Paleo vs Plant based vs low calorie?

JAT74 · July 2017

I watched a documentary a couple of days ago about the fact that we as humans generally eat too much meat (including chicken) and that this, along with too much dairy, is causing most major diseases such as Cancer, Diabetes, Heart disease etc. mostly due to what's added to the meat during the production process. Processed meats are the worst, but other meats aren't that far behind, and fish has other issues as it contains mercury and other nasties. Dairy was deemed as unfit for human consumption too and Eggs were mentioned as being especially bad.

In place of this, they recommended eating a mostly plant based diet along with legumes, grains etc. but not to cut out sugar from the diet and to use plant based fats rather than animal fat.

I could see where the presenter was coming from and some of what they were saying was based on studies but it's left me more confused than ever about what I should and shouldn't be eating for my health and also for weight loss.

For many many years I've believed that my body reacts badly to carbohydrates and that it holds onto fat when I eat a high carb/high sugar diet. I generally eat a lot of meat, chicken and seafood (not so much fish as I'm not a big fan), though I do try and balance this by eating fruit and vegetables. I have dairy too, though not a lot and mainly in the form of yoghurt along with a little milk and cheese (not every day).

I usually try to eat reasonably low carb most of the time (under 100g per day) but I still find it extremely hard to lose weight and it's getting even more difficult the older I get (I'm now almost 43). I generally eat around 900-1100 calories most days, with more at weekends and I exercise daily (either walking, cardio on gym machines and I do weight training 3 x a week). My recent 'natural' weight is between 140 and 152lbs and I am trying to get to approx 119lbs. Before counting calories and reducing to my current level, I was eating in the region of 1200-1600 calories most days. Any more than that and I start to gain weight rapidly. I rarely drink alcohol.

Taking on board what was said in the documentary about a plant based diet, I want to try and cut down on meats so that I only eat processed meat once a week (currently about 3-4 times a week in small quantities) as I know this is bad, other meats a couple of times a week (currently most days) because I realise that the meats we eat are pumped full of chemicals and fish 1-2 days a week too (currently 0-1 day a week) if I can get it from a clean source. I would like to increase my vegetable intake too (I eat plenty of fruit) because I find that I'm not able to eat more than around 10g of fibre most days, even though most of my meals contain a vegetable of some sort. My concern here is that I can't get organic where I live and the food we can buy in supermarkets is covered in pesticides.

I'm a bit concerned that by reducing meats I will end up not getting enough protein (something which the documentary disputes) and also that by increasing vegetable, legume and grain intake I will be adding more calories and that these foods are high in carbs.

I also have doubts about cutting out dairy and eggs, as I know high fat dairy isn't great but I usually only have this in small quantities (except yogurt).

What are other people's thoughts on this and how will it affect my weight loss? At the moment my weight loss is very very slow anyway, so anything which may help (such as more fibre?) I would welcome. I will continue counting calories and some people say that not all calories are the same, so don't know if it matters where I get my calories from?

It also occurs to me that when I have been much lighter, it's been when I've either eaten more green vegetables and other sweet vegetables like carrots, more fruit in place of processed sugars, homemade yogurt, cut out starchy carbs, used things like honey for baking with almond/coconut flour and when I've only eaten lean meat/fish (I followed the SCD diet for 5 months to try and help cure my partner's Colitis). I managed to lose about 21lbs in that period of time (or less) without even trying, and thinking back to that time a couple of years ago I'm not too sure why.

I'm leaning towards trying to go Paleo as it's not quite as strict as SCD, contains all natural foods (including eggs and lean meats/fish though I can't buy 'grass fed' where I live) but it also cuts out dairy and grains. It ticks the boxes in terms of cutting out processed meats which is great, but it still allows a lot of foods that a plant based diet wouldn't, and cuts out grains which plant based says you should eat!

Ultimately I want to do the best thing for my health/future health, but desperately need to get the weight off too as I carry an unhealthy level of body fat (currently around 34%) but don't know what to do! I want to get my body back to top condition but don't want to eleminate foods unnecessarily and don't really know what is/isn't bad for me or us as a species because of so much conflicting advice. Energy levels are another consideration.

