No Veggies/LCHF
Replies
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Sorry but YOU NEED TO EAT VEGGIES. You need them for vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and other micronutrients. You need the fiber too for proper digestion. What are you, a picky 5 year old? You can't survive off meat and eggs alone. Just find ones you actually like and eat them. It's not that hard.3
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WinoGelato wrote: »Join the Low Carber Daily MFP group. There are a few keto'ers in there that found they felt better and better the more they cut their veggies. they are now essentially carnivores and quite happy and healthy.
Seafood is good to include if you can. For plant matter, if you want it, how about olives, nuts, seeds, pickles, avocados, coconut or hemp and chia? Can you eat veggies if they are well fatted up? My husband is not a fan of rabbit food but he'll eat it, and enjoy it if I add lots of cheese, butter or oil. Tonight is a broccoli cream cheese casserole. He will only eat cooked veggies too.
You can have some fruit. Just keep it low GI if you are having more than a couple of bites. Berries are the lowest GI.
If you can't have veggies, I wouldn't worry about it. If you eat good quality eggs, meat, dairy and seafood, you will be fine.
There really is no evidence that an animal based diet is bad for you, as far as I know. If you have some sort of study on it I'd love to see it.
I haven't seen a scientific consensus on animal based diets being bad, either. I just see a difference between an animal-based diet and an animal exclusive diet. With the latter being more akin to what you're advocating.
I don't think I am advocating for an animal exclusive diet. I eat vegetables and plant sourced foods, but I do want to make the point that it is a healthy choice. No mineral or nutrient appears to be lacking in such a diet. KWIM?
I think the OP would be happy to add in other foods but I just stated that she doesn't have to do so. I also suggested nuts, seeds, olive, avocado, and low GI fruits too. People just don't think animal diets are a good idea based on very little (or no) scientific basis. Just bias.
To the bolded, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that it CAN BE a healthy choice, if a person takes care to ensure that they are getting necessary vitamins and minerals but this takes effort? As mentioned above, one would have to be willing to eat organ meat and/or supplement pretty heavily with vitamins in order to achieve the same benefits as eating a varied diet with vegetables, fruits, and grains.
I'll go with "can be" a healthy diet. Like any diet, food can be less nutritious. If one exists on cheez whiz, bacon, and sausages, then their health could suffer. Like if a vegetarian eats mostly grains and sugars, their health may suffer.
I wouldn't say it takes effort though. Meat, eggs, and full fat dairy isn't hard to balance. Eat meat rare if worried about vitamin C. The carnivores I know do not need heavy vitamin supplementation. Some don't supplement at all.
So no on needing supplementation. It isn't required if you eat quality whole foods, as would be true of any well planned diet (excluding veganism which would need B12 supplements).
But no one is suggesting someone engage in a diet of cheez whiz, bacon and sausages - or that such a diet would be healthy. Your statement that a diet of nothing but animal based foods is a healthy choice, is an overstatement, as is the suggestion that one eating this way can be healthy without effort. The average eater isn't going to plan meals around organ meat on a regular basis, may be averse to eating rare meat - so to skip mentioning that these are critical components to making an animal based diet "healthy" seems like an intentional omission to convincing more people to give this diet a try...5 -
Join the Low Carber Daily MFP group. There are a few keto'ers in there that found they felt better and better the more they cut their veggies. they are now essentially carnivores and quite happy and healthy.
Seafood is good to include if you can. For plant matter, if you want it, how about olives, nuts, seeds, pickles, avocados, coconut or hemp and chia? Can you eat veggies if they are well fatted up? My husband is not a fan of rabbit food but he'll eat it, and enjoy it if I add lots of cheese, butter or oil. Tonight is a broccoli cream cheese casserole. He will only eat cooked veggies too.
You can have some fruit. Just keep it low GI if you are having more than a couple of bites. Berries are the lowest GI.
If you can't have veggies, I wouldn't worry about it. If you eat good quality eggs, meat, dairy and seafood, you will be fine.
