficit feels has a lot more to do with it as a percentage of your total intake than it as a number.
In otherwords my 750 calorie deficit feels much more manageable when my TDEE is 3500 than when my TDEE is 2000.
The problem isn't so much fit muscular athletic people who have large deficits (from their large TDEEs) it is low muscle smaller overweight people who are sedentary with low TDEEs trying to eat at huge deficits.
Eating at a 900 calorie deficit when your TDEE is like 3500 (which I'm guessing yours is if not more) is not a big deal. Eating at a 900 calorie deficit when your TDEE is 1800 is a problem though.17 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The rush to lose weight really is the one that gets to me. It's often part of the mentality that I call the "fixit" mentality. Dieting should be about learning, not about patching something up and then moving on in ignorance. I think too many people, thanks to media and diet gurus have the idea that dieting is something you can do and then be done with. That's why people regain weight.
Deprivation is part of "fixit"-ism. I'm not talking about people who avoid something because they can't control themselves around it, that's just being smart (I'm thinking of you, Trader Joe's pumpkin spice caramel corn which for me is the whole bag or bust). Like others in this thread, I'm talking about the huge deficit and only salads types. That's not learning anything about how to live a life where you're having a healthy relationship with food and learning to make smart choices and balancing nutrition and enjoyment while balancing energy needs. And all of that is vital to long term success.
TL:DR - Too many people aren't focused on the big picture.
Agree with all this but especially the bolded. I've posted this many times, but I've noticed something on these boards with regards to the desire to lose weight quickly. In every other aspect of our lives we lament how quickly time passes. "Where did the summer go? How can it be time for school to start again? Why are the kids growing up so fast? Wish I could just slow things down and enjoy the moment"...
EXCEPT for weight loss. When it comes to weight loss we want it fast, we want to get it over with as quickly as possible. And I think it's because people think weight loss = suffering. Anything we think is going to be unpleasant we want to just do as quickly as possible "time to remove the bandage, this may hurt, ok, just get it over with"...
If people approached weight loss with a moderate deficit, focused on learning new healthy habits and enjoying new foods and old favorites while still losing weight, I think they may realize that it can actually be an enjoyable process and not one that needs to be rushed through in order to achieve the end as quickly as possible.24 -
Don't deprive yourself or you'll never last the distance!
How would you let a newbie know they don't have to do this?
This is how I would let them know:
Over 4-1/2 years on MFP, almost 3 years on maintenance. Age 65. SW 290#, CW 130#.
The first 2 months on MFP, I was afraid to eat some foods. Then I read a post here basically about all foods in moderation. That was June of 2012. Ever since then, I have ate all foods that I like, paying attention to serving sizes and working it into my daily calorie limits. I did this while losing weight and have been doing it on maintenance.
It works newbies! Really it does.
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WinoGelato wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The rush to lose weight really is the one that gets to me. It's often part of the mentality that I call the "fixit" mentality. Dieting should be about learning, not about patching something up and then moving on in ignorance. I think too many people, thanks to media and diet gurus have the idea that dieting is something you can do and then be done with. That's why people regain weight.
Deprivation is part of "fixit"-ism. I'm not talking about people who avoid something because they can't control themselves around it, that's just being smart (I'm thinking of you, Trader Joe's pumpkin spice caramel corn which for me is the whole bag or bust). Like others in this thread, I'm talking about the huge deficit and only salads types. That's not learning anything about how to live a life where you're having a healthy relationship with food and learning to make smart choices and balancing nutrition and enjoyment while balancing energy needs. And all of that is vital to long term success.
TL:DR - Too many people aren't focused on the big picture.
Agree with all this but especially the bolded. I've posted this many times, but I've noticed something on these boards with regards to the desire to lose weight quickly. In every other aspect of our lives we lament how quickly time passes. "Where did the summer go? How can it be time for school to start again? Why are the kids growing up so fast? Wish I could just slow things down and enjoy the moment"...
EXCEPT for weight loss. When it comes to weight loss we want it fast, we want to get it over with as quickly as possible. And I think it's because people think weight loss = suffering. Anything we think is going to be unpleasant we want to just do as quickly as possible "time to remove the bandage, this may hurt, ok, just get it over with"...
