Cardio isn't for "fat burning".
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If you're losing, then keep doing it. If you're not, then you may need to drop 100-150 calories per day to see if that affects it.FoxyMars25 wrote: »Ok, I read through a lot of this and I am questioning myself. At the risk of sounding like a moron and inciting further frustration (I'm so sorry!), what I do is cardio/HITT/Strength training and I use it to create a larger deficit so I can eat more. I am 32 years old, female, 164 lbs, 5'6 1/2" and I have MFP set to .5 pound loss per week, with a sedentary lifestyle as I work a desk job. This gives me about 1610 calories per day that I can eat. However, I also workout 5-6 hours per week and my TDEE according to Scooby is around 2358 (which seems high). I have my Fitbit linked to MFP and whenever I workout/get steps, MFP gives me additional calories that I can eat. I know that the calorie burn is not very accurate however I do eat some of the calories back because honestly, 1604 calories per day is not enough to satisfy me....I am usually still super hungry despite eating enough protein and fiber and mostly home cooked food (not processed or pre-packaged). I do weigh all of my food on a food scale, with the only exception being when I go out to eat (which is not very often). According to my stats, I am allowed 1610 calories per day and my current average that I am actually eating is 1804, however with my exercise added in, I am currently netting an average of 1391 per day (again it could be higher because my fitbit/MFP may overestimate my calorie burn during exercise-however, I doubt it is overestimating enough to kill my entire deficit). I am doing this right because I am still in a deficit, correct? I am not eating 2358 per day (or even 2095 which is what my fitbit says is my actual daily average calorie burn)
I have only been back on MFP (after a few years) since the beginning of the month so I want to be sure I am on the right track. I also understand that if my 5-6 hours a week of exercise reduces, I will have to reduce the amount of food I eat.
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I've been very frustrated because I walk 2+ miles per day at a high rate of speed. Thanks for all this insight I never knew. I have been watching my calorie and I am always under but if you don't eat enough it won't let you complete your diary How can you change your calorie intake?2
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FoxyMars25 wrote: »Ok, I read through a lot of this and I am questioning myself. At the risk of sounding like a moron and inciting further frustration (I'm so sorry!), what I do is cardio/HITT/Strength training and I use it to create a larger deficit so I can eat more. I am 32 years old, female, 164 lbs, 5'6 1/2" and I have MFP set to .5 pound loss per week, with a sedentary lifestyle as I work a desk job. This gives me about 1610 calories per day that I can eat. However, I also workout 5-6 hours per week and my TDEE according to Scooby is around 2358 (which seems high). I have my Fitbit linked to MFP and whenever I workout/get steps, MFP gives me additional calories that I can eat. I know that the calorie burn is not very accurate however I do eat some of the calories back because honestly, 1604 calories per day is not enough to satisfy me....I am usually still super hungry despite eating enough protein and fiber and mostly home cooked food (not processed or pre-packaged). I do weigh all of my food on a food scale, with the only exception being when I go out to eat (which is not very often). According to my stats, I am allowed 1610 calories per day and my current average that I am actually eating is 1804, however with my exercise added in, I am currently netting an average of 1391 per day (again it could be higher because my fitbit/MFP may overestimate my calorie burn during exercise-however, I doubt it is overestimating enough to kill my entire deficit). I am doing this right because I am still in a deficit, correct? I am not eating 2358 per day (or even 2095 which is what my fitbit says is my actual daily average calorie burn)
I have only been back on MFP (after a few years) since the beginning of the month so I want to be sure I am on the right track. I also understand that if my 5-6 hours a week of exercise reduces, I will have to reduce the amount of food I eat.
To add to @ninerbuff - you may need to look at your meal timing with that much working out.
The cardio/HITT or just intense stuff burns a lot, and likely a lot of carbs, potentially leaving you with low blood sugar often, feeling hungry.
May need to eat better around your workouts.
Or, it could be you overproduce insulin when you eat carbs first or too much without protein & fat present or first - same effect, too much insulin causing low blood sugar causing hunger, when really you have eaten enough.
But I'm betting you aren't eating enough and workouts and daily activity level is suffering.
You don't mention which Fitbit model, which matters.
HR-based calorie burn for the HIIT and Strength will be inflated, as it's the wrong application for the formula - which is for steady-state aerobic. Opposite of your HR bouncing all over and being anaerobic.
Of course if this is for 45 min x 3 weekly with that much other workouts, and otherwise busy life - then the amount of inflated calories is minor in the big picture.
But if it's a significant portion of that 5-6 hrs - and all that exercise makes your daily life pretty tired and non-active.
Well, that inflated could be a big portion.
Weights should be logged on Fitbit no matter the device.
