Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
-
thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
My issue is with #1. Did they choose?
People don't understand the power of habit, genetic makeup, medications and stress that combine to make weight loss or gain more complicated than a choice.
For years, I chose to lose weight and gained weight instead.
It was only after much prayer and solutions to the obstacles I faced was I able to lose weight.
So what I'm saying is that you think a lot less compassionately than you act, and I'm sure it comes across even if you are unaware of it.
You are right, there are many factors combined in trying to lose weight. The fact that you were ineffectively engaged in trying to lose weight didn't take away from the fact that you were still trying.
And that makes you different from a good chunk of fat acceptance advocates.
What you fail to realize is that there are people actively choosing to give up on losing weight and are actively choosing to be overfat.
If I'm not mistaken, that is the group of people the other poster was referring to.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
My issue is with #1. Did they choose?
People don't understand the power of habit, genetic makeup, medications and stress that combine to make weight loss or gain more complicated than a choice.
For years, I chose to lose weight and gained weight instead.
It was only after much prayer and solutions to the obstacles I faced was I able to lose weight.
So what I'm saying is that you think a lot less compassionately than you act, and I'm sure it comes across even if you are unaware of it.
You are right, there are many factors combined in trying to lose weight. The fact that you were ineffectively engaged in trying to lose weight didn't take away from the fact that you were still trying.
And that makes you different from a good chunk of fat acceptance advocates.
What you fail to realize is that there are people actively choosing to give up on losing weight and are actively choosing to be overfat.
If I'm not mistaken, that is the group of people the other poster was referring to.
Sometimes getting off the rollercoaster for a while to just love oneself is what is needed for some people's mental health. And better self love and peace leads to positive change.
As for me, I just refused to hate myself (God forgave me, so I'm not holding on to guilt), and I refused to stop trying. But you couldn't tell that from looking at me, so I'm sure people were busy judging, no matter that I was putting in more effort.
And advice from people like move less, eat more or calories in, calories out, do the hard work, or just do it, was the equivalent of a business person saying the key to business success is to make more sales than expenses. You see how trite it sounds to your ears when applied in other situations.
3 -
Being fat isn't the issue to me. It's the health issues that go along with being fat. Health first.2
-
thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
My issue is with #1. Did they choose?
People don't understand the power of habit, genetic makeup, medications and stress that combine to make weight loss or gain more complicated than a choice.
For years, I chose to lose weight and gained weight instead.
It was only after much prayer and solutions to the obstacles I faced was I able to lose weight.
So what I'm saying is that you think a lot less compassionately than you act, and I'm sure it comes across even if you are unaware of it.
None of those things force people to take in more calories than they burn. If you gain weight, it's because you've chosen to consume more than you need.
Weight gain is a choice. Weight loss is a choice. Maintaining is a choice. Every food item that passes your lips is a choice to ingest those calories.
Medicine and medical conditions can make it more difficult, but what you eat is *always* still a choice.
4 -
^ I'm not going to judge people, you don't know what's going on in someone else's life.
We have Sweets and soda manufacturers advertising to kids, most people have been addicted to sugar and salt since they were kids
And it's not just about calories, the food industry is willing to sell cancer causing substances wrapped in sugar to kids in order to make an extra penny on the dollar.
Yeah I believe in personal accountability, but you hold yourself accountable, not people you know nothing about.
It's too easy for people to get on a high horse and start pointing fingers at everyone else who has problems they don't, while acting like they don't have any problems themselves that the people they point at don't either.3 -
xmichaelyx wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
My issue is with #1. Did they choose?
People don't understand the power of habit, genetic makeup, medications and stress that combine to make weight loss or gain more complicated than a choice.
For years, I chose to lose weight and gained weight instead.
It was only after much prayer and solutions to the obstacles I faced was I able to lose weight.
So what I'm saying is that you think a lot less compassionately than you act, and I'm sure it comes across even if you are unaware of it.
None of those things force people to take in more calories than they burn. If you gain weight, it's because you've chosen to consume more than you need.
Weight gain is a choice. Weight loss is a choice. Maintaining is a choice. Every food item that passes your lips is a choice to ingest those calories.
Medicine and medical conditions can make it more difficult, but what you eat is *always* still a choice.
Then why are you so fat?1 -
JstTheWayIam wrote: »^ I'm not going to judge people, you don't know what's going on in someone else's life.
