Diet Coke, friend or foe?
Replies
-
This content has been removed.
-
This content has been removed.
-
There's an (obvious) big difference between saying than some things should be limited (if you have a tendency to overdo them, at least) and saying they are 100% harmful and should be avoided.
Saying that sugar is harmful and should be avoided in all cases (as people often do, just as much as others say that artificial sweeteners are scary) was what stevencloser was (obviously, really you can't have actually misunderstood this) referring to.
That's not the same thing as what the AHA is saying. (People who think sugar is the root of all (dietary) evil often complain that the AHA is too soft on sugar.)
Bigger point: it's silly to say that diet soda is bad because it has not been proven to be 100% not harmful and yet that regular soda is fine. Your own AHA link is one reason why that is so.2 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »I agree that nothing is 100% safe, yet any time I mention questioning the safety of artificial sweeteners I am told I'm wrong and they have been proven to be completely safe...so what exactly are we debating? Semantics?
Science has proven them to be just as safe as anything else we eat or drink. I haven't seen studies which conclusively prove that tap water is 100% safe under all conditions for everybody everywhere either, but I'm not afraid to drink it when I'm thirsty.
If you look hard enough, you can find tinfoil hat fearmongerers who claim that virtually anything is unsafe or bad for you. If you believe all of them and the "studies" they quote, you'd not only rule out artificial sweeteners, but also all meat (hormones, bacteria, teh cancerz and undigested meat somehow rotting in your gut), milk (pus-filled death in a glass), all carbs (teh insulinz and teh diabeetus), any and every non-organically grown fruit and vegetable (pesticides), tap water (fluoride, industrial pollutants), bottled water (BPAs and generating excess waste products)....the list goes on and on. By the time you get to the point where you're only eating foods which are consensus choices as "100% safe", your options are looking pretty limited.
I guess you'd probably be okay as long as you can subsist off dewdrops you collect from the leaves of plants high atop the Himalayas. I haven't seen anybody call those unsafe yet.
You're right, you can find people who will say just about anything is unhealthy/unsafe. I will avoid BPA, pesticides, growth hormones etc if I can, but sometimes it is hard to do. Avoiding artificial sweeteners is extremely easy...just buy the "regular" version of soda etc and you avoid them. They are the same price and in the same location...it's just a matter of reaching for the diet or regular soda (better yet, don't reach for either).
Btw...I love how you go to such extremes at the end of your post...classic.
Ah but haven't you read all the horrible things sugar does to you? It'll slit your throat in your sleep.
/
The American Heart Association states you should limit added sugar. I think they may have a little credibility.
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/HealthyLiving/HealthyEating/Nutrition/Added-Sugars_UCM_305858_Article.jsp#.Wc-D9VtSyM8
Yeah because foods with lots of sugar have lots of calories and often little micronutrients as opposed to fruit and veggies. Not because it's directly bad for your health. Your link says as much. And the WHO recommends limiting added sugar for the same reason plus tooth decay.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I agree that nothing is 100% safe, yet any time I mention questioning the safety of artificial sweeteners I am told I'm wrong and they have been proven to be completely safe...so what exactly are we debating? Semantics?
They have not been proven to do harm, which in the real world is the best you can do. So if you avoid artificial sweetener because it isn't proven to be 100% safe, and you agree that nothing is 100% safe, why do you avoid artificial sweetener? Serious question, I honestly don't understand at this point.
I avoid them because I have read enough and spoken to enough people to make me have my doubts about them...it's not worth the possible risk for me. If I want to enjoy a soda (if I have 1 soda a month that would be a lot), I just assume have the real thing. I rarely drink soda anyways...I'd rather drink water because soda just makes me thirstier. I also avoid artificial sweeteners because I think it tastes horrible and gives me a weird tingling feeling in my mouth.
So it sounds to me like you normally drank regular soda before you decided to (mostly) quit and don't care for diet. That's a really good reason not to consume them. I don't think anyone is claiming you should (or even caring if you privately believe something they consider irrational).
For the record, some things I do personally that I would not insist are other than my own quirks: I happen to avoid a lot of things mostly because they are just not how I like to eat or I have environmental issues with them. I get grassfed or pastured meat and try to avoid industrial farmed (but know this is more expensive for many so wouldn't insist it's necessary or better for anyone but me and my preferences). I don't really approve of corn being in everything, for example, so I tend to avoid things that have HFCS and corn oil, etc. I think soy is in too much so generally avoid things with soy added where you wouldn't expect it, although I eat tofu and tempeh and soy beans (and make some exceptions for foods I eat occasionally that have soy, like a Quest bar), and for the most part I don't eat foods that have lots of ingredients because I prefer cooking for myself or using standard items like dried pasta that have been common for a long time. BUT, and I consider this a really important distinction, I acknowledge this is about my own preferences and NOT me being healthier than others or that there's any good evidence to think that consuming something with HFCS will be harmful (in reasonable amounts, of course).
I also (like you and I assume like most people) don't consume foods I dislike. For example, I think putting sweetener in coffee is disgusting. However, I don't feel compelled to tell people who do like them that I read on FB that sweetener in coffee (sugar or otherwise) is really bad for you and that I avoid it for that reason. Instead, I simply don't comment on it, for the most part, since of course the reason I do not consume it is that I dislike it.
It almost seems like you may be a little jealous that some people can consume soda whenever they want without worrying about it, since the soda they enjoy is calorie free (or close enough to it that it does not matter).
While I don't necessarily agree with all you said in your post, I truly do appreciate the fact that you can disagree in a mature, respectful way without resorting to immature, derogatory remarks as many people here often do. Thank you.
I too like to try and avoid many of the things you mentioned (corn, soy etc). It is my personal preference that I do for health and environmental reasons. I don't post about these things because the topic rarely/never comes up.
I am in no way jealous of people who drink soda...I can drink it whenever I want (and do for that matter). I do not count calories, as I am fit, in shape, and at a normal, healthy weight. I used to count them, but then I realized that simply eating a little healthier and being more active was much easier, less stressful and more effective (but I never had much of a problem of over eating to begin with). So I'm not jealous of anyone as I have achieved my goal and am exactly where I want to be in terms of weight and health.
I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with my posts. I'm simply sharing my opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right for everyone (obviously it's not), I'm just sharing what I belive.
If someone comes to MFP and is completely clueless about everything health/food related they will read posts (artificial sweeteners for example) where everyone says the same thing because that is the general consensus (which is fine). All I am doing is sharing the other side of the coin because, believe it or not, there are people who don't always agree with the majority (especially in today's world). There is more than one way of thinking and I don't think it's wrong to present the opinions of the other side, as unscientific as many believe them to be. (Just because we don't always agree with the majority does not make us crazy, tin foil hat wearing individuals who believe the earth is flat...that's pretty immature for certain individuals to keep saying that. )
Everyone can go and enjoy diet soda...it doesn't bother me. I'm glad people found something they enjoy. I don't choose to partake because I don't agree with artificial sweeteners, but anyone is more than welcome to. I am simply presenting the other side so people can make their own decisions and realize there is an oposing view.9 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I agree that nothing is 100% safe, yet any time I mention questioning the safety of artificial sweeteners I am told I'm wrong and they have been proven to be completely safe...so what exactly are we debating? Semantics?
They have not been proven to do harm, which in the real world is the best you can do. So if you avoid artificial sweetener because it isn't proven to be 100% safe, and you agree that nothing is 100% safe, why do you avoid artificial sweetener? Serious question, I honestly don't understand at this point.
I avoid them because I have read enough and spoken to enough people to make me have my doubts about them...it's not worth the possible risk for me. If I want to enjoy a soda (if I have 1 soda a month that would be a lot), I just assume have the real thing. I rarely drink soda anyways...I'd rather drink water because soda just makes me thirstier. I also avoid artificial sweeteners because I think it tastes horrible and gives me a weird tingling feeling in my mouth.
So it sounds to me like you normally drank regular soda before you decided to (mostly) quit and don't care for diet. That's a really good reason not to consume them. I don't think anyone is claiming you should (or even caring if you privately believe something they consider irrational).
For the record, some things I do personally that I would not insist are other than my own quirks: I happen to avoid a lot of things mostly because they are just not how I like to eat or I have environmental issues with them. I get grassfed or pastured meat and try to avoid industrial farmed (but know this is more expensive for many so wouldn't insist it's necessary or better for anyone but me and my preferences). I don't really approve of corn being in everything, for example, so I tend to avoid things that have HFCS and corn oil, etc. I think soy is in too much so generally avoid things with soy added where you wouldn't expect it, although I eat tofu and tempeh and soy beans (and make some exceptions for foods I eat occasionally that have soy, like a Quest bar), and for the most part I don't eat foods that have lots of ingredients because I prefer cooking for myself or using standard items like dried pasta that have been common for a long time. BUT, and I consider this a really important distinction, I acknowledge this is about my own preferences and NOT me being healthier than others or that there's any good evidence to think that consuming something with HFCS will be harmful (in reasonable amounts, of course).
I also (like you and I assume like most people) don't consume foods I dislike. For example, I think putting sweetener in coffee is disgusting. However, I don't feel compelled to tell people who do like them that I read on FB that sweetener in coffee (sugar or otherwise) is really bad for you and that I avoid it for that reason. Instead, I simply don't comment on it, for the most part, since of course the reason I do not consume it is that I dislike it.
It almost seems like you may be a little jealous that some people can consume soda whenever they want without worrying about it, since the soda they enjoy is calorie free (or close enough to it that it does not matter).
While I don't necessarily agree with all you said in your post, I truly do appreciate the fact that you can disagree in a mature, respectful way without resorting to immature, derogatory remarks as many people here often do. Thank you.
I too like to try and avoid many of the things you mentioned (corn, soy etc). It is my personal preference that I do for health and environmental reasons. I don't post about these things because the topic rarely/never comes up.
I am in no way jealous of people who drink soda...I can drink it whenever I want (and do for that matter). I do not count calories, as I am fit, in shape, and at a normal, healthy weight. I used to count them, but then I realized that simply eating a little healthier and being more active was much easier, less stressful and more effective (but I never had much of a problem of over eating to begin with). So I'm not jealous of anyone as I have achieved my goal and am exactly where I want to be in terms of weight and health.
I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with my posts. I'm simply sharing my opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right for everyone (obviously it's not), I'm just sharing what I belive.
If someone comes to MFP and is completely clueless about everything health/food related they will read posts (artificial sweeteners for example) where everyone says the same thing because that is the general consensus (which is fine). All I am doing is sharing the other side of the coin because, believe it or not, there are people who don't always agree with the majority (especially in today's world). There is more than one way of thinking and I don't think it's wrong to present the opinions of the other side, as unscientific as many believe them to be. (Just because we don't always agree with the majority does not make us crazy, tin foil hat wearing individuals who believe the earth is flat...that's pretty immature for certain individuals to keep saying that. )
Everyone can go and enjoy diet soda...it doesn't bother me. I'm glad people found something they enjoy. I don't choose to partake because I don't agree with artificial sweeteners, but anyone is more than welcome to. I am simply presenting the other side so people can make their own decisions and realize there is an oposing view.lemurcat12 wrote: »I agree that nothing is 100% safe, yet any time I mention questioning the safety of artificial sweeteners I am told I'm wrong and they have been proven to be completely safe...so what exactly are we debating? Semantics?
