Paleo vs Plant based vs low calorie?
Replies
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CarlaEnsink wrote: »A plant based diet has been shown to be the healthiest. People might not like it. People will argue it, but the research is in. <snip video>
I'm not going to debate it with anyone on here, in fact I'll likely never look at this post again. I know the diet that is health for every body (spacing between words intentional). And it is plant based. The video above could save your life. do it or don't, everyone has a choice.
There are people that smoke every day and don't die of lung cancer, sure, but they are a statistical anomaly. There are people that don't eat plant based that don't get the top 15 diseases, but statistics are NOT on ones side if one is eating meat, dairy and processed junk.
There are centuries of humans eating animal products and not developing chronic disease. That doesn't sound like a "statistical anomaly" to me. Look at the Blue zones we've mentioned, where people routinely live to be active centenarians - most of them eat animal products.
I do think many people would be healthier if they ate more produce and less meat and dairy. But it's a question of proportion.
But you just wanted to hit and run this thread with your two cents without joining the conversation, so carry on
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Yeah, I guess you're right, when I say processed, I don't mean everyday foods that I haven't grown/prepared myself (like wholegrain bread for example), I mean ready meals, cakes/biscuits, junk food, that kind of thing. I occasionally buy fresh pasta sauces with a few days shelf life for example, if they contain quality ingredients, but wouldn't cook a curry out of a jar etc. due to some of the ingredients used, the high salt content and other reasons.
I can't see myself going for a wholly plant based diet and don't believe it's the answer, or cutting out dairy or sugar completely, but will make a conscious effort to buy less 'convenience' foods and cook more from scratch, like I was doing when I followed the SCD diet. I felt like I was doing my body good, rather than feeding it with additives and preservatives.
I will also make an effort to eat more fish, less meat/chicken and more vegetables in place of larger portions of said meat/fish. As a child I hated vegetables but have grown to like them so should cook/eat them more!
I love cheese and yogurt and also eggs and don't want to give those up, but recognise that sheep/goats milk is better than cows, so will try to make substitutions where I can and eat less eggs etc.
One of my favourite meals in Spain is 'tapas' and often that will be a meat, cheese or fish dish with fewer vegetable options, served with bread and ali oli mayonaisse. I will try and add vegetables when eating that in future and reduce the number of protein based dishes.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »laurenebargar wrote: »Lauren, your meals sound delicious. I tend to eat veggie once or twice a week and don't always include cheese or eggs, but that's normally just for one meal. I need to work towards totally meatless days, if I could get to 2 days meatless, 1 fish only and the rest I could have seafood or meat that would be a good start I think.
I think that would be a great start too! No need to do an entire overhaul on your diet, but if you want to change things up and try one or two meatless meals a week I think it can be a great thing! We originally started to save money on our grocery bill when there was only one of us working, the meatless meal was always cheaper!
This is such a great point. If people are interested in any dietary change -- eating more vegetables, eating less processed meat, reducing dairy, whatever -- they can make these changes without having to completely eliminate anything, place a label on how they eat, or decide it's what they have to do for the rest of their lives. They can just pick some meals, start experimenting, and see how they like it.
Thank you for putting my thoughts into words, monday is not treating my brain very well today
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CarlaEnsink wrote: »A plant based diet has been shown to be the healthiest. People might not like it. People will argue it, but the research is in.
https://youtu.be/lXXXygDRyBU (1 and a half hours of research based evidence on how to prevent and in some cased reverse the top 15 causes of death in the US)
I'm not going to debate it with anyone on here, in fact I'll likely never look at this post again. I know the diet that is health for every body (spacing between words intentional). And it is plant based. The video above could save your life. do it or don't, everyone has a choice.
There are people that smoke every day and don't die of lung cancer, sure, but they are a statistical anomaly. There are people that don't eat plant based that don't get the top 15 diseases, but statistics are NOT on ones side if one is eating meat, dairy and processed junk.
It wouldn't be healthy for me with a disease that requires low residue (low fiber). I'd be very very ill if I ate a plant based diet.8 -
CarlaEnsink wrote: »A plant based diet has been shown to be the healthiest. People might not like it. People will argue it, but the research is in. <snip video>
I'm not going to debate it with anyone on here, in fact I'll likely never look at this post again. I know the diet that is health for every body (spacing between words intentional). And it is plant based. The video above could save your life. do it or don't, everyone has a choice.
There are people that smoke every day and don't die of lung cancer, sure, but they are a statistical anomaly. There are people that don't eat plant based that don't get the top 15 diseases, but statistics are NOT on ones side if one is eating meat, dairy and processed junk.
There are centuries of humans eating animal products and not developing chronic disease. That doesn't sound like a "statistical anomaly" to me. Look at the Blue zones we've mentioned, where people routinely live to be active centenarians - most of them eat animal products.