I just think that if you completely cut out veggies and fruit (since on LCHF you can't really have fruit), you are missing out on a lot of fiber, vitamins and minerals. While the short term effects might not be bad, it's not good for you in the long run. If you are doing LCHF, you really need to eat at least some vegetables.
The vitamins and minerals can be found in animal products. Fiber? Not so much but it appears to be most beneficial when one is eating vegetation.
There really is no evidence that an animal based diet is bad for you, as far as I know. If you have some sort of study on it I'd love to see it.
It would be pretty hard to get vitamins A and C with only meat and dairy. Also, fiber as you noted is almost nonexistent, which has the unfortunate result of constipation in a lot of people. There really aren't too many studies on the all meat diet. Really the only one was done in the 1930s with a population size of 2. They were also explorers and physically fit and it only lasted a year. It's also not a very compelling sample size. It really hasn't been studied so yes, there are no studies that prove it's bad, but there aren't any that say it's good. Also, to be honest, you can make a study say anything. Just google studies on meat consumption and you will get everything from "eating meat is worse that smoking" to "high fat diets are not the nail in the coffin we thought." And you can definitely find tons of studies on vitamin deficent diets with some crazy side effects (blindness, scurvy, etc.) But even most keto/Atkins promote low carb, high fiber veggies. If the poster does not want to eat veggies, she can at least get this stuff in fruit and whole grains, which would be hard to fit into a low carb diet. I'm sure it helps some people and I definitely lean on the side of low carb high fat/protein diet. But I also eat tons of veggies. I feel like most doctors would recommend cutting out all produce.
I don't recommend cutting out all produce either. I like it. But I do know people who feel better, and are healthier, eating that way.
I agree that there are many (any?) studies out here on animal product diets but we know they are safe since a few cultures eat (ate) that way and were quite healthy. It isn't a bad thing. It's just unusual and some people seem to have a hard time with the fact that it is a safe way to eat.
Vitamin A is often best got from animal products, especially organ meat, and vitamin C is in meats, and at fairly good levels if it is not well cooked. Scurvy and such occurred more when people were subsisting mainly on grains and sugars, because of their long shelf life. If unsure, one could always add a multivitamin.
I agree with you. The original poster said she doesn't eat veggies and there may be a small handful of people that can survive on animal products alone. For most people, that is not going to to healthy in the long run. And yes, there were groups of cultures that did subsist on mainly animal products. However, they lived a very different lifestyle than us (lots of manual labor, etc.) and they used the whole animal. Most people don't like organ meat in the US. It is hard to find at a normal super market in a form that is not processed (i.e. pate). Also, I am not sure what meat you are referencing that has vitamin C. I have never seen this. Maybe there is something, but once again, it's not easily sourced. Yes. You could take multi vitamins. There have been lots of studies however, that recommend them to fill small gaps (and some that say that are a complete waste of money and not to bother.) Not to replace the nutrients. The reason why they (along with fortified products) don't have the same effect as getting them naturally from food, is likely because they are made in labs and our bodies are just not designed to take 500% of your daily vitamin C all at once. For me personally, most vitamins make me feel nauseous (yes, I have tried cutting them in half and eating them after meals.)0 -
kschwab0203 wrote: »I want to just start this post by saying I know how terrible of a person I am that I do not eat veggies and how healthy they are for you, but such is life....
I was looking over the guidelines for LCHF and was thinking all I'd be able to eat is eggs, meat and cheese. I mean is there anything else if you don't like veggies?
I feel like LCHF might help with my low blood sugar issues (aka moodiness), but I cant just eat eggs, meat, and cheese.
Any thoughts? (Don't tell me to eat veggies LOL)
You don't look like any veggies but corn & potatoes. Do you eat any kind of lettuce, salads? If not maybe you should try smoothies or juicing. That way you can drink your fruits & veggies.
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Queenmunchy wrote: »I have seen zero carb dieters and I think it would be so difficult (but I'm a veggie lover).