They have not been proven to do harm, which in the real world is the best you can do. So if you avoid artificial sweetener because it isn't proven to be 100% safe, and you agree that nothing is 100% safe, why do you avoid artificial sweetener? Serious question, I honestly don't understand at this point.
I avoid them because I have read enough and spoken to enough people to make me have my doubts about them...it's not worth the possible risk for me. If I want to enjoy a soda (if I have 1 soda a month that would be a lot), I just assume have the real thing. I rarely drink soda anyways...I'd rather drink water because soda just makes me thirstier. I also avoid artificial sweeteners because I think it tastes horrible and gives me a weird tingling feeling in my mouth.
So it sounds to me like you normally drank regular soda before you decided to (mostly) quit and don't care for diet. That's a really good reason not to consume them. I don't think anyone is claiming you should (or even caring if you privately believe something they consider irrational).
For the record, some things I do personally that I would not insist are other than my own quirks: I happen to avoid a lot of things mostly because they are just not how I like to eat or I have environmental issues with them. I get grassfed or pastured meat and try to avoid industrial farmed (but know this is more expensive for many so wouldn't insist it's necessary or better for anyone but me and my preferences). I don't really approve of corn being in everything, for example, so I tend to avoid things that have HFCS and corn oil, etc. I think soy is in too much so generally avoid things with soy added where you wouldn't expect it, although I eat tofu and tempeh and soy beans (and make some exceptions for foods I eat occasionally that have soy, like a Quest bar), and for the most part I don't eat foods that have lots of ingredients because I prefer cooking for myself or using standard items like dried pasta that have been common for a long time. BUT, and I consider this a really important distinction, I acknowledge this is about my own preferences and NOT me being healthier than others or that there's any good evidence to think that consuming something with HFCS will be harmful (in reasonable amounts, of course).
I also (like you and I assume like most people) don't consume foods I dislike. For example, I think putting sweetener in coffee is disgusting. However, I don't feel compelled to tell people who do like them that I read on FB that sweetener in coffee (sugar or otherwise) is really bad for you and that I avoid it for that reason. Instead, I simply don't comment on it, for the most part, since of course the reason I do not consume it is that I dislike it.
It almost seems like you may be a little jealous that some people can consume soda whenever they want without worrying about it, since the soda they enjoy is calorie free (or close enough to it that it does not matter).
While I don't necessarily agree with all you said in your post, I truly do appreciate the fact that you can disagree in a mature, respectful way without resorting to immature, derogatory remarks as many people here often do. Thank you.
I too like to try and avoid many of the things you mentioned (corn, soy etc). It is my personal preference that I do for health and environmental reasons. I don't post about these things because the topic rarely/never comes up.
I am in no way jealous of people who drink soda...I can drink it whenever I want (and do for that matter). I do not count calories, as I am fit, in shape, and at a normal, healthy weight. I used to count them, but then I realized that simply eating a little healthier and being more active was much easier, less stressful and more effective (but I never had much of a problem of over eating to begin with). So I'm not jealous of anyone as I have achieved my goal and am exactly where I want to be in terms of weight and health.
I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with my posts. I'm simply sharing my opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right for everyone (obviously it's not), I'm just sharing what I belive.
If someone comes to MFP and is completely clueless about everything health/food related they will read posts (artificial sweeteners for example) where everyone says the same thing because that is the general consensus (which is fine). All I am doing is sharing the other side of the coin because, believe it or not, there are people who don't always agree with the majority (especially in today's world). There is more than one way of thinking and I don't think it's wrong to present the opinions of the other side, as unscientific as many believe them to be. (Just because we don't always agree with the majority does not make us crazy, tin foil hat wearing individuals who believe the earth is flat...that's pretty immature for certain individuals to keep saying that. )
Everyone can go and enjoy diet soda...it doesn't bother me. I'm glad people found something they enjoy. I don't choose to partake because I don't agree with artificial sweeteners, but anyone is more than welcome to. I am simply presenting the other side so people can make their own decisions and realize there is an oposing view.
No, what's truly immature is to irrationally cling to false beliefs despite unequivocal and unambiguous evidence to the contrary. It's not a matter of having an "opinion", as you keep saying, it's a matter of willful ignorance. That is the crux of why you are running into difficulty in this thread, and if it's a systemic trait in your thinking, I would imagine difficulty with life in general.
And while it is true that new users often peruse these threads for information and they often show up in Google searches, it would be a disservice to such readers to not call paranoid nonsense and fear-mongering exactly what it is.8 -
I have enjoyed reading all the posts on diet drinks. I think it boils down to that you have to decide what is best for you. Personally, I enjoy an A & W diet root beer, diet Cherry Pepsi or Crystal Lite. I try to drink 8 - 10 glasses of water a day...not to include the diet drinks if I have one. Water is so much better for your body, but the diet drinks taste so much better!0
-
JustRobby1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I agree that nothing is 100% safe, yet any time I mention questioning the safety of artificial sweeteners I am told I'm wrong and they have been proven to be completely safe...so what exactly are we debating? Semantics?
They have not been proven to do harm, which in the real world is the best you can do. So if you avoid artificial sweetener because it isn't proven to be 100% safe, and you agree that nothing is 100% safe, why do you avoid artificial sweetener? Serious question, I honestly don't understand at this point.
I avoid them because I have read enough and spoken to enough people to make me have my doubts about them...it's not worth the possible risk for me. If I want to enjoy a soda (if I have 1 soda a month that would be a lot), I just assume have the real thing. I rarely drink soda anyways...I'd rather drink water because soda just makes me thirstier. I also avoid artificial sweeteners because I think it tastes horrible and gives me a weird tingling feeling in my mouth.
So it sounds to me like you normally drank regular soda before you decided to (mostly) quit and don't care for diet. That's a really good reason not to consume them. I don't think anyone is claiming you should (or even caring if you privately believe something they consider irrational).
For the record, some things I do personally that I would not insist are other than my own quirks: I happen to avoid a lot of things mostly because they are just not how I like to eat or I have environmental issues with them. I get grassfed or pastured meat and try to avoid industrial farmed (but know this is more expensive for many so wouldn't insist it's necessary or better for anyone but me and my preferences). I don't really approve of corn being in everything, for example, so I tend to avoid things that have HFCS and corn oil, etc. I think soy is in too much so generally avoid things with soy added where you wouldn't expect it, although I eat tofu and tempeh and soy beans (and make some exceptions for foods I eat occasionally that have soy, like a Quest bar), and for the most part I don't eat foods that have lots of ingredients because I prefer cooking for myself or using standard items like dried pasta that have been common for a long time. BUT, and I consider this a really important distinction, I acknowledge this is about my own preferences and NOT me being healthier than others or that there's any good evidence to think that consuming something with HFCS will be harmful (in reasonable amounts, of course).
I also (like you and I assume like most people) don't consume foods I dislike. For example, I think putting sweetener in coffee is disgusting. However, I don't feel compelled to tell people who do like them that I read on FB that sweetener in coffee (sugar or otherwise) is really bad for you and that I avoid it for that reason. Instead, I simply don't comment on it, for the most part, since of course the reason I do not consume it is that I dislike it.
It almost seems like you may be a little jealous that some people can consume soda whenever they want without worrying about it, since the soda they enjoy is calorie free (or close enough to it that it does not matter).
While I don't necessarily agree with all you said in your post, I truly do appreciate the fact that you can disagree in a mature, respectful way without resorting to immature, derogatory remarks as many people here often do. Thank you.
I too like to try and avoid many of the things you mentioned (corn, soy etc). It is my personal preference that I do for health and environmental reasons. I don't post about these things because the topic rarely/never comes up.
I am in no way jealous of people who drink soda...I can drink it whenever I want (and do for that matter). I do not count calories, as I am fit, in shape, and at a normal, healthy weight. I used to count them, but then I realized that simply eating a little healthier and being more active was much easier, less stressful and more effective (but I never had much of a problem of over eating to begin with). So I'm not jealous of anyone as I have achieved my goal and am exactly where I want to be in terms of weight and health.
I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with my posts. I'm simply sharing my opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right for everyone (obviously it's not), I'm just sharing what I belive.
If someone comes to MFP and is completely clueless about everything health/food related they will read posts (artificial sweeteners for example) where everyone says the same thing because that is the general consensus (which is fine). All I am doing is sharing the other side of the coin because, believe it or not, there are people who don't always agree with the majority (especially in today's world). There is more than one way of thinking and I don't think it's wrong to present the opinions of the other side, as unscientific as many believe them to be. (Just because we don't always agree with the majority does not make us crazy, tin foil hat wearing individuals who believe the earth is flat...that's pretty immature for certain individuals to keep saying that. )
Everyone can go and enjoy diet soda...it doesn't bother me. I'm glad people found something they enjoy. I don't choose to partake because I don't agree with artificial sweeteners, but anyone is more than welcome to. I am simply presenting the other side so people can make their own decisions and realize there is an oposing view.lemurcat12 wrote: »I agree that nothing is 100% safe, yet any time I mention questioning the safety of artificial sweeteners I am told I'm wrong and they have been proven to be completely safe...so what exactly are we debating? Semantics?
They have not been proven to do harm, which in the real world is the best you can do. So if you avoid artificial sweetener because it isn't proven to be 100% safe, and you agree that nothing is 100% safe, why do you avoid artificial sweetener? Serious question, I honestly don't understand at this point.
I avoid them because I have read enough and spoken to enough people to make me have my doubts about them...it's not worth the possible risk for me. If I want to enjoy a soda (if I have 1 soda a month that would be a lot), I just assume have the real thing. I rarely drink soda anyways...I'd rather drink water because soda just makes me thirstier. I also avoid artificial sweeteners because I think it tastes horrible and gives me a weird tingling feeling in my mouth.
So it sounds to me like you normally drank regular soda before you decided to (mostly) quit and don't care for diet. That's a really good reason not to consume them. I don't think anyone is claiming you should (or even caring if you privately believe something they consider irrational).
For the record, some things I do personally that I would not insist are other than my own quirks: I happen to avoid a lot of things mostly because they are just not how I like to eat or I have environmental issues with them. I get grassfed or pastured meat and try to avoid industrial farmed (but know this is more expensive for many so wouldn't insist it's necessary or better for anyone but me and my preferences). I don't really approve of corn being in everything, for example, so I tend to avoid things that have HFCS and corn oil, etc. I think soy is in too much so generally avoid things with soy added where you wouldn't expect it, although I eat tofu and tempeh and soy beans (and make some exceptions for foods I eat occasionally that have soy, like a Quest bar), and for the most part I don't eat foods that have lots of ingredients because I prefer cooking for myself or using standard items like dried pasta that have been common for a long time. BUT, and I consider this a really important distinction, I acknowledge this is about my own preferences and NOT me being healthier than others or that there's any good evidence to think that consuming something with HFCS will be harmful (in reasonable amounts, of course).
I also (like you and I assume like most people) don't consume foods I dislike. For example, I think putting sweetener in coffee is disgusting. However, I don't feel compelled to tell people who do like them that I read on FB that sweetener in coffee (sugar or otherwise) is really bad for you and that I avoid it for that reason. Instead, I simply don't comment on it, for the most part, since of course the reason I do not consume it is that I dislike it.
It almost seems like you may be a little jealous that some people can consume soda whenever they want without worrying about it, since the soda they enjoy is calorie free (or close enough to it that it does not matter).
While I don't necessarily agree with all you said in your post, I truly do appreciate the fact that you can disagree in a mature, respectful way without resorting to immature, derogatory remarks as many people here often do. Thank you.
I too like to try and avoid many of the things you mentioned (corn, soy etc). It is my personal preference that I do for health and environmental reasons. I don't post about these things because the topic rarely/never comes up.
I am in no way jealous of people who drink soda...I can drink it whenever I want (and do for that matter). I do not count calories, as I am fit, in shape, and at a normal, healthy weight. I used to count them, but then I realized that simply eating a little healthier and being more active was much easier, less stressful and more effective (but I never had much of a problem of over eating to begin with). So I'm not jealous of anyone as I have achieved my goal and am exactly where I want to be in terms of weight and health.
I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with my posts. I'm simply sharing my opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right for everyone (obviously it's not), I'm just sharing what I belive.
If someone comes to MFP and is completely clueless about everything health/food related they will read posts (artificial sweeteners for example) where everyone says the same thing because that is the general consensus (which is fine). All I am doing is sharing the other side of the coin because, believe it or not, there are people who don't always agree with the majority (especially in today's world). There is more than one way of thinking and I don't think it's wrong to present the opinions of the other side, as unscientific as many believe them to be. (Just because we don't always agree with the majority does not make us crazy, tin foil hat wearing individuals who believe the earth is flat...that's pretty immature for certain individuals to keep saying that. )
Everyone can go and enjoy diet soda...it doesn't bother me. I'm glad people found something they enjoy. I don't choose to partake because I don't agree with artificial sweeteners, but anyone is more than welcome to. I am simply presenting the other side so people can make their own decisions and realize there is an oposing view.
No, what's truly immature is to irrationally cling to false beliefs despite unequivocal and unambiguous evidence to the contrary. It's not a matter of having an "opinion", as you keep saying, it's a matter of willful ignorance. That is the crux of why you are running into difficulty in this thread, and if it's a systemic trait in your thinking, I would imagine difficulty with life in general.
And while it is true that new users often peruse these threads for information and they often show up in Google searches, it would be a disservice to such readers to not call paranoid nonsense and fear-mongering exactly what it is.
Man, you really have a chip on your shoulder. I'm not even sure your post deserves a response. How is one's beliefs (no matter which side you choose) immature? That makes absolutely zero sense.
I'm not "running into difficulty" in this thread. I realize I'm in the minority so I expect people to disagree with me...that's fine. It is possible to disagree without the disrespect though.
I respect everyone's opinion. I do not call people derogatory names and give derogatory remarks. I may not agree with others beliefs for myself, but I certainly respect them and belive everyone is entitled to belive/do what they want...that my friend is called maturity.7 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I agree that nothing is 100% safe, yet any time I mention questioning the safety of artificial sweeteners I am told I'm wrong and they have been proven to be completely safe...so what exactly are we debating? Semantics?
They have not been proven to do harm, which in the real world is the best you can do. So if you avoid artificial sweetener because it isn't proven to be 100% safe, and you agree that nothing is 100% safe, why do you avoid artificial sweetener? Serious question, I honestly don't understand at this point.
I avoid them because I have read enough and spoken to enough people to make me have my doubts about them...it's not worth the possible risk for me. If I want to enjoy a soda (if I have 1 soda a month that would be a lot), I just assume have the real thing. I rarely drink soda anyways...I'd rather drink water because soda just makes me thirstier. I also avoid artificial sweeteners because I think it tastes horrible and gives me a weird tingling feeling in my mouth.
So it sounds to me like you normally drank regular soda before you decided to (mostly) quit and don't care for diet. That's a really good reason not to consume them. I don't think anyone is claiming you should (or even caring if you privately believe something they consider irrational).
For the record, some things I do personally that I would not insist are other than my own quirks: I happen to avoid a lot of things mostly because they are just not how I like to eat or I have environmental issues with them. I get grassfed or pastured meat and try to avoid industrial farmed (but know this is more expensive for many so wouldn't insist it's necessary or better for anyone but me and my preferences). I don't really approve of corn being in everything, for example, so I tend to avoid things that have HFCS and corn oil, etc. I think soy is in too much so generally avoid things with soy added where you wouldn't expect it, although I eat tofu and tempeh and soy beans (and make some exceptions for foods I eat occasionally that have soy, like a Quest bar), and for the most part I don't eat foods that have lots of ingredients because I prefer cooking for myself or using standard items like dried pasta that have been common for a long time. BUT, and I consider this a really important distinction, I acknowledge this is about my own preferences and NOT me being healthier than others or that there's any good evidence to think that consuming something with HFCS will be harmful (in reasonable amounts, of course).
I also (like you and I assume like most people) don't consume foods I dislike. For example, I think putting sweetener in coffee is disgusting. However, I don't feel compelled to tell people who do like them that I read on FB that sweetener in coffee (sugar or otherwise) is really bad for you and that I avoid it for that reason. Instead, I simply don't comment on it, for the most part, since of course the reason I do not consume it is that I dislike it.
It almost seems like you may be a little jealous that some people can consume soda whenever they want without worrying about it, since the soda they enjoy is calorie free (or close enough to it that it does not matter).
While I don't necessarily agree with all you said in your post, I truly do appreciate the fact that you can disagree in a mature, respectful way without resorting to immature, derogatory remarks as many people here often do. Thank you.
I too like to try and avoid many of the things you mentioned (corn, soy etc). It is my personal preference that I do for health and environmental reasons. I don't post about these things because the topic rarely/never comes up.
I am in no way jealous of people who drink soda...I can drink it whenever I want (and do for that matter). I do not count calories, as I am fit, in shape, and at a normal, healthy weight. I used to count them, but then I realized that simply eating a little healthier and being more active was much easier, less stressful and more effective (but I never had much of a problem of over eating to begin with). So I'm not jealous of anyone as I have achieved my goal and am exactly where I want to be in terms of weight and health.
I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with my posts. I'm simply sharing my opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right for everyone (obviously it's not), I'm just sharing what I belive.
If someone comes to MFP and is completely clueless about everything health/food related they will read posts (artificial sweeteners for example) where everyone says the same thing because that is the general consensus (which is fine). All I am doing is sharing the other side of the coin because, believe it or not, there are people who don't always agree with the majority (especially in today's world). There is more than one way of thinking and I don't think it's wrong to present the opinions of the other side, as unscientific as many believe them to be. (Just because we don't always agree with the majority does not make us crazy, tin foil hat wearing individuals who believe the earth is flat...that's pretty immature for certain individuals to keep saying that. )
Everyone can go and enjoy diet soda...it doesn't bother me. I'm glad people found something they enjoy. I don't choose to partake because I don't agree with artificial sweeteners, but anyone is more than welcome to. I am simply presenting the other side so people can make their own decisions and realize there is an oposing view.lemurcat12 wrote: »I agree that nothing is 100% safe, yet any time I mention questioning the safety of artificial sweeteners I am told I'm wrong and they have been proven to be completely safe...so what exactly are we debating? Semantics?
They have not been proven to do harm, which in the real world is the best you can do. So if you avoid artificial sweetener because it isn't proven to be 100% safe, and you agree that nothing is 100% safe, why do you avoid artificial sweetener? Serious question, I honestly don't understand at this point.
I avoid them because I have read enough and spoken to enough people to make me have my doubts about them...it's not worth the possible risk for me. If I want to enjoy a soda (if I have 1 soda a month that would be a lot), I just assume have the real thing. I rarely drink soda anyways...I'd rather drink water because soda just makes me thirstier. I also avoid artificial sweeteners because I think it tastes horrible and gives me a weird tingling feeling in my mouth.
So it sounds to me like you normally drank regular soda before you decided to (mostly) quit and don't care for diet. That's a really good reason not to consume them. I don't think anyone is claiming you should (or even caring if you privately believe something they consider irrational).
For the record, some things I do personally that I would not insist are other than my own quirks: I happen to avoid a lot of things mostly because they are just not how I like to eat or I have environmental issues with them. I get grassfed or pastured meat and try to avoid industrial farmed (but know this is more expensive for many so wouldn't insist it's necessary or better for anyone but me and my preferences). I don't really approve of corn being in everything, for example, so I tend to avoid things that have HFCS and corn oil, etc. I think soy is in too much so generally avoid things with soy added where you wouldn't expect it, although I eat tofu and tempeh and soy beans (and make some exceptions for foods I eat occasionally that have soy, like a Quest bar), and for the most part I don't eat foods that have lots of ingredients because I prefer cooking for myself or using standard items like dried pasta that have been common for a long time. BUT, and I consider this a really important distinction, I acknowledge this is about my own preferences and NOT me being healthier than others or that there's any good evidence to think that consuming something with HFCS will be harmful (in reasonable amounts, of course).
I also (like you and I assume like most people) don't consume foods I dislike. For example, I think putting sweetener in coffee is disgusting. However, I don't feel compelled to tell people who do like them that I read on FB that sweetener in coffee (sugar or otherwise) is really bad for you and that I avoid it for that reason. Instead, I simply don't comment on it, for the most part, since of course the reason I do not consume it is that I dislike it.
It almost seems like you may be a little jealous that some people can consume soda whenever they want without worrying about it, since the soda they enjoy is calorie free (or close enough to it that it does not matter).
While I don't necessarily agree with all you said in your post, I truly do appreciate the fact that you can disagree in a mature, respectful way without resorting to immature, derogatory remarks as many people here often do. Thank you.
I too like to try and avoid many of the things you mentioned (corn, soy etc). It is my personal preference that I do for health and environmental reasons. I don't post about these things because the topic rarely/never comes up.
I am in no way jealous of people who drink soda...I can drink it whenever I want (and do for that matter). I do not count calories, as I am fit, in shape, and at a normal, healthy weight. I used to count them, but then I realized that simply eating a little healthier and being more active was much easier, less stressful and more effective (but I never had much of a problem of over eating to begin with). So I'm not jealous of anyone as I have achieved my goal and am exactly where I want to be in terms of weight and health.
I am not trying to tell anyone what to do with my posts. I'm simply sharing my opinion. I'm not saying my opinion is right for everyone (obviously it's not), I'm just sharing what I belive.
If someone comes to MFP and is completely clueless about everything health/food related they will read posts (artificial sweeteners for example) where everyone says the same thing because that is the general consensus (which is fine). All I am doing is sharing the other side of the coin because, believe it or not, there are people who don't always agree with the majority (especially in today's world). There is more than one way of thinking and I don't think it's wrong to present the opinions of the other side, as unscientific as many believe them to be. (Just because we don't always agree with the majority does not make us crazy, tin foil hat wearing individuals who believe the earth is flat...that's pretty immature for certain individuals to keep saying that. )
Everyone can go and enjoy diet soda...it doesn't bother me. I'm glad people found something they enjoy. I don't choose to partake because I don't agree with artificial sweeteners, but anyone is more than welcome to. I am simply presenting the other side so people can make their own decisions and realize there is an oposing view.
No, what's truly immature is to irrationally cling to false beliefs despite unequivocal and unambiguous evidence to the contrary. It's not a matter of having an "opinion", as you keep saying, it's a matter of willful ignorance. That is the crux of why you are running into difficulty in this thread, and if it's a systemic trait in your thinking, I would imagine difficulty with life in general.
And while it is true that new users often peruse these threads for information and they often show up in Google searches, it would be a disservice to such readers to not call paranoid nonsense and fear-mongering exactly what it is.
Man, you really have a chip on your shoulder. I'm not even sure your post deserves a response. How is one's beliefs (no matter which side you choose) immature? That makes absolutely zero sense.
I'm not "running into difficulty" in this thread. I realize I'm in the minority so I expect people to disagree with me...that's fine. It is possible to disagree without the disrespect though.
I respect everyone's opinion. I do not call people derogatory names and give derogatory remarks. I may not agree with others beliefs for myself, but I certainly respect them and belive everyone is entitled to belive/do what they want...that my friend is called maturity.
A grown person believing in pink unicorns would be pretty immature.5 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I agree that nothing is 100% safe, yet any time I mention questioning the safety of artificial sweeteners I am told I'm wrong and they have been proven to be completely safe...so what exactly are we debating? Semantics?
Science has proven them to be just as safe as anything else we eat or drink. I haven't seen studies which conclusively prove that tap water is 100% safe under all conditions for everybody everywhere either, but I'm not afraid to drink it when I'm thirsty.
If you look hard enough, you can find tinfoil hat fearmongerers who claim that virtually anything is unsafe or bad for you. If you believe all of them and the "studies" they quote, you'd not only rule out artificial sweeteners, but also all meat (hormones, bacteria, teh cancerz and undigested meat somehow rotting in your gut), milk (pus-filled death in a glass), all carbs (teh insulinz and teh diabeetus), any and every non-organically grown fruit and vegetable (pesticides), tap water (fluoride, industrial pollutants), bottled water (BPAs and generating excess waste products)....the list goes on and on. By the time you get to the point where you're only eating foods which are consensus choices as "100% safe", your options are looking pretty limited.
I guess you'd probably be okay as long as you can subsist off dewdrops you collect from the leaves of plants high atop the Himalayas. I haven't seen anybody call those unsafe yet.
You're right, you can find people who will say just about anything is unhealthy/unsafe. I will avoid BPA, pesticides, growth hormones etc if I can, but sometimes it is hard to do. Avoiding artificial sweeteners is extremely easy...just buy the "regular" version of soda etc and you avoid them. They are the same price and in the same location...it's just a matter of reaching for the diet or regular soda (better yet, don't reach for either).
Btw...I love how you go to such extremes at the end of your post...classic.
Oh dear, let's hope the "HFCS" crowd don't catch you saying the bolded.
Kidding aside, I really don't mind it when people put up limitations for themselves for whatever reason, backed up by science or not. None of my business if it makes them feel good about their choices. While diet soda will not cause you to spontaneously combust, there is no need for it to be a part of anyone's diet. It's just an add on for those who want it. My only quibble is when such choices make life unnecessarily harder for the person like someone who really likes soda but wouldn't drink it because of the boogie man. This doesn't appear to be the case for you, so rock on.
Personally, I only drink it in the summer sometimes when I feel like sipping on something cold. Water doesn't work that way because I'm not used to sipping water as a cool drink. The way I use water is completely different: I drink water (and nothing but water) automatically when thirsty, like a means to satisfying a need. I don't consider it "a drink" or ponder the taste. It's just a mindless need-reaction thing for me. A cold drink is something different, it's enjoyable and refreshing. Hard to explain. That's why water as a drink is not an option for me.
Overall I agree with your post. I also appreciate the fact that you don't necessarily agree with me, but you can respect a different opinion. Thank you for that.
There seems to be lots of correlation studies with diet soda. To me, these correlation studies don't mean much.
It's typically something like "people who drink diet soda have a 20% greater chance of getting or having "whatever" than people who don't drink diet soda."
But people who don't drink diet soda may get "whatever" 2% of the time, meaning people who do drink diet soda get "whatever" 2.4% of the time (2% x 1.20 =2.4%). That number is meaningless.
And the number 20% is often not understood. Many people think if you are starting at a 2% chance, you now have a 24% chance.
But if it makes you feel good avoiding diet soda, keep avoiding it. I'm not going to call you a flat earther or other names like other posters. And I'm not giving your posts a "woo."
Thank you for your post. I respect your opinion and greatly appreciate the fact that you can disagree with me in a respectful way.
Your post about correlation studies makes sense...I get it, but for me the correlation is enough for me to personally avoid it. Thank you again for not resorting to derogatory comments to make your point.6 -
Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Returning to this thread 7 pages later, I am sort of amazed at the amount of Facebook bro-science that people believe the instant they read it. Its like 50% of the population learned NOTHING in school.Lol, that's because they were of the mindset: "Why do we have to learn this stuff if we're never going to use it in REAL life?"
SUPRISE.
As a teacher, I can confirm that a significant portion of the student population has this mindset, as well as a lack of interest in any explanation.2 -
This content has been removed.
-
Ericnutrition wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I agree that nothing is 100% safe, yet any time I mention questioning the safety of artificial sweeteners I am told I'm wrong and they have been proven to be completely safe...so what exactly are we debating? Semantics?
Science has proven them to be just as safe as anything else we eat or drink. I haven't seen studies which conclusively prove that tap water is 100% safe under all conditions for everybody everywhere either, but I'm not afraid to drink it when I'm thirsty.
If you look hard enough, you can find tinfoil hat fearmongerers who claim that virtually anything is unsafe or bad for you. If you believe all of them and the "studies" they quote, you'd not only rule out artificial sweeteners, but also all meat (hormones, bacteria, teh cancerz and undigested meat somehow rotting in your gut), milk (pus-filled death in a glass), all carbs (teh insulinz and teh diabeetus), any and every non-organically grown fruit and vegetable (pesticides), tap water (fluoride, industrial pollutants), bottled water (BPAs and generating excess waste products)....the list goes on and on. By the time you get to the point where you're only eating foods which are consensus choices as "100% safe", your options are looking pretty limited.
I guess you'd probably be okay as long as you can subsist off dewdrops you collect from the leaves of plants high atop the Himalayas. I haven't seen anybody call those unsafe yet.
You're right, you can find people who will say just about anything is unhealthy/unsafe. I will avoid BPA, pesticides, growth hormones etc if I can, but sometimes it is hard to do. Avoiding artificial sweeteners is extremely easy...just buy the "regular" version of soda etc and you avoid them. They are the same price and in the same location...it's just a matter of reaching for the diet or regular soda (better yet, don't reach for either).
Btw...I love how you go to such extremes at the end of your post...classic.
Oh dear, let's hope the "HFCS" crowd don't catch you saying the bolded.
Kidding aside, I really don't mind it when people put up limitations for themselves for whatever reason, backed up by science or not. None of my business if it makes them feel good about their choices. While diet soda will not cause you to spontaneously combust, there is no need for it to be a part of anyone's diet. It's just an add on for those who want it. My only quibble is when such choices make life unnecessarily harder for the person like someone who really likes soda but wouldn't drink it because of the boogie man. This doesn't appear to be the case for you, so rock on.
Personally, I only drink it in the summer sometimes when I feel like sipping on something cold. Water doesn't work that way because I'm not used to sipping water as a cool drink. The way I use water is completely different: I drink water (and nothing but water) automatically when thirsty, like a means to satisfying a need. I don't consider it "a drink" or ponder the taste. It's just a mindless need-reaction thing for me. A cold drink is something different, it's enjoyable and refreshing. Hard to explain. That's why water as a drink is not an option for me.
Overall I agree with your post. I also appreciate the fact that you don't necessarily agree with me, but you can respect a different opinion. Thank you for that.
There seems to be lots of correlation studies with diet soda. To me, these correlation studies don't mean much.
It's typically something like "people who drink diet soda have a 20% greater chance of getting or having "whatever" than people who don't drink diet soda."
But people who don't drink diet soda may get "whatever" 2% of the time, meaning people who do drink diet soda get "whatever" 2.4% of the time (2% x 1.20 =2.4%). That number is meaningless.
And the number 20% is often not understood. Many people think if you are starting at a 2% chance, you now have a 24% chance.
But if it makes you feel good avoiding diet soda, keep avoiding it. I'm not going to call you a flat earther or other names like other posters. And I'm not giving your posts a "woo."
Thank you for your post. I respect your opinion and greatly appreciate the fact that you can disagree with me in a respectful way.
Your post about correlation studies makes sense...I get it, but for me the correlation is enough for me to personally avoid it. Thank you again for not resorting to derogatory comments to make your point.
Not a problem. I don't believe diet soda is harmful. But it is not my religious belief. The anger and hostility vented toward you by posters here is pretty outrageous.
Perhaps one day there will be a study that actually convinces me that it is harmful. I have yet to see it.
That means nothing. Humans don't know many things concretely, so your beliefs are no more accurate than someone else's on the same topic.
What I can tell you as a fundamental nutritional issue is that whole foods found in nature, that are not processed, or very minimally processed, are far better for human beings than man-made food products.
For me personally, the phosphoric acid they use in soda exacerbates my acid reflux, and was probably the cause of it. I grew up in the 80s. Soda was more available than bottled water.8 -
This content has been removed.
-
Friend. Oh so friendly friend. All the "you're totally gonna get MS and fibro and lupus" stuff has about as much science behind it as autism being caused by vaccines. So exactly none.
There was a study done on aspartame and it did cause cancer in rats -- however -- they gave them about ten times their body weight -- at 1 time. Of course that part of the study wasn't publicized as much as the cancer word was.. Media =\ =\.0 -
8
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions