Ketogenic diet

1246741

Replies

  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,577 Member
    No for me. I don't like restrictions.
  • bweath2
    bweath2 Posts: 147 Member
    @lemurcat12 I've always thought that maybe I was IR, although my labs are always good. Would it make sense that I have MUCH more energy on keto even at a lower caloric intake because of my high BF%? I'm 5' 11" 285lb. and about 180lb. LBM.
    Previously when I lost weight, my energy was not as high when I was close to 225lbs.
  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
    It's a little late in the thread for this post but the ISSN's position statement has a worthwhile overview of diet types. Here's some of what they say regarding ketogenic diets:

    "If there is any advantage to KD over non-KD for fat loss, it is potentially in the realm of appetite regulation. Under non-calorically restricted conditions, KD has consistently resulted in body fat and/or body weight reduction [65, 66, 67, 68, 69]. This occurs via spontaneous energy intake reduction, which could be due to increased satiety through a suppression of ghrelin production [70].

    Moreover, KD has demonstrated hunger-suppressive effects independent of protein content. In a 4-week crossover design, Johnstone et al. [66] found that a KD consumed ad libitum (without purposeful caloric restriction) resulted in an energy intake reduction of 294 kcal/day. The latter results were seen despite a relatively high protein intake (30% of energy) matched between KD (4% CHO) and non-KD (35% CHO) conditions. In further support of this idea, a meta-analysis by Gibson et al. [71] found that KD suppresses appetite more than VLED. However, it remains unclear whether the appetite suppression is due to ketosis or other factors such as an increased protein or fat intake, or restriction of carbohydrate."


    gO7Lv4k.jpg

    Source
  • bweath2
    bweath2 Posts: 147 Member
    @AlabasterVerve
    @psuLemon
    The studies you refer to seem to show that in random groups of participants, keto diets and non- keto diets have a similar average combined result. Seems there would be an equal number IR and IS in both groups for example.
    Do you know of any studies that looked at individual responses on keto vs. high carb? An entire group on keto, then on high carb? Curious if as individuals some people lose more fat on keto and some on higher carb. all other factors being equal.
  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
    edited September 2017
    Doubt it, but check out Christopher Gardner's diet studies. His A to Z study is where the original IS/low fat, IR/low carb hypothesis came from I believe. His follow up RCT to test that theory controlled for diet quality and showed no benefit.

    Research is ongoing but I wouldn't put too much stock into the notion insulin sensitivity/resistance plays too much of a part in one diet being better for weightloss than another. Diet quality and adherence is where it's at, IMO.

    ETA: If you do have any markers for metabolic syndrome I think it's extremely foolish given the current research not to restrict your carbs at least somewhat and to avoid refined carbohydrate (and possibly industrial seed oils too) as much as possible - hyperinsulimia is no joke.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    bweath2 wrote: »
    @AlabasterVerve
    @psuLemon
    The studies you refer to seem to show that in random groups of participants, keto diets and non- keto diets have a similar average combined result. Seems there would be an equal number IR and IS in both groups for example.
    Do you know of any studies that looked at individual responses on keto vs. high carb? An entire group on keto, then on high carb? Curious if as individuals some people lose more fat on keto and some on higher carb. all other factors being equal.

    Check this out:

    http://caloriesproper.com/insulin-resistance-is-a-spectrum/

    http://caloriesproper.com/chris-gardner-strikes-again/
    At baseline, patients were divided into insulin sensitive & resistant groups based on insulin levels (AUC) during an oral glucose tolerance test. Then those groups were assigned to either a low fat or low carb diet. There were four groups, three time points (baseline, 3 months, and 6 months).


    To make a long story short, insulin sensitive patients randomized to the low fat diet lost about 20% more weight than those randomized to low carb.... Insulin resistant dieters lost more weight on low carb...

    Not all the studies are like this, but there are a number that are. I would not be at all surprised if it's due to better compliance, and also would not be surprised if it's because of energy and resulting TDEE to some degree.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,058 MFP Moderator
    edited September 2017
    bweath2 wrote: »
    @AlabasterVerve
    @psuLemon
    The studies you refer to seem to show that in random groups of participants, keto diets and non- keto diets have a similar average combined result. Seems there would be an equal number IR and IS in both groups for example.
    Do you know of any studies that looked at individual responses on keto vs. high carb? An entire group on keto, then on high carb? Curious if as individuals some people lose more fat on keto and some on higher carb. all other factors being equal.

    Unfortunately, there seems to be limited amounts of research regarding keto diets. I think it would definitely be worthwhile, but it's speculation at best currently.


    here is the study I was referencing earlier.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2005.79/full



  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,058 MFP Moderator
    Doubt it, but check out Christopher Gardner's diet studies. His A to Z study is where the original IS/low fat, IR/low carb hypothesis came from I believe. His follow up RCT to test that theory controlled for diet quality and showed no benefit.

    Research is ongoing but I wouldn't put too much stock into the notion insulin sensitivity/resistance plays too much of a part in one diet being better for weightloss than another. Diet quality and adherence is where it's at, IMO.

    ETA: If you do have any markers for metabolic syndrome I think it's extremely foolish given the current research not to restrict your carbs at least somewhat and to avoid refined carbohydrate (and possibly industrial seed oils too) as much as possible - hyperinsulimia is no joke.

    I couldn't agree with you any more. I know i focus on diet quality. My greater focus is just eating foods that are filling. For me, it's proteins and high GI fruits and starchy foods. I cut fats as my immediate approach to weight loss, but try to incorporate fish and avocado as much as I can.

    I also agree that many with MS would be foolish to not cut carbs.