If people approached weight loss with a moderate deficit, focused on learning new healthy habits and enjoying new foods and old favorites while still losing weight, I think they may realize that it can actually be an enjoyable process and not one that needs to be rushed through in order to achieve the end as quickly as possible.
I don't think it's about feeling the need to suffer. I think it's a combination of disbelief that it COULD possibly be this simple and the quote from "When Harry met Sally"..."when you realize that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you want the rest of your life to begin as soon as possible"6 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The rush to lose weight really is the one that gets to me. It's often part of the mentality that I call the "fixit" mentality. Dieting should be about learning, not about patching something up and then moving on in ignorance. I think too many people, thanks to media and diet gurus have the idea that dieting is something you can do and then be done with. That's why people regain weight.
Deprivation is part of "fixit"-ism. I'm not talking about people who avoid something because they can't control themselves around it, that's just being smart (I'm thinking of you, Trader Joe's pumpkin spice caramel corn which for me is the whole bag or bust). Like others in this thread, I'm talking about the huge deficit and only salads types. That's not learning anything about how to live a life where you're having a healthy relationship with food and learning to make smart choices and balancing nutrition and enjoyment while balancing energy needs. And all of that is vital to long term success.
TL:DR - Too many people aren't focused on the big picture.
Agree with all this but especially the bolded. I've posted this many times, but I've noticed something on these boards with regards to the desire to lose weight quickly. In every other aspect of our lives we lament how quickly time passes. "Where did the summer go? How can it be time for school to start again? Why are the kids growing up so fast? Wish I could just slow things down and enjoy the moment"...
EXCEPT for weight loss. When it comes to weight loss we want it fast, we want to get it over with as quickly as possible. And I think it's because people think weight loss = suffering. Anything we think is going to be unpleasant we want to just do as quickly as possible "time to remove the bandage, this may hurt, ok, just get it over with"...
If people approached weight loss with a moderate deficit, focused on learning new healthy habits and enjoying new foods and old favorites while still losing weight, I think they may realize that it can actually be an enjoyable process and not one that needs to be rushed through in order to achieve the end as quickly as possible.
I don't think it's about feeling the need to suffer. I think it's a combination of disbelief that it COULD possibly be this simple and the quote from "When Harry met Sally"..."when you realize that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you want the rest of your life to begin as soon as possible"
The problem is that people equate "the rest of your life" with being thin.
That's not really the point.
Being thin is a side effect of learning healthy habits for the body you want to have.
A lot of people who have weight to lose have many issues surrounding food, the least of which start with the fact that they don't even know what a proper portion size is or how much food they should be eating to fuel a normal weight for their height. Dieting should be all about learning all of this and taking it on board, learning what foods help you accomplish this without suffering, and and resolving any issues that might have led you to overeat in the first place.
It's not just about wanting to get to the end. People focused on wanting to be thin are missing the point.9 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The rush to lose weight really is the one that gets to me. It's often part of the mentality that I call the "fixit" mentality. Dieting should be about learning, not about patching something up and then moving on in ignorance. I think too many people, thanks to media and diet gurus have the idea that dieting is something you can do and then be done with. That's why people regain weight.
Deprivation is part of "fixit"-ism. I'm not talking about people who avoid something because they can't control themselves around it, that's just being smart (I'm thinking of you, Trader Joe's pumpkin spice caramel corn which for me is the whole bag or bust). Like others in this thread, I'm talking about the huge deficit and only salads types. That's not learning anything about how to live a life where you're having a healthy relationship with food and learning to make smart choices and balancing nutrition and enjoyment while balancing energy needs. And all of that is vital to long term success.
TL:DR - Too many people aren't focused on the big picture.
Agree with all this but especially the bolded. I've posted this many times, but I've noticed something on these boards with regards to the desire to lose weight quickly. In every other aspect of our lives we lament how quickly time passes. "Where did the summer go? How can it be time for school to start again? Why are the kids growing up so fast? Wish I could just slow things down and enjoy the moment"...