No one is completely "no carb". There are carbs in veggies but because of the fiber it really doesn't spike your blood sugar. I'm a veggie lover too
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I started this post with "I know I'm a terrible person because I don't eat veggies" for a reason.
I'm being veggie shamed, LOL!
For really thought, thanks so much of all the advice and feedback you guys. I am learning a lot.3 -
kschwab0203 wrote: »I started this post with "I know I'm a terrible person because I don't eat veggies" for a reason.
I'm being veggie shamed, LOL!
For really thought, thanks so much of all the advice and feedback you guys. I am learning a lot.
Not eating vegetables doesn't make you a terrible person. It means you may have some nutritional issues to consider that you wouldn't have if you ate vegetables, but there isn't a moral component to it.
Kicking dogs makes you a terrible person. Stealing money destined to buy holiday gifts for orphans makes you a terrible person. Talking on your cell phone in a movie theatre makes you a terrible person.
Not eating vegetables is just a food thing.7 -
LipSmackingFun wrote: »Queenmunchy wrote: »I have seen zero carb dieters and I think it would be so difficult (but I'm a veggie lover).
No one is completely "no carb". There are carbs in veggies but because of the fiber it really doesn't spike your blood sugar. I'm a veggie lover too
Actually, there are people who engage in a carnivore diet who are truly no carb I think, they don't eat any plant based products if I recall, not even cooking with vegetable oil? It is being suggested in this thread that many people eat animal based diets and are healthy... myself and others are suggesting that while it may technically be possible to be healthy on such a diet, it would require much more concentrated effort to get adequate variety of nutrients compared to eating a diet which does not restrict fruit, vegetables and grains...3 -
Notice the reasons I stated for why you need to eat vegetables had nothing to do with you being a terrible person, but they do affect your health and longevity.0
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kschwab0203 wrote: »I started this post with "I know I'm a terrible person because I don't eat veggies" for a reason.
I'm being veggie shamed, LOL!
For really thought, thanks so much of all the advice and feedback you guys. I am learning a lot.
I get veggie shamed all the time because I eat very little vegetables but for me it's for health reasons (I'm on a very low fiber diet and vegetables tear me apart). People look down on me all the time but hey that's their problem not mine.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »kschwab0203 wrote: »I started this post with "I know I'm a terrible person because I don't eat veggies" for a reason.
I'm being veggie shamed, LOL!
For really thought, thanks so much of all the advice and feedback you guys. I am learning a lot.
Not eating vegetables doesn't make you a terrible person. It means you may have some nutritional issues to consider that you wouldn't have if you ate vegetables, but there isn't a moral component to it.
Kicking dogs makes you a terrible person. Stealing money destined to buy holiday gifts for orphans makes you a terrible person. Talking on your cell phone in a movie theatre makes you a terrible person.
Not eating vegetables is just a food thing.
I don't really think I'm a terrible person. I was just being humorous.0 -
kschwab0203 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »kschwab0203 wrote: »I started this post with "I know I'm a terrible person because I don't eat veggies" for a reason.
I'm being veggie shamed, LOL!
For really thought, thanks so much of all the advice and feedback you guys. I am learning a lot.
Not eating vegetables doesn't make you a terrible person. It means you may have some nutritional issues to consider that you wouldn't have if you ate vegetables, but there isn't a moral component to it.
Kicking dogs makes you a terrible person. Stealing money destined to buy holiday gifts for orphans makes you a terrible person. Talking on your cell phone in a movie theatre makes you a terrible person.
Not eating vegetables is just a food thing.
I don't really think I'm a terrible person. I was just being humorous.
I thought you might have been, but I just wanted to make sure. Sometimes we get weird moral issues wrapped up with food, but I'm glad that isn't the case here! 2 -
LipSmackingFun wrote: »Queenmunchy wrote: »I have seen zero carb dieters and I think it would be so difficult (but I'm a veggie lover).
