June 2017 Running Challenge

Options
1…5960626465…118

Replies

  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
    Options
    VydorScope wrote: »
    lporter229 wrote: »
    @VydorScope - It certainly is easy to get confused in all of the numbers. So many chiefs out there with different definitions of training zones and what not. At the end of the day, they all work out to be pretty close. I like to use plans that are centered around lactate threshold rather than max heart rate, just because it is easier to estimate, IMO. If you ran a 10K in 51 minutes and your average HR was 162, that is probably pretty close to your LT. Did you feel like you could sustain that pace for maybe another 9-10 minutes or were you completely spent? If you were spent, you LT may be a little closer to 160. Otherwise, 162 might be a good estimate. The important thing is that none of this has to be exact. It's more about getting an idea of where you should be training and trying to hit it rather than missing the target completely.

    When I first started with 80/20 Running I was 42 years old. I did the treadmill LT test in the book and determined my LT to be around 160. That set my easy zone to 138 max. Hitting 138 was HARD. Very hard. Especially if you train on hills, because it's nearly impossible to maintain a steady HR, so that makes getting an avg HR in a zone that much harder. I really had to work at slowing down. But the thing is, it didn't take long running at this slow pace until I was finding that my previous pace was now achievable while staying in this lower HR zone. You make progress really quickly. If you commit to it, you will be surprised by the results.

    Just started reading the 80/20 book last night. Read the intro and chp1. So pretty much just the sales pitch so far. Plan to skip the few chapters where he does nothing by present proof and jump to instructions. For me, the proof will be in the real world test, with my sample size of 1. :)

    So 138/160 = 86% - are you basically using lactate threshold as your max heart rate?

    Not max HR. His zones are set up based on % of LT, not max HR. It allows you to avoid the pain of trying to find your actual max heart rate, as this is a difficult test and estimated calculations can be way off. If you do the test to estimate your lactate threshold, you are likely to get closer to the mark with a lot less effort. The speed workouts (intervals) that his plans have you doing will have you running over 100% of lactate threshold. FWIW, as your fitness increases, the gap between your max HR and your LT HR will decrease. You will want to re-evaluate your LT HR every so often. I usually try and do it once a year or so. I have found the Daniels Tables (I think somebody posted a link somewhere above) to be surprisingly accurate at estimating LT HR based on race paces.
  • WhatMeRunning
    WhatMeRunning Posts: 3,538 Member
    edited June 2017
    Options
    @lporter229 - I am 45 now, was 42 when I started running. Up until last summer before my stress fracture I had been slowly getting faster and faster, targeting new PR's, similar to what you just described. This year though, I am SO much slower than before, despite building up a level of endurance that honestly impresses me. I am a more durable runner this year than last, I have no doubt about that. In my case, it's the weight slowing me down and the calculators all show me running at new PR paces without the added weight. But I am so slow I can't even hit the cutoff times for a lot of half marathons! That is a mental struggle.

    One thing I have noticed this year at 45 that I did not notice in prior years is that simply working on my base and building up endurance has not made much increase in my pace at all. Again, if I lost the weight I would be faster, but even then the gains are not there. It all comes down to weight, and is no longer about just running far and slowly getting faster.

    So I am feeling this plateau.

    It is what has driven me to work on my high end cardio and starting to work on these sprint intervals and focusing on 5k's at the moment. This is an area I have not focused on in this way before, thus it stands to reason that I have room for gains here. These gains at shorter distances can translate out to further distances, but first I have to get faster at these shorter distances. I am seeing gains in just this first couple weeks already, so I am hopeful.

    It's possible that once I get any gains from this, and then after several weeks going back to base building to translate all of that effort out to longer mileage and faster paces on those longer, slower runs, that I might just see myself with very little to no gain. I might also see some gains but never again see such gains in the future because part of aging is slowing down.

    I may seem young to many at 45, and I am. But this is when this stuff first noticeably hits people is right here, at this age. The fact that I'm coming back from injury and losing weight is probably the only reason I will see temporary gains, but the big question is, will I ever beat my half marathon PR of 2:17 again? There is a chance I might not, and I have to be ready to accept that.

    I know @Elise4270 wiped out her PR's in Garmin to start over. I have not done that yet as I still wish to beat those times someday. If I get back down to last years weight at my current level of fitness which is higher than my fitness last year, but still can't beat that time, then I know I had an age-adjusted peak when I got that PR and will let go of it, perhaps then wiping out my old PR's and just work within the new numbers.

    Use it or lose it. Even if I continue to get slower, I hope to keep myself moving based on that mantra. If I give up, I am giving up a lot more than just running. This mantra is also making me rethink fitness outside of my "long distance running". You already do swimming and other things. This is great! You will be doing those things while some of your peers will say they are too old to do that any more. RUBBISH! You do it! I love running some sprints right now out on that track knowing I am getting some weird looks from people wondering why some middle-aged guy is doing sprints. Aren't I too old for that? :smile: Well, I'm doing it. You tell me how I can be too old for that when I am actually out there doing it.

