Cutting Sugar From my Diet entirely
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peckchris3267 wrote: »
If you are trying to lose weight any form of sugar is a bad idea. It will give you a crash which will leave you craving more. It also puts you on an energy roller coaster. Sugar also burn off quickly and leave you hungry. Protein and fat keep you full for much longer with a consistent energy level.janejellyroll wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
Cutting fruit is a good idea. Fruit is loaded with fructose which is essentially sugar. No real need to eliminate vegetables. I try to keep my carbs below 20grams per day and get all of my carbs from vegetables.cwolfman13 wrote: »I'm considering cutting sugar completely out from my diet. For the past three weeks that I've been dieting, I've cut down a ton because I'm no longer drinking fraps and other junk *kitten* every day and it hasn't felt like that much of a burden. Has anyone else gone sugar-free entirely? What effects have you noticed? The only thing now I feel like would affect me is the fact that I would have to cut fruits out which is rather disappointing.
Eliminating fruit and vegetables seems like a rather bad idea...
So what's wrong with something being "essentially sugar"?
Extremist keto propaganda like that does a disservice to ketogenic diets in general. Some people find that it helps with their cravings, satiety and adherence but such blanket statements don't apply to everybody, nor are they backed by legitimate science. It also diminishes the credibility of ketogenic dieting in general by associating it with quackery and scaremongering.12 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »"Weight loss is a huge benefit of ketogenic diets due to lowered insulin levels and the body’s ability to burn stored fat. I’ve personally found that the classic ketogenic diet is quite possibly the best diet for weight loss, especially considering how quickly it usually works.
Following a ketogenic diet may also help prevent and even kill cancer cells. There are several medical studies — such as two conducted by the Department of Radiation Oncology at the Holden Comprehensive Cancer Center for the University of Iowa, and the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, for example— that show the ketogenic diet is an effective treatment for cancer and other serious health problems.
A modified ketogenic diet (what most people think of as a moderately low-carb diet) can be beneficial for most relatively healthy adults who are at an increased risk for metabolic syndrome, including those struggling with losing weight or controlling levels of blood sugar (glucose). Studies show that high-fat diets like the ketogenic diet also do not typically raise cholesterol and may actually reduce cardiovascular disease risk factors, especially in those who are obese.
Additionally ketogenic diets have been used to treat and even help reverse cognitive impairments, including Alzheimer’s symptoms."
And???
I have none of the above issues...0 -
Who are you quoting? And this is just a personal approach. It DOESN'T state nor evidence that if one had a diet with moderate sugar amounts in them, that they would be ineffective for weight loss.peckchris3267 wrote: »"Weight loss is a huge benefit of ketogenic diets due to lowered insulin levels and the body’s ability to burn stored fat. I’ve personally found that the classic ketogenic diet is quite possibly the best diet for weight loss, especially considering how quickly it usually works.
Following a ketogenic diet may also help prevent and even kill cancer cells. There are several medical studies — such as two conducted by the Department of Radiation Oncology at the Holden Comprehensive Cancer Center for the University of Iowa, and the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, for example— that show the ketogenic diet is an effective treatment for cancer and other serious health problems.
A modified ketogenic diet (what most people think of as a moderately low-carb diet) can be beneficial for most relatively healthy adults who are at an increased risk for metabolic syndrome, including those struggling with losing weight or controlling levels of blood sugar (glucose). Studies show that high-fat diets like the ketogenic diet also do not typically raise cholesterol and may actually reduce cardiovascular disease risk factors, especially in those who are obese.
Additionally ketogenic diets have been used to treat and even help reverse cognitive impairments, including Alzheimer’s symptoms."
Still comes down to CICO. And always will.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
9 -
Who are you quoting? And this is just a personal approach. It DOESN'T state nor evidence that if one had a diet with moderate sugar amounts in them, that they would be ineffective for weight loss.peckchris3267 wrote: »"Weight loss is a huge benefit of ketogenic diets due to lowered insulin levels and the body’s ability to burn stored fat. I’ve personally found that the classic ketogenic diet is quite possibly the best diet for weight loss, especially considering how quickly it usually works.
Following a ketogenic diet may also help prevent and even kill cancer cells. There are several medical studies — such as two conducted by the Department of Radiation Oncology at the Holden Comprehensive Cancer Center for the University of Iowa, and the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, for example— that show the ketogenic diet is an effective treatment for cancer and other serious health problems.