No one is completely "no carb". There are carbs in veggies but because of the fiber it really doesn't spike your blood sugar. I'm a veggie lover too
@LipSmackingFun - James Hogan is one person that I've come across http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/ and the stories on https://zerocarbzen.com/
Pretty extreme for me!0 -
Queenmunchy wrote: »LipSmackingFun wrote: »Queenmunchy wrote: »I have seen zero carb dieters and I think it would be so difficult (but I'm a veggie lover).
No one is completely "no carb". There are carbs in veggies but because of the fiber it really doesn't spike your blood sugar. I'm a veggie lover too
@LipSmackingFun - James Hogan is one person that I've come across http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/ and the stories on https://zerocarbzen.com/
Pretty extreme for me!
Omg her blog made me squeamish o.O0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Join the Low Carber Daily MFP group. There are a few keto'ers in there that found they felt better and better the more they cut their veggies. they are now essentially carnivores and quite happy and healthy.
Seafood is good to include if you can. For plant matter, if you want it, how about olives, nuts, seeds, pickles, avocados, coconut or hemp and chia? Can you eat veggies if they are well fatted up? My husband is not a fan of rabbit food but he'll eat it, and enjoy it if I add lots of cheese, butter or oil. Tonight is a broccoli cream cheese casserole. He will only eat cooked veggies too.
You can have some fruit. Just keep it low GI if you are having more than a couple of bites. Berries are the lowest GI.
If you can't have veggies, I wouldn't worry about it. If you eat good quality eggs, meat, dairy and seafood, you will be fine.
I just think that if you completely cut out veggies and fruit (since on LCHF you can't really have fruit), you are missing out on a lot of fiber, vitamins and minerals. While the short term effects might not be bad, it's not good for you in the long run. If you are doing LCHF, you really need to eat at least some vegetables.
The vitamins and minerals can be found in animal products. Fiber? Not so much but it appears to be most beneficial when one is eating vegetation.
There really is no evidence that an animal based diet is bad for you, as far as I know. If you have some sort of study on it I'd love to see it.Join the Low Carber Daily MFP group. There are a few keto'ers in there that found they felt better and better the more they cut their veggies. they are now essentially carnivores and quite happy and healthy.
Seafood is good to include if you can. For plant matter, if you want it, how about olives, nuts, seeds, pickles, avocados, coconut or hemp and chia? Can you eat veggies if they are well fatted up? My husband is not a fan of rabbit food but he'll eat it, and enjoy it if I add lots of cheese, butter or oil. Tonight is a broccoli cream cheese casserole. He will only eat cooked veggies too.
You can have some fruit. Just keep it low GI if you are having more than a couple of bites. Berries are the lowest GI.
If you can't have veggies, I wouldn't worry about it. If you eat good quality eggs, meat, dairy and seafood, you will be fine.
I'm confused on.....:"plant matter" and the foods you listed above, all of which are fruits and grains, except for the pickle which is pickled cucumber.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
I love my vegetables, but I've never thought of blending them as sauces for casseroles and pasta I'll have to try that.
I also don't now what rabbit food is....when I was a kid, my rabbit ate rabbit food from the pet food store.No snark, legit question: how can it be texture if you dislike all of them? They don't all have the same texture.
Finally, this is what I was thinking. There are so many types of vegetables that it seems odd that a person doesn't like a few of them.
My discovery from last year is spaghetti squash, which can be made into some wonderful dishes, including deserts!
Plant matter... matter from plants. She doesn't like veggies and I've been slapped around here for calling things like nuts veggies in the past, so "plant matter".
And it's my husband, of moderate carbs, who calls vegetables "rabbit food". To be fair, we had rabbits and they ate the vegetables and fruits. They didn't eat the cooked veggies but my husband will. Rabbit food.
Please don't be coy. It's a common insult to call vegetables "rabbit food".
It's also woefully ignorant to classify the broad array of plants together.
Spinach hardly fills the same nutritional niche as wheat.
In the same vein, you can't compare nuts and spinach either.
