Paleo vs Plant based vs low calorie?

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  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,078 Member
    edited August 2017
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    For those who ask what I consider very active to mean? Well not doing a desk job, or if you gave a desk job then they also have some kind of commute which means they have to physically walk from A-B or walk during the day for work. On top of that they do physical exercise in their free time which could/not include steps.

    Personally I average 4500 steps if I don't go for a walk so most days I try and go in the evening after work (I finish at around 7pm) and do a circuit of around 35 minutes which takes my steps up to almost 10k.

    On top of that I use the gym in the mornings, doing weights 3 times a week and cardio on the other days (at least 2 days cardio in the gym on the machines - Xtrainer, Treadmill and rowing machine in my home gym, HeliumIsNoble).

    I am still quite inactive compared to a lot of people I know because of my job - for example I'm in a Fitbit friends group and last week I came 6th with 56,650 steps, my top 2 friends had 84,894 and 80,083. Those people also go to gym classes 2-3 days a week. One of them I have discussed diet/weight with extensively recently and she is currently eating 500 calories of food per day plus 2x protein shakes of 200 calories each = 900 total. She has lost around 16lbs in the last 6 months.

    The other 'very active' people are friends who have active jobs such as cleaning or waitressing and who also exercise by cycling, running and attending cardio based gym classes 2-3 times a week. At least one of those people only eats 2 small meals per day. She is extremely health conscious and has porridge for breakfast if she's training, a light meal such as a salad for lunch and skips dinner. Both those people are exactly my height and weigh 127 or 128lbs.

    If I had a more active job, fit in my daily 10k steps and used the gym I would expect to be burning off a lot more calories and of course could probably increase my calorie intake accordingly and possibly even lose weight without trying, but that isn't the case. If I wasn't sedentary most of the time then I wouldn't dream of eating a low calorie diet because I wouldn't have to but this is the reality so I have to accept it and if I want ot lose weight I have to eat less than many people would consider eating.
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,078 Member
    edited August 2017
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    Also Maxematics, if I was lighter than I am now with lean muscle and low body fat I know my body would work more efficiently and I could eat a lot more. I've heard of this happening and people even struggle to keep the weight on once their metabolism works better.

    Estherdragonbat - I'd say you're definitely very active. That's a lot of activity and I don't know what you do during the day for a job. If I did that there's no doubt I could eat a lot more than I can now!
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    Maxematics wrote: »
    JAT74 wrote: »
    There are days when I don't count (such as at the weekend) but my diet is really not vastly different to during the week. Most weekends I'll skip breakfast as I get up late, have a reasonably large lunch and often just a snack for dinner. At most I'm eating 1300-1500 calories, but even factoring that in as a maximum and working on 1000 maximum for the other days (which is more than the reality) that's still only around 1150 calories per day on average.

    Hmm, interesting.


    JAT74 wrote: »
    I have yet to meet a very active female who eats more than 1200-1500 calories a day.

    Also quite interesting. I'm very active. I workout daily and average 20K steps per day. I'm 5'3" and maintain 114 pounds on 2100 to 2400 calories per day, sometimes more than that when I get over 30K steps in a day. I don't understand how these "very active" women maintain on 1200 to 1500 calories when the recommended calories for toddlers are 1000 to 1400 calories per day. Are all of these women just lacking any muscle mass whatsoever? If they're very active what exactly are they doing besides walking and eating low calorie diets? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

    I would consider myself very active (workout six days a week, average 20k steps per day). I maintain around 110 and I eat about 2,220 calories a day. There is no way I could make it on 1,500 calories a day and I don't even have that much muscle.
  • estherdragonbat
    estherdragonbat Posts: 5,283 Member
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    JAT74 wrote: »
    Also Maxematics, if I was lighter than I am now with lean muscle and low body fat I know my body would work more efficiently and I could eat a lot more. I've heard of this happening and people even struggle to keep the weight on once their metabolism works better.

    Estherdragonbat - I'd say you're definitely very active. That's a lot of activity and I don't know what you do during the day for a job. If I did that there's no doubt I could eat a lot more than I can now!

    I'm a freelance editor working from home. Minus side: employment is pretty sporadic. Plus side: I've got the time to exercise.
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,078 Member
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    Janejellyroll, that's interesting. I looked it up and 20k steps a day could amount to a calorie burn of as much as 1000! That certainly explains why you get to eat a lot more and maintin such a low weight. If I could fit in an additional 10-15k step count on top of what I do already I'd be able to eat loads more too I'm sure. The same goes for Maxematics. I think that's what people don't factor in, being inactive/sedentary most of the time really means you pay the price as you're not buring anything off a lot of the time.

    Estherdragon, it's great working from home isn't it? Freelance not so much, I was also freelance until a year and a half ago. It's definitely a plus that you get time to exercise, me too but only because I have a gym in my garage as I don't get much free time!
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    JAT74 wrote: »
    Janejellyroll, that's interesting. I looked it up and 20k steps a day could amount to a calorie burn of as much as 1000! That certainly explains why you get to eat a lot more and maintin such a low weight. If I could fit in an additional 10-15k step count on top of what I do already I'd be able to eat loads more too I'm sure. The same goes for Maxematics. I think that's what people don't factor in, being inactive/sedentary most of the time really means you pay the price as you're not buring anything off a lot of the time.

    Estherdragon, it's great working from home isn't it? Freelance not so much, I was also freelance until a year and a half ago. It's definitely a plus that you get time to exercise, me too but only because I have a gym in my garage as I don't get much free time!

    Yep, it makes a huge difference. If I was sedentary, I would maintain on about 1,460 calories a day.
  • dopeysmelly
    dopeysmelly Posts: 1,390 Member
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    JAT74 wrote: »
    Janejellyroll, that's interesting. I looked it up and 20k steps a day could amount to a calorie burn of as much as 1000! That certainly explains why you get to eat a lot more and maintin such a low weight. If I could fit in an additional 10-15k step count on top of what I do already I'd be able to eat loads more too I'm sure. The same goes for Maxematics. I think that's what people don't factor in, being inactive/sedentary most of the time really means you pay the price as you're not buring anything off a lot of the time.

    Estherdragon, it's great working from home isn't it? Freelance not so much, I was also freelance until a year and a half ago. It's definitely a plus that you get time to exercise, me too but only because I have a gym in my garage as I don't get much free time!

    Yep, it makes a huge difference. If I was sedentary, I would maintain on about 1,460 calories a day.

    I'm not far off that too. I try to be as active as time allows so I average 15k steps a day and then add in a lot of activity at the weekends (bike rides and long walks) so can double the calories my body would need to maintain my weight. I get mid-week workouts in whenmy daughter swims.

    OP: I don't know how old you are, but age can make a difference here - it's totally unfair but it is what it is.
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,078 Member
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    Dopeysmelly, you're totally right. I should maybe try and do more but I feel like I'd make myself over tired if I try and get up earlier just to fit in more steps in the gym.

    I'm almost 43 so not young anymore and I know this is perhaps part of my problem. When I was younger and I had a reasonable amount of weight to lose it seemed to come off without me even trying but I was commuting to work so did a lot of walking to the train station and between train lines, then I had to walk to the office. My office was upstairs and there was no lift so I was forced to take the stairs a lot too, then I'd hit the gym for a class for an hour or hour and a half after work etc.

    Now I work from home but work from 9.30am-7pm and my lunch break is spent preparing lunch and eating it. I don't get many other breaks during the day so not many trips up/down stairs and as I'm not commuting I only exercise in the morning (for around 40 minutes) in the gym as well as doing a 35 minute walk in the evening as after that I have to be home to prepare dinner for my partner. As I don't have to walk to/from work or public transport even with the added exercise I'm lucky if I reach 10k steps most days and at weekends it's about the same or sometimes even less.

    I find it easier in winter because I walk around 15 or 20k each weekend day whereas now I can't leave the house much due to the heat. I also do longer walks in the evenings in winter or do an extra walk in the morning but I think the heat knocks it out of you and I don't have the energy in summer to get up earlier (I work in 32 degree heat in my home office lol).
  • reggosse1977
    reggosse1977 Posts: 4 Member
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    I worry about nutrition religions. The only clear thing that reduces body weight in ever study is calorie counting. Though the odd study pops up about other programs, they are rearly repeatable studies. And when they are there creating a calorie deficit in some way.

    I worry about all the food based religions floating around.
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,078 Member
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    Reggosse1977 I see where you're coming from but it's not about 'religions', more about what's good for the body, that's all. Of course a calorie is a calorie but just because you eat a certain number and can/can't lose weight by eating that amount it doesn't mean that the choices you are making are healthy.

    I remember when almost everyone I know followed Weight Watchers a few years ago because they could eat what they wanted as long as it fell within their points allowance. That to me doesn't make sense. Not only are you going to end up hungry (because generally people will choose the unhealthy option however small the portion) but also because it's not good for your health.

    I don't like any kind of extreme belief system, and that's why I was curious what others thought of Plant based, but some of it does make sense like cutting down on meat and eating more fruit and veg. The same goes for Paleo etc.

    Personally I do care about my health and want to do the best so I'm healthier in later life but weight loss is my current goal so I want to find a way of eating that incorporates both.
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
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    The doctor in that video spends all of his work time looking at the research. He does this for his non profit and makes nothing off of it or his book. If you want to do the research yourself, you would have to subscribe to all of the nutrition journals, or if you currently attend college it may be available for free. If you watch the video you can hear what he says about each study and then from there do your own research to find the study and read it in its entirety.

    so he gives his book away for free?
  • Katiebear_81
    Katiebear_81 Posts: 719 Member
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    JAT74 wrote: »
    Reggosse1977 I see where you're coming from but it's not about 'religions', more about what's good for the body, that's all. Of course a calorie is a calorie but just because you eat a certain number and can/can't lose weight by eating that amount it doesn't mean that the choices you are making are healthy.

    I remember when almost everyone I know followed Weight Watchers a few years ago because they could eat what they wanted as long as it fell within their points allowance. That to me doesn't make sense. Not only are you going to end up hungry (because generally people will choose the unhealthy option however small the portion) but also because it's not good for your health.

    I don't like any kind of extreme belief system, and that's why I was curious what others thought of Plant based, but some of it does make sense like cutting down on meat and eating more fruit and veg. The same goes for Paleo etc.

    Personally I do care about my health and want to do the best so I'm healthier in later life but weight loss is my current goal so I want to find a way of eating that incorporates both.

    This sentence is categorically untrue. While the new WW plan is a pile of hot garbage, the WW plan that everyone lost weight on was based on moderation and straight up calorie counting. It's not at all unhealthy. Sure - if a person decides to eat only high calorie, nutrient deficient food, it is not ideal and they will be hungry all the time. But if any person who eats a variety of foods from a variety of sources, it was a very good program that a lot of people had success on. There is nothing wrong with the health of the majority of people who follow a variety driven, moderate diet.

    The fact that you state that a moderate approach to diet and eating is "unhealthy" makes me think that you do have a certain "religious" thought process about food, whether you're willing to recognize it or not. Which is fine - it's fine to have those feelings and thoughts. It's not ok when you start to tell people that a moderate approach is "unhealthy", because for the vast majority of people... it is healthy.

    I was a hard core paleo believe for many years. I honestly felt amazing when I was following it and I was really quite thin. My teeth were in better shape and I slept well and my allergic reactions were really quite small... all good things. But that doesn't mean that it's optimal or the best way to eat. It just worked well for me at that time.
  • JAT74
    JAT74 Posts: 1,078 Member
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    Accidentalpancake, not quite sure what you mean by that? Most of my friends are between 35 & 55 and are into fitness and watch their weight. None of them are able to eat loads and maintain their weight.

    Not sure where all these people are who can, but then again most of the people I know consider themselves fit but you wouldn't know they were fit by looking at them ie. they're not very lean don't have much visible muscle, have an average amount of body fat and they don't all weight train so perhaps that's why they can't eat more and burn off the excess, who knows.
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
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    JAT74 wrote: »
    Thank you but I already weigh all my food and measure my liquids! When I eat packaged foods I use the calorie count on the back and make sure I find it 8n MFP. I can promise you I am being honest about my intake, I just struggle to lose on what most would consider a normal amount for a diet.

    When I gained weight and didn't log, of course there was no way to know exactly what I was consuming but it was around 1200-1500 calories most days as I have never been a huge eater and I don't buy snacks or junk food generally. Occasionally when out for meals I may have had slightly more but most of the time I'd skip a meal in order to eat out etc.

    Whatever you may say, I struggle to lose weight. Most days I get my 10,000 steps in and do 45 mins in the gym and still struggle. My breakfast is usually some Greek yoghurt with fruit or a protein smoothy for around 250 calories, lunch is 500-600 and I have a snack of about 150 in the evening.

    I can't explain why the weight won't come off and that's why I put it down to the actual foods I'm eating or quantity of carbs.

    if you arent weighing your packaged food that can be adding up too. packaged food can be off by up to 20%. being a huge eater means nothing. you can be someone who eats a lot of low calorie foods or you could eat a lot of high calorie foods. as for not buying snacks or junk food you can still become overweight eating too many fruits and veggies too. as for the protein smoothies are you making them yourself? if so are you weighing the protein(the scoops can be way off too). trust me I learned all this the hard way .

    I lost weight then gained half back because I wasnt weighing food. once I weighed everything,exactly even packaged food I started losing again(and I have a metabolic disorder and going through perimenopause and never had to eat less than 1300-even when I was sedentary). it could be those small differences you make that can start the weight loss again.even 2 apples of the same size can vary in calories.
  • MommaGem2017
    MommaGem2017 Posts: 405 Member
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    JAT74 wrote: »
    Accidentalpancake, not quite sure what you mean by that? Most of my friends are between 35 & 55 and are into fitness and watch their weight. None of them are able to eat loads and maintain their weight.

    I had lunch with one of them yesterday. She ate fried chicken tacos, looks amazing, and can still fit into her senior prom dress at 40.

  • HeliumIsNoble
    HeliumIsNoble Posts: 1,213 Member
    edited August 2017
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    All in all, I think your perception of 'very active' is off. Could this be contributing to your slower-than-desired progress?

    Consider also, that you're not spending a whole week, as in 24/7, in company with several very active women who aren't dieting, to see what very active women at healthy weights eat over the course of an average week.
  • HeliumIsNoble
    HeliumIsNoble Posts: 1,213 Member
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    Further, things like under-desk cycles may be worth you looking into. http://www.workwhilewalking.com/desk-cycle-reviews#gsc.tab=0