A modified ketogenic diet (what most people think of as a moderately low-carb diet) can be beneficial for most relatively healthy adults who are at an increased risk for metabolic syndrome, including those struggling with losing weight or controlling levels of blood sugar (glucose). Studies show that high-fat diets like the ketogenic diet also do not typically raise cholesterol and may actually reduce cardiovascular disease risk factors, especially in those who are obese.
Additionally ketogenic diets have been used to treat and even help reverse cognitive impairments, including Alzheimer’s symptoms."
Still comes down to CICO. And always will.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
He's quoting: https://draxe.com/truth-about-the-controversial-ketogenic-diet/2 -
There are enough sugar calories in fruit to make it potentially harder for those on lower calorie diets to meet desired macros, in which case someone not into bro-science might also opt to limit it.0
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True, but that's if macros really matter to that person. Obviously someone on keto isn't that concerned about meeting carb macros.There are enough sugar calories in fruit to make it potentially harder for those on lower calorie diets to meet desired macros, in which case someone not into bro-science might also opt to limit it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
There are enough sugar calories in fruit to make it potentially harder for those on lower calorie diets to meet desired macros, in which case someone not into bro-science might also opt to limit it.
Depends on macros, depends on whether you prefer getting carbs from starches, fruit, or some combination.
I'm not at all saying that anyone should eat fruit if they don't want to, but objecting to the claim that it's BETTER in general to cut it entirely out (OP did not say that, of course, but another poster has).1 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »"Weight loss is a huge benefit of ketogenic diets due to lowered insulin levels and the body’s ability to burn stored fat. I’ve personally found that the classic ketogenic diet is quite possibly the best diet for weight loss, especially considering how quickly it usually works.
Following a ketogenic diet may also help prevent and even kill cancer cells. There are several medical studies — such as two conducted by the Department of Radiation Oncology at the Holden Comprehensive Cancer Center for the University of Iowa, and the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, for example— that show the ketogenic diet is an effective treatment for cancer and other serious health problems.
A modified ketogenic diet (what most people think of as a moderately low-carb diet) can be beneficial for most relatively healthy adults who are at an increased risk for metabolic syndrome, including those struggling with losing weight or controlling levels of blood sugar (glucose). Studies show that high-fat diets like the ketogenic diet also do not typically raise cholesterol and may actually reduce cardiovascular disease risk factors, especially in those who are obese.
Additionally ketogenic diets have been used to treat and even help reverse cognitive impairments, including Alzheimer’s symptoms."
1. Ketogenic diets work not due to lower insulin levels, but because they create a calorie deficit. Their proponents find the macro balance on them satiating and thus, easy for them to adhere to, but this is not by all means universally true (contrary to what keto gurus preach, not all people find fat to be satiating). In a recent study done on ketogenic diets, any metabolic advantage from switching over to using ketones as a fuel source in the body was shown to be small and to only last for a very, very short time. Over the long haul, both ketogenic and any other plan that uses a calorie deficit will result in fat loss.
2. Why bring up diseased populations? Also, that argument neglects to mention that high fat diets are contra-indicated for a portion of people for whom high cholesterol is genetic, and that is no small number of people. Speaking from experience here. My cholesterol is familial and responds best to a low-fat, high carb diet with limited saturated fat and plenty of exercise.
3. Ketogenic diets have also been shown to worsen a subset of patients with Alzheimers symptoms who had a certain gene variant.
4. More to the point, what is your point? Recommending keto for the sake of recommending keto is just silly. It's a macro balance, not a medical prescription. Telling people that it will ward off this or that is just whistling in the dark.8 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »"Weight loss is a huge benefit of ketogenic diets due to lowered insulin levels and the body’s ability to burn stored fat. I’ve personally found that the classic ketogenic diet is quite possibly the best diet for weight loss, especially considering how quickly it usually works.
Following a ketogenic diet may also help prevent and even kill cancer cells. There are several medical studies — such as two conducted by the Department of Radiation Oncology at the Holden Comprehensive Cancer Center for the University of Iowa, and the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, for example— that show the ketogenic diet is an effective treatment for cancer and other serious health problems.