Not being coy. My husband calls veggies rabbit food. I do all of the cooking and I don't find that insulting. I don't think the vegetables are insulted.
And yes. I've been told it is wrong by some on MFP to group plants together. (I haven't been called ignorant before though.) That's why I called it plant matter.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Join the Low Carber Daily MFP group. There are a few keto'ers in there that found they felt better and better the more they cut their veggies. they are now essentially carnivores and quite happy and healthy.
Seafood is good to include if you can. For plant matter, if you want it, how about olives, nuts, seeds, pickles, avocados, coconut or hemp and chia? Can you eat veggies if they are well fatted up? My husband is not a fan of rabbit food but he'll eat it, and enjoy it if I add lots of cheese, butter or oil. Tonight is a broccoli cream cheese casserole. He will only eat cooked veggies too.
You can have some fruit. Just keep it low GI if you are having more than a couple of bites. Berries are the lowest GI.
If you can't have veggies, I wouldn't worry about it. If you eat good quality eggs, meat, dairy and seafood, you will be fine.
I just think that if you completely cut out veggies and fruit (since on LCHF you can't really have fruit), you are missing out on a lot of fiber, vitamins and minerals. While the short term effects might not be bad, it's not good for you in the long run. If you are doing LCHF, you really need to eat at least some vegetables.
The vitamins and minerals can be found in animal products. Fiber? Not so much but it appears to be most beneficial when one is eating vegetation.
There really is no evidence that an animal based diet is bad for you, as far as I know. If you have some sort of study on it I'd love to see it.Join the Low Carber Daily MFP group. There are a few keto'ers in there that found they felt better and better the more they cut their veggies. they are now essentially carnivores and quite happy and healthy.
Seafood is good to include if you can. For plant matter, if you want it, how about olives, nuts, seeds, pickles, avocados, coconut or hemp and chia? Can you eat veggies if they are well fatted up? My husband is not a fan of rabbit food but he'll eat it, and enjoy it if I add lots of cheese, butter or oil. Tonight is a broccoli cream cheese casserole. He will only eat cooked veggies too.
You can have some fruit. Just keep it low GI if you are having more than a couple of bites. Berries are the lowest GI.
If you can't have veggies, I wouldn't worry about it. If you eat good quality eggs, meat, dairy and seafood, you will be fine.
I'm confused on.....:"plant matter" and the foods you listed above, all of which are fruits and grains, except for the pickle which is pickled cucumber.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
I love my vegetables, but I've never thought of blending them as sauces for casseroles and pasta I'll have to try that.
I also don't now what rabbit food is....when I was a kid, my rabbit ate rabbit food from the pet food store.No snark, legit question: how can it be texture if you dislike all of them? They don't all have the same texture.
Finally, this is what I was thinking. There are so many types of vegetables that it seems odd that a person doesn't like a few of them.
My discovery from last year is spaghetti squash, which can be made into some wonderful dishes, including deserts!
Plant matter... matter from plants. She doesn't like veggies and I've been slapped around here for calling things like nuts veggies in the past, so "plant matter".
And it's my husband, of moderate carbs, who calls vegetables "rabbit food". To be fair, we had rabbits and they ate the vegetables and fruits. They didn't eat the cooked veggies but my husband will. Rabbit food.
Growing up we had a large garden and rabbits were my dad's nemesis, my sisters and I started calling all the veggies rabbit food to irk him We were kind of brats lol.
LOL
The hares ate my hostas and the marigolds (which supposedly repel rabbits) this year. Dumb bunnies.Join the Low Carber Daily MFP group. There are a few keto'ers in there that found they felt better and better the more they cut their veggies. they are now essentially carnivores and quite happy and healthy.
Seafood is good to include if you can. For plant matter, if you want it, how about olives, nuts, seeds, pickles, avocados, coconut or hemp and chia? Can you eat veggies if they are well fatted up? My husband is not a fan of rabbit food but he'll eat it, and enjoy it if I add lots of cheese, butter or oil. Tonight is a broccoli cream cheese casserole. He will only eat cooked veggies too.
