Low calorie/cardio vs keto/weights
Options
Replies
-
I believed its also because keto has converted you to a more efficient fat burning body type. It used fat to produce ketones to fuel your body instead of fueling your body from glucose which is produced from crab and sugar.
My personal experience with it was great. I was losing weight more consistently, and cardio exercise did not tire me out as much. I couldn't stay on it for long though because I would need to prep for 3 different kind of dietary meal for my family and time just doesn't allow it.
I'm keto and the primary cook in my house too. I find that cooking a few dishes, and making enough for some leftovers seems to cover everyone. The other day we made a spinach lasagne that I only had a couple of bites of, but there was also leftover meat and raw veggies. The next day I made an egg and beef casserole whih the kids weren't keen on so they ate lasagne noodles, left over burger and veggies. The following day I made chicken nuggets and potatoes so I ate the leftover egg casserole. You get the drift.
Keto when no one else is can be a hassle but it is doable if the pay off is worth it for you.
I did want to add that keto does make you slightly more fat burning but the effects are generally not noticeable unless doing some sort of endurance sport - keto'ers no longer hit the wall when others would have run out of glucose. For the more sedentary there is not a great difference - about 6 lbs lost more in a year.5 -
If Keto helps people stick to a calorie deficit or makes them feel more full, then I would call this a fantastic development and applaud it. I think all of us would.
The only problematic aspect is when people come along and attempt to push nonsense claims about the diet or it's supposed magical properties. And, let's be real, MANY keto folks seem unable to contain themselves from launching into total and laughable nonsense. When this happens, naturally they are going to be called on it, as they should be. I am not sure why some proponents consider accepting CICO a form of surrender.12 -
I think the point fjmartini is making (and it frustrates me as well) is as soon as a question pops up about keto or low-carb, the very first response is always someone pooh-poohing it.
e.g.TavistockToad wrote: »Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit. You will always drop some water weight when you start low carb.
TavistockToad didn't answer the question the OP asked, he just dismissed the idea of Keto straight away.13 -
I think the point fjmartini is making (and it frustrates me as well) is as soon as a question pops up about keto or low-carb, the very first response is always someone pooh-poohing it.
e.g.TavistockToad wrote: »Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit. You will always drop some water weight when you start low carb.
TavistockToad didn't answer the question the OP asked, he just dismissed the idea of Keto straight away.
I don't see it as being dismissive. Reaffirming the nuts and bolts of how all diets can lead to weight loss isn't to say that any particular diet is useless.7 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »I think the point fjmartini is making (and it frustrates me as well) is as soon as a question pops up about keto or low-carb, the very first response is always someone pooh-poohing it.
e.g.TavistockToad wrote: »Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit. You will always drop some water weight when you start low carb.
TavistockToad didn't answer the question the OP asked, he just dismissed the idea of Keto straight away.
I don't see it as being dismissive. Reaffirming the nuts and bolts of how all diets can lead to weight loss isn't to say that any particular diet is useless.
Oh I get that, and I agree, but it wasn't a particularly helpful or detailed answer. I'm not here to argue, and fjmartini did fly off the handle, but his point and one I agree with is that is seems like a blanket response to any keto question. That's all really.
I think it's also disappointing that it inevitably ends up with a bust up between keto and CICO causing the thread to be closed and the OP is still as confused as they were to begin with. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, it just never ends up well for the OP.3 -
I don't understand why anyone who talks about the fundamentals of weight loss coming down to a calorie deficit is perceived as not answering the OPs question. I read OPs question to be about her overall experience with both approaches and asking for feedback from others, regardless of whether it mirrors her own results... in my opinion OP seems open to understanding how weight loss actually works and others responding seem only interested in promoting a singular approach if it aligns with their favorite way of eating...8
-
Alatariel75 wrote: »This thread has taught me that keto makes you angry.
