Clean eating- does it matter?
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amusedmonkey wrote: »I think the thing that bugs me the most about these "clean eating" posts, besides the fact that there is no actual definition, is that the zealots imply that they NEVER eat anything else. It's hard to believe so many people never have a glass of wine at a wedding, eat a Christmas cookie, a piece of pie in Thanksgiving, or a special dinner on vacation. Not to mention that plenty of the food they claim is unprocessed of course is - like 90% of food.
There is one consistent definition for clean eating that distinguishes it from simply eating a diet with a good balance of nutrients: clean eating is the act of assigning a moral hierarchy for food to where it's almost an expression of identity and virtuousness (I'm a disciplined person and I take care of my body and you don't), whereas a normal diet is simply nourishment in various degrees without guilt inducing categorization.
Some cases are quite odd, to be honest. Eat beans at home and they're clean (at least by some definitions), but put them in a burrito and sell it at Taco Bell, and they'll acquire the "dirty" label right away and somehow lose all their nutrients.
Cancer label, not just dirty.
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JohnnyPenso wrote: »
That's also the general impression I have from my short time here at MFP. When the subject of making more nutritionally dense food choices comes up and someone is enthusiastic about it or says it made a real difference in their lives, an army of posters comes along to mock and ridicule and force them to define what they mean with Merriam Webster like accuracy. When somene comes along and says, "Oh I can't stop eating cookies", they are barraged with.....understanding and acceptance. I find it especially funny how the oreos are globbed onto as if the OP wasn't just using oreos as an example to illustrate a point.Sometimes in these "clean eating" conversations, the concept of nutrition seems to get lost. I see repeated statements that calorie deficit is THE ONLY THING that matters, and that food choices are an irrelevant personal preference.
If calories in/calories out really is the only thing that matters in weight loss, why don't we simply accept the OP's choices as what's working best for them and leave it at that? Why can't we be positive about someone making food choices that are healthier in the long run, especially when the OP says it's already having an effect on her skin and hair and her blood work is great for the first time in her life. Sad that she'd be readily accepted if she had a fetish for bonbons and french fries yet was able to meet her calorie targets, but is roasted for advocating a diet that has had literally life changing benefits for her.
Did you read her OP??? She asked a damn question and is getting answers. You, like many others, don't like the answers and therefore are setting up strawmen that don't exist. If someone came on here and said, "oh I cant stop eating Kale, I just love it" they would get the same understanding. Please, I don't care what you eat, I only care when you (the collective you) tell me that your way is superior, cause it aint.12 -
RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Im only trying to lose another few and then I'll start bulking in the gym. I'm still recovering from a fractured patella so I'm getting back down to my normal weight and then I'll start rock climbing and lifting again and put back on some healthy weightRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I know you have probably already heard this, but while clean eating may be your thing it has nil to do with actual weight loss. Weight loss is strictly calories in, calories out.
Why are you trying to lose weight when you are not overweight? In fact, you are at the low end of a healthy weight range.
I'm not just talking about the weight loss itself but also how satisfied you feel during the process and how the rest of you looks.
How the rest of you looks will largely be dictated by how fast you lose (those who lose too quickly often look sallow and experience the side effects your friend is having), genetics and if/what exercise you engage in. Diet plays a pretty small role. I had a boyfriend who literally ate potato based products, white bread, some meats and ketchup. Fit as a fiddle with a six pack (and nice tush but that's by the by).6 -
JohnnyPenso wrote: »
That's also the general impression I have from my short time here at MFP. When the subject of making more nutritionally dense food choices comes up and someone is enthusiastic about it or says it made a real difference in their lives, an army of posters comes along to mock and ridicule and force them to define what they mean with Merriam Webster like accuracy. When somene comes along and says, "Oh I can't stop eating cookies", they are barraged with.....understanding and acceptance. I find it especially funny how the oreos are globbed onto as if the OP wasn't just using oreos as an example to illustrate a point.Sometimes in these "clean eating" conversations, the concept of nutrition seems to get lost. I see repeated statements that calorie deficit is THE ONLY THING that matters, and that food choices are an irrelevant personal preference.