EXCEPT for weight loss. When it comes to weight loss we want it fast, we want to get it over with as quickly as possible. And I think it's because people think weight loss = suffering. Anything we think is going to be unpleasant we want to just do as quickly as possible "time to remove the bandage, this may hurt, ok, just get it over with"...
If people approached weight loss with a moderate deficit, focused on learning new healthy habits and enjoying new foods and old favorites while still losing weight, I think they may realize that it can actually be an enjoyable process and not one that needs to be rushed through in order to achieve the end as quickly as possible.
I don't think it's about feeling the need to suffer. I think it's a combination of disbelief that it COULD possibly be this simple and the quote from "When Harry met Sally"..."when you realize that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you want the rest of your life to begin as soon as possible"
I didn't mean to suggest that people feel the need to suffer. I agree with the rest, people just can't believe it doesn't have to be a miserable experience, to lose weight. It's not easy, but it is simple, and by learning healthy habits it can be something that they enjoy as a true "lifestyle change" not just a means to an end.0 -
Thank you! This is so, so true. I wish I'd realized this years ago, but I think it takes time to sink in, especially because a lot of people approach weight loss with a lot of emotional baggage. When you're in that mindset, a perceived failure in the way you eat feels more like a failure of self. It's the perception of failure that caused me to give up so many times in the past, but as long as you keep trying and stay mindful of your eating habits and choices, even if some days you don't eat the way you hoped you would, you'll make progress. It's amazing what a difference being kind to yourself makes.
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snowflake930 wrote: »Don't deprive yourself or you'll never last the distance!
How would you let a newbie know they don't have to do this?
This is how I would let them know:
Over 4-1/2 years on MFP, almost 3 years on maintenance. Age 65. SW 290#, CW 130#.
The first 2 months on MFP, I was afraid to eat some foods. Then I read a post here basically about all foods in moderation. That was June of 2012. Ever since then, I have ate all foods that I like, paying attention to serving sizes and working it into my daily calorie limits. I did this while losing weight and have been doing it on maintenance.
It works newbies! Really it does.
Thank you, that's awesome!
I'm 49, and joined MFP in April 2015. I ate whatever I most wanted within my calorie limit and lost 80 lbs and reached my goal weight in April 2016, and have maintained my goal weight since then.
I had some chocolate and alcohol most days. Don't get me wrong, I also ate a hell of a lot of seafood and veg.
I did/do a lot of walking and running, and eat back 100% of my exercise calories.
I'm the healthiest and happiest I've ever been.
Moderation works!
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Whilst I agree with the general sentiment here wholeheartedly I do get a bit irked at the "x is impossible" comments. Yes, it is all about the deficit, no-one needs to deprive themselves, new habits need to be made etc, but that doesn't mean that those of use who do manage larger deficits by exactly those choices are doing anything wrong, or that it can't be maintained.
Let's all agree on the concept, without the negative views of how people different to ourselves implement the same concept.6 -
This topic is so fascinating. I too bought into that weight management equals deprivation. I think it's only human to expect that a large problem needs a complicated solution. Understanding that a lifestyle has to be sustainable to be called a lifestyle, took me sooo long. It's not that I hadn't been told, I just didn't believe it. If it were easy to convince people that weight management doesn't have to be that difficult, it wouldn't have taken me 45 years to realize.12
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IMO it is easier to make people believe you can do it "fast" than it is to make them believe in doing it right. I mean how many commercials for "XYZ" product do you see daily that say "You can look like this in 6 weeks. Send us $19.99". Of course then the fine print reads "results are not typical". Doing it right takes a level of self-commitment. You have to want it bad enough. Listening to the wrong messages daily, trying the "message" and failing makes most people feel defeated. So when they see the "do this right, it will work", they question it because they've already in their mind "failed" repeatedly. Like I said, IMO and YMMV.3
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Anything worth having is worth sacrificing for.
Typically, I like to eat breakfast out, with multiple cups of coffee, and top the whole thing off with dessert.
When I'm on a cut, however, I eschew this practice.
No, I don't want to starve myself the rest of the week, and "bank" those calories.
No, I don't want to have some wimpy version of the experience.
No, I don't want some cauliflower substitute for it.