Doesn't anyone have any thoughts/advice on this? The people around me all eat a 'normal' diet ie. whatever they want, when they want but nobody I know is trying to be healthy. I know a couple who live nearby and they've just lost around 20lbs each, but only be eating a vlcd of approx 500-800 calories every day for the last 7 months. They live primarily on protein shakes and personally I don't want to resort to that!

L1zardQueen · July 2017

Watch documentaries with a discerning eye, most are agenda based.

MichelleSilverleaf · July 2017

Curious about what this "documentary" was. Wasn't "What the Health", was it?

If you're not losing weight on 900-1100 a day (which is under the bare minimum, and not exactly recommended) then you're not measuring accurately. Or else extremely short.

Meat is not full of chemicals, nor is it evil. Fruits and veggies at the store are not coated in pesticides and organic is not pesticide-free. Organic can (and does!) use 'natural' pesticides, often at a much higher rate than non-organic (pesticide use be it organic or non is usually going to depend on the year and what issues are happening). The ONLY reason your body would hold on to fat is if you were consuming more calories than you were burning.

Every body is different. Some people prefer low carbs, some high, some prefer low protein some prefer high, etc. Unless you have anything like celiac or some condition in which you have to watch what you eat, experiment with different foods and see how you feel. Calories are the only thing that affect your weight loss, if you think Paleo will help you stick to a deficit then by all means. It comes down to what works for you.

JackieMarie1989jgw · July 2017

Was this documentary "What the Health?" by any chance? I would be hesitant to make dietary choices based off a documentary, as they tend to be biased and exclude evidence which disputes their claims. And if the documentary I think it is, I have heard even some vegans refer to it as extreme.

That being said, if you want to cut back on animal products for whatever reason, do so. If you want to cut back on carbs/processed foods, do so. Both of these diets have the potential to be healthy, well balanced diets getting in all essential nutrients. There is no one diet that is the golden ticket.

As far as to weight loss, if you are female you should be eating a minimum of 1200 calories a day, and a minimum of 1500 if you're male for basic health. Simply put, if you're not losing weight on 900 calories, you're not actually eating 900 calories. You are probably eating a lot more than you think, this is a common issue that even experienced calorie counters can run into! Buy a food scale, measure all liquids, track very carefully everything you eat. Set a reasonable deficit, nothing below 1200.
No matter what diet you choose (plant based, paleo, low carb, etc) as long as you are in a calorie deficit you will lose weight

JAT74 · July 2017

Yes, it was 'What the health'. I suppose it was made to shock and shock it did! Both my partner and I were left with the feeling that we're eating foods which could contribute to serious illnesses in the future. I read reviews and did some research of my own after watching it however, and reached the conclusion that it was pretty extreme and not everything they claimed is necessarily true.

Having said that I think I do eat meat too often and there's no denying that the way or food is produced is not entirely natural, so I'd like to cut back on this if possible. In terms of carbs, my fear of carbs is down to the dramatic weight gain I seem to have these days, just be eating 'normally'.

I've heard the arguments many times before saying that the 'minimum' for a woman should be 1200 calories etc. etc. and that if I'm eating less and not losing weight I must be eating more than I think etc. I personally don't agree with this at all, as everyone is made differently. I've watched my peers who are blessed with better genes eat loads more than I do (when in their company for extended periods of time) and stay very thin and similarly I've watched people who eat a lot more than me and who are much bigger than they should be (but usually this is down to portion sizes being too large or drinking too much alcohol etc.). I know many people my age who eat less than I do and who are thin too.

Examples are the couple I mentioned in my last post (who live on 500-800 calories most days consisting of 2 protein shakes plus a undressed salad, the person who weighs just over 100 lbs and who eats 500 calories 5 days a week and 800 at weekends (who probably has an eating disorder I might add) and those people - of which I know several - who skip at least 1-2 meals most days and who 'pick' at food the majority of the time so they're calorie intake overall is very low.

I think it's a myth to believe that 1200 calories is the minimum anyone should eat and that if you 'think' you're eating less then you really aren't.

I've been counting calories for a few weeks now, and have done so many many times in the past. The only time I've ever lost a considerable amount of weight at any stage is when I've eaten 800-1000 calories maximum. At those times I've carefully weighed, measured and read packets of food to ensure I'm not going over on calories and I've logged every single thing I put in my mouth.