If calories in/calories out really is the only thing that matters in weight loss, why don't we simply accept the OP's choices as what's working best for them and leave it at that? Why can't we be positive about someone making food choices that are healthier in the long run, especially when the OP says it's already having an effect on her skin and hair and her blood work is great for the first time in her life. Sad that she'd be readily accepted if she had a fetish for bonbons and french fries yet was able to meet her calorie targets, but is roasted for advocating a diet that has had literally life changing benefits for her.JohnnyPenso wrote: »
That's also the general impression I have from my short time here at MFP. When the subject of making more nutritionally dense food choices comes up and someone is enthusiastic about it or says it made a real difference in their lives, an army of posters comes along to mock and ridicule and force them to define what they mean with Merriam Webster like accuracy. When somene comes along and says, "Oh I can't stop eating cookies", they are barraged with.....understanding and acceptance. I find it especially funny how the oreos are globbed onto as if the OP wasn't just using oreos as an example to illustrate a point.Sometimes in these "clean eating" conversations, the concept of nutrition seems to get lost. I see repeated statements that calorie deficit is THE ONLY THING that matters, and that food choices are an irrelevant personal preference.
If calories in/calories out really is the only thing that matters in weight loss, why don't we simply accept the OP's choices as what's working best for them and leave it at that? Why can't we be positive about someone making food choices that are healthier in the long run, especially when the OP says it's already having an effect on her skin and hair and her blood work is great for the first time in her life. Sad that she'd be readily accepted if she had a fetish for bonbons and french fries yet was able to meet her calorie targets, but is roasted for advocating a diet that has had literally life changing benefits for her.
I feel like people hang onto some buzz words that trigger them and lost my overall point but I'll just be careful when posting in the future. You clearly have to be super precise and careful with language on these forums lol.2 -
Normally there's less calories in whole foods, so one can eat more volume which is why hunger may not be as big a deal. Once someone has met their macro/micro nutrient needs though, one doesn't get "extra credit" for eating more nutrition.RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I've had my share of eating nothing but whole foods for contest prep and even though I was able to eat volume and wasn't too hungry, I was moody that I couldn't have pizza or ice cream and didn't want to be around anyone that could eat it.
In other words, I can't eat that way for life. I'd have a different attitude towards food and my culture institutes too many good tasting "dirty" foods I like too much to ever give up.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I would love to sign in to MFP for one day and not see a thread using the words 'clean eating' ....19
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In the OP you said you ate "super clean", now you come back saying, "I drink twice a year and I eat a homemade dessert about once a month. I do use some processed sauces and when I'm sick, I eat white toast and drink processed juice", in other words, you moderate......just like most of us do. The difference is, we don't start threads that say "how important do you think it is to eat a homemade brownie in moderation?" See the difference? Quite honestly, it seems your OP was more of a humble brag on how superior your diet is to your friends and a backhanded put down of her. Moral equivocation has no place when it comes to food.
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Sounds like it matters just for you issues. I have no issues eating any of those. And they ALL taste great to me.cassandrarodriguez89 wrote: »Yes, it 100% matters, for instance, I eat healthy. I ate one cancer meal (taco bell) and broke out in sweat throwing up for hours. If I eat a slice of cake I get horrid acne. Actually, anything that has no good nutrition sends me into oblivion, I will get sick, depressed and acne. Not to mention I hate the taste of white bread, white rice and fried foods. The flavors are nasty, I don't understand why some people enjoy the taste, I honestly think they pretend to like it because they don't want to make effort in eating healthy. White bread tastes like paper... unless they have weird taste buds its a strange concept to me. I will say sugar is different though, it tastes AMAZING... and sometimes its worth the acne and migraine
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »Sometimes in these "clean eating" conversations, the concept of nutrition seems to get lost. I see repeated statements that calorie deficit is THE ONLY THING that matters, and that food choices are an irrelevant personal preference. Sure, there's a certain physics involved in weight loss, and you could lose weight eating nothing but candy bars if you count calories accurately -- but our bodies are more than just numbers on a scale! There are a whole bunch of nutrients we need, and more of those nutrients exist in foods like lean meats, cheeses, beans, dark green vegetables, whole grains, etc., than exist in cupcakes and soda. Nutrition is actually a real science. What you put in your mouth matters for more reasons than just calories. It affects our brains, our cardiac systems, all the delicate chemistry of our bodies.
