Pizza or Burger: What's Worse???
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lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
As has been stated many times in this thread, it depends on the pizza and the burger. I'm in St Louis and 1/4 of a traditional meaty pizza is less than 400 cals.Alatariel75 wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, a burger which is deliberately made with lean meat and low calorie bread or topping will be lower calorie than a few slices of regular corner store pizza. BUT, a pizza which is made with lean meat and low calorie crust and toppings will be lower calorie than a regular corner store burger.
You can't hold the two items to two completely separate sets of standards.
Yeah but I'm talking about regular delivery style pizza or frozen. Which is what most people get. Not some evil concoction made up at home with a veggie crust, barely no cheese or meat. I assumed the OP was asking about standard take home or restaurant pizza or burger. Even if the burger is at a take out place I think it's still better than a restaurant pizza. I've looked at a lot of numbers at a lot of places and pizza always seems to be the heavier hitter. It's also harder to control yourself at stopping at only a few slices, unlike with a burger you usually eat one burger cuz that's all you have and your done with it. Obviously there can be some exceptions to this but I tend to think when questions like this are asked on here it's a "generally speaking" sort of question.
It's impossible to compare. (Also, I think a lot of people can eat two pieces of pizza.) I usually have burgers I make at home and they are reasonably low cal, but a pizza I make at home is too. I normally eat pizza from local Italian places (so no calorie count, but thin crust, and it all depends on what I choose to eat). We do have it for work lunch sometimes (from local chains) and I can eat about 500-600 calories of it and be satisfied (two slices of thin crust or one slice of the Chicago style, depending on the specific pizza). Or I can go to a restaurant and order a burger, which won't be lean meat, will have a caloric bun, and will be significantly larger than I'd make at home. And, it might have cheese or bacon on it. Many people who'd eat more pizza might get fries with the burger too.
I know plenty of burgers I've splurged on that have a lot more calories than my typical pizza dinner.
So you've eaten 800+ calorie burgers? Also, just because you can stop and feel full at two slices doesn't mean everyone or even most people can. Or else they wouldn't be on here right now dieting and asking these sorts of questions.
yes, I have eaten a 1000 calorie burger....
so everyone is on MFP because they over ate on pizza? That is a new one, I did not know that pizza was the main culprit in the obesity epidemic...
Did I say that? I don't think so. What I said was that if people on MFP had the self control you apparently did they would not need help deciding between burgers, pizza, or anything else. Most people who are overweight are that because they are not good at eating in moderation or making smart food choices. That's why we are now dieting. I include myself in this.
they are overweight becuase they eat too many calories..
and for reference here is your direct quote:
Also, just because you can stop and feel full at two slices doesn't mean everyone or even most people can. Or else they wouldn't be on here right now dieting and asking these sorts of questions.
the implication of your statement is that people are on MFP because they over eat pizza...0 -
I cannot believe we are this far into the weeds with the whole pizza vs burger discussion.
There are calorie dense burgers. There are also ways to make burgers less calorie dense.
There are calorie dense pizzas. There are also ways to make pizzas less calorie dense.
There are some people that find burgers more satiating than pizza.
There are some people that find pizza more satiating than burgers.
There are people who have difficulty moderating pizza, eating more than 2-3 slices.
There are people who have difficulty moderating burgers, maybe they add fries to the order or maybe they eat an entire case of White Castles, who knows.
There are people who can eat 2 slices of pizza and be satisfied.
There are people who can eat a single burger and be satisfied.
The point is that preferences for foods are completely individualized, as are the foods themselves, so it is impossible to objectively label one as "worse" than the other.
Is this really so difficult to grasp?5 -
If too greasy not eating either
Otherwise i would pick burger one day pizza the next.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I cannot believe we are this far into the weeds with the whole pizza vs burger discussion.
There are calorie dense burgers. There are also ways to make burgers less calorie dense.
There are calorie dense pizzas. There are also ways to make pizzas less calorie dense.
There are some people that find burgers more satiating than pizza.
There are some people that find pizza more satiating than burgers.
There are people who have difficulty moderating pizza, eating more than 2-3 slices.
There are people who have difficulty moderating burgers, maybe they add fries to the order or maybe they eat an entire case of White Castles, who knows.
There are people who can eat 2 slices of pizza and be satisfied.
There are people who can eat a single burger and be satisfied.