You can have some fruit. Just keep it low GI if you are having more than a couple of bites. Berries are the lowest GI.
If you can't have veggies, I wouldn't worry about it. If you eat good quality eggs, meat, dairy and seafood, you will be fine.
I just think that if you completely cut out veggies and fruit (since on LCHF you can't really have fruit), you are missing out on a lot of fiber, vitamins and minerals. While the short term effects might not be bad, it's not good for you in the long run. If you are doing LCHF, you really need to eat at least some vegetables.
The vitamins and minerals can be found in animal products. Fiber? Not so much but it appears to be most beneficial when one is eating vegetation.
There really is no evidence that an animal based diet is bad for you, as far as I know. If you have some sort of study on it I'd love to see it.Join the Low Carber Daily MFP group. There are a few keto'ers in there that found they felt better and better the more they cut their veggies. they are now essentially carnivores and quite happy and healthy.
Seafood is good to include if you can. For plant matter, if you want it, how about olives, nuts, seeds, pickles, avocados, coconut or hemp and chia? Can you eat veggies if they are well fatted up? My husband is not a fan of rabbit food but he'll eat it, and enjoy it if I add lots of cheese, butter or oil. Tonight is a broccoli cream cheese casserole. He will only eat cooked veggies too.
You can have some fruit. Just keep it low GI if you are having more than a couple of bites. Berries are the lowest GI.
If you can't have veggies, I wouldn't worry about it. If you eat good quality eggs, meat, dairy and seafood, you will be fine.
I'm confused on.....:"plant matter" and the foods you listed above, all of which are fruits and grains, except for the pickle which is pickled cucumber.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
I love my vegetables, but I've never thought of blending them as sauces for casseroles and pasta I'll have to try that.
I also don't now what rabbit food is....when I was a kid, my rabbit ate rabbit food from the pet food store.No snark, legit question: how can it be texture if you dislike all of them? They don't all have the same texture.
Finally, this is what I was thinking. There are so many types of vegetables that it seems odd that a person doesn't like a few of them.
My discovery from last year is spaghetti squash, which can be made into some wonderful dishes, including deserts!
Plant matter... matter from plants. She doesn't like veggies and I've been slapped around here for calling things like nuts veggies in the past, so "plant matter".
And it's my husband, of moderate carbs, who calls vegetables "rabbit food". To be fair, we had rabbits and they ate the vegetables and fruits. They didn't eat the cooked veggies but my husband will. Rabbit food.
The point is that just because something grows off a plant does not mean it's a vegetable. You can't replace vegetables with your list of plant foods because they're not vegetables and have a whole different nutritional value.
Calling vegetables rabbit food is an insult to those of us who happen to like vegetables and treasure their nutritional value.
The veggies aren't insulted. Really.
People don't like coconut oil but I'm not insulted. A vegan may call meats living things and not want to eat them but I am not insulted just because they don't. My nephew doesn't like the way I cook a roast. Again, not insulted.
Being insulted by the term rabbit food is a bit too sensitive or PC. It's just vegetables.
Grouping foods together that are not at all the same, and calling foods by slang names, does not make sense in the context of the OP's question, or even a LCHF diteary plan.0 -
Queenmunchy wrote: »LipSmackingFun wrote: »Queenmunchy wrote: »I have seen zero carb dieters and I think it would be so difficult (but I'm a veggie lover).
No one is completely "no carb". There are carbs in veggies but because of the fiber it really doesn't spike your blood sugar. I'm a veggie lover too
@LipSmackingFun - James Hogan is one person that I've come across http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/ and the stories on https://zerocarbzen.com/
Pretty extreme for me!