Because even by steps, lifting isn't getting enough credit. HIIT depends on what it is for steps, cardio may or may not be good estimate by steps.
I'd suggest don't guess from 5 levels, when you have a device trying to give you infinite levels, and daily depending on how that day is for activity.
Merely confirm it's as accurate as it can be, it'll still be 5 rough levels and you guessing, especially when those levels don't even include daily life, merely exercise.
The MFP initial eating level is with NO exercise expected or included. You sound like you should pretty much NEVER be eating that low, as Fitbit will always be allowing MFP to correct itself higher since you are more active.0 -
smelliefeet wrote: »There's a great Scientific American on this - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-exercise-paradox/
I subscribe to the magazine, and would highly recommend reading that article if you're interested in the science behind why exercise doesn't cause humans to lose weight - there's an evolutionary answer and it's really interesting!
If you don't want to subscribe to read the article you can find it here on Issuu.
I'll have to read it when I have time.
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smelliefeet wrote: »There's a great Scientific American on this - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-exercise-paradox/
I subscribe to the magazine, and would highly recommend reading that article if you're interested in the science behind why exercise doesn't cause humans to lose weight - there's an evolutionary answer and it's really interesting!
If you don't want to subscribe to read the article you can find it here on Issuu.
I'll have to read it when I have time.
Thank you so much for posting that link!!1 -
I've been very frustrated because I walk 2+ miles per day at a high rate of speed. Thanks for all this insight I never knew. I have been watching my calorie and I am always under but if you don't eat enough it won't let you complete your diary How can you change your calorie intake?
If you believe that you ade eating so little that MFP won't let you complete your diary, but you aren't seeing a loss, then you probably should start weighing your food to find out what you're really eating.2 -
HR-based calorie burn for the HIIT and Strength will be inflated, as it's the wrong application for the formula - which is for steady-state aerobic. Opposite of your HR bouncing all over and being anaerobic.
Of course if this is for 45 min x 3 weekly with that much other workouts, and otherwise busy life - then the amount of inflated calories is minor in the big picture.
But if it's a significant portion of that 5-6 hrs - and all that exercise makes your daily life pretty tired and non-active.
Well, that inflated could be a big portion.
Definitely this!
Most electronic heart rate monitors are dubious at best (fitbit lawsuit anyone?). I've always found it to be pretty distracting trying to worry about heart rate while exercising, so I've basically never done it.
With that being said I do think that the refractory heart rate (or recovery heart rate) research is pretty good and interesting. Even though it's not exactly the same thing.0 -
Cardio is done to improve cardio vascular fitness and burn calories. It will HELP with a calorie deficit and for some that do a lot of cardio, allow one to eat more versus someone at the same weight who does little or no cardio at all.
Like all other physical activity, GLYCOGEN will be the first thing burned before fat is even touched (ratio will vary more to fat if duration extended and/or intensity is lower) so the addage that one needs to do cardio to burn fat is a myth. You burn fat with a calorie deficit. Don't believe it? Do whatever cardio you want, but eat your TDEE. You'll more likely keep the same bodyfat percentage if you keep doing that.
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So should I switch to maintain weight thats the only spot trying to lose now.0 -
chrisfuentes2005 wrote: »Cardio is done to improve cardio vascular fitness and burn calories. It will HELP with a calorie deficit and for some that do a lot of cardio, allow one to eat more versus someone at the same weight who does little or no cardio at all.
Like all other physical activity, GLYCOGEN will be the first thing burned before fat is even touched (ratio will vary more to fat if duration extended and/or intensity is lower) so the addage that one needs to do cardio to burn fat is a myth. You burn fat with a calorie deficit. Don't believe it? Do whatever cardio you want, but eat your TDEE. You'll more likely keep the same bodyfat percentage if you keep doing that.
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So should I switch to maintain weight thats the only spot trying to lose now.
If you are trying to say you have a spot on body trying to lose fat - then yes you could switch to maintain weight option in MFP - and then do strength training - hard for you lifting.
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I have to agree with OP. I trained for and ran my first marathon several years ago without watching my calories and I ended up gaining weight. I was like, "What happened?" Obviously, I was inadvertently eating back all those burned calories and then some. By the next marathon, I had found MFP, and was logging my calories. I was able to easily maintain instead of gaining. (I was in maintenance so I wasn't trying to lose. But if I had been trying to lose, I'm confident that I would have, just based on meeting my calorie goals.)