One reason I can only eat so little (I believe) is that I lead an extremely sedentary lifestyle generally. I sit at a desk for 9 hours a day, stand in a kitchen cooking at lunchtime and in the evening I sit in front of the tv during my free time. I try and balance that out a little by doing some exercise before/after work, but it doesn't make up for all those hours when I'm barely buring any calories.

Of course if I had an active job, had to commute to/from work, had to pick kids up from schook and other similar tasks I could probably eat way more than I do now and lose weight, but it just isn't the case.

I've proved this when I go on holiday. I generally spend my days walking for 5-7 hours every day and I stay active. I don't count calories, eat what I want and usually come back from my break without having put on any weight, an on some occasions I've even lost weight.

Unfortuantely I can't change my work/everyday life, so need to think about eating lower calories and maybe also different foods. When I eat even a little more (like I did this weekend), I gain weight again. As an example I've gained about 1.5 lbs over the weekend and I haven't had any alcohol or eaten badly. I've eaten approximately 300-500 calories per day over my usual 900-1000 calories but that's been enough for me to see weight gain.

As for a healthy diet to prevent disease, I'm still unsure about what I should/shouldn't be eating so it would be geat to hear from the experience of others. I would also like to hear from people how have cut out certain foods and who've found they've lost weight be doing so.

JAT74 · July 2017

I should also add that my metabolism is extremely slow. I've been tested for thyroid problems and the doctor told me I don't have an issue but the test results put me as close to having an underactive thyroid so I think this could be another reason I can't lose weight so easily.

I'm still unsure about which way to go with the diet, I'm thinking that perhaps if I eat less grains or even cut them out completely, it may be easier to eat less calories. Having said that, foods such as nuts/fruit and oils are all high in calories. I do believe we should eat food that is as naturally produced as possible and it's nice to have a reminder of that with a documenary from time to time. The problem is it can be so confusing when you're told one minute that sugar and carbs are bad for you and the next that meat and dairy are the enemy!

accidentalpancake · July 2017

The only utility those documentaries have, if you're not willing to thoroughly research every claim, is that they can work as a catalyst to get you to think about your food choices. Rather than eliminate food categories that don't cause you any harm, you should be more mindful about what you eat (content and amount) and where it comes from. That alone will benefit you.

As an example, when I was hovering around 280lbs six years ago (and binge-watching the entire Netflix catalog while waiting for my first day at a new job), I watched "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead", which somehow became a huge driver for me to start eating healthier and losing weight. I didn't start juicing, or worse yet, go on some ridiculous "juice fast", but I did become more mindful. I've lost, and kept off, over 50lbs since then.

janejellyroll · July 2017

I'm vegan and I wouldn't take health advice from "What the Health." It's actually received heat from experts in vegan nutrition because so many of the claims made in the film are either from cherry-picked data or are exaggerations.

That said, if you're interested in eating more plant foods you can certainly doing that while meeting your needs for protein and eating at a deficit. Nuts, fruits, and oils can be higher calorie, but vegans/plant-based people can moderate their consumption of them just as non-vegans do. Carbohydrates don't have to be limited unless you have a medical reason to do so or you find it makes it easier for you to hit your calorie goal. But vegans/plant-based people don't *have* to eat grains. While grains are tasty, convenient, and often very nutritious, you can build your meals around vegetables, legumes, and proteins like tofu, tempeh, and seitan. When I was losing weight, I didn't eat grains very often because they just didn't seem worth the calories. Now that I'm maintaining and can eat more, I have them more often, but still not with every meal.

Lots of people have had success with either making one meal a day meatless or one day a week meatless. It's a pretty way to experiment with new recipes without having the shock of a total dietary change all at once. It would also be a way to see if this is a way you're interested in living.

laurenebargar · July 2017

My husband too saw this documentary and originally wanted to cut everything out of our diets, processed foods, meat etc. I only eat meat maybe once every two weeks (was a veggie for 5 years) and have been toying with the idea of going back there. We dont really eat many processed foods as it is (I personally dont care either way, we just tend to prefer to make tomato sauce rather than buy it, cook everything from scratch ETC) So, we just started making less meals with meat. We've been eating meat rarely, I think its been about 2 weeks since i've had any and maybe a week for him? You can start slow if you want, we aren't purposely saying we will never eat meat again but limiting it and trying out new recipes is fun. I know I could live this way forever, my husband on the other hand has always enjoyed meat, so we will see. We made "burgers" last night with mushrooms and he said he didnt miss the meat at all. I think that if we went through out cupboards and swore off meat completely we would be miserable, making small changes to your diet is fine, and finding a place where you are comfortable is going to make it stick long term.

JAT74 · July 2017

Yes, I certainly agree with that. I also watched that documentary and it had a similar reaction.

The frustrating thing for me I think is that when I was in my 20s I lived in a student environment for several years and didn't even know what a calorie was. I ate a lot of takeaway food and always ate dessert, plus I drank alcohol daily. At that time (along with my friends/flatmates) I gained a ton of weight but I didn't care. In my teens I was always pretty small because I ate a really healthy diet most of the time, with occasional treats. I went from that to living on my own and being in control of my own food etc. and being someone who's always loved food it quickly got out of hand. I wouldn't say I was eating loads but I was definitely eating too much.

By the time I decided to do something about it I was around 175-180lbs which for me was huge (considering my weight in my teens was about 120lbs).

At first it was easy to lose the weight just by cutting down on alcohol, cooking fresh meals, eating smaller portions etc. and I easily reached 121lbs and kept it off for 2-3 years without even trying. After that (at which point I was into my 30s) it became a struggle to keep the weight down as eating low carb and avoiding alcohol etc. became too difficult to sustain all the time.

Since then my weight has fluctuated between about 126lbs and 150lbs! Ok, not as much as I was at my heaviest but I know it's not healthy as my body fat is sky high when I gain weight and want to get it down to a healthier level. I also become really introverted when I'm heavier and don't enjoy being outdoors unless it's winter etc.

One way or another I need to find a way to get to a lower weight where I feel comfortable and know I'm healthy and stay there but it's easier said than done. Having seen various people around me with health issues caused by an unhealthy diet/lifestyle, this also plays on my mind and if very important to me.

I know there's no magic cure for weight issues, but it would be great if I could find a way to stay at a healthier size/weight for the rest o fmy life.

lauracups · July 2017

Beware of agenda based scare tactics. Eat what is enjoyable and SUSTAINABLE for you.

Maxematics · July 2017

JAT74 wrote: »

I've heard the arguments many times before saying that the 'minimum' for a woman should be 1200 calories etc. etc. and that if I'm eating less and not losing weight I must be eating more than I think etc. I personally don't agree with this at all, as everyone is made differently. I've watched my peers who are blessed with better genes eat loads more than I do (when in their company for extended periods of time) and stay very thin and similarly I've watched people who eat a lot more than me and who are much bigger than they should be (but usually this is down to portion sizes being too large or drinking too much alcohol etc.). I know many people my age who eat less than I do and who are thin too.

You can disagree all you want to but the fact of the matter is that if you're not using a food scale to weigh everything you eat, you're most likely eating more than you think. When people say that, it's not an attack on you personally; they say it because most people are pretty bad at estimating food portions. They may think they're great at it but food scales are extremely eye opening. On top of that, the smaller the calorie allowance, the more one needs precision. If your deficit only allows for a loss of half a pound per week due to being shorter, older, and/or sedentary, as a woman natural monthly fluctuations can disguise progress on the scale and if your calorie intake is not precise, it can easily wipe out a deficit.

Your peers aren't "blessed" with better genes and can magically eat loads more than you and not gain weight. Metabolisms do not vary by that much. You only get a glimpse of what these people are doing throughout the day. You don't see how physically active they are, how much they fidget, their weekly intake, etc. I could eat 500 calories per day for five days in a row, then eat 4000 calories on the weekend in front of someone else and they'd assume I can eat whatever I want because I'm blessed with a thin body and/or a fast metabolism when that's not the case. Comparison is the thief of joy anyway.

It doesn't matter what diet you follow as long as you are adhering to a calorie deficit. If you're not being precise with your logging by using a food scale, you cannot say with certainty that you can only lose weight by going below 1200 calories.

OliveGirl128 · July 2017

That documentary has been discussed quite a bit already here, with numerous other threads going. It was made by extreme animal rights activists and the information is purposely distorted, to push an agenda.

Op-if you want a more balanced approach the DASH diet is a fantastic outline for a healthy diet- https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/dash/followdash
Or look into the Blue Zones, and how the longest living groups of people eat. You'll quickly see that they still include animal products into their diets, in small amounts.