A modified ketogenic diet (what most people think of as a moderately low-carb diet) can be beneficial for most relatively healthy adults who are at an increased risk for metabolic syndrome, including those struggling with losing weight or controlling levels of blood sugar (glucose). Studies show that high-fat diets like the ketogenic diet also do not typically raise cholesterol and may actually reduce cardiovascular disease risk factors, especially in those who are obese.
Additionally ketogenic diets have been used to treat and even help reverse cognitive impairments, including Alzheimer’s symptoms."
I call bull. first of all I have familial hypercholesterolemia and a keto diet (due to the high fat intake) would raise my cholesterol and increase my risk of a heart attack,stroke,etc. Its good for those who have type 2,pcos,insulin resistance and some seizure disorders, but if it cured cancer drs you would think would put people in a keto diet instead of radiation/chemo.I lost a lot of fat eating in a deficit(which is how fat is lost).
keto uses the dietary fat you consume as fuel, not stored body fat as that is lost in a deficit(no matter how you eat). If you do keto and arent in a deficit you arent going to lose weight/fat. what is lost at the beginning is a lot of water weight because of depleted water and glycogen stores.I have a metabolic disorder and keto is not beneficial for me.I have to be on a low fat diet and I lost a lot of fat because of a deficit of calories. I went from a 39 waist to 27,49inch hips to 38 inches. lost a lot of fat from my face,legs,butt,etc. I didnt do that doing keto either.
I am not knocking keto in any way,shape or form.But its not a cure all and its not the best diet out there. The best one is one you can stick to and lose weight in a healthy manner and maintain that weight loss.9 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »There are enough sugar calories in fruit to make it potentially harder for those on lower calorie diets to meet desired macros, in which case someone not into bro-science might also opt to limit it.
Depends on macros, depends on whether you prefer getting carbs from starches, fruit, or some combination.
I'm not at all saying that anyone should eat fruit if they don't want to, but objecting to the claim that it's BETTER in general to cut it entirely out (OP did not say that, of course, but another poster has).
True, but that's if macros really matter to that person. Obviously someone on keto isn't that concerned about meeting carb macros.There are enough sugar calories in fruit to make it potentially harder for those on lower calorie diets to meet desired macros, in which case someone not into bro-science might also opt to limit it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I was referring to it possibly crowding out protein and/or fat on e.g. a sub-1300 calorie day.0 -
(There have been a few times I wanted a banana in the evening, and opted for a protein shake or yogurt instead after looking at my food diary).0
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(There have been a few times I wanted a banana in the evening, and opted for a protein shake or yogurt instead after looking at my food diary).
I understand this as a personal reason for choosing something other than a high cal fruit (some strawberries would take up fewer cals) at a particular time, sure. I did 1250 when first losing, and currently have no room for fruit because I'm trying lower carb than usual (I will fit in fruit when its back in season, though, because its worth it to me, but I will limit it some, sure). However, if one prefers fruit to starches, that's a good way to get in fruit even at a lower calorie level (it's one thing I used to do). My personal meal template (non very low carb version) is protein, vegetables, starch, add fat for cooking and accent. BUT, I'd use fruit interchangeably with the starch course -- feel like pork chops, apples, onions, and brussels sprouts for dinner? The apple fits as easily as rice or a potato would!0 -
Although in fairness, that probably happens because I DO opt for that glass of Pino/etc while dancing beforehand.
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My yogurt & oat batches always have fruit and /or jam (along with added protein powder).0
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diannethegeek wrote: »
Who are you quoting? And this is just a personal approach. It DOESN'T state nor evidence that if one had a diet with moderate sugar amounts in them, that they would be ineffective for weight loss.peckchris3267 wrote: »"Weight loss is a huge benefit of ketogenic diets due to lowered insulin levels and the body’s ability to burn stored fat. I’ve personally found that the classic ketogenic diet is quite possibly the best diet for weight loss, especially considering how quickly it usually works.
Following a ketogenic diet may also help prevent and even kill cancer cells. There are several medical studies — such as two conducted by the Department of Radiation Oncology at the Holden Comprehensive Cancer Center for the University of Iowa, and the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, for example— that show the ketogenic diet is an effective treatment for cancer and other serious health problems.
A modified ketogenic diet (what most people think of as a moderately low-carb diet) can be beneficial for most relatively healthy adults who are at an increased risk for metabolic syndrome, including those struggling with losing weight or controlling levels of blood sugar (glucose). Studies show that high-fat diets like the ketogenic diet also do not typically raise cholesterol and may actually reduce cardiovascular disease risk factors, especially in those who are obese.
Additionally ketogenic diets have been used to treat and even help reverse cognitive impairments, including Alzheimer’s symptoms."
Still comes down to CICO. And always will.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
He's quoting: https://draxe.com/truth-about-the-controversial-ketogenic-diet/
"Dr. Axe" sounds like a media nickname for a serial killer.
ETA:
"Dr. Josh Axe, DNM, DC, CNS is a certified doctor of natural medicine, doctor of chiropractic and clinical nutritionist with a passion to help people get healthy by using food as medicine."
https://draxe.com/about-dr-josh-axe/6 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »
If you are trying to lose weight any form of sugar is a bad idea. It will give you a crash which will leave you craving more. It also puts you on an energy roller coaster. Sugar also burn off quickly and leave you hungry. Protein and fat keep you full for much longer with a consistent energy level.janejellyroll wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
Cutting fruit is a good idea. Fruit is loaded with fructose which is essentially sugar. No real need to eliminate vegetables. I try to keep my carbs below 20grams per day and get all of my carbs from vegetables.cwolfman13 wrote: »I'm considering cutting sugar completely out from my diet. For the past three weeks that I've been dieting, I've cut down a ton because I'm no longer drinking fraps and other junk *kitten* every day and it hasn't felt like that much of a burden. Has anyone else gone sugar-free entirely? What effects have you noticed? The only thing now I feel like would affect me is the fact that I would have to cut fruits out which is rather disappointing.
Eliminating fruit and vegetables seems like a rather bad idea...
So what's wrong with something being "essentially sugar"?
I get this sort of crash from apple juice, but not whole apples.
I had huge strawberry beds at my last place and ate an insane amount of strawberries last few Junes, no crash.
I ate tons of tropical fruit when I was in Costa Rica and lost weight without even trying. I didn't own a scale at the time so cannot say how much I lost in pounds, but I did go down a size in jeans. Without trying. The fruit was taking the place of higher calorie foods like ice cream and baked goods, and so creating a calorie deficit.5 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »There are enough sugar calories in fruit to make it potentially harder for those on lower calorie diets to meet desired macros, in which case someone not into bro-science might also opt to limit it.
Depends on macros, depends on whether you prefer getting carbs from starches, fruit, or some combination.
I'm not at all saying that anyone should eat fruit if they don't want to, but objecting to the claim that it's BETTER in general to cut it entirely out (OP did not say that, of course, but another poster has).
True, but that's if macros really matter to that person. Obviously someone on keto isn't that concerned about meeting carb macros.There are enough sugar calories in fruit to make it potentially harder for those on lower calorie diets to meet desired macros, in which case someone not into bro-science might also opt to limit it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I was referring to it possibly crowding out protein and/or fat on e.g. a sub-1300 calorie day.
But it doesn't necessarily do that (depending on overall macro goals). I could cut out a few slices of bread and have a cup of strawberries and a medium apple instead. I could even dip that apple in peanut butter and have protein as well
And if I chose 2 eggs for breakfast with 1 slice of toast and butter, and a glass of 1% milk (~400 calories). Greek yogurt, apple, 1TB peanut butter, 1 cup strawberries for lunch (~350) and grilled chicken covered in salsa and a bit of mozzerella, steamed broccoli, and 1/2 cup rice for dinner (~500 calories, depending on size of chicken) I'm hitting 1250 calories and still meeting protein and fat needs. Remember, someone small enough to need a 1200 calorie diet doesn't necessarily need as much protein as someone eating 2000 calories. 0 -
Actually, for fun, I input that into an old day in my food diary. Here is the result:
Breakfast Calories
kcal
Carbs
g
Fat
g
Protein
g
Fiber
g
Sodium
mg
Price First - 1% Low-fat Milk, 1 cup 110 13 3 8 0 130
Butter - Salted, 1 pat (1" sq, 1/3" high) 36 0 4 0 0 29
Great Value - Whole Wheat Bread, 1 slice 70 13 1 3 2 150
Egg - Egg, 2 large 143 1 10 13 0 142
Add Food Quick Tools 359 27 18 24 2 451
Morning Snack
Add Food Quick Tools
Lunch
Chobani - Strawberry Banana (on Bottom), 1 container (5.3 oz) 150 18 3 11 0 50
