How Do You Deal With the Toxic/Negative People in Your Live?
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My heart goes out to you. I've had somewhat similar experiences. Please consider going to therapy, perhaps someone who specializes in childhood trauma. I know that sounds funny and overly dramatic but even if your dad never laid a hand on you abusively, I don't think your Dad suddenly turned into the person he is now after giving you a lovely childhood. People with that level of damage almost always traumatize their children (and anyone else they're close to) on an emotional level. But for kids it's worse because they don't have a logical filter, so they often take it all in, and make it part of their world view. It may be that one of the reasons you're having so much trouble setting boundaries now is because of some really nasty messages you got from him as a kid, and internalized.
Here are a few rules that my therapist taught me:
-- A competent (meaning not demented) adult is always responsible for his or her own behavior. They may not want to be, and they may well want others to enable them to behave badly, but *they* are always ultimately responsible, whether they admit it or not;
-- Corollary: Other people's behavior is always about them, not about you. They may try to throw their stuff at you, but that doesn't mean you have to accept delivery. Don't take responsibility for their stuff, just work on yours;
-- Corollary: If someone else tells you that their bad behavior is your fault, they're lying to you (and possibly to themselves) and that still doesn't make it your problem. Even if (and in this situation that is a big if) your behavior was also not good in a given situation, you are just a catalyst. They have a choice as to how to respond, just as you have a choice about how you respond to them;
-- Corollary: The only person you can "fix" is yourself, you can't change anyone else;
-- Just because you feel sorry for someone is no reason to put up with their bad behavior.
-- Finally: These rules are true for *everyone* you aren't an exception because you're related to the person, because you think you're horrible, because you think you're responsible, because you have accepted it up to this point, or for any other reason. You are a good person with the same right to be happy, and the same responsibility for your own behavior that every other competent adult has. Until you believe this, the other rules will sound like they apply to everyone but you.
My problem was that I had internalized so much of what I had been told, I really believed that I was the problem -- I just wasn't good enough, kind enough, compassionate enough, and that if I just worked a little harder, my toxic person (people) would be happy. It took a lot of time and therapy to realize that this is just bunkum. My toxic person had saddled me with an impossible task--one that I could never do right, and one that was making me feel like an absolute failure as a human being. I'm not, and you aren't either. The fact that you care at all is pretty good evidence that you are a very kind person, but that doesn't mean you have to keep taking *kitten* from your dad. Your Dad's behavior has nothing to do with you, it's a product of his own trauma, his own issues, and his own choices. He is the *only* person who can fix it, and sad to say, he probably won't. But just because he's older or ill doesn't mean that he is entitled to poison any more of your life. He really isn't. Your dad isn't a helpless victim of anything but his own choices, he can make better ones, but he will keep making bad ones as long as you enable him (and probably after you stop, if you stop). That isn't your responsibility.12 -
I hadn't seen the long story about the hospital and the dropped pizza when I posted earlier.
The other thing to start working on is to answer requests with either "Yes, I can do that," or "No, I can't do that" or "I can't do it now but I can do it at X time."
He asked you to come and pick up the pizza he'd dropped. You said you didn't feel like it. Because you didn't feel good! BUT: that introduces the idea of this being about feelings, and also implies that your feelings can change. Try to start answering those sorts of demands with either "Okay, I can do that, I will be over at 2" or "I'm sorry, I can't do that today." It takes away the negotiating power he thinks he has (or at least lessens it).
Good point about saying "I can't" rather than "I don't feel like it."
Another way to take away the idea that things are up for negotiation is to respond with a clear an unambiguous No and not say anything else but that.
Demand
Response: "I can't come today."
Argument 1
Response: "I can't come today."
Argument 2
Response: "I can't come today."
Argument 3
Response: "I can't come today."
Argument 4
Response: "I can't come today."
It's boring and tiresome, but can be effective.6 -
You've got to learn how to control the conversation, how to deflect and turn it back on him. When he's kind, give positive reinforcement. When he's rude, don't tolerate it. Even parents can be trained, the parent child roles are reversed.
If you don't want to dine out with him then tell him NO, run him through a drive-up window for his take out.1 -
I can't offer anything from personal experience. It does sound to me like he needs to be in a home. He is severely overweight, has problems with mobility and can't drive. You could still go see him if he were in a home but his care would largely be off your shoulders and seems it would be a much healthier for you mentally. That would allow you to leave whenever he starts in with his verbal abuse and ensure at the same time that he's being taken care of.2
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This is a power struggle. He has no real power do he has to pretend to by belittling you.