    In fact, perhaps if I think I'm too old for anything I should just do it. In regards to fitness and health, that is. I'm not going to try and drink a 21 year old under the table or anything stupid like that. I just mean, if I avoid doing an activity that is supposed to build and maintain fitness because I feel too old to do it, it's not that I'm too old. It's because I gave up. and whatever systems/muscles/joints/etc receive benefit from that activity will not get those benefits and age.
  • skippygirlsmom
    skippygirlsmom Posts: 4,433 Member
    Options
    @whatmerunning I hate to admit I got lost the first time I ran here by work, I worked in this park for like 7 years at the time. Here is a overview - scary huh? ha ha I actually have a great sense of direction.

    1hjwo8b399aq.jpg

    I've never eaten while running, but Doug, who used to post here stopped during a HM or full that he was pacing at McDonald's guess he was hungry :smiley:

    Didn't run this morning - have my 5K tonight.

  • skippygirlsmom
    skippygirlsmom Posts: 4,433 Member
    Options
    @MNLittleFinn best of luck tomorrow, I can't wait to hear all about it!!! I'll give you all the cliche sayings "the hays in the barn" "trust your training" "you got this"

    xx4salijttcs.jpg

  • RespectTheKitty
    RespectTheKitty Posts: 1,667 Member
    Options
    @MNLittleFinn I'll be thinking about you tomorrow. No matter what happens, you are an amazing runner. Now go own that 26.2!
  • AmyOutOfControl
    AmyOutOfControl Posts: 1,425 Member
    Options
    6/1 = Gym day; 3 miles on the treadmill and 40 minutes of strength training
    6/2 = 6 miles
    6/3 = 6 miles & strength training
    6/4 = 13.9 miles (run/walk)
    6/5 = 8.1 miles & strength training
    6/6 = rest day
    6/7 = 8 miles (with 6 - 5 minute speed intervals)
    6/8 = 5.5 miles
    6/9 = 6 miles
    6/10 = Hatha yoga class
    6/11 = 10 miles (run/walk)
    6/12 = 4 miles & strength training
    6/13 = Vinyasa yoga class
    6/14 = 7.5 miles
    6/15 = 5.5 miles
    6/16 = 6 miles & strength training

    (June miles to date) 89.5/150 (June goal miles)

    Upcoming 2017 Races:
    6/17 = Verns no Frills 5K
    10/28 = Hill Country Halloween Half Marathon
    12/10 = BCS Half Marathon

  • SpiritHippo
    SpiritHippo Posts: 53 Member
    Options
    Ohhim wrote: »
    Just a mile of recovery off the bike yesterday, then got in 10 miles with a buddy this afternoon. Only 7 miles behind schedule for the month at the mid point (including pre-race taper and post race recovery) so not too worried about completing the challenge.


    6/1 - 2 miles
    6/3 - 3.5 miles
    6/4 - 13 miles (1:36 run @ IM Raleigh 70.3)
    6/6 - 3 miles
    6/7 - 7 miles
    6/8 - 3.5 miles (post ride)
    6/10 - 10 miles
    6/11 - 12 miles
    6/12 - 10 miles
    6/13 - 9 miles
    6/14 - 1 mile (post ride)
    6/15 - 10 miles

    Total: 83 miles
    Goal: 180 miles
    Remaining: 97 miles

    2017 Race Schedule:
    1/29 - Chilly Willy Duathlon (1:07:48 - 20:05 1st 5K/21:16 2nd 5K - 1st AG, 3rd Amateur)
    2/5 - Best Damn Race 1:50 pacer
    5/5 - Pittsburgh Marathon (withdrew at mile 16 - 1:32 split @ 13.1)
    6/4 - Ironman 70.3 Raleigh - 4:43/1:36 run - Qualified for Ironman 70.3 World Championships
    8/25 - Ironman Coeur D'Alene
    9/10 - Ironman 70.3 World Championships

    I'd like to hear more about the Ironman World Championships. It looks like Raleigh was your qualifier. What is the swimming, cycling, running breakdown for the championships? Are you currently training your swimming and cycling in addition to the 180 miles of running this month?
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    Options
    VydorScope wrote: »
    UGH- I am finding figuring out how to eat when some days I run 10, 15, or more miles, and other days I am stuck in meetings all day a real PITA. I am at my goal weight for the THIRD time and would like to stay this time, but ugh.

    I have that same issue, though I've been relaxing my food intake recently. I still log, but have not been restricting calories (still trying to remain low carb, though). As a result of not restricting, I'm over-eating calories every day - even on days when I run 10+ miles (my appetite is enormous). I've not seen as much gain as expected based on CICO calculations, but will have some extra fat to lose when I return to restricting calories next month.
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    edited June 2017
    Options
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    VydorScope wrote: »
    UGH- I am finding figuring out how to eat when some days I run 10, 15, or more miles, and other days I am stuck in meetings all day a real PITA. I am at my goal weight for the THIRD time and would like to stay this time, but ugh.

    I have that same issue, though I've been relaxing my food intake recently. I still log, but have not been restricting calories (still trying to remain low carb, though). As a result of not restricting, I'm over-eating calories every day - even on days when I run 10+ miles (my appetite is enormous). I've not seen as much gain as expected based on CICO calculations, but will have some extra fat to lose when I return to restricting calories next month.

    Limiting my carbs, fast foods and evening grazing has helped me so far. Remember you can have all the veggies you want. Stir-fry type meals seem ideal here. I talked with a co-worker that runs at lunch and he grabs steamer bags after his run. I'd probably have to chase that with a protein bar or shake not long after, but it's not a bad idea. Unless your coworkers fuss about the farty broccoli and cauliflower smell.
  • garygse
    garygse Posts: 896 Member
    Options
    @Elise4270 Darn, I would have totally met up with you for lunch, but it's a colleagues last day here so we're all going to Mi Cocina on the company credit card.
  • SpiritHippo
    SpiritHippo Posts: 53 Member
    Options
    shrcpr wrote: »
    @critterfull1220 and @need2move2, welcome! I'm new to the group, too. It's pretty awesome.

    @MNLittleFinn, sending good thoughts your way for tomorrow's race. I can't even imagine attempting a marathon. Looking forward to hearing about it!

    On a personal note, I hit a major milestone this morning - 6.27 miles! I can now run 10k! Average pace was 11:07 so a bit longer and a few seconds faster than my last run. B)

    Now I think I'd like to run a bit more often and maybe not so much every time. I'm wondering how often I should run the longer distance to keep the ability to do it? Once a week?

    (And, who am I kidding anyway? My finger is already hovering over that little Train 13.1 button on my app.)

    Happy Friday!

    Great work!! I'd like to eventually work up to a 10K so I'm extra excited for you!
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    Options
    Elise4270 wrote: »
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    VydorScope wrote: »
    UGH- I am finding figuring out how to eat when some days I run 10, 15, or more miles, and other days I am stuck in meetings all day a real PITA. I am at my goal weight for the THIRD time and would like to stay this time, but ugh.

    I have that same issue, though I've been relaxing my food intake recently. I still log, but have not been restricting calories (still trying to remain low carb, though). As a result of not restricting, I'm over-eating calories every day - even on days when I run 10+ miles (my appetite is enormous). I've not seen as much gain as expected based on CICO calculations, but will have some extra fat to lose when I return to restricting calories next month.

    Limiting my carbs, fast foods and evening grazing has helped me so far. Remember you can have all the veggies you want. Stir-fry type meals seem ideal here. I talked with a co-worker that runs at lunch and he grabs steamer bags after his run. I'd probably have to chase that with a protein bar or shake not long after, but it's not a bad idea. Unless your coworkers fuss about the farty broccoli and cauliflower smell.

    I tend to do much better with appetite control when eating no plants (except coffee) at all, but I switched this month to get my stomach used to eating veggies and nuts before a backpacking trip at the end of the month. I once ate 9 lbs. of lettuce in a single sitting, so not sure I can eat all the veggies I want.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    Options
    VydorScope wrote: »
    UGH- I am finding figuring out how to eat when some days I run 10, 15, or more miles, and other days I am stuck in meetings all day a real PITA. I am at my goal weight for the THIRD time and would like to stay this time, but ugh.

    Weight maintenance is a different ball game than weight loss. When you're trying to lose weight, close is good enough as long as you have a bias toward a calorie deficit. If your deficit is off the mark by 250 calories per day, you lose weight either a half pound slower or a half pound faster per week than target. You still get there.

    In maintenance, you target calories in balance. If you miss the mark by 250 calories per day on the average, you gain or lose a half pound per week. Over time, this becomes a problem.

    So what to do? I do a couple things. One is, I watch what the scale does and adjust my calorie allowance in the opposite direction of any weight trend I perceive. I ignore the MFP suggested calories for balance, and I ignore the calorie burn numbers. They just aren't accurate enough to eat to maintenance.

    Two, I maintain to a range. I don't feel bad as long as my standard dehydrated morning weight stays between 160 and 165, even though for 5 years I said my target was 162. (Now, given my racing performance, I'm experimenting with a target of 163. It makes a subtle difference in how I react to the scale numbers.)

    The wild card is, as I run more I see wider day to day fluctuations in weight. I don't understand all of them, but I know if I gain or lose 2 pounds from one morning to the next, that's not 2 pounds of fat. It may be 2 pounds of water and glycogen bound together; the pattern of gain/loss compared to running workouts suggests this is sometimes the case. It may be 2 pounds of more/less throughput from the digestive system. It may be a combination of hydration level and how much fiber I've eaten. Whatever. From a practical perspective, the higher day to day fluctuations simply mean it's harder to spot a small trend in weight change.

    I know what I do won't work for everyone. Other successful weight maintainers find systems that work for them, some of which would not work for me. You just have to find what will work for you.

    Good luck!

Categories