I do think many people would be healthier if they ate more produce and less meat and dairy. But it's a question of proportion.
But you just wanted to hit and run this thread with your two cents without joining the conversation, so carry on
I don't know how to effectively communicate with people who have adopted this theory. The long history of people eating animal products doesn't matter to them, actual evidence from blue zone research doesn't matter to them, pointing out that even people who don't eat animal products get the top 15 diseases won't change their mind.11 -
laurenebargar wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »laurenebargar wrote: »Lauren, your meals sound delicious. I tend to eat veggie once or twice a week and don't always include cheese or eggs, but that's normally just for one meal. I need to work towards totally meatless days, if I could get to 2 days meatless, 1 fish only and the rest I could have seafood or meat that would be a good start I think.
I think that would be a great start too! No need to do an entire overhaul on your diet, but if you want to change things up and try one or two meatless meals a week I think it can be a great thing! We originally started to save money on our grocery bill when there was only one of us working, the meatless meal was always cheaper!
This is such a great point. If people are interested in any dietary change -- eating more vegetables, eating less processed meat, reducing dairy, whatever -- they can make these changes without having to completely eliminate anything, place a label on how they eat, or decide it's what they have to do for the rest of their lives. They can just pick some meals, start experimenting, and see how they like it.
Thank you for putting my thoughts into words, monday is not treating my brain very well today
You said it great! I was just piggybacking off your thoughts.1 -
I think it's a myth to believe that 1200 calories is the minimum anyone should eat and that if you 'think' you're eating less then you really aren't.
Concentration camp rations were around 800 calories a day. Not too many people came out of them looking plump...
Very very very few people are small/light enough to not lose weight on 1200.
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CarlaEnsink wrote: »A plant based diet has been shown to be the healthiest. People might not like it. People will argue it, but the research is in.https://youtu.be/lXXXygDRyBU (1 and a half hours of research based evidence on how to prevent and in some cased reverse the top 15 causes of death in the US)
I'm not going to debate it with anyone on here, in fact I'll likely never look at this post again. I know the diet that is health for every body (spacing between words intentional). And it is plant based. The video above could save your life. do it or don't, everyone has a choice.
There are people that smoke every day and don't die of lung cancer, sure, but they are a statistical anomaly. There are people that don't eat plant based that don't get the top 15 diseases, but statistics are NOT on ones side if one is eating meat, dairy and processed junk.
You obviously have not heard of the Blue Zones then...2 -
Everything in moderation. Sure, have moderate amounts of disease. I never said people who eat milk and meat and junk WILL get one of those diseases. I said statistics are NOT on the side of people eating that way. Whole food plant based eaters live longer on average (that doesn't mean every one of them!!!) and have fewer of those diseases. Statistics show that it isn't just a little bit of difference, it make a very large difference.
I presented the video which includes evidence to back it up.
I don't care if 1000 people hate on my comments, but if just 1 person saves their own life or makes changes for the better, then it is worth it. What do I get out of it personally? Nothing, other than I would feel bad if someone asks for help on which diet to chose if I don't at least point to the research that isn't funded by the meat or dairy industry.18 -
CarlaEnsink wrote: »Everything in moderation. Sure, have moderate amounts of disease. I never said people who eat milk and meat and junk WILL get one of those diseases. I said statistics are NOT on the side of people eating that way. Whole food plant based eaters live longer on average (that doesn't mean every one of them!!!) and have fewer of those diseases. Statistics show that it isn't just a little bit of difference, it make a very large difference.
I presented the video which includes evidence to back it up.
I don't care if 1000 people hate on my comments, but if just 1 person saves their own life or makes changes for the better, then it is worth it. What do I get out of it personally? Nothing, other than I would feel bad if someone asks for help on which diet to chose if I don't at least point to the research that isn't funded by the meat or dairy industry.
What studies are you referring to? I don't like research via youtube, I like to look at the actual studies for myself.8 -
Scientists just discovered bone cancer in 1.7 million year old humanoid bones. Processed meat isn't causing cancer; it's been with us all along. Most didn't live long enough to develop it.10
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The doctor in that video spends all of his work time looking at the research. He does this for his non profit and makes nothing off of it or his book. If you want to do the research yourself, you would have to subscribe to all of the nutrition journals, or if you currently attend college it may be available for free. If you watch the video you can hear what he says about each study and then from there do your own research to find the study and read it in its entirety.16
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If it is something about youtube in particular you are against, he provides all of his information for free on www.nutritionfacts.org as well.12
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or if you don't like him or want multiple people showing the research, Dr. Joel Fuhrman has a book Eat to Live and many others you can get from the library. Oh and Dr Greger who is in the video above also has his book 'How not to Die' which would potentially be even better for looking up the research because each study will be in the back along with the journal and page number e
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Scientists just discovered bone cancer in 1.7 million year old humanoid bones. Processed meat isn't causing cancer; it's been with us all along. Most didn't live long enough to develop it.