Although of course, doing cardio will help you lose fat if it helps you get into a calorie deficit. Cardio without the deficit won't help for fat loss. I think that's what most people are thinking of when they talk about exercise helping you lose fat/weight. It does help, but only if it leads to a calorie deficit. Because calories are what really matter.1 -
I have to agree with OP. I trained for and ran my first marathon several years ago without watching my calories and I ended up gaining weight. I was like, "What happened?" Obviously, I was inadvertently eating back all those burned calories and then some. By the next marathon, I had found MFP, and was logging my calories. I was able to easily maintain instead of gaining. (I was in maintenance so I wasn't trying to lose. But if I had been trying to lose, I'm confident that I would have, just based on meeting my calorie goals.)
Although of course, doing cardio will help you lose fat if it helps you get into a calorie deficit. Cardio without the deficit won't help for fat loss. I think that's what most people are thinking of when they talk about exercise helping you lose fat/weight. It does help, but only if it leads to a calorie deficit. Because calories are what really matter.
Very good.
Also, some sites that track food, go by the method of estimating your planned/desired/expected exercise level for the week, and giving you a deficit from that TDEE.
Which means if you don't do the workouts - you don't lose.
And to your point, that is exactly why some articles/studies about exercise and free-living people have shown no weight loss, or gain actually.
Left to their own devices and skills (and in a study because of being overweight, probably not great skills), people don't create a deficit.
But most assume that for discussions on MFP - people aren't just out lying to themselves and others with their logging, for at least vast majority.1 -
smelliefeet wrote: »There's a great Scientific American on this - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-exercise-paradox/
I subscribe to the magazine, and would highly recommend reading that article if you're interested in the science behind why exercise doesn't cause humans to lose weight - there's an evolutionary answer and it's really interesting!
If you don't want to subscribe to read the article you can find it here on Issuu.
I'll have to read it when I have time.
Thank you so much for posting that link!!
Yes, that was a fascinating article, thank you!
I'm not sold on the idea of fixed energy expenditure though, and that the body generally can't increase its TDEE with exercise (aside from the article's acknowledged 200 calorie jump when going from sedentary to moderately active).
I can definitely see the gist of their theory being true, that there's a cap on how many calories from exercise a body will lets its TDEE increase. The figure they name sounds too low to me though. I think the cap is probably dynamic and depends on the body's available calories. If a female's body can regularly eat 2400 calories, for example, then it may allow the jump from a 1900 calorie TDEE to 2400 through 500 calories of exercise. While in a place where calories are harder to come by, that level of exercise may instead just result in the metabolic adaptation they described.
Then with the 300 participant study they did where they found couch potatoes burned 200 fewer cals than moderately active people, but that intensly active people burned the same as the moderately active...Maybe the intensely active people were that way because as a group they have a slower metabolism and need to exercise at that level to simply bring themselves up to the energy expenditure of the moderately active people?
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Cardio is done to improve cardio vascular fitness and burn calories. It will HELP with a calorie deficit and for some that do a lot of cardio, allow one to eat more versus someone at the same weight who does little or no cardio at all.
Like all other physical activity, GLYCOGEN will be the first thing burned before fat is even touched (ratio will vary more to fat if duration extended and/or intensity is lower) so the addage that one needs to do cardio to burn fat is a myth. You burn fat with a calorie deficit. Don't believe it? Do whatever cardio you want, but eat your TDEE. You'll more likely keep the same bodyfat percentage if you keep doing that.
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1) Cardio can help with a calorie deficit.
2) A calorie deficit burns fat.
3) Cardio doesn't burn fat. (Title) ??? I don't follow you conclusion.
I mean, sure, exercise isn't magical. If a person doesn't have a calorie deficit, they won't lose weight. And people need to understand that. But if someone holds their CI steady and (truly) burns 250 calories a day through exercise, then, in theory, wouldn't they lose half a pound a week?
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zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
How does it sound like BS? Read the OP again. It says exactly what you just stated. Allow me to quote from it for clarification:It will HELP with a calorie deficit and for some that do a lot of cardio, allow one to eat more versus someone at the same weight who does little or no cardio at all.
Now read your post again. See how they kinda sorta like say the exact same thing in slightly different words?2 -
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Okay, so do cardio and don't create a calorie deficit. How much fat was burned doing cardio?zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
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That's creating a calorie deficit then. Again, do all the cardio you want and eat to maintenance or above. How much excess fat is burned off by cardio then? The answer is none. That's why cardio isn't for fat burning. People who do cardio for weight loss STILL have to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight, but the deficit is DEPENDENT on the intake. That's why is usually stated as EAT LESS THAN YOU BURN.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »Cardio is done to improve cardio vascular fitness and burn calories. It will HELP with a calorie deficit and for some that do a lot of cardio, allow one to eat more versus someone at the same weight who does little or no cardio at all.
