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Fat Acceptance Movement
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snowflake930 wrote: »Fat Shaming--
It is a prejudice, same as any other prejudice. It shows ignorance and intolerance, same as any prejudice.
It is wrong, same as any other prejudice.
This! Well said. I have a feeling people who mock the overweight or obese would also mock people of other ethnicities or people with disabilities. They are just cruel, hateful people who think - for some bizarre reason - that they are better than anyone else and have the right to judge.3 -
snowflake930 wrote: »Fat Shaming--
It is a prejudice, same as any other prejudice. It shows ignorance and intolerance, same as any prejudice.
It is wrong, same as any other prejudice.
No, it's not the same as any other prejudice.
People have no control over their sex, height, nationality or race.
People do have control over whether they act like a sexist pig, or if they overeat. I just try to be constructive when I engage.10 -
snowflake930 wrote: »Fat Shaming--
It is a prejudice, same as any other prejudice. It shows ignorance and intolerance, same as any prejudice.
It is wrong, same as any other prejudice.
No, it's not the same as any other prejudice.
People have no control over their sex, height, nationality or race.
People do have control over whether they act like a sexist pig, or if they overeat. I just try to be constructive when I engage.
@Theo166 people who have lost control do not 'have control'. Yes with the right physical/mental help/understanding perhaps they often can regain control?
Shaming an obese person by telling them to just eat less without addressing the root causes of their obesity is only done by a very abusive person. Does this class of abuser even know they are an abuser?
I expect if these abusive people had 'control' of their abusive nature then they would not be as destructive when they engage obese people perhaps. What do you think?5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Fat Shaming--
It is a prejudice, same as any other prejudice. It shows ignorance and intolerance, same as any prejudice.
It is wrong, same as any other prejudice.
No, it's not the same as any other prejudice.
People have no control over their sex, height, nationality or race.
People do have control over whether they act like a sexist pig, or if they overeat. I just try to be constructive when I engage.
@Theo166 people who have lost control do not 'have control'. Yes with the right physical/mental help/understanding perhaps they often can regain control?
Shaming an obese person by telling them to just eat less without addressing the root causes of their obesity is only done by a very abusive person. Does this class of abuser even know they are an abuser?
I expect if these abusive people had 'control' of their abusive nature then they would not be as destructive when they engage obese people perhaps. What do you think?
One could say the same for abusive people. Do they have control over behavior or are you engaging in prejudiced behavior towards yet another class of the ever expanding victims.
This is fine exercise of argumentum absurdum in action.
It is perfectly normal and just to judge poor behavior - it isn't shaming, it isn't prejudiced.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Fat Shaming--
It is a prejudice, same as any other prejudice. It shows ignorance and intolerance, same as any prejudice.
It is wrong, same as any other prejudice.
No, it's not the same as any other prejudice.
People have no control over their sex, height, nationality or race.
People do have control over whether they act like a sexist pig, or if they overeat. I just try to be constructive when I engage.
@Theo166 people who have lost control do not 'have control'. Yes with the right physical/mental help/understanding perhaps they often can regain control?
Shaming an obese person by telling them to just eat less without addressing the root causes of their obesity is only done by a very abusive person. Does this class of abuser even know they are an abuser?
I expect if these abusive people had 'control' of their abusive nature then they would not be as destructive when they engage obese people perhaps. What do you think?
One could say the same for abusive people. Do they have control over behavior or are you engaging in prejudiced behavior towards yet another class of the ever expanding victims.
This is fine exercise of argumentum absurdum in action.
It is perfectly normal and just to judge poor behavior - it isn't shaming, it isn't prejudiced.
The desire to lord over others has been going on since recorded history but it still does not mean physically/mentally abusing others is "perfectly normal".2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »This view of obesity is very wrong from a medical point of view.
Next to no one sits down and Decides to be come Obese.
"Choice" can be hidden from a person through physical and mental abuse over time.
Only counting calories can not fix physical and mental health under lying obesity causes but it can be a good stop gap measure.
That's like saying that the person having an accident while doing 110 mph on the highway didn't "choose" to have an accident. Of course they did, by engaging in ridiculous and dangerous behavior.
We as adults choose our behaviors. We choose what to stuff into our mouths. Someone who's 100 pounds overweight who continues to eat ridiculous amounts of food has absolutely chosen obesity.
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xmichaelyx wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »This view of obesity is very wrong from a medical point of view.
Next to no one sits down and Decides to be come Obese.