So because someone had cancer 1.7 million years ago, XYZ doesn't "cause" cancer? Seriously???1 -
CarlaEnsink wrote: »The doctor in that video spends all of his work time looking at the research. He does this for his non profit and makes nothing off of it or his book. If you want to do the research yourself, you would have to subscribe to all of the nutrition journals, or if you currently attend college it may be available for free. If you watch the video you can hear what he says about each study and then from there do your own research to find the study and read it in its entirety.
If he spends all his work time looking at the research yet doesn't make any money for it, how does he pay his bills? Is he independently wealthy?
Why if I don't watch the video would I have to subscribe to nutritional journals and go to college in order to evaluate his claims but if I watch the video I'll be able to find the studies?
Did you evaluate the studies he cited? If you did, why not share them with me so I can read them? Or are all your claims based just on this video?8 -
CarlaEnsink wrote: »Everything in moderation. Sure, have moderate amounts of disease. I never said people who eat milk and meat and junk WILL get one of those diseases. I said statistics are NOT on the side of people eating that way. Whole food plant based eaters live longer on average (that doesn't mean every one of them!!!) and have fewer of those diseases. Statistics show that it isn't just a little bit of difference, it make a very large difference.
I presented the video which includes evidence to back it up.
I don't care if 1000 people hate on my comments, but if just 1 person saves their own life or makes changes for the better, then it is worth it. What do I get out of it personally? Nothing, other than I would feel bad if someone asks for help on which diet to chose if I don't at least point to the research that isn't funded by the meat or dairy industry.
Except the blue zones are statistically the ones where people live the longest and they DO eat animal products.10 -
CarlaEnsink wrote: »The doctor in that video spends all of his work time looking at the research. He does this for his non profit and makes nothing off of it or his book. If you want to do the research yourself, you would have to subscribe to all of the nutrition journals, or if you currently attend college it may be available for free. If you watch the video you can hear what he says about each study and then from there do your own research to find the study and read it in its entirety.
Dr McDougall and Dr Greger make a lot of money by scaring the living the crap out of people. Dr Greger's website says: "All proceeds from his speaking engagements and the sale of his books and DVDs are donated to his 501(c)3 nonprofit NutritionFacts.org". I hate to break it to you, but just because an organization is "Not for profit" for tax purposes doesn't mean the people involved don't make an ungodly amount of money in the process.12 -
CarlaEnsink wrote: »The doctor in that video spends all of his work time looking at the research. He does this for his non profit and makes nothing off of it or his book. If you want to do the research yourself, you would have to subscribe to all of the nutrition journals, or if you currently attend college it may be available for free. If you watch the video you can hear what he says about each study and then from there do your own research to find the study and read it in its entirety.
Dr McDougall and Dr Greger make a lot of money by scaring the living the crap out of people. Dr Greger's website says: "All proceeds from his speaking engagements and the sale of his books and DVDs are donated to his 501(c)3 nonprofit NutritionFacts.org". I hate to break it to you, but just because an organization is "Not for profit" for tax purposes doesn't mean the people involved don't make an ungodly amount of money in the process.
There is a huge gulf between "works for a non-profit" and "doesn't make anything from his work."7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »CarlaEnsink wrote: »The doctor in that video spends all of his work time looking at the research. He does this for his non profit and makes nothing off of it or his book. If you want to do the research yourself, you would have to subscribe to all of the nutrition journals, or if you currently attend college it may be available for free. If you watch the video you can hear what he says about each study and then from there do your own research to find the study and read it in its entirety.
Dr McDougall and Dr Greger make a lot of money by scaring the living the crap out of people. Dr Greger's website says: "All proceeds from his speaking engagements and the sale of his books and DVDs are donated to his 501(c)3 nonprofit NutritionFacts.org". I hate to break it to you, but just because an organization is "Not for profit" for tax purposes doesn't mean the people involved don't make an ungodly amount of money in the process.
There is a huge gulf between "works for a non-profit" and "doesn't make anything from his work."
Right. The organization may be non-profit. But often with non-profits, the people that work for and/or run them (usually the ones that run them) get paid hefty salaries.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »CarlaEnsink wrote: »The doctor in that video spends all of his work time looking at the research. He does this for his non profit and makes nothing off of it or his book. If you want to do the research yourself, you would have to subscribe to all of the nutrition journals, or if you currently attend college it may be available for free. If you watch the video you can hear what he says about each study and then from there do your own research to find the study and read it in its entirety.
Dr McDougall and Dr Greger make a lot of money by scaring the living the crap out of people. Dr Greger's website says: "All proceeds from his speaking engagements and the sale of his books and DVDs are donated to his 501(c)3 nonprofit NutritionFacts.org". I hate to break it to you, but just because an organization is "Not for profit" for tax purposes doesn't mean the people involved don't make an ungodly amount of money in the process.
There is a huge gulf between "works for a non-profit" and "doesn't make anything from his work."
Exactly 0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »CarlaEnsink wrote: »The doctor in that video spends all of his work time looking at the research. He does this for his non profit and makes nothing off of it or his book. If you want to do the research yourself, you would have to subscribe to all of the nutrition journals, or if you currently attend college it may be available for free. If you watch the video you can hear what he says about each study and then from there do your own research to find the study and read it in its entirety.
Dr McDougall and Dr Greger make a lot of money by scaring the living the crap out of people. Dr Greger's website says: "All proceeds from his speaking engagements and the sale of his books and DVDs are donated to his 501(c)3 nonprofit NutritionFacts.org". I hate to break it to you, but just because an organization is "Not for profit" for tax purposes doesn't mean the people involved don't make an ungodly amount of money in the process.
There is a huge gulf between "works for a non-profit" and "doesn't make anything from his work."
Right. The organization may be non-profit. But often with non-profits, the people that work for and/or run them (usually the ones that run them) get paid hefty salaries.
They get paid. Some get paid hefty salaries. Some get paid reasonable salaries.0 -
I'm sorry that that journals aren't for free, but they are not. That's how it currently works, the info is put in journals and they cost money. That's where the scientific research is published! But then again, diseases are pretty expensive, too. All about priorities I guess.
The great thing about the not for profit site is that it isn't sponsored by meat or dairy or cola, so there is no pressure, no extra money in it for not speaking the truth.
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janejellyroll wrote: »CarlaEnsink wrote: »The doctor in that video spends all of his work time looking at the research. He does this for his non profit and makes nothing off of it or his book. If you want to do the research yourself, you would have to subscribe to all of the nutrition journals, or if you currently attend college it may be available for free. If you watch the video you can hear what he says about each study and then from there do your own research to find the study and read it in its entirety.
Dr McDougall and Dr Greger make a lot of money by scaring the living the crap out of people. Dr Greger's website says: "All proceeds from his speaking engagements and the sale of his books and DVDs are donated to his 501(c)3 nonprofit NutritionFacts.org". I hate to break it to you, but just because an organization is "Not for profit" for tax purposes doesn't mean the people involved don't make an ungodly amount of money in the process.
There is a huge gulf between "works for a non-profit" and "doesn't make anything from his work."
Right. The organization may be non-profit. But often with non-profits, the people that work for and/or run them (usually the ones that run them) get paid hefty salaries.
His latest book was a New York Times bestseller and he requests at least $10,000 (plus his travel costs) per speaking engagement (per his website).
I'm not going to discount what someone is saying just because they're making money for it. But you can't put the "He's doing it for free because he cares" cloak on someone who is clearly generating a lot of money doing what he is doing (even if that money is going into a non-profit, it's still a lot of funds).9 -
I hope he does get paid a lot! He has an important message. The important part to me is that the site is ad free and there's no push from a big corporation.16
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CarlaEnsink wrote: »I'm sorry that that journals aren't for free, but they are not. That's how it currently works, the info is put in journals and they cost money. That's where the scientific research is published! But then again, diseases are pretty expensive, too. All about priorities I guess.
The great thing about the not for profit site is that it isn't sponsored by meat or dairy or cola, so there is no pressure, no extra money in it for not speaking the truth.
You don't have to worry about how I'm going to access the studies. I promise, I'll worry about that. If you looked them up, then I can find a way to do it too. Which studies are you referring to? Which ones convinced you that people on a plant-based diet live longer than those who include animal products in their diets?9 -
Plus this is the kind of *kitten* that happens when you try to spread a message. Don't look at MY words! He's an expert in researching the studies. Listen to him and then decide.16
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CarlaEnsink wrote: »Plus this is the kind of *kitten* that happens when you try to spread a message. Don't look at MY words! He's an expert in researching the studies. Listen to him and then decide.
He didn't come here to convince me of anything. You did.
If you're telling me that you aren't convinced of the claims and take it just on his say-so, okay. Why not just say that at first? We could have saved some time.6 -
CarlaEnsink wrote: »I hope he does get paid a lot! He has an important message. The important part to me is that the site is ad free and there's no push from a big corporation.
You hope he does? A few posts ago you insisted that he made no profit from his research or his books and that was a reason to trust him.10 -
I'm happy that you may choose to look into this. I've given you the video that references the studies. I've told you about the book which is available through your library for free and comes with all of the references. No, I am not going to watch an hour and a half video and write down the info on your behalf. No offense, I care about people in general to point them in the right direction, but you have to have enough of your own oomph to look up the parts you are interested in. Free book. References at the back. Best wishes. I hope it is enlightening and that you get one or more take-aways. For me, it was full of them 11
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