The point is that preferences for foods are completely individualized, as are the foods themselves, so it is impossible to objectively label one as "worse" than the other.
Is this really so difficult to grasp?
welcome to MFP where simple concepts are over complicated3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
As has been stated many times in this thread, it depends on the pizza and the burger. I'm in St Louis and 1/4 of a traditional meaty pizza is less than 400 cals.Alatariel75 wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, a burger which is deliberately made with lean meat and low calorie bread or topping will be lower calorie than a few slices of regular corner store pizza. BUT, a pizza which is made with lean meat and low calorie crust and toppings will be lower calorie than a regular corner store burger.
You can't hold the two items to two completely separate sets of standards.
Yeah but I'm talking about regular delivery style pizza or frozen. Which is what most people get. Not some evil concoction made up at home with a veggie crust, barely no cheese or meat. I assumed the OP was asking about standard take home or restaurant pizza or burger. Even if the burger is at a take out place I think it's still better than a restaurant pizza. I've looked at a lot of numbers at a lot of places and pizza always seems to be the heavier hitter. It's also harder to control yourself at stopping at only a few slices, unlike with a burger you usually eat one burger cuz that's all you have and your done with it. Obviously there can be some exceptions to this but I tend to think when questions like this are asked on here it's a "generally speaking" sort of question.
It's impossible to compare. (Also, I think a lot of people can eat two pieces of pizza.) I usually have burgers I make at home and they are reasonably low cal, but a pizza I make at home is too. I normally eat pizza from local Italian places (so no calorie count, but thin crust, and it all depends on what I choose to eat). We do have it for work lunch sometimes (from local chains) and I can eat about 500-600 calories of it and be satisfied (two slices of thin crust or one slice of the Chicago style, depending on the specific pizza). Or I can go to a restaurant and order a burger, which won't be lean meat, will have a caloric bun, and will be significantly larger than I'd make at home. And, it might have cheese or bacon on it. Many people who'd eat more pizza might get fries with the burger too.
I know plenty of burgers I've splurged on that have a lot more calories than my typical pizza dinner.
So you've eaten 800+ calorie burgers?
A restaurant burger? I'm sure I have.Also, just because you can stop and feel full at two slices doesn't mean everyone or even most people can. Or else they wouldn't be on here right now dieting and asking these sorts of questions.
No, it means they didn't choose to stop at 2 slices, or even think about it. (And anyone in that camp probably has eaten 800+ burgers too, if they like burgers. I also find it odd that fast food or at home are your sole references for a burger, and that you are assuming that the average person can't eat 2 slices of pizza but will go get a burger and have nothing else with it.)0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
As has been stated many times in this thread, it depends on the pizza and the burger. I'm in St Louis and 1/4 of a traditional meaty pizza is less than 400 cals.Alatariel75 wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, a burger which is deliberately made with lean meat and low calorie bread or topping will be lower calorie than a few slices of regular corner store pizza. BUT, a pizza which is made with lean meat and low calorie crust and toppings will be lower calorie than a regular corner store burger.
You can't hold the two items to two completely separate sets of standards.
Yeah but I'm talking about regular delivery style pizza or frozen. Which is what most people get. Not some evil concoction made up at home with a veggie crust, barely no cheese or meat. I assumed the OP was asking about standard take home or restaurant pizza or burger. Even if the burger is at a take out place I think it's still better than a restaurant pizza. I've looked at a lot of numbers at a lot of places and pizza always seems to be the heavier hitter. It's also harder to control yourself at stopping at only a few slices, unlike with a burger you usually eat one burger cuz that's all you have and your done with it. Obviously there can be some exceptions to this but I tend to think when questions like this are asked on here it's a "generally speaking" sort of question.
It's impossible to compare. (Also, I think a lot of people can eat two pieces of pizza.) I usually have burgers I make at home and they are reasonably low cal, but a pizza I make at home is too. I normally eat pizza from local Italian places (so no calorie count, but thin crust, and it all depends on what I choose to eat). We do have it for work lunch sometimes (from local chains) and I can eat about 500-600 calories of it and be satisfied (two slices of thin crust or one slice of the Chicago style, depending on the specific pizza). Or I can go to a restaurant and order a burger, which won't be lean meat, will have a caloric bun, and will be significantly larger than I'd make at home. And, it might have cheese or bacon on it. Many people who'd eat more pizza might get fries with the burger too.