Even in my most staunch paleo days I found the zero carb fringe to be especially irritating. It's called a balanced diet, there's nothing balanced about eating the same thing all the time. I know people who have tried to live on meat...no thanks! Certain foods give you certain vitamins, minerals, macro/micronutrients. We have evolved to be omnivores and thus TOP of the food chain. Don't waste your life overthinking that genetic legacy! EAT ALL THE WHOLE FOODS!1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »I eat LCHF and eat veggies. In fact, early on in the transition, I ate even more veggies than I do today. The key is that there are starchy veggies (root veggies like potatoes, grains like corn, and most beans/legumes), and there are non-starchy veggies (lettuce, spinach, broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, etc.). I eat LCHF by sticking with non-starchy veggies. There was a time when I would eat 1-2 salads every day (no croutons). Last night, I had a huge salad. I've got some broccoli and cauliflower in the fridge that I plan to steam soon.
Do I eat meat?! Yes, absolutely. I also eat cheese and eggs, but LCHF doesn't mean you can't eat any veggies. Depending on how low carb you want to go, you might be able to fit more veggies and perhaps even fruits. Otherwise, I end up with about 20g-30g of carbs per day and still eat a lot of salads.
I'm on board with this...but there are several keto posters here who always insist that veggies just aren't important and I believe that to be very misguided and pretty crappy advice to be pedaling...
I would think you could eat a ton of veggies on a keto diet...and I'd think one should...
Most keto'ers do eat veggies. The vast majority do. A minority does not. It's the statement that one SHOULD eat veggies is what I am challenging. Why should one eat veggies? What is that "should" based upon?
Everyone should eat their veggies...the vast majority of people aren't going to get proper nutrition without their veggies...but you just keep telling random people here that they don't need them and that they aren't important...you don't say anything about what they need to do to actually get proper nutrition otherwise (and c'mon...most people aren't going to be eating a whole lot of organ meat)...you just keep preaching that they aren't necessary to a healthy diet...for the vast majority of people to get proper nutrition without supplements they are.
I'm pretty sure general consensus world over is that vegetables are very important to a healthy, balanced diet...just stop with your crap already.
Cosigned.
Vegetables also contain phytonutrients, something you cannot get from organ meats or rare/lightly cooked meat.
We've only just scratched the surface when it comes to knowing the benefits they confer.
Additionally, I've seen various diaries of people on keto. Some? Stellar vegetable intake. They maximize their carb allowance by loading up on leafy greens and other fibrous veggies and get in a lot of high quality micronutrients that way.
Others? Lots of nuts and dairy take up the carb count, very little in the way of actual vegetables gets consumed.
I'm not being fooled by claims made by some posters in this thread.
WRT to the history of "rabbit food" being used as an insult, it was often an insult used against either vegetarians, or oddly enough women by men back in the day (because steak and potatoes was "man food").
It's again coy to say that the vegetables aren't insulted.
I never, ever thought I'd have to explain this. Perhaps growing up in another era than I did influences this, or being more sheltered. I grew up in the 60's and 70's in Philadelphia, for a frame of reference.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »kschwab0203 wrote: »I started this post with "I know I'm a terrible person because I don't eat veggies" for a reason.
I'm being veggie shamed, LOL!
For really thought, thanks so much of all the advice and feedback you guys. I am learning a lot.
I get veggie shamed all the time because I eat very little vegetables but for me it's for health reasons (I'm on a very low fiber diet and vegetables tear me apart). People look down on me all the time but hey that's their problem not mine.
You get a pass. I bet there are some you miss.
Do you have issues with fruit too?1 -
Join the Low Carber Daily MFP group. There are a few keto'ers in there that found they felt better and better the more they cut their veggies. they are now essentially carnivores and quite happy and healthy.
Seafood is good to include if you can. For plant matter, if you want it, how about olives, nuts, seeds, pickles, avocados, coconut or hemp and chia? Can you eat veggies if they are well fatted up? My husband is not a fan of rabbit food but he'll eat it, and enjoy it if I add lots of cheese, butter or oil. Tonight is a broccoli cream cheese casserole. He will only eat cooked veggies too.
You can have some fruit. Just keep it low GI if you are having more than a couple of bites. Berries are the lowest GI.
If you can't have veggies, I wouldn't worry about it. If you eat good quality eggs, meat, dairy and seafood, you will be fine.
I just think that if you completely cut out veggies and fruit (since on LCHF you can't really have fruit), you are missing out on a lot of fiber, vitamins and minerals. While the short term effects might not be bad, it's not good for you in the long run. If you are doing LCHF, you really need to eat at least some vegetables.
The vitamins and minerals can be found in animal products. Fiber? Not so much but it appears to be most beneficial when one is eating vegetation.
There really is no evidence that an animal based diet is bad for you, as far as I know. If you have some sort of study on it I'd love to see it.
It would be pretty hard to get vitamins A and C with only meat and dairy. Also, fiber as you noted is almost nonexistent, which has the unfortunate result of constipation in a lot of people. There really aren't too many studies on the all meat diet. Really the only one was done in the 1930s with a population size of 2. They were also explorers and physically fit and it only lasted a year. It's also not a very compelling sample size. It really hasn't been studied so yes, there are no studies that prove it's bad, but there aren't any that say it's good. Also, to be honest, you can make a study say anything. Just google studies on meat consumption and you will get everything from "eating meat is worse that smoking" to "high fat diets are not the nail in the coffin we thought." And you can definitely find tons of studies on vitamin deficent diets with some crazy side effects (blindness, scurvy, etc.) But even most keto/Atkins promote low carb, high fiber veggies. If the poster does not want to eat veggies, she can at least get this stuff in fruit and whole grains, which would be hard to fit into a low carb diet. I'm sure it helps some people and I definitely lean on the side of low carb high fat/protein diet. But I also eat tons of veggies. I feel like most doctors would recommend cutting out all produce.
I don't recommend cutting out all produce either. I like it. But I do know people who feel better, and are healthier, eating that way.
I agree that there are many (any?) studies out here on animal product diets but we know they are safe since a few cultures eat (ate) that way and were quite healthy. It isn't a bad thing. It's just unusual and some people seem to have a hard time with the fact that it is a safe way to eat.
Vitamin A is often best got from animal products, especially organ meat, and vitamin C is in meats, and at fairly good levels if it is not well cooked. Scurvy and such occurred more when people were subsisting mainly on grains and sugars, because of their long shelf life. If unsure, one could always add a multivitamin.
I agree with you. The original poster said she doesn't eat veggies and there may be a small handful of people that can survive on animal products alone. For most people, that is not going to to healthy in the long run. And yes, there were groups of cultures that did subsist on mainly animal products. However, they lived a very different lifestyle than us (lots of manual labor, etc.) and they used the whole animal. Most people don't like organ meat in the US. It is hard to find at a normal super market in a form that is not processed (i.e. pate). Also, I am not sure what meat you are referencing that has vitamin C. I have never seen this. Maybe there is something, but once again, it's not easily sourced. Yes. You could take multi vitamins. There have been lots of studies however, that recommend them to fill small gaps (and some that say that are a complete waste of money and not to bother.) Not to replace the nutrients. The reason why they (along with fortified products) don't have the same effect as getting them naturally from food, is likely because they are made in labs and our bodies are just not designed to take 500% of your daily vitamin C all at once. For me personally, most vitamins make me feel nauseous (yes, I have tried cutting them in half and eating them after meals.)
I learned today that Vitamin C is present in raw meat. It doesn't survive the cooking process. To get vitamin C, a carnivore would have to eat the meat either raw, or barely cooked.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »kschwab0203 wrote: »I started this post with "I know I'm a terrible person because I don't eat veggies" for a reason.
I'm being veggie shamed, LOL!
For really thought, thanks so much of all the advice and feedback you guys. I am learning a lot.
I get veggie shamed all the time because I eat very little vegetables but for me it's for health reasons (I'm on a very low fiber diet and vegetables tear me apart). People look down on me all the time but hey that's their problem not mine.
You get a pass. I bet there are some you miss.
Do you have issues with fruit too?
Yes unfortunately.1
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