I want the real thing, in all its immoderate glory.
I have no problem sticking to this for as long as I'm running a deficit. Why? Because I want to get to goal, and start my bulk.
This works for me.
I realize that it may not work for everyone, however. Just because the destination is the same (CICO) doesn't mean we all have to follow the same path.10 -
LiminalAscendance wrote: »Anything worth having is worth sacrificing for.
I realize that it may not work for everyone, however. Just because the destination is the same (CICO) doesn't mean we all have to follow the same path.
These are true words. The best advice I can give to anyone is, "find what works for you, and stick with your program". There is no wrong or right way to get there, just what works for each of us and will be sustainable in the long term.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The rush to lose weight really is the one that gets to me. It's often part of the mentality that I call the "fixit" mentality. Dieting should be about learning, not about patching something up and then moving on in ignorance. I think too many people, thanks to media and diet gurus have the idea that dieting is something you can do and then be done with. That's why people regain weight.
Deprivation is part of "fixit"-ism. I'm not talking about people who avoid something because they can't control themselves around it, that's just being smart (I'm thinking of you, Trader Joe's pumpkin spice caramel corn which for me is the whole bag or bust). Like others in this thread, I'm talking about the huge deficit and only salads types. That's not learning anything about how to live a life where you're having a healthy relationship with food and learning to make smart choices and balancing nutrition and enjoyment while balancing energy needs. And all of that is vital to long term success.
TL:DR - Too many people aren't focused on the big picture.
Well said!
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I generally agree that you should do things to lose weight that you aren't willing to do forever in order to maintain. So, I can skip treats Monday thru Friday but I know I'm having something on the weekend.
However, you have to realize that your tastes and comforts change over time. And, you should challenge yourself from time to time to see how things feel and work for you. Otherwise, you'll be in a rut. What doesn't work at one point in your life, might work better latter on.1 -
You make small changes that eventually become habits. You become willing to do whatever it takes to make those changes and make it stick. It can feel disruptive at first, but once you get used to it, it becomes normal.depresseddancer wrote: »I've just posted this as my woe and asked for help! How do you embed healthy as a lifestyle choice? The second I take my eye off the ball I pile back on my problem half a stone.
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This. So much this. I am almost 20 lbs lighter than I was in mid July and have eaten hamburgers, French fries, chocolate chip cookies, pizza and beer. Not exclusively, of course, but I wasn't eating those things exclusively before then either. If you take your time losing the weight, you don't have to deprive yourself.4
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I love this post. I'm 5'1 and am sedentary at an office job, so I don't feel deprived by eating 1200 calories a day. Some days I feel like it's too much, and some days I'll eat more if I've worked out or feel like I need it. So it IS possible to make that small amount of calories a lifestyle IF it feels best for you.
However, I love ALL the comments about doing what works for you personally. I went through so many different quick fix it methods of losing weight, and I failed with them all because after a few days I would binge, then hate on myself for it, then deprive myself again, ongoing cycle. I laughed at the "kale and matcha" comment because ooohhh I went through a week or two of that trying to convince myself I liked it...That's not the way to lose weight long-term lol.
Thanks you guys for being so awesome and sharing. Reading comments like these always gets me motivated and excited about how FUN the weight loss journey can be rather than just some punishment phase til a "finish line" goal weight.9 -
nosebag1212 wrote: »Yep, too many people set up MFP, put their activity as sedentary and choose to lose 2 lbs per week, MFP gives them 1200 calories, they manage to stick to it for a few weeks and eventually break and end up binging, then they feel guilty and that they need to "fix" the binge so they go right back to restricting which causes them to binge again and the cycle continues, I bet this is the cause of so many eating disorders, it's sad. Imo you shouldn't lose more than 1% of bodyweight per week, e.g. if you're 150 lbs your deficit should be 750 cals at the very maximum.
I've been doing this for years. It's taken me a good 10 years to realise that this isn't the way1 -
I am happy that I finally realized that this weight is going to come of slow. I realized that this is a lifetime of eating change. I also realized that I can still eat foods I like and crave within moderation and I make room for those foods in my eating plan.5
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