I know plenty of burgers I've splurged on that have a lot more calories than my typical pizza dinner.
So you've eaten 800+ calorie burgers? Also, just because you can stop and feel full at two slices doesn't mean everyone or even most people can. Or else they wouldn't be on here right now dieting and asking these sorts of questions.
yes, I have eaten a 1000 calorie burger....
so everyone is on MFP because they over ate on pizza? That is a new one, I did not know that pizza was the main culprit in the obesity epidemic...
Did I say that? I don't think so. What I said was that if people on MFP had the self control you apparently did they would not need help deciding between burgers, pizza, or anything else. Most people who are overweight are that because they are not good at eating in moderation or making smart food choices. That's why we are now dieting. I include myself in this.
they are overweight becuase they eat too many calories..
and for reference here is your direct quote:
Also, just because you can stop and feel full at two slices doesn't mean everyone or even most people can. Or else they wouldn't be on here right now dieting and asking these sorts of questions.
the implication of your statement is that people are on MFP because they over eat pizza...[/quote
No, it was an example. Didn't know people would take it as "everyone is fat in the whole world because of eating pizza" the way you took. The implication was that moderation is not most overweight people's strong point0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
As has been stated many times in this thread, it depends on the pizza and the burger. I'm in St Louis and 1/4 of a traditional meaty pizza is less than 400 cals.Alatariel75 wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, a burger which is deliberately made with lean meat and low calorie bread or topping will be lower calorie than a few slices of regular corner store pizza. BUT, a pizza which is made with lean meat and low calorie crust and toppings will be lower calorie than a regular corner store burger.
You can't hold the two items to two completely separate sets of standards.
Yeah but I'm talking about regular delivery style pizza or frozen. Which is what most people get. Not some evil concoction made up at home with a veggie crust, barely no cheese or meat. I assumed the OP was asking about standard take home or restaurant pizza or burger. Even if the burger is at a take out place I think it's still better than a restaurant pizza. I've looked at a lot of numbers at a lot of places and pizza always seems to be the heavier hitter. It's also harder to control yourself at stopping at only a few slices, unlike with a burger you usually eat one burger cuz that's all you have and your done with it. Obviously there can be some exceptions to this but I tend to think when questions like this are asked on here it's a "generally speaking" sort of question.
I'm just not sure why in your original example that I and @Alaterial75 responded to, you proposed that a hamburger can be customized with different lean meats, lower calorie breads and toppings - making it preferable - yet a pizza has to be the default chain delivery style pizza with meat and cheese. Why do you get to work on making one fit within your goals, but the other has to be some standardized version that doesn't fit?
Also, as has been stated many times in this thread and others, preferences are largely individual when it comes to taste, satiety, etc. Asking general questions like "which is worse" isn't helpful, because for me, I am perfectly capable at stopping at 2 slices of sausage pizza which is less than 600 calories from a chain like Dominos, but you said you are not able to limit yourself to a slice or two. So asking generalized questions when the responses are going to be biased toward individualized preferences just isn't a productive discussion, in my opinion.
Pizza at any place is pretty standard amount of calories. Across the board, You are not going to find a pizza place where slices are less than 200 calories a slice. Burgers are not. A burger at McDonald's may be less calories then a burger at Wendy's and so forth. In either case, most people can stop at one burger and the whole thing might be only 300-400 calories at a minimum. Whereas you just stated two slices of pizza is 600 and, while you can feel full with only two slices, I wager to bet most people can't. The temptation to continue eating more since the remainder of the pizza is still there is very great. Pizza is not a "make you feel full" type of food. If it works for you, good for you. But most people are on here because they don't have that self control with pizza or other certain foods and if given the choice would struggle to only consume them in moderation.
Again, I'm not sure why you can't grasp that just like burgers can range in calories, so can pizza. Here are several different types of pizza that are readily available to me in my town.
Behold the square beyond compare:
[img]Popular Delivery Chain Pizza:[/img]
Lovely Margherita Pizza from a wood fired place about 10 minutes from my house:
Deep Dish Chicago Style from a place called Blackthorn Pub:
And the latest in culinary delights here in St. Louis - behold the toasted ravioli stuffed crust pizza:
So really, you think there's a standard amount of calories in these pizzas?
