Live together before getting married?
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NorthCascades wrote: »AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »This is exactly what I mean by "communication", you pretty much just elaborated for me, lol. There is a list of questions, something like "106 Questions to Ask Before Marriage" or something. I'm sure it's Googleable. I'll see if I can find it.
I think you're missing my point. There are more than 106 reasons people have got divorced. Folks have deal breakers they don't realize yet.
You're making it sound like people can just sit down and imagine every contingency and then ask each other if this one is ok, yes or not, and then they'll know whether they're compatible or not because they done communicated.
Every relationship I've ever been in has been much more fluid and ongoing than that. We've crossed bridges when we came to them because even the best map has some omissions.
Not every contingency, no. But I think you're over-complicating things. Marriages or relationships break down for a surprisingly small number of reasons, There are always exceptions to the rule, but I think if those big trip-ups (kids, disciplining them, money, work, religion, sex) can get addressed, agreed on, and/or resolved before marriage, there are not a lot of relationships that won't make it through rough patches. Call me optimistic, but it's what I believe.4 -
AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »Now imagine if they had gotten married and committed to staying together.
They would have gotten mad and figured out a solution, some equitable division of labor they could both live with.
Maybe. Maybe they would have got mad and broke their commitment. Isn't that what happens in the real world, most marriages end in divorce?
It's true that a large number of marriages end in divorce. But divorces rates started to rise at around the same time cohabitation started to become socially acceptable, and the status quo.
Or at least, "Maybe not", lol.
Just an idea to chew on. It's an interesting parallel, if nothing else.
Some correlation is to be expected - both relate to the reduction in the relevance of institutionalised religion, particularly Catholicism in the Western world. Catholicism said not to live together before marriage, and not to get divorced. As less people adhered to the teachings, people started living together, and more couples started divorcing rather than hacking it out in an unhappy marriage.
I think the correlation is that they're both results of the decline, rather than one being causative of the other.8 -
It depends on the couple, but in general in Western society today - Yes, living together is a good idea. You see all the behind the curtain activity and force people letting their guard down. Unrealistic expectations set by movies, parents, etc. do great harm as does the lack of open and honest communication.2
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Alatariel75 wrote: »AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »Now imagine if they had gotten married and committed to staying together.
They would have gotten mad and figured out a solution, some equitable division of labor they could both live with.
Maybe. Maybe they would have got mad and broke their commitment. Isn't that what happens in the real world, most marriages end in divorce?
It's true that a large number of marriages end in divorce. But divorces rates started to rise at around the same time cohabitation started to become socially acceptable, and the status quo.
Or at least, "Maybe not", lol.
Just an idea to chew on. It's an interesting parallel, if nothing else.
Some correlation is to be expected - both relate to the reduction in the relevance of institutionalised religion, particularly Catholicism in the Western world. Catholicism said not to live together before marriage, and not to get divorced. As less people adhered to the teachings, people started living together, and more couples started divorcing rather than hacking it out in an unhappy marriage.
I think the correlation is that they're both results of the decline, rather than one being causative of the other.
Great points!0 -
AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »Now imagine if they had gotten married and committed to staying together.
They would have gotten mad and figured out a solution, some equitable division of labor they could both live with.
Maybe. Maybe they would have got mad and broke their commitment. Isn't that what happens in the real world, most marriages end in divorce?
It's true that a large number of marriages end in divorce. But divorces rates started to rise at around the same time cohabitation started to become socially acceptable, and the status quo.
Or at least, "Maybe not", lol.
Just an idea to chew on. It's an interesting parallel, if nothing else.
Actually, it has a lot more to do with divorce laws changing in the 60s and 70s...up to that point, not only was divorce "taboo", but it was more difficult...no fault laws introduced in the 60s streamlined the divorce process and made it much easier...by the mid 70s most states had adopted no fault laws. Instances of divorce went from about 14% in the 50s to over 40% by the 70s.
This also coincides with and expanding economy and the rise of feminism and large numbers of women entering the workforce in the 60s.
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NorthCascades wrote: »
*Epic sigh*
Ok. OP asked for our opinions, and I offered mine. You immediately challenged them (which is totally fine), and I responded in kind. I don't feel the need to sink to being cute with sarcasm, so I'm not sure why you did feel that need. You have a nice day, though. (Not sarcastic.) I've said my piece and an argument is unnecessary, because I'm sure neither of us are going to change the other's mind. Cool it friend, we're just having a discussion, here.2 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »Fellas, don't sign up for this.
Then joint bank account.
Then monthly allowance.
Then before you realize 1/3rd of your monthly income goes to a mortgage.
And it's always "our" monthly income. Any slip of the tongue on our versus my results in funny conversations where you always apologize at the end looking into a cute face.