We have Sweets and soda manufacturers advertising to kids, most people have been addicted to sugar and salt since they were kids
And it's not just about calories, the food industry is willing to sell cancer causing substances wrapped in sugar to kids in order to make an extra penny on the dollar.
Yeah I believe in personal accountability, but you hold yourself accountable, not people you know nothing about.
It's too easy for people to get on a high horse and start pointing fingers at everyone else who has problems they don't, while acting like they don't have any problems themselves that the people they point at don't either.
Love this. You get a friend request!3 -
thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
My issue is with #1. Did they choose?
People don't understand the power of habit, genetic makeup, medications and stress that combine to make weight loss or gain more complicated than a choice.
For years, I chose to lose weight and gained weight instead.
It was only after much prayer and solutions to the obstacles I faced was I able to lose weight.
So what I'm saying is that you think a lot less compassionately than you act, and I'm sure it comes across even if you are unaware of it.
You are right, there are many factors combined in trying to lose weight. The fact that you were ineffectively engaged in trying to lose weight didn't take away from the fact that you were still trying.
And that makes you different from a good chunk of fat acceptance advocates.
What you fail to realize is that there are people actively choosing to give up on losing weight and are actively choosing to be overfat.
If I'm not mistaken, that is the group of people the other poster was referring to.
Sometimes getting off the rollercoaster for a while to just love oneself is what is needed for some people's mental health. And better self love and peace leads to positive change.
As for me, I just refused to hate myself (God forgave me, so I'm not holding on to guilt), and I refused to stop trying. But you couldn't tell that from looking at me, so I'm sure people were busy judging, no matter that I was putting in more effort.
And advice from people like move less, eat more or calories in, calories out, do the hard work, or just do it, was the equivalent of a business person saying the key to business success is to make more sales than expenses. You see how trite it sounds to your ears when applied in other situations.
You're missing what I'm saying here.
I am not talking about people like you, who are still interested in pursuing a healthy weight at some point. I'm not talking about people who are aware they have issues with food and a problem with eating and just can't figure out how to address it.
I am not talking about the idea that people can't and shouldn't love and accept themselves.
There is a group of people who actively embrace out and out gluttony. There is just no other word for it. Posts from the celebrating binging in parking lots on fast food. This is behavior most people would feel embarrassed about, and they celebrate it as part of the life they lead.
They want to be protected as a special class, feeling they were just born this way, wanting to eat massive quantities of unhealthy food and have absolutely no self-awareness connecting their behavior to their size or idea that they might have emotional issues underlying the drive to keep eating.
This is a good chunk of the Fat Acceptance movement. Can you really support these people, committing slow suicide by food, not through ignorance, nor inability to conquer demons in spite of their best efforts, but through the active choice to plug their ears to and blind their eyes to everything telling them that it's unhealthy to be the way they choose to be.
I know I can't.
5 -
I have seen people fat shame and skinny shame. I have seen plenty of underweight girls and guys be shamed for being so unhealthy. Science has proven being underweight is just as detrimental to your health as being obese. My sister is underweight. She is always in the hospital. Always gets sick. Has lost her teeth etc. I think people in general tend to be more excepting of underweight opposed to obese but these are no different from one another as far as health issues go. The only difference is visual. I think this is what should be talked about more.1
-
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
My issue is with #1. Did they choose?
People don't understand the power of habit, genetic makeup, medications and stress that combine to make weight loss or gain more complicated than a choice.
For years, I chose to lose weight and gained weight instead.
It was only after much prayer and solutions to the obstacles I faced was I able to lose weight.
So what I'm saying is that you think a lot less compassionately than you act, and I'm sure it comes across even if you are unaware of it.
You are right, there are many factors combined in trying to lose weight. The fact that you were ineffectively engaged in trying to lose weight didn't take away from the fact that you were still trying.
And that makes you different from a good chunk of fat acceptance advocates.
What you fail to realize is that there are people actively choosing to give up on losing weight and are actively choosing to be overfat.
If I'm not mistaken, that is the group of people the other poster was referring to.
Sometimes getting off the rollercoaster for a while to just love oneself is what is needed for some people's mental health. And better self love and peace leads to positive change.
As for me, I just refused to hate myself (God forgave me, so I'm not holding on to guilt), and I refused to stop trying. But you couldn't tell that from looking at me, so I'm sure people were busy judging, no matter that I was putting in more effort.
And advice from people like move less, eat more or calories in, calories out, do the hard work, or just do it, was the equivalent of a business person saying the key to business success is to make more sales than expenses. You see how trite it sounds to your ears when applied in other situations.