Lol, in another thread like this I asked if Keto makes one thin skinned and irritable. I think I have my answer.4 -
I believed its also because keto has converted you to a more efficient fat burning body type. It used fat to produce ketones to fuel your body instead of fueling your body from glucose which is produced from crab and sugar.
My personal experience with it was great. I was losing weight more consistently, and cardio exercise did not tire me out as much. I couldn't stay on it for long though because I would need to prep for 3 different kind of dietary meal for my family and time just doesn't allow it.
I'm keto and the primary cook in my house too. I find that cooking a few dishes, and making enough for some leftovers seems to cover everyone. The other day we made a spinach lasagne that I only had a couple of bites of, but there was also leftover meat and raw veggies. The next day I made an egg and beef casserole whih the kids weren't keen on so they ate lasagne noodles, left over burger and veggies. The following day I made chicken nuggets and potatoes so I ate the leftover egg casserole. You get the drift.
Keto when no one else is can be a hassle but it is doable if the pay off is worth it for you.
I did want to add that keto does make you slightly more fat burning but the effects are generally not noticeable unless doing some sort of endurance sport - keto'ers no longer hit the wall when others would have run out of glucose. For the more sedentary there is not a great difference - about 6 lbs lost more in a year.
Peer reviewed study or meta analysis source that substantiates these claims please?5 -
I think the point fjmartini is making (and it frustrates me as well) is as soon as a question pops up about keto or low-carb, the very first response is always someone pooh-poohing it.
e.g.TavistockToad wrote: »Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit. You will always drop some water weight when you start low carb.
TavistockToad didn't answer the question the OP asked, he just dismissed the idea of Keto straight away.
Well, I think the answer to that is because Keto has never been proven to be advantageous as was noted by psulemon.Kevin Hall has a few studies and Arizona State has one. But outisde of the 3 studies, there are no other studies that hold calories and protein steady. The ones that do that show no difference in fat loss.
If people want to eat Keto, that is up to them but there is absolutely no demonstrable metabolic advantage. I also think there is a certain fatigue factor regarding the number of threads that come up on this subject and the sometimes blind fanaticism of proponents of keto as demonstrated in this thread. Lot's of claims with no evidence presented gets tiresome really.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I don't understand why anyone who talks about the fundamentals of weight loss coming down to a calorie deficit is perceived as not answering the OPs question. I read OPs question to be about her overall experience with both approaches and asking for feedback from others, regardless of whether it mirrors her own results... in my opinion OP seems open to understanding how weight loss actually works and others responding seem only interested in promoting a singular approach if it aligns with their favorite way of eating...
Maybe people just read it differently? What I took from the question was, why did CICO work when she was younger and not now, but keto does work? If they both stem from calorie deficit why is CICO less effective later in life [for the OP]? Simply stating weight loss comes from a calorie deficit, doesn't answer the question. It seems like she already knew that part.
ETA I know I haven't answered her question, I don't have an answer, I was reading along to see if someone could answer it.1 -
I think the point fjmartini is making (and it frustrates me as well) is as soon as a question pops up about keto or low-carb, the very first response is always someone pooh-poohing it.
e.g.TavistockToad wrote: »Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit. You will always drop some water weight when you start low carb.
TavistockToad didn't answer the question the OP asked, he just dismissed the idea of Keto straight away.
OP asked if anyone could explain why low cal worked for her when she was younger and not when she was older. Then she asked for opinions and experiences. Some people chose to explain that the reason you lose weight is always CICO. And that depending on how long she has been Keto, it might just be a water weight drop. If I were the OP, I would have found that helpful.
Often people give short answers because they know other, more verbose posters will follow. Minus the angry gentleman, I think OP got lots of great insight in the thread as a whole, which is kinda sorta the point, right? Why does every single poster have to give a complete and fully developed reply?1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I don't understand why anyone who talks about the fundamentals of weight loss coming down to a calorie deficit is perceived as not answering the OPs question. I read OPs question to be about her overall experience with both approaches and asking for feedback from others, regardless of whether it mirrors her own results... in my opinion OP seems open to understanding how weight loss actually works and others responding seem only interested in promoting a singular approach if it aligns with their favorite way of eating...