Take it from the learned one
A marriage needs is sense of humor. If its missing this, well, I will just leave it right there.1 -
If not living together, at least go on a trip alone together. Even if you're just staying in a hotel for a week or two in your town together, you need some time being isolated together. In my experience, if you can survive vacation without a fight, you can survive anything.1
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Cutaway_Collar wrote: »Fellas, don't sign up for this.
Then joint bank account.
Then monthly allowance.
Then before you realize 1/3rd of your monthly income goes to a mortgage.
And it's always "our" monthly income. Any slip of the tongue on our versus my results in funny conversations where you always apologize at the end looking into a cute face.
Take it from the learned one
This sounds more like forced slavery, than a relationship3 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »
It was written in humour, powerman. My quality of life is way better and everyone needs the infrastructure to start a family. I'd have turned 40 with no family but plenty of clothes and shoes.PowerMan40 wrote: »Cutaway_Collar wrote: »Fellas, don't sign up for this.
Then joint bank account.
Then monthly allowance.
Then before you realize 1/3rd of your monthly income goes to a mortgage.
And it's always "our" monthly income. Any slip of the tongue on our versus my results in funny conversations where you always apologize at the end looking into a cute face.
Take it from the learned one
This sounds more like forced slavery, than a relationship
The underlying message is be prepared to compromise and make sacrifices. It is a partnership. I am glad I settled down. I was just living without any clear direction.
Absolutely. Both parties bring something to the relationship. If one person sucks with money and the other is good with it, its super beneficial for both for them to put forth some leadership in the financial department.1 -
I don't think it's the be all end all but I personally wouldn't marry someone until I lived with them - and lived with them for a few years. Sure marriages fall apart all the time, whether you've lived together beforehand or not, but it's just one less unknown I'd like squared away before becoming legally committed to another person.
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Yes to living together0
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Cutaway_Collar wrote: »You can live together before marriage and stay where... in an apartment?? Your only contract is a lease for 12 months. And your worst fights on who does dishes and who drank more milk and who doesn't cook.
Did you know people who aren't married have children and stay together fairly often?1 -
Cutaway_Collar wrote: »On a serious response, I disagree with the OP.
Cohabitation does nothing. People still split and move on.
Women are earning more and more and the gender gap is catching up in the workforce. And also, divorce is higher after an investment is made and financial strain starts - a house most notably.
You can live together before marriage and stay where... in an apartment?? Your only contract is a lease for 12 months. And your worst fights on who does dishes and who drank more milk and who doesn't cook.
Biggest causes of divorce are mortgages, child care, fidelity and unemployment.... financial stress is high up there. Fin stress can be more pungent if there is a viable marriage contract. Cohabitation is pointless - don't be hoodwinked by fake online studies.
I do think that's an oversimplification, especially in this day and age. I mean of course a mortgage is a much larger commitment than a lease financially, but there are plenty of financial commitments in an apartment. Rent certainly isn't cheap, especially if you desire a certain level of sophistication from an apartment, plus you have monthly amenities, phone bills, car payments if you have a car together. One or both may be paying off 10's of thousands of dollars in student loans, whether it's joint or not, it's certainly a strain on both partners. You get to see spending habits, up close and personal. I think it's a pretty good financial indicator, because if my partner can't manage their finances while we're renting an apartment I certainly don't want to sign on to own a house with them.3 -
AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »*Epic sigh*
Holy crap! You flew off the handle because you made a point and I made a counter point!
We're talking about ideas. On a forum made for talking. You need thick enough skin to be able to deal with other people not agreeing with you sometimes. 6 -
We lived together for several months before we were married, but not until after we were engaged with a set date. There was already a certain level of commitment there, so it was more serious than just trying each other out. We clicked really well from day one. Living together ahead of time wasn't really necessary, but it could be very enlightening for some, I'm sure.
I know quite a few people who have moved in with boyfriends with no set expectations of where things were headed, and many, many of them just never progressed. Their guys just got the idea that things were good enough the way they were, so why take it to the next step?
I think that if you have an understanding that there is a definite future with clear plans for where your relationship is headed, then it's a good idea to test the waters ahead of time. But if you're just shacking up and winging it, I'm not sure it would be helpful. I guess that depends of the individuals involved.
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Lots of "old school" traditionalists think it's a bad idea.NorthCascades wrote: »Of course people should live together before they commit to living together for the rest of their lives.
But then I'm usually a "more info makes for better decisions" kind of guy.
I figure in another 50 years, it will be the norm.
It's the norm now.
And in 50 years, if the trend continues, formal and legally binding marriages will probably no longer exist in Western societies.