You're missing what I'm saying here.
I am not talking about people like you, who are still interested in pursuing a healthy weight at some point. I'm not talking about people who are aware they have issues with food and a problem with eating and just can't figure out how to address it.
I am not talking about the idea that people can't and shouldn't love and accept themselves.
There is a group of people who actively embrace out and out gluttony. There is just no other word for it. Posts from the celebrating binging in parking lots on fast food. This is behavior most people would feel embarrassed about, and they celebrate it as part of the life they lead.
They want to be protected as a special class, feeling they were just born this way, wanting to eat massive quantities of unhealthy food and have absolutely no self-awareness connecting their behavior to their size or idea that they might have emotional issues underlying the drive to keep eating.
This is a good chunk of the Fat Acceptance movement. Can you really support these people, committing slow suicide by food, not through ignorance, nor inability to conquer demons in spite of their best efforts, but through the active choice to plug their ears to and blind their eyes to everything telling them that it's unhealthy to be the way they choose to be.
I know I can't.
I can. I'm all for letting people do whatever the hell they want. If they want to eat themselves to death and take up two plane seats while doing it, I consider it none of my business. I'll enjoy them while they're here, especially if they're smart, funny, caring or interesting in some way which makes me want to be friends with them.
And as far as the argument goes that supports indignation at having to pay for their subsidized healthcare or Section 8 apartments for the super morbidly obese, I don't really care about that either. If the taxes I pay go in part to rehabilitate, detoxify, house, feed and transport citizens who harm themselves similarly by indulging in other bad habits - and they most definitely do - then I'm fine with a portion of my income pie going to the suicidal eaters.
When and if they ever suss out actual criteria for the small subset of the morbidly obese who meet the threshold for being addicted to eating? I'd have no problem with them being subsidized, because addiction is a mental illness.
Not all obese people are addicts, though.2 -
Wiggymommy wrote: »The only difference is visual. I think this is what should be talked about more.
I am against fat shaming and skinny shaming. However, the key difference that leads to obesity being talked about more is that the obesity rate is quite high and poses a significant societal health problem. Underweight caused by something other than an absence of food availability is comparatively quite rare or associated with other underlying health problems. Underweight in some places is connected with food scarcity/lack of availability, and that is a concern, but a different types of one (hunger).
People don't talk about obesity merely because they don't like fatness. It's a genuine social concern, and most people who are fat don't want to be and likely could be thinner.
That's on the societal level.
On the individual level, not my business unless they ask me for help/advice, IMO.1 -
I wonder if these fat acceptance people condone young kids who are already obese and are heading into adulthood to become morbidly obese!!?? This is tantamount to child abuse IMHO. If they say this is Aok then they are truly a bunch of idiots
5 -
JstTheWayIam wrote: »Sure acceptance is important..
Its best to workout and eat healthy because you love yourself... Not because you hate yourself..
How can you ever love yourself enough to make lasting changes if you don't accept who you are right now.
I had joined a Facebook group that focused on being happy at any size, about a year before I decided to lose weight. I do feel like it helped me become more confident and happy in my own skin. Which helped me stay the course and have the determination to get healthy. I've lost over 110lbs.13 -
Until I found body positivity and fat acceptance I was too embarrassed to go to the gym. I didn't do many fun activities because I felt people would stare...and they do. I lost weight quickly and gained it back twice as quickly. Now I eat healthier than ever, I don't diet. I treat my body well because I deserve to. I do fun active things because I deserve to. I have interest in things like running, and group fitness because I accept my body for what it is now and want to always treat it better. I'm still fat. But now I don't let it stop me from living and working towards improvement, And I'm not ashamed of my body but it's okay to change it if I want to, and I've been on a down cycle on the scales since 2013, that's three years of treating my body and soul better.
So it's not about accepting being fat and acting like being fat is better than not being fat, it's about being ok with where you are and allowing you to do better if you want. It's about stoping the shame. It matters. I love fat acceptance and body positivity. It has changed my life and made me so much less judgmental...of others and myself.
But just like any movement, there are some fringe members that make it look bad.13 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
My issue is with #1. Did they choose?
People don't understand the power of habit, genetic makeup, medications and stress that combine to make weight loss or gain more complicated than a choice.
For years, I chose to lose weight and gained weight instead.
It was only after much prayer and solutions to the obstacles I faced was I able to lose weight.
So what I'm saying is that you think a lot less compassionately than you act, and I'm sure it comes across even if you are unaware of it.