Don't let him. Hang up when he talks to you like that on the phone. Leave when he starts on you in person. Say nothing. He'll demand answers, and when he does, tell him why in plain terms without mentioning your feelings and tell him you'll do it every time he pulls that routine with you.
He may react poorly. Continue to come to his house and answer his calls as normal and cut things short consistently if he continues his outbursts--but I bet those will be less and less.1 -
There's a book you might look into called "The Assertive Woman" by Nancy Stanlee Phelps, recommended by my therapist when I was in a black hole of depression and anxiety. It's been updated since I used it but it was extremely helpful to me. It gave me insights into the situations where I was allowing myself to be intimidated into responding to unreasonable demands in ways that were damaging my emotional and physical health. It provides strategies for responding in assertive ways and discusses the difference between assertive and aggressive. It was a very useful tool when I felt I was in a negative situation with no way out - not a cure-all but helpful for the insights and suggestions. I wish you all the best of luck - I've never been in the situation you describe and can only imagine the pain it's causing you.0
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My heart goes out to you. My mother in law is disrespectful and a pain too. We told her many times to stop disrespecting us or we would not have anything to do with her. She did not stop what she was doing and refused to acknowledge she was doing anything wrong.
About a year ago, we cut off all communication with her. I haven't looked back since. I know my husband has been hurt about it but he also knows it's for the best.
Not saying that is what you should do, but I do feel like the "he's my dad" argument for allowing it is not healthy. That gives him the upper hand in any situation. You are a good daughter and an adult. When someone treats me poorly, I walk away, family or not. You should start setting boundaries in his behavior and start backing away if he doesn't change.2 -
I've been following this thread and I think that there have been some good general ideas for dealing with the typical annoying family member. I think a lot of these could work for run-of-the-mill "problem" people. Might not be entirely effective on truly toxic, abusive people who really (IMO) aren't worth the effort it takes to cope with them. It's really a matter of how much of yourself you are willing to invest in a big project (IMO impossible task.)
But I could see many of these strategies being helpful if you weren't ready and willing to break free from a toxic relationship. But you'd really have to be strong to use them, and it would be easy to slide back into your traditional roles if you weren't totally vigilant. I guess it's worth a try, but don't get your hopes up.
I'm not interested in participating in power struggles and I don't like to play games. I guess that's why I made a simple, direct, clean cut from the toxic people, instead of continuing to attempt to cope by using all the various strategies for dealing with A-holes. It sucked too much life out of me to manage all the drama. Just not worth it to me. I just don't have the energy or the desire to bother anymore. Someone else can waste their time and energy playing games and feeding trolls. I know it sounds harsh, but I already wasted too much of my life being bullied. Those days are over.5 -
lucypstacy wrote: »The best way to describe Dad is someone that lacks the empathy of a small child. He can't see someone else's point of view at all. If I say I'm hurt, either he's hurt more or it's my fault I'm hurt. Saying no to Dad is tricky.
Ignoring the fact I'm too passive (been working on that), he tries to 'punish' you if you don't do what he wants you do when he wants you to do it. Last December, I was very sick. I had a kidney transplant 2 years ago and I'm on a lot of immune suppressants. I somehow caught viral pneumonia, and I was in the hospital. I had just gotten out when Dad called. He had dropped a pizza in the floor and wanted me to come and clean up his house. I told him I didn't feel like it, and he pouted. That should have been the end of it, but it wasn't. The next evening he calls and says he's in the hospital. When he cleaned the floor he had a hernia pop out. Now, this is really ironic considering I have to have hernia surgery (see the surgeon again on the 27th), but I didn't say much. He also said he was turning off his phone because he had forgotten his charger. All of this was fine.
The next evening he calls to say he had been discharged and had tried to drive home, but he had gotten sick. He made it sound like he had passed out on the road, but had woke up enough to drive to a rest stop. He asked if I would come and drive him home.
I got Mom to go with me. We drove down there and he did look as if he had passed out, but when I checked on him, he was only asleep. I drove him home in his car and Mom followed in my car. While we were driving, he asked about the bruises on my arm, and I explained that they were from I.V.'s. He had no such bruises. He also let it slip he had eaten a big breakfast at Denny's, which I thought was odd after getting out of the hospital. Anyway, we get to his house and he asked us to find a receipt in the car because he had bought a pair of pants he wanted us to return to the store.
While looking for the receipt, we found the one from Denny's which showed he had purchased two meals. We also found a receipt from K-Mart one hour after he had called and said he was in the hospital. It was clear he had never been in the hospital. I didn't say anything though. He wanted me to fix his phone, so I did a quick look. There was a number he kept calling while in Lexington. A quick search revealed it was the number for an escort service.
My father had been upset that I wouldn't come and clean up a pizza he had dropped that he had gone to Lexington to meet an escort while giving me a story about the hospital so I would worry. When he was done, he had gotten tired and had basically tricked me into giving him a ride home.
I never confronted him. Either he would yell at me for mistrusting him or get mad that I was snooping. However, that's classic Dad right there.
He was able to drive out of town and go to multiple stores restaurants ect. It is possible that he is manipulating OP into doing ALL the errands she is doing. Does he really even need rides to his appointments? It looks like this is all a scam that he's able to pull off somehow by taking advantage of OP's guilt and sense of duty.6 -
VioletRojo wrote: »I don't deal with toxic people at all. I don't have space in my life for people who treat me badly.
^^^^ What they said. Seriously, he maybe your father by blood, but, and I mean no offense, he sure as heck isn't acting like your dad. Just saying. You deserve to be treated with way more respect than that. If I were you, take this advice or leave it, but I'd find someone else to care for him and focus on bettering yourself. I've had toxic people in my life before and I ditched them. I have no room for those kind of people.3 -
Dealing with blood family is just one of life's serious challenges. Learn to deal, not run away.1
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When it comes to family members one can't exactly excavate them from our lives one can love them from a distance though. No one said every family will get on like a house on fire. Still try to work things out though. I find reasoning with the other party helps rather than not wanting to speak on the glaring awkwardness.0
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Dealing with blood family is just one of life's serious challenges. Learn to deal, not run away.
I'm guessing you haven't dealt with a truly toxic relative.
Why is it that when they are related people make excuses and tell you to stay, when if it was the same abuse from a friend or a SO they would say to get far away.6 -
There will always be people who are close to you who may be labeled as negative. So here's my take: it's sounds like you want to keep him in your life despite his bad behavior. Best way to get back at a narcissist is to prove what they say WRONG. Narcissist's have a very hard time when they have to admit it. And it kills them when they know people know they are wrong.
Thing here is that you have to lose the weight to prove it.
Personally I thrive on when people say I can't/won't achieve something I'm shooting for. But that's just how I'm wired.
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i dont. i dont allow people like that in my life.2
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lucypstacy wrote: »I know he won't change. Only I can change.
Partly true. People can and do change. We don't know if he ever will, but chances are he won't. All you can do is encourage him to change and remember that the chances are slim to none. You are right that you only have the power to make yourself change. All you can do is encourage him, change yourself and take care of yourself. Limit his access to you. I agree with many others that he should be aware if you aren't around for him to take advantage of you. I agree wholeheartedly with msf74. He has good insight and expresses things very well.
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My husband is very similar. He will eat at Hardee's in the morning and ask if I want anything than I'll say no he will say why? I'll explain its to many calories at one meal setting for me. He will laugh. It's small things like that but it feels like it's toxic. I need support right now. But I have learned you can get friends on here that can be your best support so that's my advice prove your dad wrong and find you a good support system on here2
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Many people have suggested saying no to him more. I agree with this and also have some suggestions for how to help you do that. I'm thinking since you spend so much time taking care of him that you have neglected yourself. So schedule all your doctor appointments for the year (annual physical, dentist, etc.), find a therapist, join a gym and/or club, sign up for classes... stop giving him all your extra time. It also sounds like you need your own support network, so re-connect with friends/family (that aren't toxic). This way, you have somewhere else to be when you tell him no, making it easier to say no in the first place.
Personally, since you don't want to cut him off completely, I think you should do the bare minimum. Groceries can be ordered online and delivered. Cleaning services can be scheduled. Cut back any extra time with him (no going out to dinner, random phone calls, etc.). As other people have suggested, give yourself permission to leave if he takes it too far.1 -
I cut them off. I don't have time for that in my life.2
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