Like all other physical activity, GLYCOGEN will be the first thing burned before fat is even touched (ratio will vary more to fat if duration extended and/or intensity is lower) so the addage that one needs to do cardio to burn fat is a myth. You burn fat with a calorie deficit. Don't believe it? Do whatever cardio you want, but eat your TDEE. You'll more likely keep the same bodyfat percentage if you keep doing that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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1) Cardio can help with a calorie deficit.
2) A calorie deficit burns fat.
3) Cardio doesn't burn fat. (Title) ??? I don't follow you conclusion.
I mean, sure, exercise isn't magical. If a person doesn't have a calorie deficit, they won't lose weight. And people need to understand that. But if someone holds their CI steady and (truly) burns 250 calories a day through exercise, then, in theory, wouldn't they lose half a pound a week?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Okay, so do cardio and don't create a calorie deficit. How much fat was burned doing cardio?zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
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I guess what you really mean by your title is that "Cardio doesn't necessarily burn fat" and within your first post that "Cardio isn't necessary for burning fat." Both of those are true, but saying "Cardio isn't for fat burning" is not and could mislead people.1 -
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That's creating a calorie deficit then. Again, do all the cardio you want and eat to maintenance or above. How much excess fat is burned off by cardio then? The answer is none. That's why cardio isn't for fat burning. People who do cardio for weight loss STILL have to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight, but the deficit is DEPENDENT on the intake. That's why is usually stated as EAT LESS THAN YOU BURN.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »Cardio is done to improve cardio vascular fitness and burn calories. It will HELP with a calorie deficit and for some that do a lot of cardio, allow one to eat more versus someone at the same weight who does little or no cardio at all.
Like all other physical activity, GLYCOGEN will be the first thing burned before fat is even touched (ratio will vary more to fat if duration extended and/or intensity is lower) so the addage that one needs to do cardio to burn fat is a myth. You burn fat with a calorie deficit. Don't believe it? Do whatever cardio you want, but eat your TDEE. You'll more likely keep the same bodyfat percentage if you keep doing that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1) Cardio can help with a calorie deficit.
2) A calorie deficit burns fat.
3) Cardio doesn't burn fat. (Title) ??? I don't follow you conclusion.
I mean, sure, exercise isn't magical. If a person doesn't have a calorie deficit, they won't lose weight. And people need to understand that. But if someone holds their CI steady and (truly) burns 250 calories a day through exercise, then, in theory, wouldn't they lose half a pound a week?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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But if you increase the burn 250 calories, you can hold CI steady (eat what you had been) and still lose half a pound a week.
The deficit is dependent on the *relationship* between CI and CO.
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Except that there are lots and lots of people that believe that if they do cardio, they are burning fat that's significant and it's just not true. In my OP I stated that cardio burns calorie and glycogen first and foremost. To even TOUCH fat, moderated cardio sustained at about 20 minutes or more will burn a higher percentage of fat, but even then it's still not that significant.zachbonner_ wrote: »
Okay, so do cardio and don't create a calorie deficit. How much fat was burned doing cardio?zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
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you made the logical step in your original post
exercise --> create calorie deficit --> lose fat
you can't just come at me after I've proven why your statement is wrong and say "so don't create a calorie deficit and how much fat have your burned during exercise" because that isn't the argument that any logical person would make. Obviously if you have a rudimentary understanding of weight loss you need to create a calorie deficit to do lose weight.
Not to mention a lot of people don't think they can lose weight without any form of exercise accompanying a reduced intake.
So no you didn't prove my statement wrong. You just elaborated what I've already established in my OP.
Thanks for playing though.
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If cardio increases hunger, some people will take the option of reducing their cardio rather than feeding it. Some people will feel more active and start moving more when they do cardio. I have heard some people posting that cardio actually decreases their hunger. So, with these factors, its not so easy to flat out state that cardio helps, or does not help fat loss.
Its still a matter of eating less than you burn, no matter the amount of cardiovascular excersize you take.1 -
No the title is right. Ask any regular gym person on a cardio machine on why they are doing it and I'll bet that 90% will say they are doing it to burn fat and lose weight.Chunkahlunkah wrote: »
Okay, so do cardio and don't create a calorie deficit. How much fat was burned doing cardio?zachbonner_ wrote: »sounds like bs. cardio is good to create a calorie deficit or to eat a bit extra food/snack
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I guess what you really mean by your title is that "Cardio doesn't necessarily burn fat" and within your first post that "Cardio isn't necessary for burning fat." Both of those are true, but saying "Cardio isn't for fat burning" is not and could mislead people.
Argue it anyway you want, but within the community who are actually trying to LEARN how to lose weight correctly, giving them information that dispels what the fitness and diet industry has been teaching is a good thing.
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