Maybe people just read it differently? What I took from the question was, why did CICO work when she was younger and not now, but keto does work? If they both stem from calorie deficit why is CICO less effective later in life [for the OP]? Simply stating weight loss comes from a calorie deficit, doesn't answer the question. It seems like she already knew that part.
ETA I know I haven't answered her question, I don't have an answer, I was reading along to see if someone could answer it.
She might have had a higher NEAT 20 years ago. I sure did. So when I added exercise on top of an active lifestyle, I lost weight more quickly than I can now with my desk job. I'm sure I also had more muscle 20 years ago.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415
Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT).
Levine JA
Abstract
Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs.
Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT.
Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight.
The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.1 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »I think the point fjmartini is making (and it frustrates me as well) is as soon as a question pops up about keto or low-carb, the very first response is always someone pooh-poohing it.
e.g.TavistockToad wrote: »Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit. You will always drop some water weight when you start low carb.
TavistockToad didn't answer the question the OP asked, he just dismissed the idea of Keto straight away.
I don't see it as being dismissive. Reaffirming the nuts and bolts of how all diets can lead to weight loss isn't to say that any particular diet is useless.
Oh I get that, and I agree, but it wasn't a particularly helpful or detailed answer. I'm not here to argue, and fjmartini did fly off the handle, but his point and one I agree with is that is seems like a blanket response to any keto question. That's all really.
I think it's also disappointing that it inevitably ends up with a bust up between keto and CICO causing the thread to be closed and the OP is still as confused as they were to begin with. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, it just never ends up well for the OP.
What frustrates me to no end is this continued misunderstanding that people have that CICO is a diet, a way of eating, means eat nothing but junk and still lose weight, etc. CICO is an energy balance. If one is losing weight doing keto, they are still following CICO, since it is the fundamental way that everyone loses, maintains, or gains weight.
Pointing that out to OP and others does not mean bashing keto, or any other way a person is eating. The OP believes she's losing weight faster doing keto than she was with her low calorie approach. Pointing out that the calorie deficit is still required and that short term rapid results are often because of glycogen and will level off is not dismissing keto, it is helping someone who may be confused better understand the fundamentals of weight loss. Because again, just to be clear, weight loss comes down to a calorie deficit. If OP and others enjoy following a ketogenic diet, find it sustainable and get good results, more power to them. But for weight loss, there is no long term advantage to the approach, so letting people know that, especially when there is a certain amount of fanaticism from many of the keto proponents, is important. There's enough misinformation out there about weight loss. Reminding people of the fundamentals can never be stated often enough, in my opinion.12 -
I think the point fjmartini is making (and it frustrates me as well) is as soon as a question pops up about keto or low-carb, the very first response is always someone pooh-poohing it.
e.g.TavistockToad wrote: »Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit. You will always drop some water weight when you start low carb.
TavistockToad didn't answer the question the OP asked, he just dismissed the idea of Keto straight away.
OP asked if anyone could explain why low cal worked for her when she was younger and not when she was older. Then she asked for opinions and experiences. Some people chose to explain that the reason you lose weight is always CICO. And that depending on how long she has been Keto, it might just be a water weight drop. If I were the OP, I would have found that helpful.
Often people give short answers because they know other, more verbose posters will follow. Minus the angry gentleman, I think OP got lots of great insight in the thread as a whole, which is kinda sorta the point, right? Why does every single poster have to give a complete and fully developed reply?
I agree! I thought your responses were among the most useful if I'm honest. I was just trying to explain why the angry man was so angry.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »I think the point fjmartini is making (and it frustrates me as well) is as soon as a question pops up about keto or low-carb, the very first response is always someone pooh-poohing it.
e.g.TavistockToad wrote: »Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit. You will always drop some water weight when you start low carb.
TavistockToad didn't answer the question the OP asked, he just dismissed the idea of Keto straight away.