"Choice" can be hidden from a person through physical and mental abuse over time.
Only counting calories can not fix physical and mental health under lying obesity causes but it can be a good stop gap measure.
That's like saying that the person having an accident while doing 110 mph on the highway didn't "choose" to have an accident. Of course they did, by engaging in ridiculous and dangerous behavior.
We as adults choose our behaviors. We choose what to stuff into our mouths. Someone who's 100 pounds overweight who continues to eat ridiculous amounts of food has absolutely chosen obesity.
One may teach man is a free moral agent but at 66 I am seeing more and more people who due to the past fail to understand how to best chose in many of life's decision or that they even have choices. We are starting to understand reversing serious illnesses can be very limited it the patient is controlled at any level by a death wish. It was my will to live to be 110 that reversed my rush to a premature death due to my WOE. The will to live can be very weak for humans that have been physically/mentally abuse all of their lives.
While CICO may be 2% of the obesity issue we as a world must start to address the other 98% of obesity issues to make a dent. Sadly we know the race against obesity is being loss and at the rate of the current trend it is only going to get worse. Those who focus on the 2% and miss the 98% of obesity factors can expect limited health until death.
Being only fat does not lead to premature death actually.
Mind sets are killing us faster than junk food. Abusers of other humans can be a real factor in developing self destructive mindsets in others. There is no obesity that is without physical/mental components.2 -
To me, encouraging and promoting "fatness" is no different from encouraging and promoting anorexia. Both are unhealthy and dangerous.6
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »snowflake930 wrote: »Fat Shaming--
It is a prejudice, same as any other prejudice. It shows ignorance and intolerance, same as any prejudice.
It is wrong, same as any other prejudice.
No, it's not the same as any other prejudice.
People have no control over their sex, height, nationality or race.
People do have control over whether they act like a sexist pig, or if they overeat. I just try to be constructive when I engage.
@Theo166 people who have lost control do not 'have control'. Yes with the right physical/mental help/understanding perhaps they often can regain control?
Shaming an obese person by telling them to just eat less without addressing the root causes of their obesity is only done by a very abusive person. Does this class of abuser even know they are an abuser?
I expect if these abusive people had 'control' of their abusive nature then they would not be as destructive when they engage obese people perhaps. What do you think?
One could say the same for abusive people. Do they have control over behavior or are you engaging in prejudiced behavior towards yet another class of the ever expanding victims.
This is fine exercise of argumentum absurdum in action.
It is perfectly normal and just to judge poor behavior - it isn't shaming, it isn't prejudiced.
The desire to lord over others has been going on since recorded history but it still does not mean physically/mentally abusing others is "perfectly normal".
Per Websters:
Abuse
1
: a corrupt practice or custom the buying of votes and other election abuses
2
: improper or excessive use or treatment : misuse drug abuse
3
: language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily verbal abuse a term of abuse
4
: physical maltreatment child abuse sexual abuse
5
obsolete : a deceitful act : deception
The root of your dilemma is not one of judgement, but an ever expanding definition of abuse.
Political correctness is simply another version of lording over others....only without a logical or reproducible foundation.0 -
I did not choose for my endocrine system to fail. Neither did I choose the doctors and endocrinologists I visited through the NHS, who did not join the dots from my description of my many interrelated symptoms to discover the underlying problems causing my health issues. From one poster above, I now know, I was being treated by someone who assumes I was "Lying" about my issues and food consumption. Is it in anyone's interests to lie when seeking help to regaining their health? I knew it was not. Or that was my mentality. Nor does it help for someone who knows their body is not conforming to what is supposed to be the "normal", against which we are all held to be decried as some being without the senses, they should have been born with.
There are many issues like Cushing's, believed to be as rare as Lupus and other autoimmune problems which distort the ways our bodies behave. Many of these poor oft derided person are failed by the systems which are supposed to support them. Here and in many other countries t3 levels are not permitted to be tested because, all bodies have the ability to make t3 and naturally it always gets into the cells. The medical profession are convinced there can't be any problem in these areas but this opens people up to abuse even from those who are supposed to help them. Low t3, underpins many mental health issues, diabetes, heart disease, cholesterol problems, reproductive health, breathing problems such as asthma to bronchitis and much, much more, even addiction or anorexia and other digestive issues. Left unrecognised, long enough these problems will cause people to require operations, may be long term hospitalisation, to leave the workforce, to live in isolation and become dependant on the rest of society. Returning them to an active, productive member of society is not within the remit of many in the medical profession. IMV and Experience.
Please carry on bashing those who are disadvantaged, its always been the way of the strong.1 -
To each their own..... I was foolish in my 30s and smoked but thankfully quit because I pursued a healthier objective. I got fat and carried weight and joined mfp to pursue a healthier objective. I neither praise nor vilify the FAM. It is their lives to do what they wish and if so, pursue a healthier objective.3
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Coming from a fat person:
I think that their si no shame in loving your body when you are at your biggest. If you don't love yourself when you achieve the weight loss you want you will still not love yourself. No number on a scale can bring happiness where it matters. Self esteem and self confidence is a crucial battle when dealing with significant weight loss.
Those of you that say "Well fat people cant have healthy numbers" or "they are lying with there test results" or "they are a disgrace" etc (all the wonderful fat shaming) need to have a nasty reality check. Some people LIKE ME have had perfect numbers when it comes to my heart, cholesterol, thyroid, sugar, A1C, estrogen, and the whole gambit ALL MY LIFE. When it was found out that I have a steroidal reaction to certain foods I was able to start cutting those foods out and I am finally able to lose weight.
You NEVER KNOW where someone is on their journey and who are we to judge. Image if "Skinny Shaming" got the attention that "Fat Shaming" does. Bullying and Harassment know no size, age, or gender. Most of us are aware of how big we are and most of us want to change it but struggle to get the help we need because of how we are treated by the medical community.
I wish some fat shaming people could live the life of an obese person for week, heck a month. No being obese isn't healthy and it can cause problems but that doesn't mean we need some butt faced miscreants making us feel two inches tall because of it.2 -
There seems to be a great deal of strawmen constructed in this thread.
I'm not seeing where anyone is condoning abusive behavior.
What I am seeing is a rational conclusion that being obese is not healthy, that you should always love yourself regardless of aesthetics, but you should love yourself enough to stay healthy.13 -
I did not choose for my endocrine system to fail. Neither did I choose the doctors and endocrinologists I visited through the NHS, who did not join the dots from my description of my many interrelated symptoms to discover the underlying problems causing my health issues. From one poster above, I now know, I was being treated by someone who assumes I was "Lying" about my issues and food consumption. Is it in anyone's interests to lie when seeking help to regaining their health? I knew it was not. Or that was my mentality. Nor does it help for someone who knows their body is not conforming to what is supposed to be the "normal", against which we are all held to be decried as some being without the senses, they should have been born with.
There are many issues like Cushing's, believed to be as rare as Lupus and other autoimmune problems which distort the ways our bodies behave. Many of these poor oft derided person are failed by the systems which are supposed to support them. Here and in many other countries t3 levels are not permitted to be tested because, all bodies have the ability to make t3 and naturally it always gets into the cells. The medical profession are convinced there can't be any problem in these areas but this opens people up to abuse even from those who are supposed to help them. Low t3, underpins many mental health issues, diabetes, heart disease, cholesterol problems, reproductive health, breathing problems such as asthma to bronchitis and much, much more, even addiction or anorexia and other digestive issues. Left unrecognised, long enough these problems will cause people to require operations, may be long term hospitalisation, to leave the workforce, to live in isolation and become dependant on the rest of society. Returning them to an active, productive member of society is not within the remit of many in the medical profession. IMV and Experience.
Please carry on bashing those who are disadvantaged, its always been the way of the strong.
To be fair, most of the time (though sometimes not) people are not referring to those who have medical problems such as yours. There is a difference between having a medical condition and otherwise healthy people using "body acceptance" as an excuse to remain overweight. Many people don't add that fine print to their comments because I guess it *should* just go without saying, but perhaps not adding that exception is what makes people who are in your position feel like they are being "bashed" for their weight. I suppose the same goes for those who are extremely skinny due to medical problems.
All that being said health ( in my opinion) is more important than physical appearance. And there are people who are very overweight for reasons such as you mention who are still doing their best to remain physically active (when sheer exhaustion can be overcome) and eat well. I understand how angry it must make someone who falls into the medically overweight or obese category to see a discussion such as this. My brother, who always has been skinny as a rail is now bordering on obesity because of both medical problems as well as medications which have weight gain as a side effect. I don't think there is anything he can do due to his specific health problems. As you mention doctors, he has had his share of unhelpful doctors. I don't know if there is anyway you can overcome your medical problem but I certainly wish you the best in health and happiness.3 -
I think it's fine for an individual to think what ever they want. I just don't want anyone dictating to me what I should think. Is being obese good for a human? No. Should we shame, or blame, or bully, or make fun of obese people. Heck no.
I don't hate obese people I just hate myself when I'm obese.3 -
I'm just wondering how you can tell, by just looking at a person why they are as they are, health conditions do not shout out they are health conditionas opposed to someone perpetually piggin out, the people can look very similar. People who presume to know why a person is the way they are are doing themselves and society a disservice, only the person themselves knows the things they are doing to achieve their own good health. If it were possible to identify all the issues which can cause health problems in each and every person we would live in a very different world we'd need fewer doctors for starters.
Low t3 underpins my, salicylate sensitivity, Histamine intolerance, chemical sensitivity, dairy intolerance not lactose but the common kind, casein and paraben, the preservative in food, medication and cleaning products problems. In many situations Low t3 prevents the body naturally being able to make the enzymes etc it should do. Naturally those giving the scathing glances and hostile comments could see all this going on in me and others like me, NOT.
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Some people also have legitimate medical contributions to their anger issue, which may result in abusing their family members.
Be it weight or anger management, the number of people with a legitimate medical cause is quite small.5 -
I'm just wondering how you can tell, by just looking at a person why they are as they are, health conditions do not shout out they are health conditionas opposed to someone perpetually piggin out, the people can look very similar. People who presume to know why a person is the way they are are doing themselves and society a disservice, only the person themselves knows the things they are doing to achieve their own good health. If it were possible to identify all the issues which can cause health problems in each and every person we would live in a very different world we'd need fewer doctors for starters.
Low t3 underpins my, salicylate sensitivity, Histamine intolerance, chemical sensitivity, dairy intolerance not lactose but the common kind, casein and paraben, the preservative in food, medication and cleaning products problems. In many situations Low t3 prevents the body naturally being able to make the enzymes etc it should do. Naturally those giving the scathing glances and hostile comments could see all this going on in me and others like me, NOT.
No obviously unless a person has some thing that is easily seen no one can know. And while the two can look similar a little observation shows the difference. For example, I have a friend who has been overweight for as long as I have known her in the past 25+ years. Even if you didn't know her well but were "friends" on Facebook you would easily see the photos she posts of what she eats which are usually mixed in with all of her other posts about wanting to lose weight. Well when someone is obviously shoving down large quantities of food and saying, "Fat girl gonna stay fat today!" Or "The diet can wait until tomorrow!" That is very different from another friend I have who had her thyroid removed and is always overweight no matter how she eats reasonable quantities of food and also gets quite a bit of physical activity. When it come to perfect strangers you can't possibly know, and I don't assume one side of this would ever apply to all overweight people. You can't judge a person if you don't know what is behind their weight problem.
HOWEVER! There is a fat acceptance movement that is not centered around the medically over weight or obese learning to accept or love themselves in the face of what their illness has brought on, it is centered around being very over weight or even obese just because "big is beautiful" and that it should just be accepted or even a goal for others. Some of these people even go so far as to shun their overweight friends for "selling out" when they make an effort to change their lifestyle. The difference is there for anyone who listens and observes.5 -
I chose to put my thoughts forcibly because I do not believe the number of persons with legitimate medical issues is that small, the numbers who are failed by the system is larger because their issues go undiagnosed by the refusal to test for t3 particularly.
Each person is permitted to take whichever approach to their life they like, the friend who posts the large meals or embraces being heavy, no diet today, is entitled to. I wanted to speak up for the numbers who would like to be different but are not in a position to discover all the triggers there are which can underpin their poor health. The ones who get stuck at, the only reason not to be "normal" is because you eat too much even though they count the calories and weigh everything properly, some even use the quick add calories so this system will accept their food diary without saying, you are undereating. Anyone who passes on a friendship because they choose to change their lives was no friend in the first place. I'm tempted to ask if the friend referred to has a very swollen neck, this could indicate she too has some underlying problem which she does not have the support to counteract.
I stand by my statement, those who condemn by comment and glances do so without knowing the health status of the object of their distain.
I'm working on regaining my health, weight is no longer an issue, I was unable to take my daughter to hospital for physio on her collarbone/arm because of other persons laundry and cleaning residues. I'd park on the top level of the carpark, in an off sea breeze and hope but I still had problems so had to give up. Her husband had to take time off work to do it instead.
I have better things to do than add any more to this thread so I'm out of here. Thank you. I'm still not angry, simply being firm, hope some of you are enlightened.2
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