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WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
As has been stated many times in this thread, it depends on the pizza and the burger. I'm in St Louis and 1/4 of a traditional meaty pizza is less than 400 cals.Alatariel75 wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, a burger which is deliberately made with lean meat and low calorie bread or topping will be lower calorie than a few slices of regular corner store pizza. BUT, a pizza which is made with lean meat and low calorie crust and toppings will be lower calorie than a regular corner store burger.
You can't hold the two items to two completely separate sets of standards.
Yeah but I'm talking about regular delivery style pizza or frozen. Which is what most people get. Not some evil concoction made up at home with a veggie crust, barely no cheese or meat. I assumed the OP was asking about standard take home or restaurant pizza or burger. Even if the burger is at a take out place I think it's still better than a restaurant pizza. I've looked at a lot of numbers at a lot of places and pizza always seems to be the heavier hitter. It's also harder to control yourself at stopping at only a few slices, unlike with a burger you usually eat one burger cuz that's all you have and your done with it. Obviously there can be some exceptions to this but I tend to think when questions like this are asked on here it's a "generally speaking" sort of question.
I'm just not sure why in your original example that I and @Alaterial75 responded to, you proposed that a hamburger can be customized with different lean meats, lower calorie breads and toppings - making it preferable - yet a pizza has to be the default chain delivery style pizza with meat and cheese. Why do you get to work on making one fit within your goals, but the other has to be some standardized version that doesn't fit?
Also, as has been stated many times in this thread and others, preferences are largely individual when it comes to taste, satiety, etc. Asking general questions like "which is worse" isn't helpful, because for me, I am perfectly capable at stopping at 2 slices of sausage pizza which is less than 600 calories from a chain like Dominos, but you said you are not able to limit yourself to a slice or two. So asking generalized questions when the responses are going to be biased toward individualized preferences just isn't a productive discussion, in my opinion.
Pizza at any place is pretty standard amount of calories. Across the board, You are not going to find a pizza place where slices are less than 200 calories a slice. Burgers are not. A burger at McDonald's may be less calories then a burger at Wendy's and so forth. In either case, most people can stop at one burger and the whole thing might be only 300-400 calories at a minimum. Whereas you just stated two slices of pizza is 600 and, while you can feel full with only two slices, I wager to bet most people can't. The temptation to continue eating more since the remainder of the pizza is still there is very great. Pizza is not a "make you feel full" type of food. If it works for you, good for you. But most people are on here because they don't have that self control with pizza or other certain foods and if given the choice would struggle to only consume them in moderation.
Again, I'm not sure why you can't grasp that just like burgers can range in calories, so can pizza. Here are several different types of pizza that are readily available to me in my town.
Behold the square beyond compare:[img]Popular Delivery Chain Pizza:[/img]
Lovely Margherita Pizza from a wood fired place about 10 minutes from my house:
Deep Dish Chicago Style from a place called Blackthorn Pub:
And the latest in culinary delights here in St. Louis - behold the toasted ravioli stuffed crust pizza:
So really, you think there's a standard amount of calories in these pizzas?
Toasted ravioli stuffed crust pizza? Oh, man. That sounds delicious.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
As has been stated many times in this thread, it depends on the pizza and the burger. I'm in St Louis and 1/4 of a traditional meaty pizza is less than 400 cals.Alatariel75 wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, a burger which is deliberately made with lean meat and low calorie bread or topping will be lower calorie than a few slices of regular corner store pizza. BUT, a pizza which is made with lean meat and low calorie crust and toppings will be lower calorie than a regular corner store burger.
You can't hold the two items to two completely separate sets of standards.
Yeah but I'm talking about regular delivery style pizza or frozen. Which is what most people get. Not some evil concoction made up at home with a veggie crust, barely no cheese or meat. I assumed the OP was asking about standard take home or restaurant pizza or burger. Even if the burger is at a take out place I think it's still better than a restaurant pizza. I've looked at a lot of numbers at a lot of places and pizza always seems to be the heavier hitter. It's also harder to control yourself at stopping at only a few slices, unlike with a burger you usually eat one burger cuz that's all you have and your done with it. Obviously there can be some exceptions to this but I tend to think when questions like this are asked on here it's a "generally speaking" sort of question.
I'm just not sure why in your original example that I and @Alaterial75 responded to, you proposed that a hamburger can be customized with different lean meats, lower calorie breads and toppings - making it preferable - yet a pizza has to be the default chain delivery style pizza with meat and cheese. Why do you get to work on making one fit within your goals, but the other has to be some standardized version that doesn't fit?
Also, as has been stated many times in this thread and others, preferences are largely individual when it comes to taste, satiety, etc. Asking general questions like "which is worse" isn't helpful, because for me, I am perfectly capable at stopping at 2 slices of sausage pizza which is less than 600 calories from a chain like Dominos, but you said you are not able to limit yourself to a slice or two. So asking generalized questions when the responses are going to be biased toward individualized preferences just isn't a productive discussion, in my opinion.
Also I look at it this way: if you show me a small square of thin crust pizza and say "you can have this one square for 280 calories or you can put that 280 towards the 400 of a burger and have that instead." I'm going to choose the bigger more fulfilling burger that is a meal in itself, over a square or two of pizza that might not get me very far.
Some people would prefer 280 calories of pizza, some would prefer 280 calories of burger. I'm not sure what this demonstrates other than people have different preferences.
It demonstrates why many people think pizza is bad when on a diet.
Many people also (apparently) think burgers are bad when on a diet. Of course, I think they are wrong, but in that I ate pizza when losing weight I also think anyone claiming pizza is hard to fit in is wrong too.
I had more trouble fitting in Indian food, at least from a restaurant, but I managed that too, and it was because of how I like to eat it and what I like to eat, not because it's inherently "worse" for a diet.But you want to feel full with what you eat so you want to eat something that satisfies you and fulfills you.
Excellent, and since pizza (or pasta, which is basically the same thing) does, it's a good choice for me.
I like to add lean meat and vegetables and eat it with a side salad, but if I have less meat I'll eat more protein at other meals, no biggie, my day is still going to be filling.But a burger is more of a meal and more fulfilling.
According to you. I rarely had burgers when dieting since (unlike a pizza crust or pasta) a bun isn't worth wasting calories on to me, and I like potatoes with my ground beef. So I'd have a patty with vegetables and roasted potatoes on the side, or make a meat sauce and put it on pasta (with lots of vegetables), or -- gasp! -- make a pizza and have some lean ground beef on that. Yum!1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
As has been stated many times in this thread, it depends on the pizza and the burger. I'm in St Louis and 1/4 of a traditional meaty pizza is less than 400 cals.Alatariel75 wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, a burger which is deliberately made with lean meat and low calorie bread or topping will be lower calorie than a few slices of regular corner store pizza. BUT, a pizza which is made with lean meat and low calorie crust and toppings will be lower calorie than a regular corner store burger.
You can't hold the two items to two completely separate sets of standards.
Yeah but I'm talking about regular delivery style pizza or frozen. Which is what most people get. Not some evil concoction made up at home with a veggie crust, barely no cheese or meat. I assumed the OP was asking about standard take home or restaurant pizza or burger. Even if the burger is at a take out place I think it's still better than a restaurant pizza. I've looked at a lot of numbers at a lot of places and pizza always seems to be the heavier hitter. It's also harder to control yourself at stopping at only a few slices, unlike with a burger you usually eat one burger cuz that's all you have and your done with it. Obviously there can be some exceptions to this but I tend to think when questions like this are asked on here it's a "generally speaking" sort of question.
I'm just not sure why in your original example that I and @Alaterial75 responded to, you proposed that a hamburger can be customized with different lean meats, lower calorie breads and toppings - making it preferable - yet a pizza has to be the default chain delivery style pizza with meat and cheese. Why do you get to work on making one fit within your goals, but the other has to be some standardized version that doesn't fit?
Also, as has been stated many times in this thread and others, preferences are largely individual when it comes to taste, satiety, etc. Asking general questions like "which is worse" isn't helpful, because for me, I am perfectly capable at stopping at 2 slices of sausage pizza which is less than 600 calories from a chain like Dominos, but you said you are not able to limit yourself to a slice or two. So asking generalized questions when the responses are going to be biased toward individualized preferences just isn't a productive discussion, in my opinion.
Pizza at any place is pretty standard amount of calories. Across the board, You are not going to find a pizza place where slices are less than 200 calories a slice. Burgers are not. A burger at McDonald's may be less calories then a burger at Wendy's and so forth. In either case, most people can stop at one burger and the whole thing might be only 300-400 calories at a minimum. Whereas you just stated two slices of pizza is 600 and, while you can feel full with only two slices, I wager to bet most people can't. The temptation to continue eating more since the remainder of the pizza is still there is very great. Pizza is not a "make you feel full" type of food. If it works for you, good for you. But most people are on here because they don't have that self control with pizza or other certain foods and if given the choice would struggle to only consume them in moderation.
Again, I'm not sure why you can't grasp that just like burgers can range in calories, so can pizza. Here are several different types of pizza that are readily available to me in my town.
Behold the square beyond compare:[img]Popular Delivery Chain Pizza:[/img]
Lovely Margherita Pizza from a wood fired place about 10 minutes from my house:
Deep Dish Chicago Style from a place called Blackthorn Pub:
And the latest in culinary delights here in St. Louis - behold the toasted ravioli stuffed crust pizza:
So really, you think there's a standard amount of calories in these pizzas?
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I've explained it every way I know how. If you can eat 600 calories of pizza, which to your own admittance is 2 slices and feel full good for you. I would not feel full with two slices of pizza. So 600 calories on 2 slices would not be a smart choice in my opinion. So I would choose the burger if I had that calorie allowance instead of forcing myself to stop at two slices and end up feeling fuller and more satisfied. Also, I said the average slice at a minimum is 200. That does not equate to many different types of pizza are all 200. What didn't you understand about that simple explanation? You might have slices that are 200, 280, 320 etc. and that's for one piece. I'm simply explaining my choice of pizza being worse than burgers (my mindset in regards to it) but as usual no one can have opinions on this board without the know-it-Alls of life like you arguing the other persons point into the ground. This isn't the first time I've seen you do this to someone. You have your opinions and I have mine. can you accept that? I don't claim to know everything about dieting but I can offer my experience and personal preferences to the discussion just like anyone else can.
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If you claim that burgers ARE better for dieting than pizza and back that up with assertions about what most people think and so on and resist when others point out that that may be true for you, but not for others, you don't get to then claim that it was only an opinion and we all have different experiences.
Now, if you acknowledge you are changing your answer to "for me, burgers tend to work better than pizza for the same calories," cool. I like them both, and think some are low cal and some are high cal and some are in the middle. Also, some are worth their cals and some are not.4 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
As has been stated many times in this thread, it depends on the pizza and the burger. I'm in St Louis and 1/4 of a traditional meaty pizza is less than 400 cals.Alatariel75 wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, a burger which is deliberately made with lean meat and low calorie bread or topping will be lower calorie than a few slices of regular corner store pizza. BUT, a pizza which is made with lean meat and low calorie crust and toppings will be lower calorie than a regular corner store burger.
You can't hold the two items to two completely separate sets of standards.
Yeah but I'm talking about regular delivery style pizza or frozen. Which is what most people get. Not some evil concoction made up at home with a veggie crust, barely no cheese or meat. I assumed the OP was asking about standard take home or restaurant pizza or burger. Even if the burger is at a take out place I think it's still better than a restaurant pizza. I've looked at a lot of numbers at a lot of places and pizza always seems to be the heavier hitter. It's also harder to control yourself at stopping at only a few slices, unlike with a burger you usually eat one burger cuz that's all you have and your done with it. Obviously there can be some exceptions to this but I tend to think when questions like this are asked on here it's a "generally speaking" sort of question.
I'm just not sure why in your original example that I and @Alaterial75 responded to, you proposed that a hamburger can be customized with different lean meats, lower calorie breads and toppings - making it preferable - yet a pizza has to be the default chain delivery style pizza with meat and cheese. Why do you get to work on making one fit within your goals, but the other has to be some standardized version that doesn't fit?
Also, as has been stated many times in this thread and others, preferences are largely individual when it comes to taste, satiety, etc. Asking general questions like "which is worse" isn't helpful, because for me, I am perfectly capable at stopping at 2 slices of sausage pizza which is less than 600 calories from a chain like Dominos, but you said you are not able to limit yourself to a slice or two. So asking generalized questions when the responses are going to be biased toward individualized preferences just isn't a productive discussion, in my opinion.
Pizza at any place is pretty standard amount of calories. Across the board, You are not going to find a pizza place where slices are less than 200 calories a slice. Burgers are not. A burger at McDonald's may be less calories then a burger at Wendy's and so forth. In either case, most people can stop at one burger and the whole thing might be only 300-400 calories at a minimum. Whereas you just stated two slices of pizza is 600 and, while you can feel full with only two slices, I wager to bet most people can't. The temptation to continue eating more since the remainder of the pizza is still there is very great. Pizza is not a "make you feel full" type of food. If it works for you, good for you. But most people are on here because they don't have that self control with pizza or other certain foods and if given the choice would struggle to only consume them in moderation.