There are no reputable studies/research that shows that a vegan woe is any healthier than a diet that includes animal products. Even hard core plant based advocates like Dr. Fuhrman admit to this. Focus on a diet that helps you achieve your calorie goals, and then gives you a good balances of macros and micros.

JAT74 · July 2017

janejellyroll and laurenebargar I know I could cut out meat the majority of the time if I ate dairy and based meals on more egg/cheesey foods instead of meat but I don't know if they're necessarily healthier.

I don't eat many processed foods really, I'm in Spain and most people here eat fresh fruit/vegetables and cook from scratch anyway. it's generally things like cured ham, bacon/other pork products that are processed, or packaged yogurts etc. though I prefer to eat natural yogurt and add my own sweetner like honey or pure maple syrup. Other than that if I cook with meat/fish I'll use the natural/unprocessed type or canned tuna etc.

I definitely want to introduce more fish into my diet but need to be aware of mercury. Salt and preservatives added to meat is also not ideal, but I know it would be hard for any of us to eat completely naturally unless we could grow our own vegetables and raise our own livestock!

I can take or leave processed snacks most of the time and like things like nuts in place of chips/crisps and fruit in place of baked goods etc. but my main issue is sometimes I get hungry and find that 900 calories doesn't cut it! Maybe I should try filling up on low calorie foods like vegetables a bit more. It's just a case of making substitutes so I don't feel deprived. It can be difficult to think that way when you're not seeing the restults you want though. At the start of the year I was 151lbs and now I'm around 145 so not much lost in all this time.

OliveGirl128 · July 2017

JAT74 wrote: »

janejellyroll and laurenebargar I know I could cut out meat the majority of the time if I ate dairy and based meals on more egg/cheesey foods instead of meat but I don't know if they're necessarily healthier.

I don't eat many processed foods really, I'm in Spain and most people here eat fresh fruit/vegetables and cook from scratch anyway. it's generally things like cured ham, bacon/other pork products that are processed, or packaged yogurts etc. though I prefer to eat natural yogurt and add my own sweetner like honey or pure maple syrup. Other than that if I cook with meat/fish I'll use the natural/unprocessed type or canned tuna etc.

I definitely want to introduce more fish into my diet but need to be aware of mercury. Salt and preservatives added to meat is also not ideal, but I know it would be hard for any of us to eat completely naturally unless we could grow our own vegetables and raise our own livestock!

I can take or leave processed snacks most of the time and like things like nuts in place of chips/crisps and fruit in place of baked goods etc. but my main issue is sometimes I get hungry and find that 900 calories doesn't cut it! Maybe I should try filling up on low calorie foods like vegetables a bit more. It's just a case of making substitutes so I don't feel deprived. It can be difficult to think that way when you're not seeing the restults you want though. At the start of the year I was 151lbs and now I'm around 145 so not much lost in all this time.

Why on earth are you only eating 900 calories? Are you on an extreme weight loss plan under a Dr.'s supervision?

janejellyroll · July 2017

JAT74 wrote: »

janejellyroll and laurenebargar I know I could cut out meat the majority of the time if I ate dairy and based meals on more egg/cheesey foods instead of meat but I don't know if they're necessarily healthier.

I don't eat many processed foods really, I'm in Spain and most people here eat fresh fruit/vegetables and cook from scratch anyway. it's generally things like cured ham, bacon/other pork products that are processed, or packaged yogurts etc. though I prefer to eat natural yogurt and add my own sweetner like honey or pure maple syrup. Other than that if I cook with meat/fish I'll use the natural/unprocessed type or canned tuna etc.

I definitely want to introduce more fish into my diet but need to be aware of mercury. Salt and preservatives added to meat is also not ideal, but I know it would be hard for any of us to eat completely naturally unless we could grow our own vegetables and raise our own livestock!

I can take or leave processed snacks most of the time and like things like nuts in place of chips/crisps and fruit in place of baked goods etc. but my main issue is sometimes I get hungry and find that 900 calories doesn't cut it! Maybe I should try filling up on low calorie foods like vegetables a bit more. It's just a case of making substitutes so I don't feel deprived. It can be difficult to think that way when you're not seeing the restults you want though. At the start of the year I was 151lbs and now I'm around 145 so not much lost in all this time.

Many people find that filling up with lower calorie vegetables is a great way to feel satisfied while meeting their calorie goals. I'm one of them.

laurenebargar · July 2017

JAT74 wrote: »

janejellyroll and laurenebargar I know I could cut out meat the majority of the time if I ate dairy and based meals on more egg/cheesey foods instead of meat but I don't know if they're necessarily healthier.

I don't eat many processed foods really, I'm in Spain and most people here eat fresh fruit/vegetables and cook from scratch anyway. it's generally things like cured ham, bacon/other pork products that are processed, or packaged yogurts etc. though I prefer to eat natural yogurt and add my own sweetner like honey or pure maple syrup. Other than that if I cook with meat/fish I'll use the natural/unprocessed type or canned tuna etc.

I definitely want to introduce more fish into my diet but need to be aware of mercury. Salt and preservatives added to meat is also not ideal, but I know it would be hard for any of us to eat completely naturally unless we could grow our own vegetables and raise our own livestock!

I can take or leave processed snacks most of the time and like things like nuts in place of chips/crisps and fruit in place of baked goods etc. but my main issue is sometimes I get hungry and find that 900 calories doesn't cut it! Maybe I should try filling up on low calorie foods like vegetables a bit more. It's just a case of making substitutes so I don't feel deprived. It can be difficult to think that way when you're not seeing the restults you want though. At the start of the year I was 151lbs and now I'm around 145 so not much lost in all this time.

Just to give you a few ideas of the past few nights of dinners in my house that were meatless.
Healthy Pesto Pasta Bake (pesto made of kale spinach basil lemon juice and pine nuts) on whole wheat noodles and less than .5 cup of cheese
Mushroom Burgers, (mushrooms on a roll with grilled zucchini grilled bell pepper and mustard)

Neither are covered with cheese or eggs.

I also would like to add that after my husband did some research, he doesnt agree with What the Health but does think that having less meat can be a good thing, we are taking it one day at a time and basing what we eat off what we feel.

JAT74 · July 2017

Maxematics, I do use a food scale to weigh my food and therefore know how much I'm eating.

OliveGirl128 that's really interesting, I haven't read the other threads but will have a look. I'll also look into the other diet you've recommended, though I keep an eye on my food groups already via mfp so think my diet is pretty fairly balanced. The reason I stick to approx 900 calories most days is I start gaining if I eat over 1000 on a daily basis. I've discovered this is due to trial and error, so if I have any chance of losing weight I have to aim for under 1000. I've been to see doctors about this but they've not been able to find a medical reason why this is the case for me. My mum has exactly the same issue and always has done.

It's funny you mention Blue Zones, I wasn't aware of that term, but I was looking at this exact topic yesterday to try and work out what the longest living/healthiest nations eat primarily! In my experience of people who've suffered health issues which have lead them to have to change their diets, I know people who have had to cut out fat (due to problems with gall bladder) and eat mainly plain food without added sauces or fats. They mainly ate grains and lean meat/fish but lost loads of weight by doing so. They were able to eat fruit and vegetables too, but maybe the lack of fat in the diet lead to the extreme weight loss or perhaps it was the inability to eat a lot of those types of foods. On the SCD diet which doesn't allow grains, starchy carbs or dairy except special yoghurt both myself and my partner lost a lot of weight. We were eating plenty and didn't watch our fat intake (though we only ate olive oil and coconut oil).

The mediterranean diet is very healthy anyway, though I find a lot of bread is eaten in addition to a lot of cheese and high fat desserts. Portion sizes are also quite large and alcohol is consumed daily by most people in Spain. They do seem to consume more protein and fruit/vegetables/eggs/cheese than carbs though, so maybe that's why obesity isn't a very big problem yet and they tend to eat a fairly balanced diet.

JAT74 · July 2017

Lauren, your meals sound delicious. I tend to eat veggie once or twice a week and don't always include cheese or eggs, but that's normally just for one meal. I need to work towards totally meatless days, if I could get to 2 days meatless, 1 fish only and the rest I could have seafood or meat that would be a good start I think.

SuzySunshine99 · July 2017

None of us make it out of this life alive.

Certainly, there are things that you can do to increase the odds that the later years of your life will be happier and healthier. Things like not smoking, exercising, maintaining a healthy weight, and eating a nutritionally balanced diet, all while enjoying all food groups in moderation.

If you really want to cut out entire food groups, then you certainly can. You can get your protein, calcium, etc. from sources other than meat or dairy. But, you shouldn't be doing it just because you think it will prevent you from getting cancer or other illnesses. If you enjoy eating a plant-based diet, then go for it. But if it's a hardship for you, if you're going to miss certain foods, or if it causes you stress, then why make yourself miserable? Life is too short to not enjoy it (in moderation, of course).

OliveGirl128 · July 2017

JAT74 wrote: »

Maxematics, I do use a food scale to weigh my food and therefore know how much I'm eating.

OliveGirl128 that's really interesting, I haven't read the other threads but will have a look. I'll also look into the other diet you've recommended, though I keep an eye on my food groups already via mfp so think my diet is pretty fairly balanced. The reason I stick to approx 900 calories most days is I start gaining if I eat over 1000 on a daily basis. I've discovered this is due to trial and error, so if I have any chance of losing weight I have to aim for under 1000. I've been to see doctors about this but they've not been able to find a medical reason why this is the case for me. My mum has exactly the same issue and always has done.

It's funny you mention Blue Zones, I wasn't aware of that term, but I was looking at this exact topic yesterday to try and work out what the longest living/healthiest nations eat primarily! In my experience of people who've suffered health issues which have lead them to have to change their diets, I know people who have had to cut out fat (due to problems with gall bladder) and eat mainly plain food without added sauces or fats. They mainly ate grains and lean meat/fish but lost loads of weight by doing so. They were able to eat fruit and vegetables too, but maybe the lack of fat in the diet lead to the extreme weight loss or perhaps it was the inability to eat a lot of those types of foods. On the SCD diet which doesn't allow grains, starchy carbs or dairy except special yoghurt both myself and my partner lost a lot of weight. We were eating plenty and didn't watch our fat intake (though we only ate olive oil and coconut oil).

The mediterranean diet is very healthy anyway, though I find a lot of bread is eaten in addition to a lot of cheese and high fat desserts. Portion sizes are also quite large and alcohol is consumed daily by most people in Spain. They do seem to consume more protein and fruit/vegetables/eggs/cheese than carbs though, so maybe that's why obesity isn't a very big problem yet and they tend to eat a fairly balanced diet.

The Blue Zones are fascinating to me

Here's a great article, if you haven't already read it
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/04/11/398325030/eating-to-break-100-longevity-diet-tips-from-the-blue-zones

I have to amend what I posted above, there is one vegetarian group that makes the list, (the SDA group in Loma Linda, CA). However, notice that within that group there's a sub-group that still eats fish several times a week and they have even better outcomes than their strict vegetarian counterparts.

I've been successfully maintaining a 50lb weight loss for 4 years now eating whatever I wanted, just within my calorie parameters, but earlier this year I became very interested in how food may affect long term health. So I really do get where you're coming from. I started with the Blue Zones, then read about the big meta study that recently came out, about quantity of veg/fruit, and how that may play a large role in disease prevention http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_22-2-2017-16-38-0

and from there I decided to transition to a whole foods, plant based diet, following Dr. Fuhrman's protocol (Nutritarian woe). I eliminated all meat, eggs and most dairy from my diet and focused on really upping my veg/fruit intake, beans (oh my gosh so many beans lol), whole grains etc etc. After a while though I began feeling 'off'. I felt sluggish and run down, was always bloated and I started struggling to maintain my weight due to hunger. Did some spot checking with my macros and realized I was really low fat/protein and I was becoming a bit of a mess. Also during this time I had blood work done and my cholesterol numbers had actually gotten worse! So frustrating, because I thought I was doing everything 'right' and eating the healthiest way possible.

From there I hit a bit of a rough patch where I struggled to get my head back in the right place. Then I heard about the DASH diet and saw that it's a more balanced approach to what I was attempting to do. It still puts a lot of emphasis on plant foods, but includes small amounts of meat and dairy. It's also the plan my husband's doctor has been pushing for him to start, because of his health issues. I started following it a few days ago and the difference in how I feel is remarkable. I still eat a lot of veggies and fruit, whole grains and yes-beans

But, I now have a few ounces of meat and dairy every week and I feel so much better.

Paleo vs Plant based vs low calorie?

Replies

Categories