You are right, there are many factors combined in trying to lose weight. The fact that you were ineffectively engaged in trying to lose weight didn't take away from the fact that you were still trying.
And that makes you different from a good chunk of fat acceptance advocates.
What you fail to realize is that there are people actively choosing to give up on losing weight and are actively choosing to be overfat.
If I'm not mistaken, that is the group of people the other poster was referring to.
Sometimes getting off the rollercoaster for a while to just love oneself is what is needed for some people's mental health. And better self love and peace leads to positive change.
As for me, I just refused to hate myself (God forgave me, so I'm not holding on to guilt), and I refused to stop trying. But you couldn't tell that from looking at me, so I'm sure people were busy judging, no matter that I was putting in more effort.
And advice from people like move less, eat more or calories in, calories out, do the hard work, or just do it, was the equivalent of a business person saying the key to business success is to make more sales than expenses. You see how trite it sounds to your ears when applied in other situations.
You're missing what I'm saying here.
I am not talking about people like you, who are still interested in pursuing a healthy weight at some point. I'm not talking about people who are aware they have issues with food and a problem with eating and just can't figure out how to address it.
I am not talking about the idea that people can't and shouldn't love and accept themselves.
There is a group of people who actively embrace out and out gluttony. There is just no other word for it. Posts from the celebrating binging in parking lots on fast food. This is behavior most people would feel embarrassed about, and they celebrate it as part of the life they lead.
They want to be protected as a special class, feeling they were just born this way, wanting to eat massive quantities of unhealthy food and have absolutely no self-awareness connecting their behavior to their size or idea that they might have emotional issues underlying the drive to keep eating.
This is a good chunk of the Fat Acceptance movement. Can you really support these people, committing slow suicide by food, not through ignorance, nor inability to conquer demons in spite of their best efforts, but through the active choice to plug their ears to and blind their eyes to everything telling them that it's unhealthy to be the way they choose to be.
I know I can't.
Just look at what Tararenee3913 said. She said it better than I could.
Have a nice day.1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I wonder if these fat acceptance people condone young kids who are already obese and are heading into adulthood to become morbidly obese!!?? This is tantamount to child abuse IMHO. If they say this is Aok then they are truly a bunch of idiots
Sadly Christine, there is an arm of that movement who does in fact condone obese children in the name of not "shaming" them, because they believe intervening in trying to control their weight in some way is shaming them.
Here's a case of a girl who died, morbidly obese, and the FA movement was there to support the mother who was tried for criminal neglect.
http://articles.latimes.com/1997/dec/26/news/mn-23572 -
thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
My issue is with #1. Did they choose?
People don't understand the power of habit, genetic makeup, medications and stress that combine to make weight loss or gain more complicated than a choice.
For years, I chose to lose weight and gained weight instead.
It was only after much prayer and solutions to the obstacles I faced was I able to lose weight.
So what I'm saying is that you think a lot less compassionately than you act, and I'm sure it comes across even if you are unaware of it.
You are right, there are many factors combined in trying to lose weight. The fact that you were ineffectively engaged in trying to lose weight didn't take away from the fact that you were still trying.
And that makes you different from a good chunk of fat acceptance advocates.
What you fail to realize is that there are people actively choosing to give up on losing weight and are actively choosing to be overfat.
If I'm not mistaken, that is the group of people the other poster was referring to.
Sometimes getting off the rollercoaster for a while to just love oneself is what is needed for some people's mental health. And better self love and peace leads to positive change.
As for me, I just refused to hate myself (God forgave me, so I'm not holding on to guilt), and I refused to stop trying. But you couldn't tell that from looking at me, so I'm sure people were busy judging, no matter that I was putting in more effort.
And advice from people like move less, eat more or calories in, calories out, do the hard work, or just do it, was the equivalent of a business person saying the key to business success is to make more sales than expenses. You see how trite it sounds to your ears when applied in other situations.
You're missing what I'm saying here.
I am not talking about people like you, who are still interested in pursuing a healthy weight at some point. I'm not talking about people who are aware they have issues with food and a problem with eating and just can't figure out how to address it.
I am not talking about the idea that people can't and shouldn't love and accept themselves.
There is a group of people who actively embrace out and out gluttony. There is just no other word for it. Posts from the celebrating binging in parking lots on fast food. This is behavior most people would feel embarrassed about, and they celebrate it as part of the life they lead.