Marriages and traditional families in the West will exist only amongst folks who believe in and practice Abrahamic and Hindu religions.
Not everybody gets married for religious reasons. Marriage is a commitment between two people. Many people are naturally monogamous and drawn to lifelong partnerships on their own. People who get married and stay married because they think they "have to" are kind of sad to me. I don't think you should do it if it's not right for you. I'm not "trapped" by some kind of religious code. I made a formal commitment to my partner of my own free will. Marriage is not only symbolic of our personal bond, but it conveys legal rights and responsibilities as well. Plus, it's pretty awesome when you snag the right partner!
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Lots of "old school" traditionalists think it's a bad idea.NorthCascades wrote: »Of course people should live together before they commit to living together for the rest of their lives.
But then I'm usually a "more info makes for better decisions" kind of guy.
I figure in another 50 years, it will be the norm.
It's the norm now.
And in 50 years, if the trend continues, formal and legally binding marriages will probably no longer exist in Western societies.
Marriages and traditional families in the West will exist only amongst folks who believe in and practice Abrahamic and Hindu religions.
Not everybody gets married for religious reasons. Marriage is a commitment between two people. Many people are naturally monogamous and drawn to lifelong partnerships on their own. People who get married and stay married because they think they "have to" are kind of sad to me. I don't think you should do it if it's not right for you. I'm not "trapped" by some kind of religious code. I made a formal commitment to my partner of my own free will. Marriage is not only symbolic of our personal bond, but it conveys legal rights and responsibilities as well. Plus, it's pretty awesome when you snag the right partner!
I'm living testament to this - I am utterly devoid of any religious beliefs, and in fact would classify myself as an antitheist. However, I took great delight in marrying the love of my life and best friend.5 -
I disagree with it and not for religious reasons. I don't really understand why people would entangle their lives, housing, money, possibly children, with a person that they are not prepared to make a commitment to.4
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I'm for it. I lived with my guy prior to marriage, and we've been married 32 years. I wouldn't want to commit to a relationship for the rest of my life without having as much info as possible.1
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I disagree with it and not for religious reasons. I don't really understand why people would entangle their lives, housing, money, possibly children, with a person that they are not prepared to make a commitment to.
My counter argument to do is why would you commit to what is essentially supposed to be "forever" with someone if I don't know how we'll fare when our lives become entangled. Just because you aren't married to someone doesn't mean you aren't prepared to make a commitment.
Not something either of us will change the other person's mind about, but just the other side of the coin!2 -
I live with my family, but my boyfriend will stay over on the weekend sometimes. We wouldn't be living together fully though until after marriage. Thankfully though we talk a lot about anything and everything so even if we don't live together 24/7 I know a lot about him.0
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Live together. Sod marriage.3
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The problem is with the question. Why is anyone getting married in the first place? It's a prison.3
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Sure, you can, if you want.
Or, not... If you want.
You can choose to get married.
Or not.
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The problem is with the question. Why is anyone getting married in the first place? It's a prison.
Personally I think having offspring is more of a life sentence then the institution of marriage and I haven't done either (other than a common law shack up years ago). But since replicating oneself is all the rage, marriage - with its bonds, its structure and its built in legal protections for the more vulnerable parties - has its benefits.
Yikes. Having children is most definitely NOT "replicating oneself." Each person is unique and irreplaceable. The bonds formed between generations is a very good thing.1 -
I don't know. There are some habits and behaviors that aren't seen until 2 people live together. And what if they can't really tolerate it? Or there's no real compromise?AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »Nope. I'm totally old-school. Any potential benefit from living together beforehand can be just as easily achieved with proper communication and respect before the marriage. JMO.
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That's not always the case. Lots of people before marriage will "commit" to that person. The intention is totally there. But sometimes getting mad and always feeling that way in a marriage dissolves feelings regardless of how much 2 people try. And many times it's just small things and nothing major that causes this.thisonetimeatthegym wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »Nope. I'm totally old-school. Any potential benefit from living together beforehand can be just as easily achieved with proper communication and respect before the marriage. JMO.
Can you elaborate on this idea?
I think a lot of what matters between people is the sum total of small interactions. The stuff that's difficult to put into words. The positivity or negativity people show each other through body language, facial expression, etc.
Very often, people behave differently when they're alone than they do when they're not, for many reasons. I knew two people who were tidy and cleanly, but when they live together each of them thought the other wasn't doing their fair share, and then they both refused to do house work. They lived in a pig stie briefly and then split up.
A lot of the time, in hindsight it feels like something should have been obvious, but, before it happens, no one thinks to ask.
Now imagine if they had gotten married and committed to staying together.
They would have gotten mad and figured out a solution, some equitable division of labor they could both live with.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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