For those losing...how to fall/stay asleep? Pee every few hours during night, also wired feeling.
Replies
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charlenekapf wrote: »thank you. I really appreciate the advice. I may end up doing a sleep study as it has been so long. Also, on the hormonal note, my estrogen was very low until the past month..I literally had not menstruated in 5 years and then randomly got a period last month so I think part of this is hormonal imbalance and i was in almost a menopause from having such low estrogen/progesterone...dealt with hot flashes, dry skin/hair. Not sure now that I just had that period if things are regulating on their own for some reason. I've gotten lots of advice from everyone and appreciate the referrals to sleep specialists, melatonin, etc. Roxiedawn, what was the prescription from the doctor you got? I may mention it at my next visit to see if doc recommends it?OP have you been referred to a sleep specialist yet or is this something you can discuss with your doctor?
The sleep study is where you participate in your own supervised sleep study where they monitor you while you sleep over night . First they first diagnose you and then the next visit to help regulate sleep for you..
Might you talk to your pharmacist in the mean time and tell them what you are having, they can also help point you to OTC or perhaps something they might can provide that is given from behind the counter. Just a thought..
I have taken Alteril OTC. it is melatonin/l-tryptophan/glycine. You mentioned hyperthyroidism, but this has worked for me taking only 1 of the 2 recommended doses. Just know that there is a point when this sleep issue shows its ugly face in the middle of the night... that if you are still remotely sleepy or drowsy and can stay that way for a short period of time to work with your mind and body to not allow yourself to completely wake up, you might can find another hour or two in your sleep. Like my husband says, stop fighting it and try to go back to sleep.. I usually will officially get out of bed after 25-30 minutes where I cannot completely go back to sleep.
If I eat in the middle of the night, I usually can go back to sleep after an hour. Not every time, sometimes I am too mad about being woken up to eat. if that makes any sense.
I have this issue, but I am older and I do contribute mine to hormonal issues with my age.. I am used to it now and I get sleep when I can, even a nap in the day time is helpful. Sometimes I am fully asleep in my chair watching TV at 7:30 or 8:00 and I just sleep.. my husband is used to me like this by now. Get the sleep when you can.
I do a have an amazing prescription medication I can take, I just like to get as much of my own natural sleep as possible.. but this stuff my doc works and works well.. Hopefully you can get this worked out. I know its miserable not sleeping.. It affects everything.. I completely get this.
The medication that I take is a very low dose of trazodone when needed 25-50 mgs. It was prescribed by sleep doctor as my primary physician referred me there. Now that you mention premature menopause symptoms in your post this makes some sense to me.
eta medications like Ambien, Lunesta (which I have done both) are scheduled drugs. This trazodone is not an FDA scheduled drug and it is prescribed off label for insomnia. When I was first given this drug I was not convinced it would work.. So after flip flopping around for several days and walking like a zombie I did try it out.. Look it up for use with insomnia.
I do hope you find some relief soon. Like I said until then, sleep when you can. Even power naps can give you a good boost in energy to get to to the next time you can sleep. I know that sounds counter productive to sleeping through the night, but when you can't you need to take all you can get.
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As a chronic insomnia I feel your pain. A lot of people don't realize how debilitating insomnia can be when you've been awake for 36 hours or can't get more than 2 hours of uninterrupted sleep. Dieting definitely exacerbates my insomnia, but the root cause for me is anxiety. I know a lot of people are suggesting it's due to hunger, but I find that it isn't necessarily hunger that wakes me up, but rather I wake up and am hungry. I would recommend going to a sleep doctor, but you should know that medicine isn't always a perfect fix. Personally I've been on 3 different types of sleep medication, and my doctor will often have me cycle them when my body adjusts to my current medication.3
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charlenekapf wrote: »thank you. I really appreciate the advice. I may end up doing a sleep study as it has been so long. Also, on the hormonal note, my estrogen was very low until the past month..I literally had not menstruated in 5 years and then randomly got a period last month so I think part of this is hormonal imbalance and i was in almost a menopause from having such low estrogen/progesterone...dealt with hot flashes, dry skin/hair. Not sure now that I just had that period if things are regulating on their own for some reason. I've gotten lots of advice from everyone and appreciate the referrals to sleep specialists, melatonin, etc. Roxiedawn, what was the prescription from the doctor you got? I may mention it at my next visit to see if doc recommends it?OP have you been referred to a sleep specialist yet or is this something you can discuss with your doctor?
The sleep study is where you participate in your own supervised sleep study where they monitor you while you sleep over night . First they first diagnose you and then the next visit to help regulate sleep for you..