They want to be protected as a special class, feeling they were just born this way, wanting to eat massive quantities of unhealthy food and have absolutely no self-awareness connecting their behavior to their size or idea that they might have emotional issues underlying the drive to keep eating.
This is a good chunk of the Fat Acceptance movement. Can you really support these people, committing slow suicide by food, not through ignorance, nor inability to conquer demons in spite of their best efforts, but through the active choice to plug their ears to and blind their eyes to everything telling them that it's unhealthy to be the way they choose to be.
I know I can't.
Just look at what Tararenee3913 said. She said it better than I could.
Have a nice day.
http://articles.latimes.com/1997/dec/26/news/mn-2357
Read this.
Especially the second page, about the Size Acceptance movement involvement. That's what the movement is about. That's the what the arm of the movement I'm talking about is. And it's not the fringe. They are making inroads. I posted proof above.
This isn't about accepting yourself and empowering yourself to make positive changes. This is something else entirely.
Have a nice day.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
My issue is with #1. Did they choose?
People don't understand the power of habit, genetic makeup, medications and stress that combine to make weight loss or gain more complicated than a choice.
For years, I chose to lose weight and gained weight instead.
It was only after much prayer and solutions to the obstacles I faced was I able to lose weight.
So what I'm saying is that you think a lot less compassionately than you act, and I'm sure it comes across even if you are unaware of it.
You are right, there are many factors combined in trying to lose weight. The fact that you were ineffectively engaged in trying to lose weight didn't take away from the fact that you were still trying.
And that makes you different from a good chunk of fat acceptance advocates.
What you fail to realize is that there are people actively choosing to give up on losing weight and are actively choosing to be overfat.
If I'm not mistaken, that is the group of people the other poster was referring to.
Sometimes getting off the rollercoaster for a while to just love oneself is what is needed for some people's mental health. And better self love and peace leads to positive change.
As for me, I just refused to hate myself (God forgave me, so I'm not holding on to guilt), and I refused to stop trying. But you couldn't tell that from looking at me, so I'm sure people were busy judging, no matter that I was putting in more effort.
And advice from people like move less, eat more or calories in, calories out, do the hard work, or just do it, was the equivalent of a business person saying the key to business success is to make more sales than expenses. You see how trite it sounds to your ears when applied in other situations.
You're missing what I'm saying here.
I am not talking about people like you, who are still interested in pursuing a healthy weight at some point. I'm not talking about people who are aware they have issues with food and a problem with eating and just can't figure out how to address it.
I am not talking about the idea that people can't and shouldn't love and accept themselves.
There is a group of people who actively embrace out and out gluttony. There is just no other word for it. Posts from the celebrating binging in parking lots on fast food. This is behavior most people would feel embarrassed about, and they celebrate it as part of the life they lead.
They want to be protected as a special class, feeling they were just born this way, wanting to eat massive quantities of unhealthy food and have absolutely no self-awareness connecting their behavior to their size or idea that they might have emotional issues underlying the drive to keep eating.
This is a good chunk of the Fat Acceptance movement. Can you really support these people, committing slow suicide by food, not through ignorance, nor inability to conquer demons in spite of their best efforts, but through the active choice to plug their ears to and blind their eyes to everything telling them that it's unhealthy to be the way they choose to be.
I know I can't.
Just look at what Tararenee3913 said. She said it better than I could.
Have a nice day.
http://articles.latimes.com/1997/dec/26/news/mn-2357
Read this.
Especially the second page, about the Size Acceptance movement involvement. That's what the movement is about. That's the what the arm of the movement I'm talking about is. And it's not the fringe. They are making inroads. I posted proof above.
This isn't about accepting yourself and empowering yourself to make positive changes. This is something else entirely.
Have a nice day.
Jesus Christ. Throw a few awkward zingers in there, and I'd have thought that was an Onion article.4 -
justrollme wrote: »This guy voices my opinion on this with a lot more eloquence than I would:
thank you1 -
Mostly fish and vegetables, based on the traditional Japanese diet with less "Western" food choices.midwesterner85 wrote: »How exactly do they make "healthy" cafeteria menus?
Also reasonable portion sizes...
Do a Google search for details.
1 -
These threads are alwasy a kitten storm. yes I types kitten ahead of the censors. lol
Fact - I am no healthier for losing weight because my weight NEVER made me unhealthy. It's amazing how many people get super angry with me and want me to not believe my own personal experience, backed up with medical records. It's amazing how many doctors would get visibly angry when they would test me for all the "fat person" illnesses and couldn't find any. My real illnesses have been present since birth and it is very true that doctors have never had any interest in treating them because they were too busy looking for reasons to be mad at me for being fat.
