Why are most mfp users against holistic nutrition?

g_poleman · October 2017

What in the heck is "woo"??? Never heard of that word. I am sure it's one I won't use. But would like to know what it means here in MFP combat forums.

Alatariel75 · October 2017

g_poleman wrote: »

What in the heck is "woo"??? Never heard of that word. I am sure it's one I won't use. But would like to know what it means here in MFP combat forums.

"the way a person is when they uncritically believe unsubstantiated or unfounded ideas. Short for "woo woo".

lucerorojo · October 2017

I think there are a lot of things that work in non-Western medicine. The problem is that some of the people doing them in the West, don't know what they are doing! They latch onto an idea and not being trained in it, do something partially like it and that doesn't work.

lemmie177 · October 2017

I think its a combination of people having exaggerated expectations and sellers encouraging those misconceptions in order to sell things. Thus, nothing actually delivers and is therefore 'woo'. Take "detox" for example. Yes, your body is perfectly capable of "detox"-ing, but you have to pee, poo, sweat, breathe, or otherwise secrete it out. That's why all those teas and 'cleanses' that make people poop their pants are sold as detox miracles. So, yeah, they are technically involved in detoxification, just not in the magical way they're marketed.

KateTii · October 2017

Good nutrition and a healthy lifestyle can go a long way towards better health - I don't think there will be a single person here that will argue with that. However, most people will argue against the wild claims of food healing certain diseases, 'detoxing', good food vs bad food (in the context that 'bad' food poisons you) etc - all scientifically unfounded.

JustRobby1 · October 2017

My take on pseudoscience like holistic gobbledegook is such pretty straightforward, and I feel reasonable. Practitioners in most of these hocus pocus disciplines have had ample opportunity to provide efficacy for their techniques and methods. To date they have failed to do so. When and if they ever do then we might have something to talk about as they will no longer be pseudoscientific and will warrant serious consideration and dialogue.

Most of these folks likely know full well in their heart of hearts that what they are practicing will never be able to pass the rigors of scientific scrutiny. If they had the ability to prove any of their assertions they would have by now. What I suspect many of these cranks have come to the conclusion to is that you can still make money regardless, so why bother running another clinical trial when you already know what the result will be from countless past experiences ?

dutchandkiwi · October 2017

A lot of what you mention as what is being taught in your classes falls into the category of nonsense, silly etc. However there are some things I would classify as interesting theories that would make some awesome research projects over a lot of years, but are a long long way off from being taught as fact. Maybe mention it as a theory but not facts. As you say yourself your teachers are believers, which I read as they believe what they teach, but don't know, fatcs are missing if they weren't missing you'd not be using the word belief.
Now a theory can be proven and some very very far flung theories have been proven;Einsein's relativity and associated theories were built on known facts and at the time was considered to be questionably many.yet here we are 100 years later still finding more and more evidence that he was right in most things. His theory has been improved by others, tested, and we have a science community that tries to disprove and prove his theories.

As for a school that does not give you access to their lectures? I'd run a thousand miles in the other direction. That is a scam.

tomteboda · October 2017

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

show previous quotes

TavistockToad wrote: »

Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?

Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on

I'm terribly surprised you aren't also being taught about laying on of hands, voodoo, prayers of intercession, healing through prayer, anointing with oil, recitation of the quaran, dianetics, electromagnetic therapy, aromatherapy, homeopathy, shamanism, chelation therapy, cupping, reiki, hypnosis, qigong, numerology, oil pulling, and the proper folding of tin foil hats.

Unknown · October 2017

This content has been removed.

amusedmonkey · October 2017

Unfortunately, there is glaring evidence that this is a scam. They saw a need where people are not getting adequate answers (nondescript symptoms of undiagnosed real illnesses or psychosomatic disorders) and created a business around it. "What Big X doesn't want you to know" is an attractive premise. It creates a false sense of control and belonging to a group that "knows better" and is able to make sense of the world.

Paying money for such scams makes people want to believe that they haven't wasted their money, so they are more inclined to keep reaffirming those beliefs. They want to be right (most people do), and more so when they sink money into it. The difference between wanting to be right for the sake of the feeling of being right, and wanting to be right for the fact of being right is that the former requires little evidence and questioning, and whatever "evidence" is there is adequate because constant reaffirmation makes it so. Even the most intelligent and bright people can fall for this.

snowflake954 · October 2017

I know a German doctor using the holistic approach for years. She's very intelligent and several years ago started in with an American MLM company. She makes so much money it's sinful. I sat in on one of her presentations--leaky gut was mentioned alot. I didn't like the push to get involved selling and tapping into my friends and acquaintances, so I backed out fast.

wsusan162 · October 2017

Adam Ruins Everything did a show on nutrition and one on "health spas". Interesting information on how the government set USDA guidelines, and how the placebo effect works.

WorkerDrone83 · October 2017

I think I remember hearing something like "If alternative medicine worked, it would just be called medicine." I would assume the same applies to holistic nutrition.

It sounds super interesting, though.

skymningen · October 2017

Disclaimer: I work with/for a bunch of scientists studying the microbiome of the gut. So to speak, I am in the "scientific peer group" of this topic. Some of them are immunologists, others nutritionists (the type that studied at university, not took some weekend course), many are different types of medical doctors or microbiologists. I will try and collect what they would say about this stuff.

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

show previous quotes

TavistockToad wrote: »

Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?

Candida Overgrowth Was a "thing" in the 90s. There still is a common test for candida and other fungi in regular fecal samplings. But it is only a problem if it is a really extensive overgrowth. This is rare and usually only occurs after heavy antibiotic or steroid treatments. I had it myself as a child, after extensive treatment for a bad case of pertussis. There is no chance to get rid of it without taking fungicide medication if you really have it. But as I said it is rare. It cannot be caused nor treated by nutrition only.
, Leaky Gut Syndrome, It is a name for a multitude of symptoms. Some of them are symptoms of an actual problem (I wouldn't say disease, but a preliminary to disease) of the gut. Others are not evidently connected with gut health. I would advise people to get an actual diagnosis if they feel something is wrong. Some of these symptoms are early symptoms of colon cancer. Your gut is not leaking though. If it would, you'd be in trouble (both literally leaking and "immunologically" leaking)
Adrenal Fatigue Most likely a type of burnout. Burnout has psychosomatic symptoms. If the proper diagnosis is partially 'mental', that does not make it less of a disease.
, Detox, Your body does detox itself all day every day. It does not need help doing that, other than being kept properly hydrated. Actually, many detox mixes have made people severely ill by... interfering with the normal kidney function.
Connection between gut microbiome and brain health, As a microbiome person: Yeah, That's definitely one of the new buzzes in the field. And there is something to it. The gut has a lot of receptors that do only occur in higher numbers in the brain. Also, evidently, bad nutrition makes people mentally unhealthy. There is something here. But we are still doing basic science here, no results available which would be usable for treatment.
Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms There is some base truth in all of those. Not saying they are true, but they are some kind of "science myth" based on a misunderstanding of (sometimes still) badly understood biochemistry. But it is usually very far fetched. You would have to ingest incredible doses of the culprits to have a sure effect. And then you do have another underlying problem. (Confounding factors is also an important thing here...)
, soy being bad for hormonal health, The amount of hormone you ingest from soy is not going to make a difference. Unless of course you eat tons of soy. But then the malnutrition from lacking other nutrients will make much more of a difference.
regular dairy being bad for general health, I can't even really figure where this came from. If you are lactose intolerant, sure. But again, in all other cases, as long as you have a balanced diet you are not going wrong with any single part of it.
the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... Your body does not know how the gene entered the organism it is eating. If the gene should not be there and the product of the gene should not be ingested that is of course a problem, but a different one. I can also breed this gene into the organism old style, it is just going to take me much longer. The heavy metals are there, for sure. We actually need some of them in very low amounts. If they are there in too high amounts, that is a contamination and is usually heavily controlled by fod safety laboratories.
The list could go on and on

deannalfisher · October 2017

i'd def. be interested in more of what they have to say on Adrenal Fatigue @skymningen - since that is the latest thing i'm seeing lots of on triathlon forums

snowflake954 · October 2017

skymningen wrote: »

Disclaimer: I work with/for a bunch of scientists studying the microbiome of the gut. So to speak, I am in the "scientific peer group" of this topic. Some of them are immunologists, others nutritionists (the type that studied at university, not took some weekend course), many are different types of medical doctors or microbiologists. I will try and collect what they would say about this stuff.
show previous quotes

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

TavistockToad wrote: »

Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?

Candida Overgrowth Was a "thing" in the 90s. There still is a common test for candida and other fungi in regular fecal samplings. But it is only a problem if it is a really extensive overgrowth. This is rare and usually only occurs after heavy antibiotic or steroid treatments. I had it myself as a child, after extensive treatment for a bad case of pertussis. There is no chance to get rid of it without taking fungicide medication if you really have it. But as I said it is rare. It cannot be caused nor treated by nutrition only.
, Leaky Gut Syndrome, It is a name for a multitude of symptoms. Some of them are symptoms of an actual problem (I wouldn't say disease, but a preliminary to disease) of the gut. Others are not evidently connected with gut health. I would advise people to get an actual diagnosis if they feel something is wrong. Some of these symptoms are early symptoms of colon cancer. Your gut is not leaking though. If it would, you'd be in trouble (both literally leaking and "immunologically" leaking)
Adrenal Fatigue Most likely a type of burnout. Burnout has psychosomatic symptoms. If the proper diagnosis is partially 'mental', that does not make it less of a disease.
, Detox, Your body does detox itself all day every day. It does not need help doing that, other than being kept properly hydrated. Actually, many detox mixes have made people severely ill by... interfering with the normal kidney function.
Connection between gut microbiome and brain health, As a microbiome person: Yeah, That's definitely one of the new buzzes in the field. And there is something to it. The gut has a lot of receptors that do only occur in higher numbers in the brain. Also, evidently, bad nutrition makes people mentally unhealthy. There is something here. But we are still doing basic science here, no results available which would be usable for treatment.
Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms There is some base truth in all of those. Not saying they are true, but they are some kind of "science myth" based on a misunderstanding of (sometimes still) badly understood biochemistry. But it is usually very far fetched. You would have to ingest incredible doses of the culprits to have a sure effect. And then you do have another underlying problem. (Confounding factors is also an important thing here...)
, soy being bad for hormonal health, The amount of hormone you ingest from soy is not going to make a difference. Unless of course you eat tons of soy. But then the malnutrition from lacking other nutrients will make much more of a difference.
regular dairy being bad for general health, I can't even really figure where this came from. If you are lactose intolerant, sure. But again, in all other cases, as long as you have a balanced diet you are not going wrong with any single part of it.
the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... Your body does not know how the gene entered the organism it is eating. If the gene should not be there and the product of the gene should not be ingested that is of course a problem, but a different one. I can also breed this gene into the organism old style, it is just going to take me much longer. The heavy metals are there, for sure. We actually need some of them in very low amounts. If they are there in too high amounts, that is a contamination and is usually heavily controlled by fod safety laboratories.
The list could go on and on

Thank you so much for stepping up with your expertise. When someone really knows something they stand out from the crowd.

jgnatca · October 2017

I’ve been pondering the origin of science and how it has transformed health. At its essence science is keeping careful record of results. Over time we have built up a short list of what works, and what doesn’t.

In the absence of careful records, what do we have? A lot of noise. If all we hear is noise, what to believe? Tradition, anecdote, word of mouth, charlatans, and the loud. Sometimes the noisy cures will have a palliative effect, but the results will be inconsistent.

ninerbuff · October 2017

skymningen wrote: »

Disclaimer: I work with/for a bunch of scientists studying the microbiome of the gut. So to speak, I am in the "scientific peer group" of this topic. Some of them are immunologists, others nutritionists (the type that studied at university, not took some weekend course), many are different types of medical doctors or microbiologists. I will try and collect what they would say about this stuff.
show previous quotes

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

TavistockToad wrote: »

Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?

Candida Overgrowth Was a "thing" in the 90s. There still is a common test for candida and other fungi in regular fecal samplings. But it is only a problem if it is a really extensive overgrowth. This is rare and usually only occurs after heavy antibiotic or steroid treatments. I had it myself as a child, after extensive treatment for a bad case of pertussis. There is no chance to get rid of it without taking fungicide medication if you really have it. But as I said it is rare. It cannot be caused nor treated by nutrition only.
, Leaky Gut Syndrome, It is a name for a multitude of symptoms. Some of them are symptoms of an actual problem (I wouldn't say disease, but a preliminary to disease) of the gut. Others are not evidently connected with gut health. I would advise people to get an actual diagnosis if they feel something is wrong. Some of these symptoms are early symptoms of colon cancer. Your gut is not leaking though. If it would, you'd be in trouble (both literally leaking and "immunologically" leaking)
Adrenal Fatigue Most likely a type of burnout. Burnout has psychosomatic symptoms. If the proper diagnosis is partially 'mental', that does not make it less of a disease.
, Detox, Your body does detox itself all day every day. It does not need help doing that, other than being kept properly hydrated. Actually, many detox mixes have made people severely ill by... interfering with the normal kidney function.
Connection between gut microbiome and brain health, As a microbiome person: Yeah, That's definitely one of the new buzzes in the field. And there is something to it. The gut has a lot of receptors that do only occur in higher numbers in the brain. Also, evidently, bad nutrition makes people mentally unhealthy. There is something here. But we are still doing basic science here, no results available which would be usable for treatment.
Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms There is some base truth in all of those. Not saying they are true, but they are some kind of "science myth" based on a misunderstanding of (sometimes still) badly understood biochemistry. But it is usually very far fetched. You would have to ingest incredible doses of the culprits to have a sure effect. And then you do have another underlying problem. (Confounding factors is also an important thing here...)
, soy being bad for hormonal health, The amount of hormone you ingest from soy is not going to make a difference. Unless of course you eat tons of soy. But then the malnutrition from lacking other nutrients will make much more of a difference.
regular dairy being bad for general health, I can't even really figure where this came from. If you are lactose intolerant, sure. But again, in all other cases, as long as you have a balanced diet you are not going wrong with any single part of it.
the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... Your body does not know how the gene entered the organism it is eating. If the gene should not be there and the product of the gene should not be ingested that is of course a problem, but a different one. I can also breed this gene into the organism old style, it is just going to take me much longer. The heavy metals are there, for sure. We actually need some of them in very low amounts. If they are there in too high amounts, that is a contamination and is usually heavily controlled by fod safety laboratories.
The list could go on and on

Science changes all the time and I for one would like to hear more on microbiome study. It's still in it's infancy so let's see how progression on it goes. Again, can't totally discount it yet, but I can't truly call it woo yet either.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

TenderBlender667 · October 2017

skymningen wrote: »

Disclaimer: I work with/for a bunch of scientists studying the microbiome of the gut. So to speak, I am in the "scientific peer group" of this topic. Some of them are immunologists, others nutritionists (the type that studied at university, not took some weekend course), many are different types of medical doctors or microbiologists. I will try and collect what they would say about this stuff.
show previous quotes

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

TavistockToad wrote: »

Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?

Candida Overgrowth Was a "thing" in the 90s. There still is a common test for candida and other fungi in regular fecal samplings. But it is only a problem if it is a really extensive overgrowth. This is rare and usually only occurs after heavy antibiotic or steroid treatments. I had it myself as a child, after extensive treatment for a bad case of pertussis. There is no chance to get rid of it without taking fungicide medication if you really have it. But as I said it is rare. It cannot be caused nor treated by nutrition only.
, Leaky Gut Syndrome, It is a name for a multitude of symptoms. Some of them are symptoms of an actual problem (I wouldn't say disease, but a preliminary to disease) of the gut. Others are not evidently connected with gut health. I would advise people to get an actual diagnosis if they feel something is wrong. Some of these symptoms are early symptoms of colon cancer. Your gut is not leaking though. If it would, you'd be in trouble (both literally leaking and "immunologically" leaking)
Adrenal Fatigue Most likely a type of burnout. Burnout has psychosomatic symptoms. If the proper diagnosis is partially 'mental', that does not make it less of a disease.
, Detox, Your body does detox itself all day every day. It does not need help doing that, other than being kept properly hydrated. Actually, many detox mixes have made people severely ill by... interfering with the normal kidney function.
Connection between gut microbiome and brain health, As a microbiome person: Yeah, That's definitely one of the new buzzes in the field. And there is something to it. The gut has a lot of receptors that do only occur in higher numbers in the brain. Also, evidently, bad nutrition makes people mentally unhealthy. There is something here. But we are still doing basic science here, no results available which would be usable for treatment.
Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms There is some base truth in all of those. Not saying they are true, but they are some kind of "science myth" based on a misunderstanding of (sometimes still) badly understood biochemistry. But it is usually very far fetched. You would have to ingest incredible doses of the culprits to have a sure effect. And then you do have another underlying problem. (Confounding factors is also an important thing here...)
, soy being bad for hormonal health, The amount of hormone you ingest from soy is not going to make a difference. Unless of course you eat tons of soy. But then the malnutrition from lacking other nutrients will make much more of a difference.
regular dairy being bad for general health, I can't even really figure where this came from. If you are lactose intolerant, sure. But again, in all other cases, as long as you have a balanced diet you are not going wrong with any single part of it.
the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... Your body does not know how the gene entered the organism it is eating. If the gene should not be there and the product of the gene should not be ingested that is of course a problem, but a different one. I can also breed this gene into the organism old style, it is just going to take me much longer. The heavy metals are there, for sure. We actually need some of them in very low amounts. If they are there in too high amounts, that is a contamination and is usually heavily controlled by fod safety laboratories.
The list could go on and on

Thank you for clearing a lot of things up.

I have found some scientific data related to Leaky Gut and Candida, but couldn't find anything on Adrenal Fatigue

Leaky gut:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28328972
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28342610
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28049662
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2886850/
Candida Overgrowth: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27590517
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28799153
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28578302

jesspen91 · October 2017

WorkerDrone83 wrote: »

I think I remember hearing something like "If alternative medicine worked, it would just be called medicine." I would assume the same applies to holistic nutrition.

It sounds super interesting, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

Was it this?

Unknown · October 2017

This content has been removed.

squirmmonster · October 2017

The problem is that holistic medicine is, on the one hand, a bit of rubbish, and the other hand, a lot of it good medicine. Most of the people here are very content to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Not all of the things you're learning are necessarily going to be applicable to you, or even based on evidence. For instance, I have candida issues that crop up from time to time. You can't tell me I don't, because I ABSOLUTELY DO, and doctors on both sides- Western and Natural Medicine- can AND DO confirm this. The problem is that a lot of people who whine they have candida problems actually don't. They usually have more complex issues of gut dysbiosis, and "candida" has become a blanket term for something much more complicated in reality, and often has nothing to do specifically with candida. That's why the treatments for it don't work for everyone, or even for most people who struggle with it. This is just an example, but the biggest problem with most natural approaches is that they have a number of things and health issues that they tend to cling to as the holy grail, as well as methods of treating them, and then try to treat everyone for those few things, and only with their specific method of treating them. Additionally, far too many people into holistic medicine self-diagnose, based on a handful of symptoms, and very few naturopaths or people in the natural/ holistic health world discourage it.

This is the case for almost all of the natural medicine stuff. They want to try very hard to convince you that their way is the only way, encourage self-diagnosis, etc. There's nothing wrong with holistic medicine at all! It's just the people who follow it and practice it need to hold themselves to a higher standard. They need to actually do tests, actually know what they're doing, and stop just trying to sell everyone on a bunch of herbal supplements. Sometimes the most effective treatment is actually the western medicine. You can't magically make someone produce insulin for instance, if they've gotten to the point where their body produces none; they need western medicine. I was born with *kitten* adrenal glands that don't produce a variety of hormones in sufficient quantities; no amount of natural medicine is ever going to make me capable of producing estrogen in sufficient quantity. I need western medicine, unless I want my bones to be as brittle as fall twigs! I do not want to break a hip at 40. Screw every holistic health person who would take those away from me!

But I do totally follow that it's a great idea to reduce stress, eat a good diet, and avoid unnecessary medications, because they usually do have more side effects than finding the right supplements and lifestyle changes.

TL;DR- We don't all hate holistic medicine, but it has its pitfalls. I think we're just wary of those on here because we're not all bought and sold by people who wanna convince you that you need a $50 probiotic. The truth lies, in fact, somewhere in between. Western doctors are actually WOEFULLY UNDER EDUCATED on nutrition and how it affects certain diseases. If you don't believe me, look at the insanely short list of nutrition courses on any medical doctor's course requirements. Other than nutritionist, obviously. This is where holistic doctors are going to shine, though. Feel free to see a holistic doctor, and take their advice on nutrition and food sensitivities, but see a regular doctor to address anything substantial that is going on with your health. Then go out, do your own research, and weigh the advice of both against what you think is best for you.

WorkerDrone83 · October 2017

@jesspen91 wrote: »

Was it this?

Oh man, I have to watch a movie now. Haha. I'll check it out, but my future trust in you is depending on the quality of the video.

ETA- Turned out I really liked it. Well-played.

amusedmonkey · October 2017

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

show previous quotes

skymningen wrote: »

Disclaimer: I work with/for a bunch of scientists studying the microbiome of the gut. So to speak, I am in the "scientific peer group" of this topic. Some of them are immunologists, others nutritionists (the type that studied at university, not took some weekend course), many are different types of medical doctors or microbiologists. I will try and collect what they would say about this stuff.

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

TavistockToad wrote: »

Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?

Candida Overgrowth Was a "thing" in the 90s. There still is a common test for candida and other fungi in regular fecal samplings. But it is only a problem if it is a really extensive overgrowth. This is rare and usually only occurs after heavy antibiotic or steroid treatments. I had it myself as a child, after extensive treatment for a bad case of pertussis. There is no chance to get rid of it without taking fungicide medication if you really have it. But as I said it is rare. It cannot be caused nor treated by nutrition only.
, Leaky Gut Syndrome, It is a name for a multitude of symptoms. Some of them are symptoms of an actual problem (I wouldn't say disease, but a preliminary to disease) of the gut. Others are not evidently connected with gut health. I would advise people to get an actual diagnosis if they feel something is wrong. Some of these symptoms are early symptoms of colon cancer. Your gut is not leaking though. If it would, you'd be in trouble (both literally leaking and "immunologically" leaking)
Adrenal Fatigue Most likely a type of burnout. Burnout has psychosomatic symptoms. If the proper diagnosis is partially 'mental', that does not make it less of a disease.
, Detox, Your body does detox itself all day every day. It does not need help doing that, other than being kept properly hydrated. Actually, many detox mixes have made people severely ill by... interfering with the normal kidney function.
Connection between gut microbiome and brain health, As a microbiome person: Yeah, That's definitely one of the new buzzes in the field. And there is something to it. The gut has a lot of receptors that do only occur in higher numbers in the brain. Also, evidently, bad nutrition makes people mentally unhealthy. There is something here. But we are still doing basic science here, no results available which would be usable for treatment.
Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms There is some base truth in all of those. Not saying they are true, but they are some kind of "science myth" based on a misunderstanding of (sometimes still) badly understood biochemistry. But it is usually very far fetched. You would have to ingest incredible doses of the culprits to have a sure effect. And then you do have another underlying problem. (Confounding factors is also an important thing here...)
, soy being bad for hormonal health, The amount of hormone you ingest from soy is not going to make a difference. Unless of course you eat tons of soy. But then the malnutrition from lacking other nutrients will make much more of a difference.
regular dairy being bad for general health, I can't even really figure where this came from. If you are lactose intolerant, sure. But again, in all other cases, as long as you have a balanced diet you are not going wrong with any single part of it.
the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... Your body does not know how the gene entered the organism it is eating. If the gene should not be there and the product of the gene should not be ingested that is of course a problem, but a different one. I can also breed this gene into the organism old style, it is just going to take me much longer. The heavy metals are there, for sure. We actually need some of them in very low amounts. If they are there in too high amounts, that is a contamination and is usually heavily controlled by fod safety laboratories.
The list could go on and on

Thank you for clearing a lot of things up.

I have found some scientific data related to Leaky Gut and Candida, but couldn't find anything on Adrenal Fatigue

Leaky gut:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28328972
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28342610
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28049662
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2886850/
Candida Overgrowth: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27590517
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28799153
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28578302

How many people have been exposed to chemical weapons? How many people are mice or cows? The effects of autoimmune diseases and IBD on digestion and intestinal dysfunction are well documented and pertain to their respective diseases. They don't need a seperate made up disease label to slap on every single person you don't think eats right and they don't apply to anyone who feels out of sorts and haven't found a diagnosis yet. That's the difference.

These are diseases that can be tested for and diagnosed using reliable methods. If you have type 1 diabetes, you'll know it. Same with fungal imbalance in liver damaged individuals who take antibiotics, very specific. Not a single study you mentioned provided something outside of known testable specific conditions or presented the issues as a stand-alone condition that applies to every single one who "feels" like they have it.

amusedmonkey · October 2017

Let's look at it from another angle: a holistic practitioner focuses on a handful of controversial conditions with nondescript symptoms. A client comes in, and is bound to get diagnosed with one or more of these conditions because even completely healthy individuals can have these symptoms sometimes. Think of a doctor who would only diagnose with diabetes, dysentery, or brain tumor. You come with neuropathy, you're automatically diabetic. You come with diarrhea, you automatically have dysentery, you come with headache, you automatically have a brain tumor. They're just trying to jigsaw you into one of said categories. Would you trust such a doctor? Same with a doctor that would run a white blood cell count and automatically tell you that you have cancer.

Many symptoms and lab tests don't hinge on a single aspect. Do you not find it "interesting" that these businesses focus mostly on controversial diagnoses? Do you not get the feeling that they're just trying to capitalize on the frustration of people who have not yet found a proper medical diagnosis, or take advantage of those who believe "natural is better"?

CSARdiver · October 2017

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

show previous quotes

richln wrote: »

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

TavistockToad wrote: »

Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?

Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on

Can you point us to some of their text material or some lectures online? We will give you some good questions to ask your teachers. If they know what they are talking about, they should be up for answering your questions.

So far, the textbook they've based a lot of their information on is "The Basics of Nutrition" by Elson Haas. Unfortunately they don't give us access to powerpoints or lecture notes. They promote websites like pubmed which is good.. But then they also support people like Mercola

I'm going to say this as an academic who is infamous for questioning the methods of academia.

My personal motto is "Show me the data". There are several things I believe in, but I rarely share this with others as I have no proof to back it up. When I do I freely share my data because my ultimate goal is to refine the data and get everyone closer to the truth. Be very cautious of those who are reluctant to share information.

Truth seekers like to be questioned.

Even the terms "allopathic" and "holistic" and nothing more than marketing points used by people to sell their beliefs when the facts and body of evidence are not substantial.

3bambi3 · October 2017

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

show previous quotes

richln wrote: »

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

TavistockToad wrote: »

Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?

Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on

Can you point us to some of their text material or some lectures online? We will give you some good questions to ask your teachers. If they know what they are talking about, they should be up for answering your questions.

So far, the textbook they've based a lot of their information on is "The Basics of Nutrition" by Elson Haas. Unfortunately they don't give us access to powerpoints or lecture notes. They promote websites like pubmed which is good.. But then they also support people like Mercola

Elson Haas, you say?

https://elsonhaasmd.com/

His entire website is a sales pitch.

TenderBlender667 · October 2017

YvetteK2015 wrote: »

What school are you going to, and where is it located?

I'm studying at the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition. I am aware that this is not the best way to educate myself on Nutrition and I'm very aware of the difference between a dietitian and nutritionist. If I had the option, I definitely would've chosen to go the dietitian way, but I don't have that option right now. What led me to this area of study is the fact that I've always been skeptical of some of the treatment methods followed by western medical doctors.

I grew up with a myriad of health issues that worsened after following a standard american diet and being extremely stressed in my day-to-day life. After going to multiple doctors who prescribed me the same medication each time I went in, I developed horrible side effects and hip/joint pain at the age of 15. I decided to go off all meds, and the hip pain magically disappeared. A few years later, while doing some research, I find that the medication I was taking was linked to reduced absorption of calcium and increased risk of bone fractures. Fast forward 1 year, I did some blood tests and I find out I'm severely deficient in vitamin b12. The doctor who is supposed to care about a patient's health didn't even bother to give me b12 shots so I had to go find someone else to do it for me or take heavy doses of oral b12 myself which gave me unpleasant effects. I did some research once again because it didn't make sense that a teenager who's never been vegan her whole life would be deficient in a nutrient the body doesn't need much of to begin with. Coincidentally I found a link between the medication I was taking and Anemia. This is all anecdotal evidence so obviously there might have been other factors coming into play when I went off the medication such as my poor diet or lack of physical activity.

The fatalities and side effects of various drugs are under-reported. Pharmaceutical companies as well as the food industry pays big money to keep information hidden from the public. The long term effects of certain food, drug, and environmental agents have not been reported YET because we're still in the relatively early stages of exposure. We'll need at least another 20 years to conclude that certain chemicals are indeed carcinogenic or produce autoimmune responses in the body. I'm not saying western medicine is the source of all evils. They've saved millions of people and increased the general life span of the population. I just wish they were more open minded about nutrition's role in health and cared about their patients more rather than giving an antibiotic prescription for every ache and pain or just sending you off with these wonderful words: "If you feel like dying, just go to the hospital." This is literally what one doctor told me instead of giving me advice on how to avoid that situation. I've decided I'm probably better off taking control of my own health.

3bambi3 · October 2017

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

show previous quotes

YvetteK2015 wrote: »

What school are you going to, and where is it located?

I'm studying at the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition. I am aware that this is not the best way to educate myself on Nutrition and I'm very aware of the difference between a dietitian and nutritionist. If I had the option, I definitely would've chosen to go the dietitian way, but I don't have that option right now. What led me to this area of study is the fact that I've always been skeptical of some of the treatment methods followed by western medical doctors.

I grew up with a myriad of health issues that worsened after following a standard american diet and being extremely stressed in my day-to-day life. After going to multiple doctors who prescribed me the same medication each time I went in, I developed horrible side effects and hip/joint pain at the age of 15. I decided to go off all meds, and the hip pain magically disappeared. A few years later, while doing some research, I find that the medication I was taking was linked to reduced absorption of calcium and increased risk of bone fractures. Fast forward 1 year, I did some blood tests and I find out I'm severely deficient in vitamin b12. The doctor who is supposed to care about a patient's health didn't even bother to give me b12 shots so I had to go find someone else to do it for me or take heavy doses of oral b12 myself which gave me unpleasant effects. I did some research once again because it didn't make sense that a teenager who's never been vegan her whole life would be deficient in a nutrient the body doesn't need much of to begin with. Coincidentally I found a link between the medication I was taking and Anemia. This is all anecdotal evidence so obviously there might have been other factors coming into play when I went off the medication such as my poor diet or lack of physical activity.

The fatalities and side effects of various drugs are under-reported. Pharmaceutical companies as well as the food industry pays big money to keep information hidden from the public. The long term effects of certain food, drug, and environmental agents have not been reported YET because we're still in the relatively early stages of exposure. We'll need at least another 20 years to conclude that certain chemicals are indeed carcinogenic or produce autoimmune responses in the body. I'm not saying western medicine is the source of all evils. They've saved millions of people and increased the general life span of the population. I just wish they were more open minded about nutrition's role in health and cared about their patients more rather than giving an antibiotic prescription for every ache and pain or just sending you off with these wonderful words: "If you feel like dying, just go to the hospital." This is literally what one doctor told me instead of giving me advice on how to avoid that situation. I've decided I'm probably better off taking control of my own health.

Citation needed.

Also, I don't know that many medical professionals would poo poo a treatment that had PROVABLE positive results. The problem with most holistic remedies is that many are based on feelings and subjective data rather than objective observations.

WinoGelato · October 2017

tomteboda wrote: »

show previous quotes

TenderBlender667 wrote: »

TavistockToad wrote: »

Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?

Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on

I'm terribly surprised you aren't also being taught about laying on of hands, voodoo, prayers of intercession, healing through prayer, anointing with oil, recitation of the quaran, dianetics, electromagnetic therapy, aromatherapy, homeopathy, shamanism, chelation therapy, cupping, reiki, hypnosis, qigong, numerology, oil pulling, and the proper folding of tin foil hats.

That's the second semester curriculum. OP is only 2 months in...

Why are most mfp users against holistic nutrition?

Replies

Welcome!

Quick Links

Categories