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Fat Acceptance Movement
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Doesn't the JLaw thing potentially make things worse? If she's considered fat, then what would people have to do just to get to the point that they aren't fat?4
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richardgavel wrote: »Doesn't the JLaw thing potentially make things worse? If she's considered fat, then what would people have to do just to get to the point that they aren't fat?
Lots and lots of drugs and/or actually, ya' know, diet and exercise?2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »richardgavel wrote: »Doesn't the JLaw thing potentially make things worse? If she's considered fat, then what would people have to do just to get to the point that they aren't fat?
Lots and lots of drugs and/or actually, ya' know, diet and exercise?
But you know, the truth is a *kitten*.1 -
There's a growing element of western society that things that feelings should trump logic and science. I feel this way therefore I am this way. I feel this, therefore that should happen. When that sort of backwards thinking takes hold you never know what is going to happen.richardgavel wrote: »Doesn't the JLaw thing potentially make things worse? If she's considered fat, then what would people have to do just to get to the point that they aren't fat?
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Just watched several episodes of "My 600-lb Life"
What I see is an almost complete lack of nutrition knowledge by the families, every 'patient' is surrounded by enablers. They all seem to be afraid of making the 'subject' mad. One mom was sneaking her daughter fast food because she was afraid her 600lb girl was going to starve to death.
I was also surprised at the lack of nutrition advice pushed by the show. In 5 episodes I've seen just one Nutritionist do a house call to educate the woman and her family, but that didn't even happen until 11 months into the journey and was a one-off visit. Most of them were eating fast food on a daily basis, with no calorie counting.
Just like with the Biggest Loser show, this genre is devoid of including practical advice to help the average viewer.3 -
Just watched several episodes of "My 600-lb Life"
What I see is an almost complete lack of nutrition knowledge by the families, every 'patient' is surrounded by enablers. They all seem to be afraid of making the 'subject' mad. One mom was sneaking her daughter fast food because she was afraid her 600lb girl was going to starve to death.
I was also surprised at the lack of nutrition advice pushed by the show. In 5 episodes I've seen just one Nutritionist do a house call to educate the woman and her family, but that didn't even happen until 11 months into the journey and was a one-off visit. Most of them were eating fast food on a daily basis, with no calorie counting.
Just like with the Biggest Loser show, this genre is devoid of including practical advice to help the average viewer.
Even the nutrition advice from Dr. Nowzaradan is pretty poor. It's good for those folks who are morbidly obese, but then I've seen him do the same diet plan with the folks who had much less to lose, e.g. folks on the "Skin Tight" show who needed to lose 30-40 lbs. It's always a 1200 calorie, high protein, low carb diet. It seems these people go from binging to hyper restrictive crash diets. They never learn anything in between. I was watching the latest Skin Tight last night and the lady was crushed she only lost 30 lbs in a month when she had a 42 lbs goal. This was after gaining 40 lbs in 2 months when he fixed her lap band so she could eat properly again.1 -
Just watched several episodes of "My 600-lb Life"
What I see is an almost complete lack of nutrition knowledge by the families, every 'patient' is surrounded by enablers. They all seem to be afraid of making the 'subject' mad. One mom was sneaking her daughter fast food because she was afraid her 600lb girl was going to starve to death.
I was also surprised at the lack of nutrition advice pushed by the show. In 5 episodes I've seen just one Nutritionist do a house call to educate the woman and her family, but that didn't even happen until 11 months into the journey and was a one-off visit. Most of them were eating fast food on a daily basis, with no calorie counting.
Just like with the Biggest Loser show, this genre is devoid of including practical advice to help the average viewer.
That's because those shows aren't designed to educate. They are there to make the "everyman" feel better about their 250 lbs. fatbody. It's "feel better" entertainment; nothing more.6 -
Thumbs up to everyone here for having s rational and nuanced conversation on this topic. I shouldn't be surprised because the level of discourse here is generally pretty high, but FA can be a real lightning rod.
My understanding of FA, and I do consider myself in board with it, is that you shouldn't continually punish yourself for being fat, or put things that are the spice of life (like wearing what you want, going out dancing, hiking, falling in love and all the other things that fat people feel dumb doing because of social messaging) off until you feel like you're thin enough--but live a good life in the body you have now.