I have been on this stupid "weight loss journey" for social acceptance, nothing more, because people are viciously, hatefully cruel to fat people, have called me names you wouldn't believe, told me to die or kill myself, that I shouldn't exist, shouldn't do anything, shouldn't eat at all, shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion, and things I can't say here because they would all be "kittened" out. None of these things made me want to do anything more than lock myself in my bedroom and cry. Why do people think these things "encourage people to lose weight"?
I suppose in a sense it is true - eventually they pushed me into an eating disorder because I hated myself. I have not lost weight healthily and am in much worse shape now than when I was fat.10 -
positivepowers wrote: »I'm a nurse in a hospital in the unhealthiest town you can imagine. A large percent of our population are >300 lbs. As in, as small as my town is, we have several scooter stores and the majority of the scooters the medical equipment stores carry are bariatric.
What I've never understood is the attitude of the morbidly obese with whom I deal. Mostly they are either militant about it ("Yes, I'm fat, do you have something to say about it?") or clueless ("Morbidly obese? Me? When I went to bed last night I weighed 120 lbs., now you say I'm over 400? WTH? When did this happen?")
Just because you love yourself and accept your failings doesn't mean you must give into them. As another poster stated, "FA is bu11$hit."
Today I learned the term bariatic. Thank you0 -
seekingdaintiness wrote: »These threads are alwasy a kitten storm. yes I types kitten ahead of the censors. lol
Fact - I am no healthier for losing weight because my weight NEVER made me unhealthy. It's amazing how many people get super angry with me and want me to not believe my own personal experience, backed up with medical records. It's amazing how many doctors would get visibly angry when they would test me for all the "fat person" illnesses and couldn't find any. My real illnesses have been present since birth and it is very true that doctors have never had any interest in treating them because they were too busy looking for reasons to be mad at me for being fat.
I have been on this stupid "weight loss journey" for social acceptance, nothing more, because people are viciously, hatefully cruel to fat people, have called me names you wouldn't believe, told me to die or kill myself, that I shouldn't exist, shouldn't do anything, shouldn't eat at all, shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion, and things I can't say here because they would all be "kittened" out. None of these things made me want to do anything more than lock myself in my bedroom and cry. Why do people think these things "encourage people to lose weight"?
I suppose in a sense it is true - eventually they pushed me into an eating disorder because I hated myself. I have not lost weight healthily and am in much worse shape now than when I was fat.
You are 1 person. There are many that have a plethora of illnesses caused by or contributed to by their obesity.4 -
Acceptance of everyone, no matter their looks, is a nice thought. However, I think that by accepting obesity as healthy is kind of like saying "Go ahead, keep gaining weight. You'll be fine."
It should be "I accept the way you look and I'm not judging. Let's give you the tools and the support to get to a healthier weight."
Being obese is not healthy, no matter what spin some people may try to put on it. I'm obese and have been losing weight since June. While I am a lot healthier today than I was a year ago, I've got a long way to go. People need tools and support, not judgement.3 -
CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
Yes, exactly. I don't accept that you can be healthy at any size. Weight affects many things. HOWEVER, it's not my place to tell another person who to take care of themselves or to try and shame them into doing what I want them to do. Sure I may MENTALLY judge someone, but it's INSIDE my head. Everyone mentally judges people. If someone says they don't they are a darn liar.3 -
Mostly fish and vegetables, based on the traditional Japanese diet with less "Western" food choices.midwesterner85 wrote: »How exactly do they make "healthy" cafeteria menus?
Also reasonable portion sizes...
Do a Google search for details.
As much as I keep hearing on these forums that it doesn't matter WHAT you eat, it is HOW MUCH, I wouldn't expect the actual ingredients to matter. Nonetheless, most fast food meals in America come with a vegetable (potatoes / french fries), so the difference is fish vs. beef and portion sizes.
So then if I were to subscribe to the argument that the "healthy" difference related to prevalence of obesity is portion size (unless everyone here wants to agree that obesity is about what foods you eat and not how much... which I'm not seeing), then what stops people from ordering multiple portions? Is there a difference with suggestive selling? In the U.S., that is common... example is when McDonald's offers a 2nd McRib sandwich for $1 with purchase of a McRib meal. Do they NOT do that in Japan?
I'm not sold on the type of food being the answer. Portion sizes just don't match for the enormous difference in obesity, especially when the alternative (multiple portions) are just as easily obtained.
I work for a company based in Japan. They send management-track Japanese employees to locations all around the world for years at a time. In my time here, I've seen dozens of Japanese employees come and go from the U.S. I can only think of 1 that was noticeably overweight. He was overweight when he came, and he was just as overweight when he left. As far as I can tell, all of the rest switched to eating American food for years - both portion sizes and ingredients - without becoming noticeably overweight. I would suggest there must be another difference with a bigger impact.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »I think there are two competing ideas going on.
1. Fat shaming is wrong and cruel no one can know where another person is in their life or how hard they're working to be the person they want to be.
2. Fat acceptance is dangerous. You get these "statistics" which say humans CAN be healthy at varying levels of being overweight, but the simple fact is the vast majority are not. If people are not eating healthy foods and exercising as part of their routines, they're not going to be healthy. The emphasis of such movements should always be for people to seek help first, be it a food logging app or a commitment with buddies to do the gym.
You can't believe #2 and #1 concurrently.
Because while you are spouting politically correct narratives, you are mentally judging fat people.
Nonsense. Humans mentally judge each other; it's built into us.
1. I see no reason to give someone crap for their choice to be overfat to the point of self-destruction.
2. It doesn't make it less dangerous to be overfat.
My issue is with #1. Did they choose?
People don't understand the power of habit, genetic makeup, medications and stress that combine to make weight loss or gain more complicated than a choice.
For years, I chose to lose weight and gained weight instead.
It was only after much prayer and solutions to the obstacles I faced was I able to lose weight.
So what I'm saying is that you think a lot less compassionately than you act, and I'm sure it comes across even if you are unaware of it.
You are right, there are many factors combined in trying to lose weight. The fact that you were ineffectively engaged in trying to lose weight didn't take away from the fact that you were still trying.
And that makes you different from a good chunk of fat acceptance advocates.
What you fail to realize is that there are people actively choosing to give up on losing weight and are actively choosing to be overfat.
If I'm not mistaken, that is the group of people the other poster was referring to.
Sometimes getting off the rollercoaster for a while to just love oneself is what is needed for some people's mental health. And better self love and peace leads to positive change.
As for me, I just refused to hate myself (God forgave me, so I'm not holding on to guilt), and I refused to stop trying. But you couldn't tell that from looking at me, so I'm sure people were busy judging, no matter that I was putting in more effort.
And advice from people like move less, eat more or calories in, calories out, do the hard work, or just do it, was the equivalent of a business person saying the key to business success is to make more sales than expenses. You see how trite it sounds to your ears when applied in other situations.
You're missing what I'm saying here.
I am not talking about people like you, who are still interested in pursuing a healthy weight at some point. I'm not talking about people who are aware they have issues with food and a problem with eating and just can't figure out how to address it.
I am not talking about the idea that people can't and shouldn't love and accept themselves.
There is a group of people who actively embrace out and out gluttony. There is just no other word for it. Posts from the celebrating binging in parking lots on fast food. This is behavior most people would feel embarrassed about, and they celebrate it as part of the life they lead.
They want to be protected as a special class, feeling they were just born this way, wanting to eat massive quantities of unhealthy food and have absolutely no self-awareness connecting their behavior to their size or idea that they might have emotional issues underlying the drive to keep eating.
This is a good chunk of the Fat Acceptance movement. Can you really support these people, committing slow suicide by food, not through ignorance, nor inability to conquer demons in spite of their best efforts, but through the active choice to plug their ears to and blind their eyes to everything telling them that it's unhealthy to be the way they choose to be.
I know I can't.
Just look at what Tararenee3913 said. She said it better than I could.
Have a nice day.
http://articles.latimes.com/1997/dec/26/news/mn-2357
Read this.
Especially the second page, about the Size Acceptance movement involvement. That's what the movement is about. That's the what the arm of the movement I'm talking about is. And it's not the fringe. They are making inroads. I posted proof above.
This isn't about accepting yourself and empowering yourself to make positive changes. This is something else entirely.
Have a nice day.
First, the girl went on her 1st diet at 2. By 9, the girl refused to go to the doctor after going more than 90 times. She obviously had some type of metabolic issue.
Very sad for the little girl.
1 -
seekingdaintiness wrote: »Fact - I am no healthier for losing weight because my weight NEVER made me unhealthy.
You are missing the point. I never had health issues related to my weight either, but that doesn't change the fact that being obese was a greater risk factor and the likelihood that I would have health problems if I continued to be obese, especially as I got older, was higher than now. That one specific person does not (or has not yet) suffered health problems doesn't change this, any more than the fact my mother never had any problems due to smoking means that smoking is just fine for health (she smoked from around age 18 to age 60).I have been on this stupid "weight loss journey" for social acceptance, nothing more, because people are viciously, hatefully cruel to fat people, have called me names you wouldn't believe, told me to die or kill myself, that I shouldn't exist, shouldn't do anything, shouldn't eat at all, shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion, and things I can't say here because they would all be "kittened" out. None of these things made me want to do anything more than lock myself in my bedroom and cry. Why do people think these things "encourage people to lose weight"?
I suspect they mostly don't, that to the extent they happened as you describe they did it for other reasons. (And I'd say hang out with better people, as I didn't get most of that when I was fat, thank goodness. I had self-esteem issues, that really started before I was fat, and body hatred, again even before I was fat, that I would agree were not at all helpful.)
You seem to think that most of us here are have not been fat ourselves, but I don't think that's true.
I am very much in favor of self-acceptance and body positivity and agree with many of the criticisms of the dieting industry by people like Laura Fraser, as I mentioned above. I don't think that's the same thing that people are talking about when critiquing fat acceptance.
As I keep saying, I think people are largely talking past each other because we have different ideas of what fat acceptance is (and because it is probably to some degree a big tent with both elements in it). If you think people here are defending fat shaming I think you have been misreading the discussion.2 -
Mandy_1982 wrote: »Acceptance of everyone, no matter their looks, is a nice thought. However, I think that by accepting obesity as healthy is kind of like saying "Go ahead, keep gaining weight. You'll be fine."
Accepting everyone does not mean accepting obesity as healthy.It should be "I accept the way you look and I'm not judging. Let's give you the tools and the support to get to a healthier weight."
If someone asked me for advice or I was a medical professional, yes -- and I think this happens.
To just anyone? No, none of my business, and why assume I am telling that person something she does not know. That's why I keep asking people what they mean by "it's not okay" or not accepting it.
Do you mean that we should acknowledge that obesity is a societal problem and that we should try to address it as a society? Sure, I agree -- and I'm not a critic of "eat less, move more." I also think education is good and that doctors have a role to play in educating and helping patients, as do RDs.
But beyond this? Not sure what it means. Lots of people live their lives in ways that I (if I thought about it) don't think are the best for them, but none of my business (and my knowledge of what's going on is obviously limited).
(I'm not arguing, but simply not sure what you are getting at beyond the sorts of things that I think are generally non controversial. So I'm asking.)
1 -
trigden1991 wrote: »seekingdaintiness wrote: »These threads are alwasy a kitten storm. yes I types kitten ahead of the censors. lol
Fact - I am no healthier for losing weight because my weight NEVER made me unhealthy. It's amazing how many people get super angry with me and want me to not believe my own personal experience, backed up with medical records. It's amazing how many doctors would get visibly angry when they would test me for all the "fat person" illnesses and couldn't find any. My real illnesses have been present since birth and it is very true that doctors have never had any interest in treating them because they were too busy looking for reasons to be mad at me for being fat.
I have been on this stupid "weight loss journey" for social acceptance, nothing more, because people are viciously, hatefully cruel to fat people, have called me names you wouldn't believe, told me to die or kill myself, that I shouldn't exist, shouldn't do anything, shouldn't eat at all, shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion, and things I can't say here because they would all be "kittened" out. None of these things made me want to do anything more than lock myself in my bedroom and cry. Why do people think these things "encourage people to lose weight"?
I suppose in a sense it is true - eventually they pushed me into an eating disorder because I hated myself. I have not lost weight healthily and am in much worse shape now than when I was fat.
You are 1 person. There are many that have a plethora of illnesses caused by or contributed to by their obesity.
Additionally, health is a snapshot. It's not usually stable over time. Obesity is like water. It's patient. It's effects show the longer it lasts. This poster may have been healthy when she was still obese, but chances are she would not have remained healthy.
One of the dark secrets of the Fat Acceptance movement is that they have to keep changing out their spokespeople. The prominent members age and succumb to the inevitable consequences of their life choices and get shuttled out of the limelight because they're no longer presenting the illusion of vibrant, healthy, sassy activists.8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoTQ3aOEz54
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions