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Why are most mfp users against holistic nutrition?
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- Part of the problem is the arrogance in western medicine.
- Part of the problem is being closed minded.
- Part of the problem is no $$$s for big medicine if they figure out eating a root you can grow yourself for free will cure you of some condition (please take our pills so we can make $$$s, then charge you again for another pill that fixes the side effects of the first pill).
- Finally, part of the problem is some, most, maybe all of it is BS.
While I understand people reluctance to believe anything that isn't backed by the FDA and government funded research, I also find it amazing that these same sheeple use no critical thinking and refuse to consider both sides may be lying for personal gains.
The fact is there isn't a whole lot of research dollars coming in to validate or disprove holistic medical claims, therefore NO scientific evidence/research being done to prove/disprove one way or the other, therefore we all assume it's all hooey.
Yes, it's the "sheeple" who don't want to pay a poorly trained or untrained person to "diagnose" and "treat" the leaky gut syndrome for which there is no scientific evidence or research.19 -
- Part of the problem is the arrogance in western medicine.
- Part of the problem is being closed minded.
- Part of the problem is no $$$s for big medicine if they figure out eating a root you can grow yourself for free will cure you of some condition (please take our pills so we can make $$$s, then charge you again for another pill that fixes the side effects of the first pill).
- Finally, part of the problem is some, most, maybe all of it is BS.
While I understand people reluctance to believe anything that isn't backed by the FDA and government funded research, I also find it amazing that these same sheeple use no critical thinking and refuse to consider both sides may be lying for personal gains.
The fact is there isn't a whole lot of research dollars coming in to validate or disprove holistic medical claims, therefore NO scientific evidence/research being done to prove/disprove one way or the other, therefore we all assume it's all hooey.
22 -
VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .27 -
finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
You do have a side though, you seem to be arguing that since true knowledge isn't possible, people should just trust their own experiences and do whatever. "You do you," that's your side.
And yes, the parents do have to live with the consequences, but the kids . . . the kids are dead with the consequences. I'm not sure the parents are paying the ultimate price here, you know?
We have an increasing trend in the West of acknowledging that maybe children aren't just voiceless hostages to fortune given to parents who are allowed to treat them however they wish, even if it ends their lives or compromises their health. Many now acknowledge that children have rights even if their parents wish it to be otherwise, basic rights to life and health. Not everyone is on board yet, but I think it's a good trend.19 -
- Part of the problem is the arrogance in western medicine.
- Part of the problem is being closed minded.
- Part of the problem is no $$$s for big medicine if they figure out eating a root you can grow yourself for free will cure you of some condition (please take our pills so we can make $$$s, then charge you again for another pill that fixes the side effects of the first pill).
- Finally, part of the problem is some, most, maybe all of it is BS.
While I understand people reluctance to believe anything that isn't backed by the FDA and government funded research, I also find it amazing that these same sheeple use no critical thinking and refuse to consider both sides may be lying for personal gains.
The fact is there isn't a whole lot of research dollars coming in to validate or disprove holistic medical claims, therefore NO scientific evidence/research being done to prove/disprove one way or the other, therefore we all assume it's all hooey.
Aspirin is extracted from tree bark or something. I don't see people going into the woods or growing their own aspirin trees.15 -
finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
One time I got a flu, so I changed into a dragon and chased the evil spirits away, so I got better. For $100 I can show you how to turn into a dragon, too.30 -
- Part of the problem is the arrogance in western medicine.
- Part of the problem is being closed minded.
- Part of the problem is no $$$s for big medicine if they figure out eating a root you can grow yourself for free will cure you of some condition (please take our pills so we can make $$$s, then charge you again for another pill that fixes the side effects of the first pill).
- Finally, part of the problem is some, most, maybe all of it is BS.
While I understand people reluctance to believe anything that isn't backed by the FDA and government funded research, I also find it amazing that these same sheeple use no critical thinking and refuse to consider both sides may be lying for personal gains.
The fact is there isn't a whole lot of research dollars coming in to validate or disprove holistic medical claims, therefore NO scientific evidence/research being done to prove/disprove one way or the other, therefore we all assume it's all hooey.
If these holistic treatments were proven to be effective, then pharmaceutical companies should be all over them to try and make money off of us sheeple, right? Why isn't that happening?
Big Pharma needs to pull Aspirin off the shelves to uphold its reputation as an organization that actively suppresses research done on plants.12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
You do have a side though, you seem to be arguing that since true knowledge isn't possible, people should just trust their own experiences and do whatever. "You do you," that's your side.
And yes, the parents do have to live with the consequences, but the kids . . . the kids are dead with the consequences. I'm not sure the parents are paying the ultimate price here, you know?
We have an increasing trend in the West of acknowledging that maybe children aren't just voiceless hostages to fortune given to parents who are allowed to treat them however they wish, even if it ends their lives or compromises their health. Many now acknowledge that children have rights even if their parents wish it to be otherwise, basic rights to life and health. Not everyone is on board yet, but I think it's a good trend.
The "parents can do what they want" stance is a weird one. You wouldn't say that about physical or sexual abuse so why is it okay to basically abuse the health of the child. It's endangerment. Not all parenting decisions are good ones and that includes the belief that plants will cure cancer (as an example).16 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?
Candida Overgrowth, Leaky Gut Syndrome, Adrenal Fatigue, Detox, Connection between gut micro biome and brain health, Refined Sugar causing disease and nutritional deficiencies, birth control pills depleting B vitamins and causing copper toxicity, Free radicals causing disease and accelerated aging, lack of hydrochloric acid causing mineral and vitamin deficiencies as well as digestive symptoms, soy being bad for hormonal health, regular dairy being bad for general health, the negative effects of GMO's, heavy metals in water and food.... The list could go on and on
The only one of these that I'm personally familiar with beyond reading stories and studies on the internet is Candida Overgrowth. My mother has a rare autoimmune disease and a host of issues from it. She's on antibiotics frequently and was on them long-term for many years. The internet convinced her to try the candida diet against her doctors wishes. She went off all sugars, including natural sugars, and also went off all of her medications: antibiotics, anti-depressants, the works. We are lucky that she only stuck with it for a week and the repercussions were fairly minor.
She does have issues with yeast and her autoimmune issues have been better now that she's treating those issues through medical science and in cooperation with her medical team instead of following some random-*** diet that the internet convinced her she needed. Had she followed the diet any longer, based on what I know of her medical history, I have no doubt that there may have been permanent issues.
This link seems relevant, though I haven't dived into it very deep: http://www.skepticnorth.com/2011/04/the-legitimacy-diet-part-1-all-nutritionists-are-certifiable/5 -
NorthCascades wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
One time I got a flu, so I changed into a dragon and chased the evil spirits away, so I got better. For $100 I can show you how to turn into a dragon, too.
Take my wallet i'm in !! haha8 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »What school are you going to, and where is it located?
I'm studying at the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition. I am aware that this is not the best way to educate myself on Nutrition and I'm very aware of the difference between a dietitian and nutritionist. If I had the option, I definitely would've chosen to go the dietitian way, but I don't have that option right now. What led me to this area of study is the fact that I've always been skeptical of some of the treatment methods followed by western medical doctors.
I grew up with a myriad of health issues that worsened after following a standard american diet and being extremely stressed in my day-to-day life. After going to multiple doctors who prescribed me the same medication each time I went in, I developed horrible side effects and hip/joint pain at the age of 15. I decided to go off all meds, and the hip pain magically disappeared. A few years later, while doing some research, I find that the medication I was taking was linked to reduced absorption of calcium and increased risk of bone fractures. Fast forward 1 year, I did some blood tests and I find out I'm severely deficient in vitamin b12. The doctor who is supposed to care about a patient's health didn't even bother to give me b12 shots so I had to go find someone else to do it for me or take heavy doses of oral b12 myself which gave me unpleasant effects. I did some research once again because it didn't make sense that a teenager who's never been vegan her whole life would be deficient in a nutrient the body doesn't need much of to begin with. Coincidentally I found a link between the medication I was taking and Anemia. This is all anecdotal evidence so obviously there might have been other factors coming into play when I went off the medication such as my poor diet or lack of physical activity.
I am sorry that happened to you. Medication has side effects, and doctors are well aware of that. Still, medication is tested to ensure that for an average patient, the beneficial effects much outweighs the side effects. Unfortunately, based on the mathematical principle of average, the average patient is only a concept. The actual patient might have very beneficial effects or severe side effects, or both. The system 'human' is too complex to predict that accurately in all cases (although people try to come up with better predictors for that, it's a hot topic right now) I am also sorry that you did not instantly get the necessary care. Where I live, getting a B12 shot would be no problem or discussion at all. Although if you are severely deficient at a young age there would also be no discussion about the fact that it is something that needs to looked into much closer. But it is hard for doctors to track all the side- and connective effects of medication. Actually, in the system I am in that is not a big part of the doctors education. It is a big part of the pharmacists education, who dispenses the medication though. They are supposed to make you aware of side effects and problems you need to look after.
The fatalities and side effects of various drugs are under-reported. Pharmaceutical companies as well as the food industry pays big money to keep information hidden from the public. The long term effects of certain food, drug, and environmental agents have not been reported YET because we're still in the relatively early stages of exposure. We'll need at least another 20 years to conclude that certain chemicals are indeed carcinogenic or produce autoimmune responses in the body. I'm not saying western medicine is the source of all evils. They've saved millions of people and increased the general life span of the population. I just wish they were more open minded about nutrition's role in health and cared about their patients more rather than giving an antibiotic prescription for every ache and pain or just sending you off with these wonderful words: "If you feel like dying, just go to the hospital." This is literally what one doctor told me instead of giving me advice on how to avoid that situation. I've decided I'm probably better off taking control of my own health.
I have been on conferences where very reasonable pharma people took part. of course they do want to earn money. But they also need to take care to adhere to all of the regulations put onto them. And many regulations are based on outdated studies and views. It takes much longer to change them, than it takes to research the things, it seems. A very specific problem is, that they have to prove their medication works on average. There is the average again. They cannot (currently) go out and say 'The 20% of people with that disease which are part of a specific subgroup of patients will benefit greatly from our medication, the other 80% will have no or even detrimental effects.' This medication will never be released. We are not treating the 20%, even if we could. The testing and verification needed to do this is not yet mainstream enough. Instead, we are treating the 75%. And let the remaining 25% run into side effects that could have been prevented by testing and selective drugs. Many of the people in the field are open to this problem. And many also are not. I work with people who try to find an easy to use predictor that would tell doctors when antibiotics would do more harm then good and when (and what combination) will do more good than harm. It is not an easy task. It will not work for all patients or all antibiotics. But it's not like conventional medicine does not try.7 -
finny11122 wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
My problem with your statements is that some ideas/beliefs/teachings don't deserve respect. And certainly don't deserve to be on an even playing field with facts and proven science.
As i said in previous comments . I don't have a horse in this race . Modern medicine is fantastic and hollistic has many benifits for many people . As i said in my orginal comment to the OP - go with what works for her and makes her healthy and happy .
If they can provide all of these supposed benefits, then practitioners should have little difficulty providing some legitimate and credible proof for their existence. That they are unable to do so would I think send up some huge red flags.
We have laws in the US for practicing medicine without a license that carry stiff penalties for very good reason. These types of bozos sidestep these laws by labeling and structuring their organizations in such a way to avoid any potential liability. As Jane aptly point out, these charlatans can and often do inflict real harm upon unsuspecting and trusting people, and we would be doing forum members a disservice for not calling them exactly what they are.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
You do have a side though, you seem to be arguing that since true knowledge isn't possible, people should just trust their own experiences and do whatever. "You do you," that's your side.
And yes, the parents do have to live with the consequences, but the kids . . . the kids are dead with the consequences. I'm not sure the parents are paying the ultimate price here, you know?
We have an increasing trend in the West of acknowledging that maybe children aren't just voiceless hostages to fortune given to parents who are allowed to treat them however they wish, even if it ends their lives or compromises their health. Many now acknowledge that children have rights even if their parents wish it to be otherwise, basic rights to life and health. Not everyone is on board yet, but I think it's a good trend.
Don't put me in a category of your making . I make decisions based on what works for me . I get help from those who offer help and are willing to help from all walks of life .
And the things you are talking about children and their parents is out of our control . The next time you see a parent doing something you don't agree with , say it to their face . You will probably not get a good responce from them .22 -
I suppose I fall somewhere in the middle as to holistic being able to treat disorders. There are some disorders/illnesses that should be treated with medications/antibiotics. Strep throat for example. Could this be treated holistically? I'm sure it could and has been, but having that holistic remedy fail can lead to serious complications (rhumatic fever etc). A simple course of antibiotics could take care of it.
Those antibiotics can lead to their own set of issues though, such as oral thrush and/or poor gut health due to killing off the good bacteria. In this instance I feel diet and a holistic approach can help this issue of re-establishing the body's balance and normal flora.
If traditional medicine isn't helping a condition, I don't see anything wrong with trying a different approach.10 -
VintageFeline wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
You do have a side though, you seem to be arguing that since true knowledge isn't possible, people should just trust their own experiences and do whatever. "You do you," that's your side.
And yes, the parents do have to live with the consequences, but the kids . . . the kids are dead with the consequences. I'm not sure the parents are paying the ultimate price here, you know?
We have an increasing trend in the West of acknowledging that maybe children aren't just voiceless hostages to fortune given to parents who are allowed to treat them however they wish, even if it ends their lives or compromises their health. Many now acknowledge that children have rights even if their parents wish it to be otherwise, basic rights to life and health. Not everyone is on board yet, but I think it's a good trend.
The "parents can do what they want" stance is a weird one. You wouldn't say that about physical or sexual abuse so why is it okay to basically abuse the health of the child. It's endangerment. Not all parenting decisions are good ones and that includes the belief that plants will cure cancer (as an example).