Furthermore, when you're eating fewer calories than you burn, every bite of food you take becomes more important in terms of meeting your body's needs. For instance, I'm eating at around 1200 calories a day plus most of my exercise calories. At 1200 calories, my body's nutritional demands simply don't leave any room for foods that aren't nutrient dense. I have to make sure every bite is maximally nutritious, or I'd end up thinner but malnourished.
I also see a lot of arguments that "clean eating" doesn't exist, because it doesn't have an ironclad definition. It seems sensible to substitute the phrase "nutrient dense" for "clean." That's objectively measurable. If you eat a 250-calorie meal of kale and chicken, you'll be getting protein, fiber, Vitamins A, K, C, B6, manganese, calcium, copper, potassium, magnesium, selenium, phosphorus, and more. If you eat a 250-calorie meal of 2 cookies, what do you get? Some fat, some refined carbs, and maybe a bit of protein from eggs in the recipe?
It's also worth noting that added sugars are not a nutrient our bodies need. While scientists are still disputing the exact health outcome of eating more sugar than we need, nobody claims that our bodies NEED added sugar. We can get all the sugars we need from eating fruits and vegies and grains that include fiber and other important nutrients in the same package.
So while we're eating fewer calories than we're burning, it doesn't make sense to squander those precious calories on something our bodies just don't need.
I completely agree. I think if a lot of people checked their food intake on chronometer.com (which shows your whole RDA) instead of just MyFitnessPal, they'd realize how many nutrient deficiencies their diet may be contributing to. I think you'll have an easier time excercise he, sticking to a diet and generally moving around your life if you are eating a nutrient rich diet with minimally processed foods
You haven't read a single thing we've posted, have you? YOU CAN STILL EAT A NUTRIENT RICH DIET AND NOT EAT CLEAN. In fact, from your description above you're doing it right now.14 -
Hate to tell you, that just about everything you read today in the paper has the legitimacy to cause cancer IF exceeded in use. Understand what you're actually reading and make sure to find counter points to any article to see if evidence actually holds up or else it's just opinion. And many times it's just opinion in an article.cassandrarodriguez89 wrote: »Cancer meal means that ingredients in the food have been proven to cause cancer or cause death. When they make white bread and white rice in the process they get rid of good nutrition. This is in every single science article and all over the news almost every day in the past several decades.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Im only trying to lose another few and then I'll start bulking in the gym. I'm still recovering from a fractured patella so I'm getting back down to my normal weight and then I'll start rock climbing and lifting again and put back on some healthy weightRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I know you have probably already heard this, but while clean eating may be your thing it has nil to do with actual weight loss. Weight loss is strictly calories in, calories out.
Why are you trying to lose weight when you are not overweight? In fact, you are at the low end of a healthy weight range.
I'm not just talking about the weight loss itself but also how satisfied you feel during the process and how the rest of you looks.
The bolded is a function of exercise, macros, and micros, not food labels. But now this is starting to get insulting to us non-clean eaters.7 -
I lost 90 lbs eating donuts and pizza.
And white bread.
And cookies.
And brownies.
And tacos.
Shall I continue?9 -
RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Im only trying to lose another few and then I'll start bulking in the gym. I'm still recovering from a fractured patella so I'm getting back down to my normal weight and then I'll start rock climbing and lifting again and put back on some healthy weightRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I know you have probably already heard this, but while clean eating may be your thing it has nil to do with actual weight loss. Weight loss is strictly calories in, calories out.
Why are you trying to lose weight when you are not overweight? In fact, you are at the low end of a healthy weight range.
I'm not just talking about the weight loss itself but also how satisfied you feel during the process and how the rest of you looks.
I don't understand the statement I have put in bold. You can't tell by how someone looks whether they eat clean. I used to eat loads of fruits, vegetables, no added sugar, no sodas, low fat, and I gained weight, but nobody could tell that by looking at me. In fact, I'm pretty sure their impression was that I was eating a lot of high calorie foods.
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Um, anyone who thinks their way of eating makes them MORALLY superior to someone else has some serious issues. I wasn't bragging about anything. I was engaging in conversation and discussion. I have no problem with the people who stuck to the discussion but it's ridiculous you can't claim to be a healthy eater if at least 90% of your choices are healthy. People who take it beyond that have orthorexia. My choices are mostly all whole food plant based. Everybody moderates to different degrees. I'm not judging anyone. Actually- you areprattiger65 wrote: »In the OP you said you ate "super clean", now you come back saying, "I drink twice a year and I eat a homemade dessert about once a month. I do use some processed sauces and when I'm sick, I eat white toast and drink processed juice", in other words, you moderate......just like most of us do. The difference is, we don't start threads that say "how important do you think it is to eat a homemade brownie in moderation?" See the difference? Quite honestly, it seems your OP was more of a humble brag on how superior your diet is to your friends and a backhanded put down of her. Moral equivocation has no place when it comes to food.
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RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Um, anyone who thinks their way of eating makes them MORALLY superior to someone else has some serious issues. I wasn't bragging about anything. I was engaging in conversation and discussion. I have no problem with the people who stuck to the discussion but it's ridiculous you can't claim to be a healthy eater if at least 90% of your choices are healthy. People who take it beyond that have orthorexia. My choices are mostly all whole food plant based. Everybody moderates to different degrees. I'm not judging anyone. Actually- you areprattiger65 wrote: »In the OP you said you ate "super clean", now you come back saying, "I drink twice a year and I eat a homemade dessert about once a month. I do use some processed sauces and when I'm sick, I eat white toast and drink processed juice", in other words, you moderate......just like most of us do. The difference is, we don't start threads that say "how important do you think it is to eat a homemade brownie in moderation?" See the difference? Quite honestly, it seems your OP was more of a humble brag on how superior your diet is to your friends and a backhanded put down of her. Moral equivocation has no place when it comes to food.
"healthy eater" =/= "clean eater"
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RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Im only trying to lose another few and then I'll start bulking in the gym. I'm still recovering from a fractured patella so I'm getting back down to my normal weight and then I'll start rock climbing and lifting again and put back on some healthy weightRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I know you have probably already heard this, but while clean eating may be your thing it has nil to do with actual weight loss. Weight loss is strictly calories in, calories out.
Why are you trying to lose weight when you are not overweight? In fact, you are at the low end of a healthy weight range.
I'm not just talking about the weight loss itself but also how satisfied you feel during the process and how the rest of you looks.
Wow.5 -
RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Um, anyone who thinks their way of eating makes them MORALLY superior to someone else has some serious issues. I wasn't bragging about anything. I was engaging in conversation and discussion. I have no problem with the people who stuck to the discussion but it's ridiculous you can't claim to be a healthy eater if at least 90% of your choices are healthy. People who take it beyond that have orthorexia. My choices are mostly all whole food plant based. Everybody moderates to different degrees. I'm not judging anyone. Actually- you areprattiger65 wrote: »In the OP you said you ate "super clean", now you come back saying, "I drink twice a year and I eat a homemade dessert about once a month. I do use some processed sauces and when I'm sick, I eat white toast and drink processed juice", in other words, you moderate......just like most of us do. The difference is, we don't start threads that say "how important do you think it is to eat a homemade brownie in moderation?" See the difference? Quite honestly, it seems your OP was more of a humble brag on how superior your diet is to your friends and a backhanded put down of her. Moral equivocation has no place when it comes to food.
Healthy eating and clean eating are not synonymous, though. Maybe that's why we're having such a strange conversation here.9 -
Well my hair and nails look fantastic eating this way and so does my skin. Plus it's been effortless and fun. I feel great. I didn't claim that you cod tell how someone ate by looking at them but you can certainly see changes in yourself. You can eat however you want. I'm just commenting and straying discussionRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Im only trying to lose another few and then I'll start bulking in the gym. I'm still recovering from a fractured patella so I'm getting back down to my normal weight and then I'll start rock climbing and lifting again and put back on some healthy weightRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I know you have probably already heard this, but while clean eating may be your thing it has nil to do with actual weight loss. Weight loss is strictly calories in, calories out.
Why are you trying to lose weight when you are not overweight? In fact, you are at the low end of a healthy weight range.
I'm not just talking about the weight loss itself but also how satisfied you feel during the process and how the rest of you looks.
I don't understand the statement I have put in bold. You can't tell by how someone looks whether they eat clean. I used to eat loads of fruits, vegetables, no added sugar, no sodas, low fat, and I gained weight, but nobody could tell that by looking at me. In fact, I'm pretty sure their impression was that I was eating a lot of high calorie foods. whatever works. You do you. I feel like healthy foods have made this process easier for me
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RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Well my hair and nails look fantastic eating this way and so does my skin. Plus it's been effortless and fun. I feel great. I didn't claim that you cod tell how someone ate by looking at them but you can certainly see changes in yourself. You can eat however you want. I'm just commenting and straying discussionRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Im only trying to lose another few and then I'll start bulking in the gym. I'm still recovering from a fractured patella so I'm getting back down to my normal weight and then I'll start rock climbing and lifting again and put back on some healthy weightRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I know you have probably already heard this, but while clean eating may be your thing it has nil to do with actual weight loss. Weight loss is strictly calories in, calories out.
Why are you trying to lose weight when you are not overweight? In fact, you are at the low end of a healthy weight range.
I'm not just talking about the weight loss itself but also how satisfied you feel during the process and how the rest of you looks.
I don't understand the statement I have put in bold. You can't tell by how someone looks whether they eat clean. I used to eat loads of fruits, vegetables, no added sugar, no sodas, low fat, and I gained weight, but nobody could tell that by looking at me. In fact, I'm pretty sure their impression was that I was eating a lot of high calorie foods. whatever works. You do you. I feel like healthy foods have made this process easier for me
You seem to be saying that those of us who've said we don't eat clean don't look as good because of it.9 -
diannethegeek wrote: »RedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Well my hair and nails look fantastic eating this way and so does my skin. Plus it's been effortless and fun. I feel great. I didn't claim that you cod tell how someone ate by looking at them but you can certainly see changes in yourself. You can eat however you want. I'm just commenting and straying discussionRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »
Im only trying to lose another few and then I'll start bulking in the gym. I'm still recovering from a fractured patella so I'm getting back down to my normal weight and then I'll start rock climbing and lifting again and put back on some healthy weightRedheadedPrincess14 wrote: »My view is yes. I eat a super clean diet Within my calorie range and I am losing more then a pound a week (even though I'm not overweight) I'm 5"8 and started at about 160 and now I'm at 138. It's been super easy and my skin and hair look great.
My best friend is focusing only on calories and she is losing too but she always feels hungry, her nails are breaking too and she gets moody. So I think clean eating is super important during weight loss. What do you guys think?
P.S. my food diary is open if you want to look and friend adds are welcome
I know you have probably already heard this, but while clean eating may be your thing it has nil to do with actual weight loss. Weight loss is strictly calories in, calories out.
Why are you trying to lose weight when you are not overweight? In fact, you are at the low end of a healthy weight range.
I'm not just talking about the weight loss itself but also how satisfied you feel during the process and how the rest of you looks.
I don't understand the statement I have put in bold. You can't tell by how someone looks whether they eat clean. I used to eat loads of fruits, vegetables, no added sugar, no sodas, low fat, and I gained weight, but nobody could tell that by looking at me. In fact, I'm pretty sure their impression was that I was eating a lot of high calorie foods. whatever works. You do you. I feel like healthy foods have made this process easier for me
You seem to be saying that those of us who've said we don't eat clean don't look as good because of it.
My hair, skin and nails got better when I started IIFYM and rejected any association with "clean eating".11
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