Apple - Gala Dl - Gala, 100 g 71 16 0 0 3 1
Strawberries, raw, 1 cup, halves 49 12 0 1 3 2
Kroger Value - Creamy Peanut Butter, 1 tbsp 90 4 8 4 1 75
Add Food Quick Tools 360 50 11 16 7 128
Afternoon Snack
Add Food Quick Tools
Dinner
Kroger - Chicken Breast Cutlets, 4 oz 110 0 3 22 0 230
salsa - salsa, 4 tablespoon 30 6 0 2 0 260
Broccoli - Cooked, Steamed, 1 cup 55 11 0 4 5 11
Kroger - Mozzarella Shredded Cheese, 0.25 cup 80 1 5 8 0 170
Dinner - Rice, White, Steamed, 0.5 Cup (cooked) 103 23 0 2 0 25
Add Food Quick Tools 378 41 8 38 5 696
Miscellaneous
Add Food Quick Tools
Totals 1,097 118 37 78 14 1,275
Your Daily Goal 1,280 160 43 64 25 2,300
Remaining 183 42 6 -14 11 1,025
Calories
kcal
Carbs
g
Fat
g
Protein
g
Fiber
g
Sodium
mg
I didn't format the copy/past well, but I hope you can see that this day has just under 1100 calories and still provides 78g of protein. So this hypothetical person could add in a couple of carrots and maybe some tuna at lunch (or elsewhere, I don't care) and get even more protein as well as the full 3 servings of vegetables. Fruit sugars/carbs don't necessarily "displace" anything. (In fact, this is better than my usual diet, which has more starches like bread or cereal, and not always this much fruit).1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »There are enough sugar calories in fruit to make it potentially harder for those on lower calorie diets to meet desired macros, in which case someone not into bro-science might also opt to limit it.
Depends on macros, depends on whether you prefer getting carbs from starches, fruit, or some combination.
I'm not at all saying that anyone should eat fruit if they don't want to, but objecting to the claim that it's BETTER in general to cut it entirely out (OP did not say that, of course, but another poster has).
True, but that's if macros really matter to that person. Obviously someone on keto isn't that concerned about meeting carb macros.There are enough sugar calories in fruit to make it potentially harder for those on lower calorie diets to meet desired macros, in which case someone not into bro-science might also opt to limit it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I was referring to it possibly crowding out protein and/or fat on e.g. a sub-1300 calorie day.
But it doesn't necessarily do that (depending on overall macro goals). I could cut out a few slices of bread and have a cup of strawberries and a medium apple instead. I could even dip that apple in peanut butter and have protein as well And if I chose 2 eggs for breakfast with 1 slice of toast and butter, and a glass of 1% milk (~400 calories). Greek yogurt, apple, 1TB peanut butter, 1 cup strawberries for lunch (~350) and grilled chicken covered in salsa and a bit of mozzerella, steamed broccoli, and 1/2 cup rice for dinner (~500 calories, depending on size of chicken) I'm hitting 1250 calories and still meeting protein and fat needs. Remember, someone small enough to need a 1200 calorie diet doesn't necessarily need as much protein as someone eating 2000 calories.
Ah. Of course. I didn't mention that the default protein macro on MFP is significantly lower than what is typically recommended, especially if you lift.1 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »
If you are trying to lose weight any form of sugar is a bad idea. It will give you a crash which will leave you craving more. It also puts you on an energy roller coaster. Sugar also burn off quickly and leave you hungry. Protein and fat keep you full for much longer with a consistent energy level.janejellyroll wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
Cutting fruit is a good idea. Fruit is loaded with fructose which is essentially sugar. No real need to eliminate vegetables. I try to keep my carbs below 20grams per day and get all of my carbs from vegetables.cwolfman13 wrote: »I'm considering cutting sugar completely out from my diet. For the past three weeks that I've been dieting, I've cut down a ton because I'm no longer drinking fraps and other junk *kitten* every day and it hasn't felt like that much of a burden. Has anyone else gone sugar-free entirely? What effects have you noticed? The only thing now I feel like would affect me is the fact that I would have to cut fruits out which is rather disappointing.
Eliminating fruit and vegetables seems like a rather bad idea...
So what's wrong with something being "essentially sugar"?
And yet I lost weight easily and quickly while still eating about 2 pieces of fruit a day ... plus things like nutalla and honey on toast.1
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