That doesn't mean never ever lose weight or be reckless about food choices. Those healthy and normal things can part of FA too. It's just better to do them coming from a place of love than a place or self-loathing. It turns out it's hard to take good care of yourself if you hate yourself.
FA isn't the same as normalizing being overweight, it's a coping mechanism that allows a person to endure being their own skin. If someone tells you what you should or shouldn't do with your body, be it losing weight or whatever, that's their personal insecurity issues coming through and has nothing to do with FA. It's similar to when people with their own body issues and fears bandy about the term "morbidly obese" with that tone (you know what I'm talking about!). It says more about that person's inner life than anything else--and with all the feelings mixed into things like body image and social expectations, the us-against-them mentality can poison the well.
Anyhow. Thanks for being great, MFP. "Just don't be a jerk" covers most of what I said, though I would add "even to yourself".
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I consider this movement dangerous, as the pro-ana, they need some help and they are crying out for help....
That being said I do not bully or being disrespectful to obese people... why do people here are associating the two?3 -
Just watched several episodes of "My 600-lb Life"
What I see is an almost complete lack of nutrition knowledge by the families, every 'patient' is surrounded by enablers. They all seem to be afraid of making the 'subject' mad. One mom was sneaking her daughter fast food because she was afraid her 600lb girl was going to starve to death.
I was also surprised at the lack of nutrition advice pushed by the show. In 5 episodes I've seen just one Nutritionist do a house call to educate the woman and her family, but that didn't even happen until 11 months into the journey and was a one-off visit. Most of them were eating fast food on a daily basis, with no calorie counting.
Just like with the Biggest Loser show, this genre is devoid of including practical advice to help the average viewer.
I believe in real life, nutrition counseling is if not required, strongly encouraged with fat removal/bariatric surgery. However the counseling doesn't make as good TV (sarcasm) as a 600 pound person eating 4 bags of food from a fast food place or struggling to get off the couch.
Unfortunately nobody wants to be educated anymore. I remember when The Learning Channel started, they actually had programing that would educate as opposed to shows featuring trashy people buying a dress, talking about their big fat fabulous life, while slowly killing themselves, and a guy with who knows how many wives, etc.
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Having always been fat, I can unapologetically say that FA is disgusting because it promotes slow suicide.
No, you should not love your body at every size. You should love your friends and family. You should love them enough to fight for them, to be there as long as possible for them. You should always actively be taking good care of your body. You wouldn't tell a heroine/drug addict to love their substance, would you? Why would you tell someone with an eating disorder that they're normal?!
Do you ever see 90 year old 600lb people?
And another thing. I've been made fun of my entire life. And I still choose freedom of speech, jokes, and ridicule to a dystopian political correct Orwellian world. Now I can laugh at the joke's thrown at me. Offense is taken not given.
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metalmeow1 wrote: »Having always been fat, I can unapologetically say that FA is disgusting because it promotes slow suicide.
No, you should not love your body at every size. You should love your friends and family. You should love them enough to fight for them, to be there as long as possible for them. You should always actively be taking good care of your body. You wouldn't tell a heroine/drug addict to love their substance, would you? Why would you tell someone with an eating disorder that they're normal?!
Do you ever see 90 year old 600lb people?
And another thing. I've been made fun of my entire life. And I still choose freedom of speech, jokes, and ridicule to a dystopian political correct Orwellian world. Now I can laugh at the joke's thrown at me. Offense is taken not given.
You just won this thread.
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The body positivity movement was one of the major support systems that first REALLY helped me find my way to the road to recovery when I developed bulimia in college. I realized then that I needed to stop trying to lose weight and instead focus on me and my health, and especially mental health. At that time the motivation to lose weight was driven by hate. People often fail to realize there are UNHEALTHY ways to lose weight too. For me, losing weight unhealthily is more damaging and worse than being fat and eating a healthy diet and being active.
FYI: As an adult, I was never bullied or fat shamed for my weight. And most days I had a good dose of self confidence. My drive to lose weight wasn't to be healthy. And any REAL FA or body positivitist knows that loving yourself regardless of your size also means loving yourself to want to live a healthier lifestyle. It's a reminder that being healthy and being a "normal weight" are not always the same5 -
I think the fat acceptance movement does have some good points. There is a lot of size-based discrimination in our culture. I've known people who were really sick but who couldn't get medical care because, according to their doctors, it wasn't even worth testing them for medical diseases as long as they were fat. It's troubling, especially considering how some serious medical conditions can actually cause obesity (think hypothyroidism). Just like people with any other medical condition, fat people should be treated like human beings and not judged by people who lack the full story. For example, a lot of times it's assumed that all fat people simply struggle with self-control when the fact is that some have medical conditions, medications, and other obstacles preventing them from looking their best. Having people assume you're eating trash and throwing your life away when you're actually trying and just not there yet can be really disheartening.
