Cutting Sugar From my Diet entirely
Replies
-
-
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear you have cancer.
Surely, being in that position, you can understand that not all cancer is the same.
I'm going to try to tread kindly here, but frankly, I find your post here offensive. Assuming that because people don't want to have this discussion that they are just blind sheeple is quite the leap of logic.
Each case is individual and every person has to deal with their own disease in their own way, researching dietary and lifestyle changes and discussing them with their doctor on their own with the particular type of cancer they have factoring into their ultimate choices/options.
The debate forum isn't the place to discuss this. It's all too individuals depending on what's going on with each person who might be facing a cancer diagnosis to get into, and having a discussion about it would really be pointless.14 -
Cutting out added sugar is a great idea, but that doesn't mean you have to cut out fruit, just work on getting the sugar added to processed foods cut down and that will improve your health.1
-
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear you have cancer.
Surely, being in that position, you can understand that not all cancer is the same.
I'm going to try to tread kindly here, but frankly, I find your post here offensive. Assuming that because people don't want to have this discussion that they are just blind sheeple is quite the leap of logic.
Each case is individual and every person has to deal with their own disease in their own way, researching dietary and lifestyle changes and discussing them with their doctor on their own with the particular type of cancer they have factoring into their ultimate choices/options.
The debate forum isn't the place to discuss this. It's all too individuals depending on what's going on with each person who might be facing a cancer diagnosis to get into, and having a discussion about it would really be pointless.
I would agree. I also cringe a little at the suggestion that doctors know there are diet changes you can make to fight cancer, but "are unable to suggest it" because it's not the official protocol. Oncologists live and die with their patients, and many have non-patient family and friends who battle cancer, and the idea that they are keeping secrets that could prolong or save lives is absurd. Besides, many doctors discuss or prescribe off-label treatment options. If there was any reasonable proof that eliminating sugar or carbs could aid the fight against cancer, many doctors would be suggesting it at the least.9 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear you have cancer.
Surely, being in that position, you can understand that not all cancer is the same.
I'm going to try to tread kindly here, but frankly, I find your post here offensive. Assuming that because people don't want to have this discussion that they are just blind sheeple is quite the leap of logic.
Each case is individual and every person has to deal with their own disease in their own way, researching dietary and lifestyle changes and discussing them with their doctor on their own with the particular type of cancer they have factoring into their ultimate choices/options.
The debate forum isn't the place to discuss this. It's all too individuals depending on what's going on with each person who might be facing a cancer diagnosis to get into, and having a discussion about it would really be pointless.
I would agree. I also cringe a little at the suggestion that doctors know there are diet changes you can make to fight cancer, but "are unable to suggest it" because it's not the official protocol. Oncologists live and die with their patients, and many have non-patient family and friends who battle cancer, and the idea that they are keeping secrets that could prolong or save lives is absurd. Besides, many doctors discuss or prescribe off-label treatment options. If there was any reasonable proof that eliminating sugar or carbs could aid the fight against cancer, many doctors would be suggesting it at the least.
This. My mom does end-of-life care and it's brutal to spend time with the dying and their families. Anyone who knows people who work in professions like this would understand that there isn't a collection of easy life-saving secrets that medical professionals are just hiding from us.16 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear that you have cancer, and certainly support your doing research, challenging your medical team if that's needful, and adopting complementary therapies as you see fit.
Even so, speaking as a (stage III) cancer survivor myself, I wouldn't encourage this as a discussion topic on MFP. Yes, some valid and useful information might come out. But it would be a tiny light mired in a vast swamp of prejudice, pseudo-science, speculation by ignorant amateurs, and worse.
It's bad enough seeing folks misled here about diet and exercise. Up the stakes to truly life-threatening diseases that are not the main subject matter of this site - so that there are few authoritative speakers to help sort things out?