Might you talk to your pharmacist in the mean time and tell them what you are having, they can also help point you to OTC or perhaps something they might can provide that is given from behind the counter. Just a thought..
I have taken Alteril OTC. it is melatonin/l-tryptophan/glycine. You mentioned hyperthyroidism, but this has worked for me taking only 1 of the 2 recommended doses. Just know that there is a point when this sleep issue shows its ugly face in the middle of the night... that if you are still remotely sleepy or drowsy and can stay that way for a short period of time to work with your mind and body to not allow yourself to completely wake up, you might can find another hour or two in your sleep. Like my husband says, stop fighting it and try to go back to sleep.. I usually will officially get out of bed after 25-30 minutes where I cannot completely go back to sleep.
If I eat in the middle of the night, I usually can go back to sleep after an hour. Not every time, sometimes I am too mad about being woken up to eat. if that makes any sense.
I have this issue, but I am older and I do contribute mine to hormonal issues with my age.. I am used to it now and I get sleep when I can, even a nap in the day time is helpful. Sometimes I am fully asleep in my chair watching TV at 7:30 or 8:00 and I just sleep.. my husband is used to me like this by now. Get the sleep when you can.
I do a have an amazing prescription medication I can take, I just like to get as much of my own natural sleep as possible.. but this stuff my doc works and works well.. Hopefully you can get this worked out. I know its miserable not sleeping.. It affects everything.. I completely get this.
The medication that I take is a very low dose of trazodone when needed 25-50 mgs. It was prescribed by sleep doctor as my primary physician referred me there. Now that you mention premature menopause symptoms in your post this makes some sense to me.
eta medications like Ambien, Lunesta (which I have done both) are scheduled drugs. This trazodone is not an FDA scheduled drug and it is prescribed off label for insomnia. When I was first given this drug I was not convinced it would work.. So after flip flopping around for several days and walking like a zombie I did try it out.. Look it up for use with insomnia.
I do hope you find some relief soon. Like I said until then, sleep when you can. Even power naps can give you a good boost in energy to get to to the next time you can sleep. I know that sounds counter productive to sleeping through the night, but when you can't you need to take all you can get.
Roxie, does the trazodone affect your ability to lose weight?
ETA I'm asking because I tried a prescribed sleep aid before and gained weight rather quickly on it. (I don't normally gain weight quickly so this was unusual for me.)0 -
charlenekapf wrote: »thank you. I really appreciate the advice. I may end up doing a sleep study as it has been so long. Also, on the hormonal note, my estrogen was very low until the past month..I literally had not menstruated in 5 years and then randomly got a period last month so I think part of this is hormonal imbalance and i was in almost a menopause from having such low estrogen/progesterone...dealt with hot flashes, dry skin/hair. Not sure now that I just had that period if things are regulating on their own for some reason. I've gotten lots of advice from everyone and appreciate the referrals to sleep specialists, melatonin, etc. Roxiedawn, what was the prescription from the doctor you got? I may mention it at my next visit to see if doc recommends it?OP have you been referred to a sleep specialist yet or is this something you can discuss with your doctor?
The sleep study is where you participate in your own supervised sleep study where they monitor you while you sleep over night . First they first diagnose you and then the next visit to help regulate sleep for you..
Might you talk to your pharmacist in the mean time and tell them what you are having, they can also help point you to OTC or perhaps something they might can provide that is given from behind the counter. Just a thought..
I have taken Alteril OTC. it is melatonin/l-tryptophan/glycine. You mentioned hyperthyroidism, but this has worked for me taking only 1 of the 2 recommended doses. Just know that there is a point when this sleep issue shows its ugly face in the middle of the night... that if you are still remotely sleepy or drowsy and can stay that way for a short period of time to work with your mind and body to not allow yourself to completely wake up, you might can find another hour or two in your sleep. Like my husband says, stop fighting it and try to go back to sleep.. I usually will officially get out of bed after 25-30 minutes where I cannot completely go back to sleep.
If I eat in the middle of the night, I usually can go back to sleep after an hour. Not every time, sometimes I am too mad about being woken up to eat. if that makes any sense.
I have this issue, but I am older and I do contribute mine to hormonal issues with my age.. I am used to it now and I get sleep when I can, even a nap in the day time is helpful. Sometimes I am fully asleep in my chair watching TV at 7:30 or 8:00 and I just sleep.. my husband is used to me like this by now. Get the sleep when you can.
I do a have an amazing prescription medication I can take, I just like to get as much of my own natural sleep as possible.. but this stuff my doc works and works well.. Hopefully you can get this worked out. I know its miserable not sleeping.. It affects everything.. I completely get this.
The medication that I take is a very low dose of trazodone when needed 25-50 mgs. It was prescribed by sleep doctor as my primary physician referred me there. Now that you mention premature menopause symptoms in your post this makes some sense to me.
eta medications like Ambien, Lunesta (which I have done both) are scheduled drugs. This trazodone is not an FDA scheduled drug and it is prescribed off label for insomnia. When I was first given this drug I was not convinced it would work.. So after flip flopping around for several days and walking like a zombie I did try it out.. Look it up for use with insomnia.
I do hope you find some relief soon. Like I said until then, sleep when you can. Even power naps can give you a good boost in energy to get to to the next time you can sleep. I know that sounds counter productive to sleeping through the night, but when you can't you need to take all you can get.
Roxie, does the trazodone affect your ability to lose weight?
ETA I'm asking because I tried a prescribed sleep aid before and gained weight rather quickly on it. (I don't normally gain weight quickly so this was unusual for me.)
Not at all. And I do not use this everyday. This is an emergency for me.
eta I only provided this cause OP asked what it was that was prescribed to me by my doctor. Let me add this, this medication works to help me stabilize my normal natural sleep.
I encourage anyone that reads this, I am not recommending this, everyone should seek the guidance and assistance from their doctor.
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During diet season I supplement with MET-Rx ZMA and Bioganix Natural Sleep Support, I still only sleep 4-5hrs with supplementation but it's a good solid sleep. I'll typically also nap for an hour late afternoon/early evening. I'll also have the majority of my water intake early in the day and taper it off by the evening to just sips here and there.2
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Personally, with the number and variety of issues you've been having, I wouldn't restrict my diet quite as much as you are. Satiety can be a tricky thing, and by limiting the number of tools you have at your disposal, you never know, you may have eliminated some simple food substance that would allow your body to function normally and potentially be hormonally balanced. I would play with the food a little bit and increase the variety of the diet, if I were you.1
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Can you tell us more about your thyroid issues? That can cause so many problems you are describing. I know you said you were on meds but it gave you side effects. Did you stop the meds? I have hashimotos and am having to work very closely with my endo to get it regulated.
I have had lots of the same issues that you have especially with the inability to sleep on a small deficit. Also the issue you mentioned with lifting weights and not being able to recover. For me, I think this is all related to my hashimotos acting up for the first time in 13 years. My dr adjusted my meds and I'm slowly feeling better. Taking a diet break until my blood work come back stable and meds are the correct dosage.0 -
When I was working out I could not do it at night it would keep me up .. maybe time of day your working out0
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Have to agree with the people saying that it's the diet causing your sleep problems. Couldn't sleep enough and went to the loo at least two times at night for weeks before my competition. Why? Because I was incredibly hungry all the time. Even after I ate, I was thinking about the next meal and so on and so on.
Only after I was done with my competition and started eating normally again - enough for my body - I felt better, slept better and don't feel hungry anymore.
My main point is - take a break from your diet (be reasonable). It's possible your body can't function properly due to being food deprived for long time. Small deficit or not.
P.S. Do you have cold feet most of time? Might consider wearing light socks when going to bed.
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charlenekapf wrote: »thank you. I really appreciate the advice. I may end up doing a sleep study as it has been so long. Also, on the hormonal note, my estrogen was very low until the past month..I literally had not menstruated in 5 years and then randomly got a period last month so I think part of this is hormonal imbalance and i was in almost a menopause from having such low estrogen/progesterone...dealt with hot flashes, dry skin/hair. Not sure now that I just had that period if things are regulating on their own for some reason. I've gotten lots of advice from everyone and appreciate the referrals to sleep specialists, melatonin, etc. Roxiedawn, what was the prescription from the doctor you got? I may mention it at my next visit to see if doc recommends it?OP have you been referred to a sleep specialist yet or is this something you can discuss with your doctor?
The sleep study is where you participate in your own supervised sleep study where they monitor you while you sleep over night . First they first diagnose you and then the next visit to help regulate sleep for you..
Might you talk to your pharmacist in the mean time and tell them what you are having, they can also help point you to OTC or perhaps something they might can provide that is given from behind the counter. Just a thought..
I have taken Alteril OTC. it is melatonin/l-tryptophan/glycine. You mentioned hyperthyroidism, but this has worked for me taking only 1 of the 2 recommended doses. Just know that there is a point when this sleep issue shows its ugly face in the middle of the night... that if you are still remotely sleepy or drowsy and can stay that way for a short period of time to work with your mind and body to not allow yourself to completely wake up, you might can find another hour or two in your sleep. Like my husband says, stop fighting it and try to go back to sleep.. I usually will officially get out of bed after 25-30 minutes where I cannot completely go back to sleep.
If I eat in the middle of the night, I usually can go back to sleep after an hour. Not every time, sometimes I am too mad about being woken up to eat. if that makes any sense.
I have this issue, but I am older and I do contribute mine to hormonal issues with my age.. I am used to it now and I get sleep when I can, even a nap in the day time is helpful. Sometimes I am fully asleep in my chair watching TV at 7:30 or 8:00 and I just sleep.. my husband is used to me like this by now. Get the sleep when you can.
I do a have an amazing prescription medication I can take, I just like to get as much of my own natural sleep as possible.. but this stuff my doc works and works well.. Hopefully you can get this worked out. I know its miserable not sleeping.. It affects everything.. I completely get this.
The medication that I take is a very low dose of trazodone when needed 25-50 mgs. It was prescribed by sleep doctor as my primary physician referred me there. Now that you mention premature menopause symptoms in your post this makes some sense to me.
eta medications like Ambien, Lunesta (which I have done both) are scheduled drugs. This trazodone is not an FDA scheduled drug and it is prescribed off label for insomnia. When I was first given this drug I was not convinced it would work.. So after flip flopping around for several days and walking like a zombie I did try it out.. Look it up for use with insomnia.
I do hope you find some relief soon. Like I said until then, sleep when you can. Even power naps can give you a good boost in energy to get to to the next time you can sleep. I know that sounds counter productive to sleeping through the night, but when you can't you need to take all you can get.
Trazodone made me feel like a zombie the next day, as do most prescription sleep meds.
Sublingual melatonin makes me fall asleep in about 15 minutes. http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Melatonin-Orange-Flavored-Sublingual-1-mg-100-Tablets/24650
Staying asleep is a little tricker. This helps:- To not wake up hungry, I save about 300 calories for a snack before bed.
- To not wake up to pee, I don't drink fluids after dinner, and don't have a lot them.
- I wear ear plugs - Mac's ear seals, which I buy on Amazon as they are no longer sold locally.
I also need regular exercise to sleep well. Wore myself out gardening yest, did all of the above, and slept great.
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Your estimated calorie burn looks extremely high unless you have a job where you are walking around for 12 hours per day.
You said you practice intermittent fasting, well maybe that pattern doesn't work for you. You might want to try spacing your calories different. I'm more likely to experience extreme hunger after breaking a fast while doing IF rather than eating a protein rich breakfast even if it's just a protein shake.
I assumed 2852 was her TDEE.
@charlenekapf what's your weekly weight loss goal set to? To me a small deficit is 250 calories per day; want to make sure we're on the same page.0 -
charlenekapf wrote: »I know this has been discussed before but curious if anyone has found a true remedy. i've tried wine in the past which obviously exacerbates the problem, low carb, high carb, etc. It always happens if I run the smallest deficit. I lost a lot of weight years ago and as a results just accepted the fact I would always sleep like s***. It all started when I began dieting and sometimes can turn into night eating syndrome, especially days i am able to go to bed in a deficit, so I don't keep anything in the house I would try to eat. However, after a few days now of bad sleep when I'm in a small deficit, I end up eating more before bed (I'm talking brussels sprouts, chicken and salsa but healthy food is STILL food). I ruin the deficit. I did this last night and after sleeping 5-6 hours most of this week, I slept for almost 9! I would just like to sleep through the night and no herbs like passionflower have worked. Sometimes I take unisom but am still so devastated. I don't want to not sleep but i'm so tired of gaining/maintaining. Anyone who has experience with this and has found a remedy or just sucks up chronically functioning on 5 hours please post.
Honestly I've never experienced this. You talk about it like its what anyone in calorie deficit experiences but its not. If anything when I'm in calorie deficit I am more tired and require more sleep and as a result find myself falling asleep sooner and staying asleep longer.2 -
Chronic insomniac here. I find I have to eat dinner an hour before bed, high protein, and not go to bed before midnight, up by 7-8. I watch mind numbing tv at midnight, do hygeine n get in bed, read or talk for 20 mins then sleep. Yes during the afternoon im horribly hungry because i move all foods until later but it's worth it for me and have sleep issues regardless of diet.
I take 5-10 mills of melotonin depending on desperation and nap once a day (as i rarely leave light sleep phases, so even sleep isn't sleep lol). I also find i sleep deeper and better during the day hence naps keeping me going. I work out at least an hr a day. My last resort is hypnotherapy tapes.
I did meds but they made me too tired. And i tried cutting naps but would end up having more trouble sleeping. So night routine, avoid heavy foods until after 6, exhaust myself, melotonin, and hypnotherapy have meant i stay asleep 5-8 hours.0 -
Thank you for this post...I try to get my mind off the thyroid issue but I do have diagnosed hypothyroidism. My TSH falls within the clinical normal/high range but my T3 runs low unless i'm on something with t3. I was on armour 120mg after working my way up and began having some slight heart pains that were like quick twinges of pain.
I stopped meds completely and weight gain happened rapidly, I struggle to maintain and can feel the lethargy compared to when I first felt better on armour about a year ago.
I am seeing a highly regarded endo at the end of december but it's a long wait to see him....my old endo was not really proactive so hoping this one is better as he we really respected by many PCPs.
Good to know the run down feeling may be thyroid related.Can you tell us more about your thyroid issues? That can cause so many problems you are describing. I know you said you were on meds but it gave you side effects. Did you stop the meds? I have hashimotos and am having to work very closely with my endo to get it regulated.
I have had lots of the same issues that you have especially with the inability to sleep on a small deficit. Also the issue you mentioned with lifting weights and not being able to recover. For me, I think this is all related to my hashimotos acting up for the first time in 13 years. My dr adjusted my meds and I'm slowly feeling better. Taking a diet break until my blood work come back stable and meds are the correct dosage.0 -
red99ryder wrote: »When I was working out I could not do it at night it would keep me up .. maybe time of day your working out
I wish...I workout at 6:30 AM-8am most days.0 -
applesandtapeline wrote: »Have to agree with the people saying that it's the diet causing your sleep problems. Couldn't sleep enough and went to the loo at least two times at night for weeks before my competition. Why? Because I was incredibly hungry all the time. Even after I ate, I was thinking about the next meal and so on and so on.
Only after I was done with my competition and started eating normally again - enough for my body - I felt better, slept better and don't feel hungry anymore.
My main point is - take a break from your diet (be reasonable). It's possible your body can't function properly due to being food deprived for long time. Small deficit or not.
P.S. Do you have cold feet most of time? Might consider wearing light socks when going to bed.
It's hard to take a break as I have gained so much weight rapidly since the beginning of the year after losing it from an earlier gain when my thyroid started getting out of whack. I run warm at night a lot of the time and use the fan which helps. during the day though I run cold most of the time esp. if it's not summer. My extremities stay pretty cold...definitely remember having low body fat and having the coldest winter ever when I was really adhering to low calories, running high mileage and not sleeping much. it just wasn't sustainable. trying to find some kind of middle path where I can sleep somewhat, have some energy, and feel satiated after meals. So many on here have their routine figured out...I can barely go more than a day before the sleep deprivation makes me overeat even if its "clean" food.0 -
alyangel123 wrote: »Chronic insomniac here. I find I have to eat dinner an hour before bed, high protein, and not go to bed before midnight, up by 7-8. I watch mind numbing tv at midnight, do hygeine n get in bed, read or talk for 20 mins then sleep. Yes during the afternoon im horribly hungry because i move all foods until later but it's worth it for me and have sleep issues regardless of diet.
I take 5-10 mills of melotonin depending on desperation and nap once a day (as i rarely leave light sleep phases, so even sleep isn't sleep lol). I also find i sleep deeper and better during the day hence naps keeping me going. I work out at least an hr a day. My last resort is hypnotherapy tapes.
I did meds but they made me too tired. And i tried cutting naps but would end up having more trouble sleeping. So night routine, avoid heavy foods until after 6, exhaust myself, melotonin, and hypnotherapy have meant i stay asleep 5-8 hours.
I agree...I prefer to stay hungry during the morning and afternoon and move my meals later so I at least feel better before bed. I tried doing the breakfast things or eating at noon but it did not help my appetite later in the day. frustrating.
Appreciate the tips.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »charlenekapf wrote: »I know this has been discussed before but curious if anyone has found a true remedy. i've tried wine in the past which obviously exacerbates the problem, low carb, high carb, etc. It always happens if I run the smallest deficit. I lost a lot of weight years ago and as a results just accepted the fact I would always sleep like s***. It all started when I began dieting and sometimes can turn into night eating syndrome, especially days i am able to go to bed in a deficit, so I don't keep anything in the house I would try to eat. However, after a few days now of bad sleep when I'm in a small deficit, I end up eating more before bed (I'm talking brussels sprouts, chicken and salsa but healthy food is STILL food). I ruin the deficit. I did this last night and after sleeping 5-6 hours most of this week, I slept for almost 9! I would just like to sleep through the night and no herbs like passionflower have worked. Sometimes I take unisom but am still so devastated. I don't want to not sleep but i'm so tired of gaining/maintaining. Anyone who has experience with this and has found a remedy or just sucks up chronically functioning on 5 hours please post.
Honestly I've never experienced this. You talk about it like its what anyone in calorie deficit experiences but its not. If anything when I'm in calorie deficit I am more tired and require more sleep and as a result find myself falling asleep sooner and staying asleep longer.
I do know some people have sleep issues with dieting...apparently its common but more so in leaner individuals on lower calories. My body definitely prefers to be awake and alert if i'm hungry. I wish I would sleep in.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Your estimated calorie burn looks extremely high unless you have a job where you are walking around for 12 hours per day.
You said you practice intermittent fasting, well maybe that pattern doesn't work for you. You might want to try spacing your calories different. I'm more likely to experience extreme hunger after breaking a fast while doing IF rather than eating a protein rich breakfast even if it's just a protein shake.
I assumed 2852 was her TDEE.
@charlenekapf what's your weekly weight loss goal set to? To me a small deficit is 250 calories per day; want to make sure we're on the same page.
I am trying to lose 1 lb/week. My TDEE can vary greatly as my work is sometimes administrative most of the day and sometimes in the field on my feet, for hours at a time. I always go to the gym, keep my heart rate up (145-179) for 60-80 minutes depending on time and if I can power through that long. So I do believe my TDEE is accurate according to the fitbit, as it has me eating anywhere between 1700-2250 on active days. I try to eat on the lower end....happens if I am diligent but the sleep deprivation after a few days of lower calories is what screws me up. It makes me ravenous and barely functional.0 -
charlenekapf wrote: »
That's still 3-4 hours before bed...which is longer than I can go... so move dinner to 8pm? Or plan a late night snack? I'm thinking something like a half peanut butter sandwich and milk? Something comforting and filling. It truly doesn't matter when you get your calories as long as you're in your desired deficit. If the deficit is too difficult, try eating at maintenance for a while and get your deficit with exercise... and the exercise could help with sleep as well. (Your "calorie burn" seems extremely high unless you're running miles and miles every day. Make sure you're only subtracting ACTUAL exercise calories, not the BMR/TDEE that some fitness trackers will give you...because MFP has already factored that into what you should eat based on your goals).0 -
Charlene, do you get a gnawing sensation in the pit of your stomach at night that keeps you awake, or muscle or joint aches and pains more so keeping you awake? If you take Motrin PM does that help at all? Sorry if you answered this upthread already.0
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Yes, the gnawing sensation is what keeps me awake or wakes me up.
The muscle and joint pain isn't what keeps me up but I do have a lot of that...lifting exacerbates it. Stretching, more cardio than lifting and moving around in general helps with the muscle tightness/aching.Charlene, do you get a gnawing sensation in the pit of your stomach at night that keeps you awake, or muscle or joint aches and pains more so keeping you awake? If you take Motrin PM does that help at all? Sorry if you answered this upthread already.0 -
MsRuffBuffNStuff wrote: »charlenekapf wrote: »
That's still 3-4 hours before bed...which is longer than I can go... so move dinner to 8pm? Or plan a late night snack? I'm thinking something like a half peanut butter sandwich and milk? Something comforting and filling. It truly doesn't matter when you get your calories as long as you're in your desired deficit. If the deficit is too difficult, try eating at maintenance for a while and get your deficit with exercise... and the exercise could help with sleep as well. (Your "calorie burn" seems extremely high unless you're running miles and miles every day. Make sure you're only subtracting ACTUAL exercise calories, not the BMR/TDEE that some fitness trackers will give you...because MFP has already factored that into what you should eat based on your goals).
I usually can't eat that late as far as being able to wait that long. Maybe starting to eat at 7 if I can just try pushing it out that long with a smaller breaking the fast meal before that. It's so hard to eat a small meal after breaking the fast.
My calorie burn that I am stating is my TDEE...I do believe it's accurate as I total around 15000 steps a day, with usually 10,000 of that being steep incline power walking and the stair master. I sweat very hard for an hour. On days I don't workout or just walk around casually, or even hit 10,000 steps walking, hiking, but not strenuous, my tdee is closer to 1700-1800 so it seems pretty accurate. As far as intake, I think it should be reasonable at my weight/activity level to eat 1700-1800 calories a day and lose. it may be slow but if i can keep the calories at that level consistently....I believe i'd lose, assuming my activity was the same. It is very hard for me to eat 1400-1500 for more than a day or two. if i'd sleep better, possibly but at that low level, I just get so wired. it's weird.0 -
charlenekapf wrote: »Yes, the gnawing sensation is what keeps me awake or wakes me up.
The muscle and joint pain isn't what keeps me up but I do have a lot of that...lifting exacerbates it. Stretching, more cardio than lifting and moving around in general helps with the muscle tightness/aching.Charlene, do you get a gnawing sensation in the pit of your stomach at night that keeps you awake, or muscle or joint aches and pains more so keeping you awake? If you take Motrin PM does that help at all? Sorry if you answered this upthread already.
I know that this doesn't sound appetizing, but I've found that eating a small pat of butter (50 cals for 1/2 tbsp) helps my stomach at night if I'm getting the gnawing sensation in the pit of the stomach. Also sometimes I'll take a tablespoon of full fat sour cream, and it stops it and cuts cravings too for me. You could try a spoon of plain Greek yogurt or something more palatable to you. Just be sure to weigh any bites so you don't go over your calorie goal.
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charlenekapf wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »charlenekapf wrote: »I know this has been discussed before but curious if anyone has found a true remedy. i've tried wine in the past which obviously exacerbates the problem, low carb, high carb, etc. It always happens if I run the smallest deficit. I lost a lot of weight years ago and as a results just accepted the fact I would always sleep like s***. It all started when I began dieting and sometimes can turn into night eating syndrome, especially days i am able to go to bed in a deficit, so I don't keep anything in the house I would try to eat. However, after a few days now of bad sleep when I'm in a small deficit, I end up eating more before bed (I'm talking brussels sprouts, chicken and salsa but healthy food is STILL food). I ruin the deficit. I did this last night and after sleeping 5-6 hours most of this week, I slept for almost 9! I would just like to sleep through the night and no herbs like passionflower have worked. Sometimes I take unisom but am still so devastated. I don't want to not sleep but i'm so tired of gaining/maintaining. Anyone who has experience with this and has found a remedy or just sucks up chronically functioning on 5 hours please post.
Honestly I've never experienced this. You talk about it like its what anyone in calorie deficit experiences but its not. If anything when I'm in calorie deficit I am more tired and require more sleep and as a result find myself falling asleep sooner and staying asleep longer.
I do know some people have sleep issues with dieting...apparently its common but more so in leaner individuals on lower calories. My body definitely prefers to be awake and alert if i'm hungry. I wish I would sleep in.
Maybe you do need to go for a smaller deficit and just lose more slowly over time. Set your goal for a 0.5 pound a week loss and see if the hypervigilence and alertness at night ends. That is easy, and your body might need a bit of a break. I found eating at 1200 calories a day I was miserable, hungry, and angsty, for instance, but at 1500 I was relaxed.0 -
Hey OP,
I'm having the same problem. From your description my problem seems like exactly like yours! I think I'm pushing for the lower weight that my body doesn't agree with. It's only 5 lbs from here, but I'm surprised that there's been more problems than it's worth. Lack of sleep and very light sleep when it happens is a big issue. I'm not hungry and can deal with the deficit well but I just cannot fall asleep easily anymore and occasionally experience light headed.
Anyway, I hope you find your solution soon. I'm cutting out coffee in the morning, beer and sweet treat in dinner. Like what you experience, my mind is just too wired to go to sleep. Maybe, we should try blank mind meditation a couple hours before sleep time. Good luck.
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Ugh if I could just accept this weight I would but I'm much more than 5 lbs away from an acceptable weight. Hope it gets better for you too.endlessfall16 wrote: »Hey OP,
I'm having the same problem. From your description my problem seems like exactly like yours! I think I'm pushing for the lower weight that my body doesn't agree with. It's only 5 lbs from here, but I'm surprised that there's been more problems than it's worth. Lack of sleep and very light sleep when it happens is a big issue. I'm not hungry and can deal with the deficit well but I just cannot fall asleep easily anymore and occasionally experience light headed.
Anyway, I hope you find your solution soon. I'm cutting out coffee in the morning, beer and sweet treat in dinner. Like what you experience, my mind is just too wired to go to sleep. Maybe, we should try blank mind meditation a couple hours before sleep time. Good luck.0 -
charlenekapf wrote: »Well if I'm not dieting I'm overeating and gaining weight very fast. I can overeat easily by 1000 calories. When I'm logging and trying to focus on vegetables and protein, healthy fats I'm trying to keep my calories lower too.charlenekapf wrote: »I am not asking about a particular diet or food. I am asking more about a sleep problem. If you have questions about the foods I eat or calories, you can ask me and I will tell you...this forum seems to be a lot more active. however the database is a lot slower and less put together than live strong, that's all.charlenekapf wrote: »I'm not logging on here as I don't like the database. I use live strong usually. My deficit is not too large I assure you. I use a fitbit and exercise at least 60 minutes a day of cardio, sometimes wight lifting. I've tried protein before bed as well..ugh. Sounds like not many people have this issue when dieting.cmriverside wrote: »Ok...I am still not understanding your issue?
Your food diary is set to private so I can't really look at it and make any suggestions. If you are hungry and that's why you can't sleep, maybe your deficit is too large. Without a lengthy (like a couple months) logging record there is no way for you to know if that is the case. Figure out your daily needs and subtract 250 (or use this site and choose "Lose 1/2 pound per week.") Then log your food for two months. See if you lose or gain or stay the same. Adjust accordingly.
Good bedtime snack is something with protein. Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, glass of milk, egg and toast. Something with protein.
Without seeing your food diary it's significantly harder to help you. Maybe you can ask the people over there instead.
Diet can impact sleep, so it can play a huge part in your sleep issues. Even more so since you are saying you only have this problem while dieting.
Sounds like this is more of a challenge that might benefit from Cognitive Behavioral therapy for sleep disorders. It takes a look at your thoughts and beliefs about sleep, and how they impact your behavior that ultimately disrupts your sleep habits. It also focuses strongly on sleep hygiene.
Regardless, this sounds like something you should talk to your doctor about. There are lots of "herbal remedies" that may or may not help, and potentially could make things worse. Plus, CBT can help with things like overeating. No one should have to diet just to keep weight off, it's about lifestyle change, and that includes how we think and approach food.2 -
charlenekapf wrote: »MsRuffBuffNStuff wrote: »charlenekapf wrote: »
That's still 3-4 hours before bed...which is longer than I can go... so move dinner to 8pm? Or plan a late night snack? I'm thinking something like a half peanut butter sandwich and milk? Something comforting and filling. It truly doesn't matter when you get your calories as long as you're in your desired deficit. If the deficit is too difficult, try eating at maintenance for a while and get your deficit with exercise... and the exercise could help with sleep as well. (Your "calorie burn" seems extremely high unless you're running miles and miles every day. Make sure you're only subtracting ACTUAL exercise calories, not the BMR/TDEE that some fitness trackers will give you...because MFP has already factored that into what you should eat based on your goals).
I usually can't eat that late as far as being able to wait that long. Maybe starting to eat at 7 if I can just try pushing it out that long with a smaller breaking the fast meal before that. It's so hard to eat a small meal after breaking the fast.
My calorie burn that I am stating is my TDEE...I do believe it's accurate as I total around 15000 steps a day, with usually 10,000 of that being steep incline power walking and the stair master. I sweat very hard for an hour. On days I don't workout or just walk around casually, or even hit 10,000 steps walking, hiking, but not strenuous, my tdee is closer to 1700-1800 so it seems pretty accurate. As far as intake, I think it should be reasonable at my weight/activity level to eat 1700-1800 calories a day and lose. it may be slow but if i can keep the calories at that level consistently....I believe i'd lose, assuming my activity was the same. It is very hard for me to eat 1400-1500 for more than a day or two. if i'd sleep better, possibly but at that low level, I just get so wired. it's weird.
Save a few hundred calories for a bedtime snack. Or just create a smaller deficit - you'll be ahead overall if you're able to stop the Night Eating Syndrome you mentioned in your OP.0 -
charlenekapf wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »charlenekapf wrote: »I know this has been discussed before but curious if anyone has found a true remedy. i've tried wine in the past which obviously exacerbates the problem, low carb, high carb, etc. It always happens if I run the smallest deficit. I lost a lot of weight years ago and as a results just accepted the fact I would always sleep like s***. It all started when I began dieting and sometimes can turn into night eating syndrome, especially days i am able to go to bed in a deficit, so I don't keep anything in the house I would try to eat. However, after a few days now of bad sleep when I'm in a small deficit, I end up eating more before bed (I'm talking brussels sprouts, chicken and salsa but healthy food is STILL food). I ruin the deficit. I did this last night and after sleeping 5-6 hours most of this week, I slept for almost 9! I would just like to sleep through the night and no herbs like passionflower have worked. Sometimes I take unisom but am still so devastated. I don't want to not sleep but i'm so tired of gaining/maintaining. Anyone who has experience with this and has found a remedy or just sucks up chronically functioning on 5 hours please post.
Honestly I've never experienced this. You talk about it like its what anyone in calorie deficit experiences but its not. If anything when I'm in calorie deficit I am more tired and require more sleep and as a result find myself falling asleep sooner and staying asleep longer.
I do know some people have sleep issues with dieting...apparently its common but more so in leaner individuals on lower calories. My body definitely prefers to be awake and alert if i'm hungry. I wish I would sleep in.
Perhaps that is the difference, I never diet to the point of hunger....just seems unecessarily uncomfortable.0
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