I mean, I can do a lot of things that would probably be tough to live with afterwards (get drunk and drive into a school bus, run a con on an older person and take their life savings, hurt a dog), but we don't -- as a society -- just shrug and say "That choice is up to her and she has to live with the consequences."
No, they're against the law because it is harming others and infringing on their rights. But when it comes to kids and their ability to recover from a treatable illness, too much of the time we're assuming that the only reasonable consequence is that the parents feel pain and regret for their decision to deny medical treatment.
That's ridiculous. We don't automatically assume that parents are right when it comes to physical punishment and we certainly don't assume they're right if they decide that sexual abuse is okay. So why so much latitude when it comes to this area?7 -
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I suppose I fall somewhere in the middle as to holistic being able to treat disorders. There are some disorders/illnesses that should be treated with medications/antibiotics. Strep throat for example. Could this be treated holistically? I'm sure it could and has been, but having that holistic remedy fail can lead to serious complications (rhumatic fever etc). A simple course of antibiotics could take care of it.
Those antibiotics can lead to their own set of issues though, such as oral thrush and/or poor gut health due to killing off the good bacteria. In this instance I feel diet and a holistic approach can help this issue of re-establishing the body's balance and normal flora.
If traditional medicine isn't helping a condition, I don't see anything wrong with trying a different approach.
But strep throat is an actual diagnosed illness, for which a person can choose to treat with medication or look for holistic options if they choose. I personally believe strongly in better living through chemistry, but I know that others prefer alternatives and I have limited concerns with that approach if one is choosing the treatment for themselves and not as a caregiver for a child or loved one who isn't making the treatment choice.
What the OP is describing is that the curriculum of the program she is attending is promoting a myriad of afflictions that aren't actually real, so that they can then teach the students how to diagnose and treat them.
That is what most people in this thread are objecting so strongly to - the concept that these holistic practitioners are falsely creating concern about conditions that don't exist so that they can profit by treating them. I'm not sure why the people who are so anti Big Pharma because oh no they make a profit, aren't similarly outraged at the concept of creating a false sense of need to treat something that doesn't exist...
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I suppose I fall somewhere in the middle as to holistic being able to treat disorders. There are some disorders/illnesses that should be treated with medications/antibiotics. Strep throat for example. Could this be treated holistically? I'm sure it could and has been, but having that holistic remedy fail can lead to serious complications (rhumatic fever etc). A simple course of antibiotics could take care of it.
Those antibiotics can lead to their own set of issues though, such as oral thrush and/or poor gut health due to killing off the good bacteria. In this instance I feel diet and a holistic approach can help this issue of re-establishing the body's balance and normal flora.
If traditional medicine isn't helping a condition, I don't see anything wrong with trying a different approach.
The thing is, you don't need pseudoscience for that (let alone pseudoscience aimed at clearing your pockets). You don't need to be told you have candida overgrowth, which you may not have. There are several species and strains in the gut and the imbalance may have nothing to do with candida, which is the only thing a holistic practitioner would narrowly jump to. I would be interested in research on supplementing with specific probiotics with or after specific antibiotic use and if that could be part of the treatment if there is merit.
Take it from me, and I won't even ask for their asking price ($99.99 should be enough): eat your vegetables and yogurt and you will hopefully be okay in a couple of weeks. And I didn't even need to study chakras to come up with that!8 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I suppose I fall somewhere in the middle as to holistic being able to treat disorders. There are some disorders/illnesses that should be treated with medications/antibiotics. Strep throat for example. Could this be treated holistically? I'm sure it could and has been, but having that holistic remedy fail can lead to serious complications (rhumatic fever etc). A simple course of antibiotics could take care of it.
Those antibiotics can lead to their own set of issues though, such as oral thrush and/or poor gut health due to killing off the good bacteria. In this instance I feel diet and a holistic approach can help this issue of re-establishing the body's balance and normal flora.
If traditional medicine isn't helping a condition, I don't see anything wrong with trying a different approach.
The thing is, you don't need pseudoscience for that (let alone pseudoscience aimed at clearing your pockets). You don't need to be told you have candida overgrowth, which you may not have. There are several species and strains in the gut and the imbalance may have nothing to do with candida, which is the only thing a holistic practitioner would narrowly jump to. I would be interested in research on supplementing with specific probiotics with or after specific antibiotic use and if that could be part of the treatment if there is merit.
Take it from me, and I won't even ask for their asking price ($99.99 should be enough): eat your vegetables and yogurt and you will hopefully be okay in a couple of weeks. And I didn't even need to study chakras to come up with that!
I think I might have mis-understood the way in which "holistic approach" is being used. When I said a holistic approach could be used to restore gut flora, I meant exactly what you described (eating yogurt, fermented foods, probiotics etc). Isn't that considered a holistic approach (seriously asking)?2
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