Just no.14 -
I'm brand new to this and do not want to start any arguments. I am type 2 diabetic male 36 years old. I want to cut out sugar, eat about 15% protein 40% carbs and 45% fat. I aim to do this with a meal replacement shake for breakfast, meat and salad lunch, fish and veg for dinner and berries and apples snacks. Cream instead of milk in cooking and avoid veg like parsnips and fruit like oranges. Cutting out alcohol is big for me . I was drinking 3 pints of lager a night. My ideas have come from Diabetes Cookbook by Vickie De Beer and Kath Megaw. I also have I quit Sugar books by Sarah Wilson, reading really helps me. Thank you!0
-
edwardlewis5642 wrote: »I'm brand new to this and do not want to start any arguments. I am type 2 diabetic male 36 years old. I want to cut out sugar, eat about 15% protein 40% carbs and 45% fat. I aim to do this with a meal replacement shake for breakfast, meat and salad lunch, fish and veg for dinner and berries and apples snacks. Cream instead of milk in cooking and avoid veg like parsnips and fruit like oranges. Cutting out alcohol is big for me . I was drinking 3 pints of lager a night. My ideas have come from Diabetes Cookbook by Vickie De Beer and Kath Megaw. I also have I quit Sugar books by Sarah Wilson, reading really helps me. Thank you!
Play around with your macros to find out what satisfies you the most. I am also T2Dm and I settled on 35% protein, 35% carbs, and 30% fat. I was able to reduce my glucose numbers to the point where I was off medication within 6 months of diagnosis and my A1C has stayed around 5.0-5.3 ever since. I do not limit sugars, I just make sure my total carbs are no more than 160 grams per day which is the number my Dr. (a Certified Diabetic Educator) recommended.
Each person is different and each person needs to find the way that works for them to manage the disease balanced with enjoying your food. You have a starting point but don't be afraid to tweak it if it isn't ideal for you.
1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear you have cancer.
Surely, being in that position, you can understand that not all cancer is the same.
I'm going to try to tread kindly here, but frankly, I find your post here offensive. Assuming that because people don't want to have this discussion that they are just blind sheeple is quite the leap of logic.
Each case is individual and every person has to deal with their own disease in their own way, researching dietary and lifestyle changes and discussing them with their doctor on their own with the particular type of cancer they have factoring into their ultimate choices/options.
The debate forum isn't the place to discuss this. It's all too individuals depending on what's going on with each person who might be facing a cancer diagnosis to get into, and having a discussion about it would really be pointless.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear you have cancer.
Surely, being in that position, you can understand that not all cancer is the same.
I'm going to try to tread kindly here, but frankly, I find your post here offensive. Assuming that because people don't want to have this discussion that they are just blind sheeple is quite the leap of logic.
Each case is individual and every person has to deal with their own disease in their own way, researching dietary and lifestyle changes and discussing them with their doctor on their own with the particular type of cancer they have factoring into their ultimate choices/options.
The debate forum isn't the place to discuss this. It's all too individuals depending on what's going on with each person who might be facing a cancer diagnosis to get into, and having a discussion about it would really be pointless.
I would agree. I also cringe a little at the suggestion that doctors know there are diet changes you can make to fight cancer, but "are unable to suggest it" because it's not the official protocol. Oncologists live and die with their patients, and many have non-patient family and friends who battle cancer, and the idea that they are keeping secrets that could prolong or save lives is absurd. Besides, many doctors discuss or prescribe off-label treatment options. If there was any reasonable proof that eliminating sugar or carbs could aid the fight against cancer, many doctors would be suggesting it at the least.livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear that you have cancer, and certainly support your doing research, challenging your medical team if that's needful, and adopting complementary therapies as you see fit.
Even so, speaking as a (stage III) cancer survivor myself, I wouldn't encourage this as a discussion topic on MFP. Yes, some valid and useful information might come out. But it would be a tiny light mired in a vast swamp of prejudice, pseudo-science, speculation by ignorant amateurs, and worse.
It's bad enough seeing folks misled here about diet and exercise. Up the stakes to truly life-threatening diseases that are not the main subject matter of this site - so that there are few authoritative speakers to help sort things out?
Just no.
I'm not starting this discussion in the debate section. I tend to find my health informaion elsewhere, but I though it might be interesting as a topic to discuss. People could hear others idea and maybe find an idea that helps - especially those who do not choose to look into treatment themselves, and many don't. Not that I would call them "sheeple". That's quite a leap too. Many people do not research how to improve their health. My guess is most do not. And I am sure many people are not aware of the differing treatment options available.
And I at no time said that going low carb is "the" treatment option. I said dietary changes may help treatment. Those changes will be dependent on a person's situation.