That said, fat acceptance isn't just about treating fat people with more dignity and respect than our culture presently does. It often comes with the idea that there is no correlation whatsoever between excess weight and a decline in health. Like others have said, watching "My 600 Pound Life" makes it pretty obvious that that isn't the case. There's a wide (no pun intended) spectrum between being thin and being 600 pounds, but being fat is generally a warning sign that one's body is out of balance.
Additionally, fat positivity sometimes comes with the idea that all sizes are objectively attractive. I don't mind the idea that anyone/anything can be beautiful, but when I'm being called a fatphobic bigot for finding slimmer people more attractive than people above a certain size, I get kind of irritated. What happened to the idea that we can't help what we're attracted to?
I think the fat acceptance movement is filling a gap that nothing else is filling right now, unfortunately. There are people who go on diets, do so desperately and unhealthily, and need to be told that being large isn't worth destroying themselves over. That said, I've seen too many people decide that "whelp; dieting was hard the first time I tried it, so that must be my body's way of saying it likes being obese." I've also seen people equate their partners still finding them attractive at an obese size with obesity being non-problematic.
I've also noticed that a lot of fat people seem to have some degree of mental illness/emotional trouble keeping them in a cycle of unhealthy eating. Mental illness shouldn't be stigmatized, and people should be free to choose whether or not to seek treatment/how much treatment to seek/etc. That all being said, I think overeating is a problematic behavior just like drinking is a problematic behavior. Those types of actions negatively impact other people and put the person doing them's life at risk. Isn't there a way to destigmatize mental health conditions without saying "fat is healthy" or "there's literally nothing dangerous about being so large you can barely walk?" Isn't there a way to let people make the choices that make sense for them without saying "there's literally no health difference between having a salad for lunch and having four cheeseburgers?"
There are probably more reasonable fat-positive folks than the ones I've run into, but I wouldn't know.
*Sigh.* I get that some of my friends would find me extremely fat-phobic for writing this, but it's how I feel.1 -
antinomiancelestial wrote: »I've also noticed that a lot of fat people seem to have some degree of mental illness/emotional trouble keeping them in a cycle of unhealthy eating. Mental illness shouldn't be stigmatized, and people should be free to choose whether or not to seek treatment/how much treatment to seek/etc. That all being said, I think overeating is a problematic behavior just like drinking is a problematic behavior. Those types of actions negatively impact other people and put the person doing them's life at risk. Isn't there a way to destigmatize mental health conditions without saying "fat is healthy" or "there's literally nothing dangerous about being so large you can barely walk?" Isn't there a way to let people make the choices that make sense for them without saying "there's literally no health difference between having a salad for lunch and having four
This. I don't like the fat acceptance movement at all, because mental health is seriously at play. I know because I suffer from it myself. My binging is anxiety related. If you are accepting fat as it is, you are denying yourself the mental care that you deserve!3 -
GemstoneofHeart wrote: »This. I don't like the fat acceptance movement at all, because mental health is seriously at play. I know because I suffer from it myself. My binging is anxiety related. If you are accepting fat as it is, you are denying yourself the mental care that you deserve!
Except for a lot of people the feelings of worthlessness associated with the stigmas against fat and the biases against fat people will simply feed mental illness problems instead of encouraging people to get help.4 -
antinomiancelestial wrote: »I think the fat acceptance movement does have some good points. There is a lot of size-based discrimination in our culture. I've known people who were really sick but who couldn't get medical care because, according to their doctors, it wasn't even worth testing them for medical diseases as long as they were fat. It's troubling, especially considering how some serious medical conditions can actually cause obesity (think hypothyroidism). Just like people with any other medical condition, fat people should be treated like human beings and not judged by people who lack the full story. For example, a lot of times it's assumed that all fat people simply struggle with self-control when the fact is that some have medical conditions, medications, and other obstacles preventing them from looking their best. Having people assume you're eating trash and throwing your life away when you're actually trying and just not there yet can be really disheartening.
That said, fat acceptance isn't just about treating fat people with more dignity and respect than our culture presently does. It often comes with the idea that there is no correlation whatsoever between excess weight and a decline in health. Like others have said, watching "My 600 Pound Life" makes it pretty obvious that that isn't the case. There's a wide (no pun intended) spectrum between being thin and being 600 pounds, but being fat is generally a warning sign that one's body is out of balance.
Additionally, fat positivity sometimes comes with the idea that all sizes are objectively attractive. I don't mind the idea that anyone/anything can be beautiful, but when I'm being called a fatphobic bigot for finding slimmer people more attractive than people above a certain size, I get kind of irritated. What happened to the idea that we can't help what we're attracted to?
I think the fat acceptance movement is filling a gap that nothing else is filling right now, unfortunately. There are people who go on diets, do so desperately and unhealthily, and need to be told that being large isn't worth destroying themselves over. That said, I've seen too many people decide that "whelp; dieting was hard the first time I tried it, so that must be my body's way of saying it likes being obese." I've also seen people equate their partners still finding them attractive at an obese size with obesity being non-problematic.
I've also noticed that a lot of fat people seem to have some degree of mental illness/emotional trouble keeping them in a cycle of unhealthy eating. Mental illness shouldn't be stigmatized, and people should be free to choose whether or not to seek treatment/how much treatment to seek/etc. That all being said, I think overeating is a problematic behavior just like drinking is a problematic behavior. Those types of actions negatively impact other people and put the person doing them's life at risk. Isn't there a way to destigmatize mental health conditions without saying "fat is healthy" or "there's literally nothing dangerous about being so large you can barely walk?" Isn't there a way to let people make the choices that make sense for them without saying "there's literally no health difference between having a salad for lunch and having four cheeseburgers?"
There are probably more reasonable fat-positive folks than the ones I've run into, but I wouldn't know.
*Sigh.* I get that some of my friends would find me extremely fat-phobic for writing this, but it's how I feel.
There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding metabolic diseases and the extent of their impact. Hypothyroidism can cause ~10 lbs of weight increase due to increased cellular absorption (water weight) during periods of hormonal shift but does not cause obesity. From clinical observation T3/T4 impacts BMR/REE by ~5%.
There is an equal amount of evidence suggesting that the increase in hypothyroidism and other metabolic diseases is due to obesity. Hormones are free cycling and it is difficult if not impossible for a body to maintain balance if glands are overworked.
The solution to this issue is to address the symptoms and root cause. The problem with these acceptance movements is that they attempt to normalize that which is abnormal.2 -
I think on the level of self acceptance and loving who you are - it's a commendable movement. I think it's important to treat everyone with the same respect and love we all expect. I also think it's important to not shame anyone for their size. However, I think as a society in whole - it's scary that we are just accepting either ourselves, loved ones, etc to be unhealthy and have higher risk of health concerns. (All of this is on the assumption you do not have a medical condition etc.)
I try not to judge people. I hate being judged myself. But I have a hard time seeing overweight children. Why would you want your child to be subjected to ridicule their entire life? The fact of the matter is, we live in a world that judges... and judges hard. It's sooooo sad that our society thinks they can dehumanize people. Everyone deserves to be treated like they matter... because they all do.
We should start teaching calories and what they mean, along with nutrition. If you explained to someone how easy it is (in theory - baring no health issues) to lose weight... more people would be doing it. I think people are accepting being fat, because they think it's next to impossible to lose. Or it means spending hours upon hours in the gym, and that's just not true.
It takes an extremely strong and confident person to defy the norms of society, which are far and few between. Long spiel later - why set yourself up for a more difficult and challenged life, when something can be done about it. It'll take a lot of willpower, and some people might not think it's worth that... and that's ok. But other people might have never been given that push.
Again, I commend anyone who is confident no matter what shape or size. The world can use more confidence and self love like that.2 -
I'll agree. Being morbidly obese, I don't love myself, and that's hard on the emotions especially when you're trying to lose weight (why should I bother, I'm *insert negative statement*). We should love ourselves for who we are, not what we look at. That does not mean that just because we love ourselves we should ignore health concerns, no matter the size.4
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