Again, I'm not sure why you can't grasp that just like burgers can range in calories, so can pizza. Here are several different types of pizza that are readily available to me in my town.
Behold the square beyond compare:[img]Popular Delivery Chain Pizza:[/img]
Lovely Margherita Pizza from a wood fired place about 10 minutes from my house:
Deep Dish Chicago Style from a place called Blackthorn Pub:
And the latest in culinary delights here in St. Louis - behold the toasted ravioli stuffed crust pizza:
So really, you think there's a standard amount of calories in these pizzas?
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I've explained it every way I know how. If you can eat 600 calories of pizza, which to your own admittance is 2 slices and feel full good for you. I would not feel full with two slices of pizza. So 600 calories on 2 slices would not be a smart choice in my opinion. So I would choose the burger if I had that calorie allowance instead of forcing myself to stop at two slices and end up feeling fuller and more satisfied. Also, I said the average slice at a minimum is 200. That does not equate to many different types of pizza are all 200. What didn't you understand about that simple explanation? You might have slices that are 200, 280, 320 etc. and that's for one piece. I'm simply explaining my choice of pizza being worse than burgers (my mindset in regards to it) but as usual no one can have opinions on this board without the know-it-Alls of life like you arguing the other persons point into the ground. This isn't the first time I've seen you do this to someone. You have your opinions and I have mine. can you accept that? I don't claim to know everything about dieting but I can offer my experience and personal preferences to the discussion just like anyone else can.
I would feel a lot better with two pieces of pizza than I would with a piece of a burger. Is that what we're doing, just offering our personal preferences and not determining which is "worse"?0 -
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The crust alone is 200 calories a slice and the picture shows very small slices. I mean, it may be delicious, but if I'm trying to hit a goal, I think I'd rather just have some regular pizza.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »If you claim that burgers ARE better for dieting than pizza and back that up with assertions about what most people think and so on and resist when others point out that that may be true for you, but not for others, you don't get to then claim that it was only an opinion and we all have different experiences.
Now, if you acknowledge you are changing your answer to "for me, burgers tend to work better than pizza for the same calories," cool. I like them both, and think some are low cal and some are high cal and some are in the middle. Also, some are worth their cals and some are not.
Yep, pretty much this. Plus the statements that all of us here struggle with moderation so therefore burger is the better choice seemed like a sweeping generalization.
I'm also not sure how my statements that taste preferences and what foods fill people up are dependent upon the individual, and that foods themselves can vary significantly, so it is not possible to objectively label one food as better than another has turned into me being a know it all.
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janejellyroll wrote: »
The crust alone is 200 calories a slice and the picture shows very small slices. I mean, it may be delicious, but if I'm trying to hit a goal, I think I'd rather just have some regular pizza.
Yes!!1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »If you claim that burgers ARE better for dieting than pizza and back that up with assertions about what most people think and so on and resist when others point out that that may be true for you, but not for others, you don't get to then claim that it was only an opinion and we all have different experiences.
Now, if you acknowledge you are changing your answer to "for me, burgers tend to work better than pizza for the same calories," cool. I like them both, and think some are low cal and some are high cal and some are in the middle. Also, some are worth their cals and some are not.
All of our answers are opinions. And I would think that is what the OP was asking for when posing the question. Most answers of posts on here are just opinions and personal experience.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »If you claim that burgers ARE better for dieting than pizza and back that up with assertions about what most people think and so on and resist when others point out that that may be true for you, but not for others, you don't get to then claim that it was only an opinion and we all have different experiences.
Now, if you acknowledge you are changing your answer to "for me, burgers tend to work better than pizza for the same calories," cool. I like them both, and think some are low cal and some are high cal and some are in the middle. Also, some are worth their cals and some are not.
All of our answers are opinions. And I would think that is what the OP was asking for when posing the question. Most answers of posts on here are just opinions and personal experience.
OP was just trying to get a good fight going in the debate section because things were getting slow. Mission accomplished!0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »If you claim that burgers ARE better for dieting than pizza and back that up with assertions about what most people think and so on and resist when others point out that that may be true for you, but not for others, you don't get to then claim that it was only an opinion and we all have different experiences.
Now, if you acknowledge you are changing your answer to "for me, burgers tend to work better than pizza for the same calories," cool. I like them both, and think some are low cal and some are high cal and some are in the middle. Also, some are worth their cals and some are not.
Yep, pretty much this. Plus the statements that all of us here struggle with moderation so therefore burger is the better choice seemed like a sweeping generalization.
I'm also not sure how my statements that taste preferences and what foods fill people up are dependent upon the individual, and that foods themselves can vary significantly, so it is not possible to objectively label one food as better than another has turned into me being a know it
Again, never said that everybody who is on MFP has problems with moderation. I said many or most. And being a fat person who has been one most of my life and know many others I can speak from experience that it is, for most, a large part of why they are fat. If you could stop, you wouldn't be overweight and dieting would not be such a struggle. You are generalizing my statements and saying they apply to everyone, when I did not say that.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
As has been stated many times in this thread, it depends on the pizza and the burger. I'm in St Louis and 1/4 of a traditional meaty pizza is less than 400 cals.Alatariel75 wrote: »I would say pizza is worst. I think one square slice is like 200+ calories on average. And most people eat several slices, so the calories can add up fast. Not many people can eat only one or two slices and walk away, so it's easier to end up binging on. A hamburger can be made with different types of lean meats and lower calorie bread and toppings and you can probably feel full just eating one.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sure, a burger which is deliberately made with lean meat and low calorie bread or topping will be lower calorie than a few slices of regular corner store pizza. BUT, a pizza which is made with lean meat and low calorie crust and toppings will be lower calorie than a regular corner store burger.
You can't hold the two items to two completely separate sets of standards.
Yeah but I'm talking about regular delivery style pizza or frozen. Which is what most people get. Not some evil concoction made up at home with a veggie crust, barely no cheese or meat. I assumed the OP was asking about standard take home or restaurant pizza or burger. Even if the burger is at a take out place I think it's still better than a restaurant pizza. I've looked at a lot of numbers at a lot of places and pizza always seems to be the heavier hitter. It's also harder to control yourself at stopping at only a few slices, unlike with a burger you usually eat one burger cuz that's all you have and your done with it. Obviously there can be some exceptions to this but I tend to think when questions like this are asked on here it's a "generally speaking" sort of question.
It's impossible to compare. (Also, I think a lot of people can eat two pieces of pizza.) I usually have burgers I make at home and they are reasonably low cal, but a pizza I make at home is too. I normally eat pizza from local Italian places (so no calorie count, but thin crust, and it all depends on what I choose to eat). We do have it for work lunch sometimes (from local chains) and I can eat about 500-600 calories of it and be satisfied (two slices of thin crust or one slice of the Chicago style, depending on the specific pizza). Or I can go to a restaurant and order a burger, which won't be lean meat, will have a caloric bun, and will be significantly larger than I'd make at home. And, it might have cheese or bacon on it. Many people who'd eat more pizza might get fries with the burger too.
I know plenty of burgers I've splurged on that have a lot more calories than my typical pizza dinner.
So you've eaten 800+ calorie burgers? Also, just because you can stop and feel full at two slices doesn't mean everyone or even most people can. Or else they wouldn't be on here right now dieting and asking these sorts of questions.
yes, I have eaten a 1000 calorie burger....
so everyone is on MFP because they over ate on pizza? That is a new one, I did not know that pizza was the main culprit in the obesity epidemic...
Did I say that? I don't think so. What I said was that if people on MFP had the self control you apparently did they would not need help deciding between burgers, pizza, or anything else. Most people who are overweight are that because they are not good at eating in moderation or making smart food choices. That's why we are now dieting. I include myself in this.
they are overweight becuase they eat too many calories..
and for reference here is your direct quote:
Also, just because you can stop and feel full at two slices doesn't mean everyone or even most people can. Or else they wouldn't be on here right now dieting and asking these sorts of questions.
the implication of your statement is that people are on MFP because they over eat pizza...[/quote
No, it was an example. Didn't know people would take it as "everyone is fat in the whole world because of eating pizza" the way you took. The implication was that moderation is not most overweight people's strong point
try being a little more clear next time, and we won't have these hang ups.
The point is that neither a pizza or burger is "better" they are both the same and what one eats is a matter of calorie, micro, and macro goals for the day...0
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