I saw a quote the other day. It was something along the lines of 'knowledge is not power, power is what you do with that knowledge." I would hope that people do not blindly follow whatever they see on the internet. Avoiding discussion because of that worry seems wrong to me. JMO
Anyway, bowing out here. Not starting a discussion on possible dietary improvements when dealing with cancer.2 -
I know of a cancer patient whose doctor told him he "could eat whatever he wanted" after he went through treatment. For patients who either don't have much knowledge of nutrition or don't care that much about what they eat, IMO I would consider that dangerous advice. I don't think the doctor was intentionally trying to mislead him, but there were certainly some missing pieces when it comes to dietary advice.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear you have cancer.
Surely, being in that position, you can understand that not all cancer is the same.
I'm going to try to tread kindly here, but frankly, I find your post here offensive. Assuming that because people don't want to have this discussion that they are just blind sheeple is quite the leap of logic.
Each case is individual and every person has to deal with their own disease in their own way, researching dietary and lifestyle changes and discussing them with their doctor on their own with the particular type of cancer they have factoring into their ultimate choices/options.
The debate forum isn't the place to discuss this. It's all too individuals depending on what's going on with each person who might be facing a cancer diagnosis to get into, and having a discussion about it would really be pointless.
I would agree. I also cringe a little at the suggestion that doctors know there are diet changes you can make to fight cancer, but "are unable to suggest it" because it's not the official protocol. Oncologists live and die with their patients, and many have non-patient family and friends who battle cancer, and the idea that they are keeping secrets that could prolong or save lives is absurd. Besides, many doctors discuss or prescribe off-label treatment options. If there was any reasonable proof that eliminating sugar or carbs could aid the fight against cancer, many doctors would be suggesting it at the least.
FWIW, that particular cancer patient did have his cancer return not long after his first treatment.
0 -
This got real ugly real fast.0
-
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I know of a cancer patient whose doctor told him he "could eat whatever he wanted" after he went through treatment. For patients who either don't have much knowledge of nutrition or don't care that much about what they eat, IMO I would consider that dangerous advice. I don't think the doctor was intentionally trying to mislead him, but there were certainly some missing pieces when it comes to dietary advice.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear you have cancer.
Surely, being in that position, you can understand that not all cancer is the same.
I'm going to try to tread kindly here, but frankly, I find your post here offensive. Assuming that because people don't want to have this discussion that they are just blind sheeple is quite the leap of logic.
Each case is individual and every person has to deal with their own disease in their own way, researching dietary and lifestyle changes and discussing them with their doctor on their own with the particular type of cancer they have factoring into their ultimate choices/options.
The debate forum isn't the place to discuss this. It's all too individuals depending on what's going on with each person who might be facing a cancer diagnosis to get into, and having a discussion about it would really be pointless.
I would agree. I also cringe a little at the suggestion that doctors know there are diet changes you can make to fight cancer, but "are unable to suggest it" because it's not the official protocol. Oncologists live and die with their patients, and many have non-patient family and friends who battle cancer, and the idea that they are keeping secrets that could prolong or save lives is absurd. Besides, many doctors discuss or prescribe off-label treatment options. If there was any reasonable proof that eliminating sugar or carbs could aid the fight against cancer, many doctors would be suggesting it at the least.
FWIW, that particular cancer patient did have his cancer return not long after his first treatment.
FWIW, there's nothing beyond correlation studies with any dietary approach wrt cancer, so a doctor telling a patient to eat whatever they want is as valid as a doctor telling a patient to cram in as many fruits and vegetables as possible or a doctor telling a patient to go keto.
The fact of the matter is that for a lot of cancer patients (thinking of my mom's experience), food is a difficult subject because chemo is HELL on the appetite, and just keeping anything down is a major victory.
So honestly, throwing your story out there about how the cancer reoccurred because the person ate "whatever" is a prime example of WHY this discussion doesn't belong on these boards.
"Cancer" is a singular word encompassing a breadth of experiences so diverse that grouping them together and trying to talk about them as if they're all the same is ridiculous.14 -
I did not say that his cancer reoccurred because of his diet. But I think it's fair to say that for a lot of people out there who don't care much about their diet, that advice could certainly translate to a patient eating nothing but junk food. That's not to say a doctor would ever recommend that, but if I as a patient don't take much regard about nutrition, then I can take that statement and just eat however I want.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I know of a cancer patient whose doctor told him he "could eat whatever he wanted" after he went through treatment. For patients who either don't have much knowledge of nutrition or don't care that much about what they eat, IMO I would consider that dangerous advice. I don't think the doctor was intentionally trying to mislead him, but there were certainly some missing pieces when it comes to dietary advice.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear you have cancer.
Surely, being in that position, you can understand that not all cancer is the same.
I'm going to try to tread kindly here, but frankly, I find your post here offensive. Assuming that because people don't want to have this discussion that they are just blind sheeple is quite the leap of logic.
Each case is individual and every person has to deal with their own disease in their own way, researching dietary and lifestyle changes and discussing them with their doctor on their own with the particular type of cancer they have factoring into their ultimate choices/options.
The debate forum isn't the place to discuss this. It's all too individuals depending on what's going on with each person who might be facing a cancer diagnosis to get into, and having a discussion about it would really be pointless.
I would agree. I also cringe a little at the suggestion that doctors know there are diet changes you can make to fight cancer, but "are unable to suggest it" because it's not the official protocol. Oncologists live and die with their patients, and many have non-patient family and friends who battle cancer, and the idea that they are keeping secrets that could prolong or save lives is absurd. Besides, many doctors discuss or prescribe off-label treatment options. If there was any reasonable proof that eliminating sugar or carbs could aid the fight against cancer, many doctors would be suggesting it at the least.
FWIW, that particular cancer patient did have his cancer return not long after his first treatment.
FWIW, there's nothing beyond correlation studies with any dietary approach wrt cancer, so a doctor telling a patient to eat whatever they want is as valid as a doctor telling a patient to cram in as many fruits and vegetables as possible or a doctor telling a patient to go keto.
The fact of the matter is that for a lot of cancer patients (thinking of my mom's experience), food is a difficult subject because chemo is HELL on the appetite, and just keeping anything down is a major victory.
So honestly, throwing your story out there about how the cancer reoccurred because the person ate "whatever" is a prime example of WHY this discussion doesn't belong on these boards.
"Cancer" is a singular word encompassing a breadth of experiences so diverse that grouping them together and trying to talk about them as if they're all the same is ridiculous.
0 -
@nvmomketo - Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I think - I hope - that what people mean when they say that treatment decisions should be between a person and their doctor isn't that the patient should unquestioningly do what the doctor says, but that the doctor and the patient are the ones who know the most about the case - the doctor (hopefully) knows how the disease works and what the current research shows, and the patient (hopefully) knows their own body and its responses, their tolerance for unpleasant side effects, and their life goals. Anybody else is going to be a less-well-informed part of the discussion.4
-
lynn_glenmont wrote: »ETA:
"Dr. Josh Axe, DNM, DC, CNS is a certified doctor of natural medicine, doctor of chiropractic and clinical nutritionist with a passion to help people get healthy by using food as medicine."
https://draxe.com/about-dr-josh-axe/
In other words, another quack with books/products to sell. A naturopath isn't an MD, and a clinical nutritionist isn't a registered dietician. And anybody who claims that a ketogenic diet can cure cancer is a quack of the highest order IMO.
I wouldn't go to a podiatrist for a vasectomy, and I wouldn't go to a chiropractor for diet advice. Especially a chiropractor who's also a naturopath making unsubstantiated claims about how diets relate to your health.
ETA: Here's a bit of what actual, real science (not naturopathic/chiropractic woo) has to say about the role of keto diets in cancer treatment:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28353094?dopt=Abstract
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28366810
[sarcasm font] Thanks for editing my post [/sarcasm font] to make it look as though I was offering his bio as some sort of proof of his credibility.1 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »You would have to live on just meat, fish and oil.
And multivitamins. Don't forget multivitamins. Because he'd be missing an awful lot of micronutrients in that diet too.
Sugar is a micronutrient??0 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »You would have to live on just meat, fish and oil.
And multivitamins. Don't forget multivitamins. Because he'd be missing an awful lot of micronutrients in that diet too.
Sugar is a micronutrient??
The OP was asking about out cutting out all foods with sugar, which would mean vegetables and fruits, among other things. There are a LOT of micronutrients in fruits and veg.5 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »You would have to live on just meat, fish and oil.
And multivitamins. Don't forget multivitamins. Because he'd be missing an awful lot of micronutrients in that diet too.
Sugar is a micronutrient??
I'm not sure where you got that from, the discussion was pretty straight forward.4 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »You would have to live on just meat, fish and oil.
And multivitamins. Don't forget multivitamins. Because he'd be missing an awful lot of micronutrients in that diet too.
Sugar is a micronutrient??
Fruits, vegetables, dairy, nuts, grains have sugar. Many micronutrients come packaged with sugar. Cutting sugar from the diet entirely pretty much means living on animal flesh and oils.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »ETA:
"Dr. Josh Axe, DNM, DC, CNS is a certified doctor of natural medicine, doctor of chiropractic and clinical nutritionist with a passion to help people get healthy by using food as medicine."
https://draxe.com/about-dr-josh-axe/
In other words, another quack with books/products to sell. A naturopath isn't an MD, and a clinical nutritionist isn't a registered dietician. And anybody who claims that a ketogenic diet can cure cancer is a quack of the highest order IMO.
I wouldn't go to a podiatrist for a vasectomy, and I wouldn't go to a chiropractor for diet advice. Especially a chiropractor who's also a naturopath making unsubstantiated claims about how diets relate to your health.
ETA: Here's a bit of what actual, real science (not naturopathic/chiropractic woo) has to say about the role of keto diets in cancer treatment:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28353094?dopt=Abstract
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28366810
[sarcasm font] Thanks for editing my post [/sarcasm font] to make it look as though I was offering his bio as some sort of proof of his credibility.
Not at all my intention. Sorry you took it as such.0 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »You would have to live on just meat, fish and oil.
And multivitamins. Don't forget multivitamins. Because he'd be missing an awful lot of micronutrients in that diet too.
Sugar is a micronutrient??
You don't understand that by cutting out all forms of sugar entirely from his diet, he would be missing out on many foods which provide essential micronutrients?3 -
clicketykeys wrote: »- Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I think - I hope - that what people mean when they say that treatment decisions should be between a person and their doctor isn't that the patient should unquestioningly do what the doctor says, but that the doctor and the patient are the ones who know the most about the case - the doctor (hopefully) knows how the disease works and what the current research shows, and the patient (hopefully) knows their own body and its responses, their tolerance for unpleasant side effects, and their life goals. Anybody else is going to be a less-well-informed part of the discussion.
Thanks.
And I hope you are right. 2 -
clicketykeys wrote: »@nvmomketo - Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I think - I hope - that what people mean when they say that treatment decisions should be between a person and their doctor isn't that the patient should unquestioningly do what the doctor says, but that the doctor and the patient are the ones who know the most about the case - the doctor (hopefully) knows how the disease works and what the current research shows, and the patient (hopefully) knows their own body and its responses, their tolerance for unpleasant side effects, and their life goals. Anybody else is going to be a less-well-informed part of the discussion.
Yes this.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I did not say that his cancer reoccurred because of his diet. But I think it's fair to say that for a lot of people out there who don't care much about their diet, that advice could certainly translate to a patient eating nothing but junk food. That's not to say a doctor would ever recommend that, but if I as a patient don't take much regard about nutrition, then I can take that statement and just eat however I want.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I know of a cancer patient whose doctor told him he "could eat whatever he wanted" after he went through treatment. For patients who either don't have much knowledge of nutrition or don't care that much about what they eat, IMO I would consider that dangerous advice. I don't think the doctor was intentionally trying to mislead him, but there were certainly some missing pieces when it comes to dietary advice.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear you have cancer.
Surely, being in that position, you can understand that not all cancer is the same.
I'm going to try to tread kindly here, but frankly, I find your post here offensive. Assuming that because people don't want to have this discussion that they are just blind sheeple is quite the leap of logic.
Each case is individual and every person has to deal with their own disease in their own way, researching dietary and lifestyle changes and discussing them with their doctor on their own with the particular type of cancer they have factoring into their ultimate choices/options.
The debate forum isn't the place to discuss this. It's all too individuals depending on what's going on with each person who might be facing a cancer diagnosis to get into, and having a discussion about it would really be pointless.
I would agree. I also cringe a little at the suggestion that doctors know there are diet changes you can make to fight cancer, but "are unable to suggest it" because it's not the official protocol. Oncologists live and die with their patients, and many have non-patient family and friends who battle cancer, and the idea that they are keeping secrets that could prolong or save lives is absurd. Besides, many doctors discuss or prescribe off-label treatment options. If there was any reasonable proof that eliminating sugar or carbs could aid the fight against cancer, many doctors would be suggesting it at the least.