I don't see it as being dismissive. Reaffirming the nuts and bolts of how all diets can lead to weight loss isn't to say that any particular diet is useless.
Oh I get that, and I agree, but it wasn't a particularly helpful or detailed answer. I'm not here to argue, and fjmartini did fly off the handle, but his point and one I agree with is that is seems like a blanket response to any keto question. That's all really.
I think it's also disappointing that it inevitably ends up with a bust up between keto and CICO causing the thread to be closed and the OP is still as confused as they were to begin with. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, it just never ends up well for the OP.
What frustrates me to no end is this continued misunderstanding that people have that CICO is a diet, a way of eating, means eat nothing but junk and still lose weight, etc. CICO is an energy balance. If one is losing weight doing keto, they are still following CICO, since it is the fundamental way that everyone loses, maintains, or gains weight.
Pointing that out to OP and others does not mean bashing keto, or any other way a person is eating. The OP believes she's losing weight faster doing keto than she was with her low calorie approach. Pointing out that the calorie deficit is still required and that short term rapid results are often because of glycogen and will level off is not dismissing keto, it is helping someone who may be confused better understand the fundamentals of weight loss. Because again, just to be clear, weight loss comes down to a calorie deficit. If OP and others enjoy following a ketogenic diet, find it sustainable and get good results, more power to them. But for weight loss, there is no long term advantage to the approach, so letting people know that, especially when there is a certain amount of fanaticism from many of the keto proponents, is important. There's enough misinformation out there about weight loss. Reminding people of the fundamentals can never be stated often enough, in my opinion.
Amen to that! I still don't have any answer for the OP, but I hope she found some of this helpful, and like you said, if she finds it sustainable, then keep going!2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I don't understand why anyone who talks about the fundamentals of weight loss coming down to a calorie deficit is perceived as not answering the OPs question. I read OPs question to be about her overall experience with both approaches and asking for feedback from others, regardless of whether it mirrors her own results... in my opinion OP seems open to understanding how weight loss actually works and others responding seem only interested in promoting a singular approach if it aligns with their favorite way of eating...
Maybe people just read it differently? What I took from the question was, why did CICO work when she was younger and not now, but keto does work? If they both stem from calorie deficit why is CICO less effective later in life [for the OP]? Simply stating weight loss comes from a calorie deficit, doesn't answer the question. It seems like she already knew that part.
ETA I know I haven't answered her question, I don't have an answer, I was reading along to see if someone could answer it.
She might have had a higher NEAT 20 years ago. I sure did. So when I added exercise on top of an active lifestyle, I lost weight more quickly than I can now with my desk job. I'm sure I also had more muscle 20 years ago.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415
Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT).
Levine JA
Abstract
Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs.
Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT.
Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight.
The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.
I'm glad you explained NEAT. I was about to get my Google on. Thank you!
1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I don't understand why anyone who talks about the fundamentals of weight loss coming down to a calorie deficit is perceived as not answering the OPs question. I read OPs question to be about her overall experience with both approaches and asking for feedback from others, regardless of whether it mirrors her own results... in my opinion OP seems open to understanding how weight loss actually works and others responding seem only interested in promoting a singular approach if it aligns with their favorite way of eating...
Maybe people just read it differently? What I took from the question was, why did CICO work when she was younger and not now, but keto does work? If they both stem from calorie deficit why is CICO less effective later in life [for the OP]? Simply stating weight loss comes from a calorie deficit, doesn't answer the question. It seems like she already knew that part.
ETA I know I haven't answered her question, I don't have an answer, I was reading along to see if someone could answer it.
I asked the OP some questions to try to clarify so I could answer her original question, and I must admit, I missed her response in the noise of the fighting that ensued.
OP you said you were doing 1500 cals and you measured your food and you weren't eating back exercise cals because you didn't trust treadmill estimates, right? When you say you measured your food, were you using a food scale, or cups and spoons?
You also said OP that maybe you had unrealistic expectations, I think you said you were losing 1 lb/week but wanted it to be faster, is that right? How much weight are you trying to lose? Because 1 lb/week is great! And if you have less than 25 lbs to lose then 0.5 lb/week would be an appropriate goal.
Bottom line OP - if you enjoy eating keto and weight lifting and are getting good results then keep it up! But you can lift weights and eat low or moderate carbs too (doesn't have to be keto) and in the context of a calorie deficit you will still lose weight. If you enjoy the treadmill, you don't have to stop doing cardio. It's really about finding an approach to diet and fitness that you enjoy and think you can continue with, not about figuring out the fastest way to your goal and then returning to previous ways of eating or less exercise. That's what you should be focusing on, not trying to figure out why something that worked in the past isn't working as well for you now...0 -
I think the point fjmartini is making (and it frustrates me as well) is as soon as a question pops up about keto or low-carb, the very first response is always someone pooh-poohing it.
e.g.TavistockToad wrote: »Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit. You will always drop some water weight when you start low carb.
TavistockToad didn't answer the question the OP asked, he just dismissed the idea of Keto straight away.
OP asked if anyone could explain why low cal worked for her when she was younger and not when she was older. Then she asked for opinions and experiences. Some people chose to explain that the reason you lose weight is always CICO. And that depending on how long she has been Keto, it might just be a water weight drop. If I were the OP, I would have found that helpful.
Often people give short answers because they know other, more verbose posters will follow. Minus the angry gentleman, I think OP got lots of great insight in the thread as a whole, which is kinda sorta the point, right? Why does every single poster have to give a complete and fully developed reply?
I agree! I thought your responses were among the most useful if I'm honest. I was just trying to explain why the angry man was so angry.
Why defend someone who called a lot of patient, knowledgeable, helpful veteran posters names?10 -
I believed its also because keto has converted you to a more efficient fat burning body type. It used fat to produce ketones to fuel your body instead of fueling your body from glucose which is produced from crab and sugar.
My personal experience with it was great. I was losing weight more consistently, and cardio exercise did not tire me out as much. I couldn't stay on it for long though because I would need to prep for 3 different kind of dietary meal for my family and time just doesn't allow it.
I'm keto and the primary cook in my house too. I find that cooking a few dishes, and making enough for some leftovers seems to cover everyone. The other day we made a spinach lasagne that I only had a couple of bites of, but there was also leftover meat and raw veggies. The next day I made an egg and beef casserole whih the kids weren't keen on so they ate lasagne noodles, left over burger and veggies. The following day I made chicken nuggets and potatoes so I ate the leftover egg casserole. You get the drift.
Keto when no one else is can be a hassle but it is doable if the pay off is worth it for you.
I did want to add that keto does make you slightly more fat burning but the effects are generally not noticeable unless doing some sort of endurance sport - keto'ers no longer hit the wall when others would have run out of glucose. For the more sedentary there is not a great difference - about 6 lbs lost more in a year.
Peer reviewed study or meta analysis source that substantiates these claims please?
For increased fat burning in endurance athletes: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049515003340
I generally don't bookmark studies unless they pertain to my own health issues. I remembered the FASTER study because it is new and I follow Volek.
For the ~6lb weight loss being greater than higher carb among the more average, I can not remember where I read it. But this collection of studies repeats similar numbers: http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets#section2 Study #20 is probably the closest to what I remember. 6lbs in a year is not a big difference. Most low carb for weight loss studies that stop at 3-6 months look much more impressive.0 -
OP, its likely that low cal worked for you before because you had a higher TDEE.
Keto is likely working for you now because protein and fat tend to be the most filling macros, thus your okay on a lower calorie amount. Where as when you did low cal recently, you likely stayed away from most fats as they are more calorie dense.
As for strength training, its fun! A half hour zooms by. Cardio is like cardi-no. Half hour on a treadmill feels like a life time.3
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.5K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 391 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 922 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions