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How would you convince someone you love to take their blood pressure meds?
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Our diet is high on greens, vegetables and we use lots of garlic and spices to cook. We both don't eat a lot of meat, especially red meat, healthy fats, not much animal fats. And still she has high blood pressure. Like i said, the diet is pretty good. It could be just hereditary, her mom has high blood pressure and diabetes. She used to smoke, a lot and for many years, but had quit about 5 years ago, that could be a factor. I know i can't make her, but i probably should be more involved and keep a closer eye and more communication on this. If she feels something is off, i should encourage her to talk to me, rather than just stop talking it and see what happens. But she's stubborn, so I'm sure she feels it's completely up to her. I disagree with this though, because the care falls on the shoulders of the spouse, and if one can take measures to prevent disaster, i think it's a responsible thing to do.debmclernon wrote: »A diet low in sugar and high in garlic, chilli, spices, and greens is almost guaranteed to remove plaque from arteries. My dad had high cholesterol/BP and had a mild heart attack earlier this year. He left the hospital with a big bag of pills. I encouraged him to change a few things in his diet and he has been able to reverse his hypertension and bring his cholesterol down to safe levels again without taking any of those pills. He is fitter and happier than i have ever known him.
Pharmaceuticals are only effective in the short term. I work in healthcare and see this first hand. I am fortunate to work with doctors who encourage holistic health.
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debmclernon wrote: »A diet low in sugar and high in garlic, chilli, spices, and greens is almost guaranteed to remove plaque from arteries.
I'm a nurse who works in the cardiac catheterisation lab of a major hospital.
That's where you come for stents to unblock your arteries.
Sometimes minor disease is treated with pills.
Blockages of 60% + are treated with stents.
Sometimes we suck a really fresh thrombolitic clot out with an aspiration device.
Sometimes we drill out a tough hardened plaque with a neumatic drill called a rotoblator.
Blockages in the left main artery or triple vessel disease is referred for surgical review/bypass surgery.
..........
If you try to treat known coronary artery disease with the BS diet you described you will probably eventually suffer a major heart attack as blockages progress and cause ischemia (lack of oxygen) to the heart muscle.
Likewise, a person with a stent who stops their cardiac meds, particularly antiplatets such as aspirin is almost certain to develop in stent restenosis (a blockage in the stent).
Your advice is dangerous.
I'm with you, you can't treat medical conditions with spices and herbs. But i feel that diet is important part of the treatment. We don't know what is causing high blood pressure, like i said, no insurance, so no real health care. We're lucky that she can still get her medicine. I was hoping to be able to sign up for next year, but now that looks really bleak.0 -
SeptemberFeyre wrote: »Is she aware prolonged high blood pressure can cause blindness? It tells how on this page:
http://www.texasheart.org/HIC/Topics/Cond/hbp.cfm
This very thing happened to a friend of mine's mother.
I am certainly aware, kidney damage and even failure, heart attack, stroke, retinal damage., blockage of arteries. There are so many. Does talking to her about it falls into scaring tactics?0 -
I hear you and I think you are doing what you can.
I just wanted to point out that going on and off medications can lead to more troubles and side effects. When I went on a diuretic I had to run to the bathroom more often. When I went off, my legs swelled up...for a while. Then the body settled down again.
On and off the meds is not going to provide her much BP relief and wreak havoc on her system.
Do you think she would be open to using a pill reminder, so there's visual evidence of the days that are missed?0 -
I hear you and I think you are doing what you can.
I just wanted to point out that going on and off medications can lead to more troubles and side effects. When I went on a diuretic I had to run to the bathroom more often. When I went off, my legs swelled up...for a while. Then the body settled down again.
On and off the meds is not going to provide her much BP relief and wreak havoc on her system.
Do you think she would be open to using a pill reminder, so there's visual evidence of the days that are missed?
Nope, i brought that up a while ago, and she thinks that that will make her feel older and sicker, something of that nature. Ugghh. It's not that she foegets, i think. We have the morning routine, that takes place every day. And she's in charge of doling out pills, so she gives me my vitamin D and fish oil, and she takes a few extra ones, that i don't. And blood pressure pills are going in that group. We very rarely brake this set up, so it's not forgetfulness. Her mindset is different, that's the problem. I have been fighting this pretty much head on, but agreed few times to let her try her way, but it didn't work. Now she found some other ideas, like combo of coq10 and some red rice yeast???, not sure, but whatever it is, i know won't work, so in my opinion, why bother. The supplement industry is much more dangerous in my opinion than pharmaceutical, because of luck of regulation and baseless claims that they make to scam gullible people from money, just by calling something natural. And list of unproven, unscientific claims is endless. Plus, one can easily OD on supplements and cause more harm to themselves than benefit from it. So as you can see, our opinions are on the opposite sides of a spectrum. And that's another problem.1 -
What did the most for lowering my blood pressure was daily high intensity exercise. If she won't take her meds and has no judgement where supplements are concerned, that may be your best bet.1
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Hubby and I are on opposite sides of the spectrum on some beliefs. That's where I did my research on cognitive dissonance and the ways to help people make the switch (think differently). It took me five years. It might have taken less time if I had avoided a big newbie mistake (don't threaten cherished beliefs head-on!).
I think if the two of you can treat each of her straws (grasping at straws) as a "scientific" project, try for a week and test, you will be able to whittle down her excuses. See if you can both agree that the true test of success is lowered blood pressure numbers. No other excuses, such as swollen feet, are acceptable. The goal here is lowered blood pressure.1 -
They they want to act like a child, treat them like a child. Grind it up and hide it in food and drink3
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Calichusetts wrote: »They they want to act like a child, treat them like a child. Grind it up and hide it in food and drink
No, just no. Even adults with learning disabilities have rights. Adults have the right to choose their own treatment, even if it is to their own detriment. There are competency tests to make sure the adult understands the consequences of their decision. This is very well established in the law. Hiding medication in food goes against so many personal rights I just can't even.
This woman is not a child. She is trying to talk about the issue with her husband. She is obviously frightened about the consequences, and is taking steps to reduce the risk.3 -
Calichusetts wrote: »They they want to act like a child, treat them like a child. Grind it up and hide it in food and drink
Absolutely no way. What kind of suggestion is that? I won't treat anyone this way, and hope that's not going to be done to me either. Ever.2 -
Take her on a tour of a dialysis center, followed by a stroke rehab center.3
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I run into similar behavior with several patients who view taking a pill as some sign of weakness. This is patently absurd. Our bodies are essentially very complex chemistry labs. When something in the lab falls out of balance there needs to be a corrective measure implemented. This is not weakness, but basic maintenance.
To put this is automotive terms this is akin to not getting your oil changed and just taking the risk. At some point without maintenance the engine will fail.0 -
Right, it's just that she believes into different measures to correct the problem, natural, holistic, etc. Not pharmaceutical ways, and it could be good for some issues, but not others. This problem needs to be corrected by conventional form of medications, in my opinion. But at least he same time i do recognize that she is entitled to her own opinion. But since no holistic ways were making any difference, now it should be my way.I run into similar behavior with several patients who view taking a pill as some sign of weakness. This is patently absurd. Our bodies are essentially very complex chemistry labs. When something in the lab falls out of balance there needs to be a corrective measure implemented. This is not weakness, but basic maintenance.
To put this is automotive terms this is akin to not getting your oil changed and just taking the risk. At some point without maintenance the engine will fail.
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Right, it's just that she believes into different measures to correct the problem, natural, holistic, etc. Not pharmaceutical ways, and it could be good for some issues, but not others. This problem needs to be corrected by conventional form of medications, in my opinion. But at least he same time i do recognize that she is entitled to her own opinion. But since no holistic ways were making any difference, now it should be my way.I run into similar behavior with several patients who view taking a pill as some sign of weakness. This is patently absurd. Our bodies are essentially very complex chemistry labs. When something in the lab falls out of balance there needs to be a corrective measure implemented. This is not weakness, but basic maintenance.
To put this is automotive terms this is akin to not getting your oil changed and just taking the risk. At some point without maintenance the engine will fail.
Here's the problem with this thinking - holistic, allopathic, natural - this is all nonsensical marketing labels used to diminish competing therapies. Any successful remedy will require both short term and long term corrective actions. To eliminate one because of feelings is illogical and dangerous.
Pharmaceutical products require that they show objective evidence to prove that they are both safe and effective. Supplements and holistic products by regulatory definition cannot prove effectivity.0 -
Isn't it possible to allow both treatments to continue side by side? The holistic for the placebo effect, and the pill for the treatment?0
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She cried last night, i held her. Felt so bad. I might have been a bit rough. So one of the reasons for quitting it this time was that her ankles are swollen, so she's retaining water. And that's the dreaded side effect. Ughh. Her ankles aree not swollen, but she doesn't believe me. I told her, that i would be the first one to notice and point it out. Today, when we were having breakfast i saw that thw blood pressure pills were back in her little pile. Sigh of relief, but for how long? I'm just so scared. Told her that she might never have a stroke, but if she does, it will suck sooo bad.
Is she reporting her symptoms to her doctors? I am on five meds due to hypertension and atrial fibrillation. I've been on hypertension meds for over 30 years, and coumadin for 17 years. The doctors have tweaked things - but I've been an active participant in planning my treatment and have always reported symptoms. In a couple of cases, I've had negative side effects and the doctor would say, "well, let's try something else then". I take a couple of supplements, too, but I check to make sure they don't interfere with my medications (which means discussing with my doctor even if he rolls his eyes - I take sour cherry extract for the gout symptoms I sometimes get due to the diuretic I'm on).
Since she has a beef with standard medical care, my bet is, she doesn't have an open dialogue with her docs about things like side effects. She takes the meds, or convinces herself that it's BS and lies to her docs (or withholds information) - is that the case? From your perspective, this is a communication issue in your relationship; you might want to consider seeing if she'd be willing to go to a few sessions of couples counseling to get some hints on improving your communication related to her health issues. Look for someone trained in Gottman's approach which focuses on communication.2 -
But since no holistic ways were making any difference, now it should be my way.
this is an interesting angle, actually. maybe if you and she sat down and drew up some kind of truce or contract where that's actually expressed? or maybe you already have.
something along the lines of: we'll try your way for x time, and then we will try mine. not sure if it's something you yourself feel prepared to get behind if you're worried about allowing any more of the pathway she'd want.
i'm totally hearing you about the bind that you're in, although it's not something i've had to deal with myself. an acquaintance of mine had a diabetic husband who seemed to be unconsciously using his condition and his med as a way of getting attention . . . really not that far off from a small child who figures out how agitated adults will get if s/he refuses to eat.
not saying it's about that with your spouse, but by the time he ended up in the e.r. getting a gangrenous foot amputated i wasn't the only one of her friends saying 'good, now it'll be easier for you to leave him.'
and the only other thought that i have is: it seems like you're very supportive about her feels/fears when she talking ABOUT taking the meds. this makes me feel like your input and your emotional investment are all being pissed away outside the arena [sorry for bad metaphor; my brain's tired]. what would happen/would it change things if the support was actually something that was combined WITH her taking the meds? i can't thtink up a simple way of describing my thought.
like, if you're putting all your energy into being nice about the phobia itself, i can see two or three things happening.
one, if you were an un-nice kind of person like me, that would get old within an extremely short time. i hate vapourware and i hate listening to the fears and feelings of people when i feel like me listenign to them is enabling them. it also makes me feel like a hypocrite; i know perfectly well that when two or three weeks of the actual thing still giong on have gone by, my lizard brain is for-sure going to come back.
two, i'd expect the dynamic to be: she freaks out about taking them, you pour on the sympathy and pretty much drain yourself dry. so then she starts taking them, which to you probably feels like it's 'problem solved' time. whereas in her experience, i bet it's more like 'problem now starts for real'. so you're all megarelieved and already burned out, so you go back to business-as-usual. and she's actually doing the thing that freaks her out so much, but like i said all the support and the sympathy have already been spent. it seems like it's a bit out of sync and exhausting for both of you . . . but especially you.
sorry this was more repetitive and probably pointless than i meant it to be. i'm 52, you know. the brain's goingg . . . or at least it's tired
EDIT: oh yeah, i already said that.
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canadianlbs wrote: »But since no holistic ways were making any difference, now it should be my way.
this is an interesting angle, actually. maybe if you and she sat down and drew up some kind of truce or contract where that's actually expressed? or maybe you already have.
something along the lines of: we'll try your way for x time, and then we will try mine. not sure if it's something you yourself feel prepared to get behind if you're worried about allowing any more of the pathway she'd want.
i'm totally hearing you about the bind that you're in, although it's not something i've had to deal with myself. an acquaintance of mine had a diabetic husband who seemed to be unconsciously using his condition and his med as a way of getting attention . . . really not that far off from a small child who figures out how agitated adults will get if s/he refuses to eat.
not saying it's about that with your spouse, but by the time he ended up in the e.r. getting a gangrenous foot amputated i wasn't the only one of her friends saying 'good, now it'll be easier for you to leave him.'
and the only other thought that i have is: it seems like you're very supportive about her feels/fears when she talking ABOUT taking the meds. this makes me feel like your input and your emotional investment are all being pissed away outside the arena [sorry for bad metaphor; my brain's tired]. what would happen/would it change things if the support was actually something that was combined WITH her taking the meds? i can't thtink up a simple way of describing my thought.
like, if you're putting all your energy into being nice about the phobia itself, i can see two or three things happening.
one, if you were an un-nice kind of person like me, that would get old within an extremely short time. i hate vapourware and i hate listening to the fears and feelings of people when i feel like me listenign to them is enabling them.
two, i'd expect the dynamic to be: she freaks out about taking them, you pour on the sympathy and pretty much burn yourself out. so then she starts taking them, which to you probably feels like it's 'problem solved' time. whereas in her experience, i bet it's more like 'problem now starts for real'. so you're all megarelieved and already burned out, so you go back to business-as-usual. and she's actually doing the thing that freaks her out so much, but like i said all the support and the sympathy have already been spent. it seems like it's a bit out of sync and exhausting for both of you . . . but especially you.
sorry this was more repetitive and probably pointless than i meant it to be. i'm 52, you know. the brain's goingg . . . or at least it's tired
Yes, i think you're onto something here, the dynamics you've described are spot on. I relax and take a breath of relief, and she starts freaking out because she feels that she's actually harming herself at that point by taking the medication. Wow. I should stay more open minded, and offer more support, and be a bigger cheerleader because it's difficult and something she's completely against. And probably feeling forced to do. Sigh. Really deep one. The truth is, meds work. Few days on them, and the numbers are down. I'm glad, of course. I told her that i really appreciate her taking medication, because it's so important to me to have her around for a long time. She responded in kind, and i know she means that. For now she's taking it. Until she finds another possible "cure" that will offer a chance that she can drop the meds again and go with what she believes to be the less harmful treatment? I really would need to find a way to make it stick this time, i think it's dangerous to go off medication like that, ignore all the logic (mine, in our situation, of course, not hers), and this is how cognitive dissonance plays out.2 -
I would protect yourself by having a good policy plan that includes not only a death payout but also a long term coverage. Premium would be expensive but not near as costly as paying for a long term stay or a funeral out of pocket. And if her health deteriorated to either of these stages, you would both want dignity in doing what is right.
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