FWIW, that particular cancer patient did have his cancer return not long after his first treatment.
FWIW, there's nothing beyond correlation studies with any dietary approach wrt cancer, so a doctor telling a patient to eat whatever they want is as valid as a doctor telling a patient to cram in as many fruits and vegetables as possible or a doctor telling a patient to go keto.
The fact of the matter is that for a lot of cancer patients (thinking of my mom's experience), food is a difficult subject because chemo is HELL on the appetite, and just keeping anything down is a major victory.
So honestly, throwing your story out there about how the cancer reoccurred because the person ate "whatever" is a prime example of WHY this discussion doesn't belong on these boards.
"Cancer" is a singular word encompassing a breadth of experiences so diverse that grouping them together and trying to talk about them as if they're all the same is ridiculous.
Ah yes, "eat what you want = only junk food". Obviously.6 -
clicketykeys wrote: »@nvmomketo - Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I think - I hope - that what people mean when they say that treatment decisions should be between a person and their doctor isn't that the patient should unquestioningly do what the doctor says, but that the doctor and the patient are the ones who know the most about the case - the doctor (hopefully) knows how the disease works and what the current research shows, and the patient (hopefully) knows their own body and its responses, their tolerance for unpleasant side effects, and their life goals. Anybody else is going to be a less-well-informed part of the discussion.
Yes, exactly this.0 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »"Weight loss is a huge benefit of ketogenic diets due to lowered insulin levels and the body’s ability to burn stored fat. I’ve personally found that the classic ketogenic diet is quite possibly the best diet for weight loss, especially considering how quickly it usually works.
Following a ketogenic diet may also help prevent and even kill cancer cells. There are several medical studies — such as two conducted by the Department of Radiation Oncology at the Holden Comprehensive Cancer Center for the University of Iowa, and the National Institutes of Health’s National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, for example— that show the ketogenic diet is an effective treatment for cancer and other serious health problems.
A modified ketogenic diet (what most people think of as a moderately low-carb diet) can be beneficial for most relatively healthy adults who are at an increased risk for metabolic syndrome, including those struggling with losing weight or controlling levels of blood sugar (glucose). Studies show that high-fat diets like the ketogenic diet also do not typically raise cholesterol and may actually reduce cardiovascular disease risk factors, especially in those who are obese.
Additionally ketogenic diets have been used to treat and even help reverse cognitive impairments, including Alzheimer’s symptoms."
Bull. Poop.7 -
clicketykeys wrote: »@nvmomketo - Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I think - I hope - that what people mean when they say that treatment decisions should be between a person and their doctor isn't that the patient should unquestioningly do what the doctor says, but that the doctor and the patient are the ones who know the most about the case - the doctor (hopefully) knows how the disease works and what the current research shows, and the patient (hopefully) knows their own body and its responses, their tolerance for unpleasant side effects, and their life goals. Anybody else is going to be a less-well-informed part of the discussion.
Yes, of course. I would ask my doctor if there were things I could be doing, and knowing me I'd research everything possible (I did this with my mother's illness) and bring ideas/ask questions of my doctor (it frustrates me that my parents seem to have trouble asking necessary questions), but if I did not have trust in my doctor and treatment team I hope I'd change doctors and having trust I'd not do things contrary to what was recommended or go to the internet (and specifically like MFP) for information contrary to the doctor's on what to do (ideas, yeah, things to take back and discuss, but sometimes it seems that the internet is used for a second opinion, and there are other doctors for that). Especially since cancers are not all the same, and especially since to me the anti physician bias that sometimes comes up on discussions like the one I imagine on MFP would not be particularly helpful. If I were to seek out an internet discussion, I think it would be more in something like a support group.
I have a friend who has stage 4 ovarian cancer (terrible stats, but she is actually doing hearteningly well with the treatment so far) who has a specific diet she's following (from her treatment team), but I would not assume that is what everyone with cancer should be following, and the issue with chemo and just being able to get some nutrients is a real one, of course.1 -
If the ketogenic cured and or prevented cancer it would be breaking news worldwide, and be on the cover of every newspaper and magazine...4
-
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I know of a cancer patient whose doctor told him he "could eat whatever he wanted" after he went through treatment. For patients who either don't have much knowledge of nutrition or don't care that much about what they eat, IMO I would consider that dangerous advice. I don't think the doctor was intentionally trying to mislead him, but there were certainly some missing pieces when it comes to dietary advice.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
Agreed.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Dietary changes for cancer treatment would be an interesting topic for the debate section...
No, it really wouldn't. Actually, any "food as medicine" subject is best left between someone and their doctor. Any other discussion devolves into something that has overtones caught between the fervency of belief on one hand and the ugliness of victim blaming on the other and is best left never having happened.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »The fact that people will even mention cancer and food as treatment concerns me.
Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
Every case in very different and not eating fruit is never the treatment.lemurcat12 wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Unless you're an oncologist with that persons file in front of you, you should not be providing "advice"
So much this.
Huh. These responses really surprised me. I would think people would want to be aware of possible dietary measures that they could take to help beat, or avoid, cancer. Try to improve your odds of a good recovery. Doctors don't know it all and they are often unable to suggest things that may help if it has not been officially approved. I think completely trusting your doctor with your life can be risky. People often benefit by taking some responsibility for their health.
I have a very treatable cancer right now but I still went searching for possible lifestyle changes that I could implement to help myself - get a bit of an advantage. Something to supplement treatment and make recurrence less likely. That included diet.
I don't mean to try radically dangerous diets, or trying things your doctor specifically said no to. Dietary treatments would compliment other treatments.
Each to their own.
I'm sorry to hear you have cancer.
Surely, being in that position, you can understand that not all cancer is the same.
I'm going to try to tread kindly here, but frankly, I find your post here offensive. Assuming that because people don't want to have this discussion that they are just blind sheeple is quite the leap of logic.
Each case is individual and every person has to deal with their own disease in their own way, researching dietary and lifestyle changes and discussing them with their doctor on their own with the particular type of cancer they have factoring into their ultimate choices/options.
The debate forum isn't the place to discuss this. It's all too individuals depending on what's going on with each person who might be facing a cancer diagnosis to get into, and having a discussion about it would really be pointless.
I would agree. I also cringe a little at the suggestion that doctors know there are diet changes you can make to fight cancer, but "are unable to suggest it" because it's not the official protocol. Oncologists live and die with their patients, and many have non-patient family and friends who battle cancer, and the idea that they are keeping secrets that could prolong or save lives is absurd. Besides, many doctors discuss or prescribe off-label treatment options. If there was any reasonable proof that eliminating sugar or carbs could aid the fight against cancer, many doctors would be suggesting it at the least.
FWIW, that particular cancer patient did have his cancer return not long after his first treatment.
I survived stage III (advanced) breast cancer. I watched my mother die in a residential hospice from stage IV breast cancer. I cared for my husband at home, as he died from terminal esophageal cancer at age 45. I say this not to seek sympathy, but to illustrate that I have some practical experience. Still, I'm an ignorant amateur.
Some things I do know:- For some patients, appetite is severely suppressed, and the paramount nutritional goal is simply to get them to consume any calories they'll accept, to keep them off the slippery slope toward cachexia for as long as possible. Their doctor will tell them to eat "whatever they want".
- At certain stages of certain cancers, the die is already cast. Nothing will change the terminal diagnosis. To hector these people to improve their way of eating simply increases their stress level and further degrades the quality of their remaining life. Their doctor will tell them to eat "whatever they want".
- For some patients during chemotherapy or radiation treatments, food may become physically difficult to consume due to nausea/vomiting, mouth sores, thrush, metallic taste, opiate-induced constipation, severe heartburn, etc. Unless there's a clear medical benefit in the short run for some specific diet, their doctor may well tell them to eat "whatever they want", or at least whatever they can tolerate.
- For a lucky percentage of patients, conventional good nutrition or a speciaized diet may be helpful (though the benefit is often more assumed than proven). In these cases, a good doctor is likely to provide printed information, web references, or referral to an RD. Even so, foods we'd consider healthy may be restricted. (For example, I was told not to eat any raw fruit or vegetable, unless it was one that could be peeled, during 6 months of chemotherapy. This is because the bacterial load of things like salads may overwhelm a compromised immune system.)
I don't know much, but I know enough to recognize that it would be ignorant of me to opine that a doctor is giving "dangerous advice" in a case I know little about.
This is way off topic. OP, I apologize to you for that. I thought about this overnight, and decided I just couldn't let it lie.29
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions