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Flu shots? For them or against ?
Replies
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Re the bolded, I read an article recently (can't remember where) by a medical pro who suggested to their patients more vulnerable to the flu to wait until at least October to get the shot. Said that the protection does trail off and you are more likely to get the flu toward the end of flu season rather than early (August and September). So better to cover your butt so to speak for the end of the season rather than the beginning.
I also read that studies show people who get shots in the morning experience less tenderness in their arm than those who get the shot later in the day. They don't know why, but I'm all about stacking the deck in my favor when all else is equal
. I have two little nephews and my parents are in their 70s, so I will be heading to CVS this week or next to get my shot. I have been blessed by what I can only assume is a strong immune system and good luck, as I hardly ever get sick, but the people around me are not always that lucky.
That's interesting - thank you , will remember that next year! Did have it done in the morning, very little soreness 0 -
cmriverside wrote: »
One thing I don't think you realize is that each year the shot changes. So each shot you get (or the people who are around your daughter, with asthma) gives you an immunity to a new strain of virus. So over the years, you are building an immunity to many strains.
I am really struggling to understand. Would you tell the people who work with your daughter to not get flu shots? Because that's the risk you are putting everyone else in. You don't go to the grocery? The gas station? You never touch anything that other people touch? You literally only see three people in your office, and that's it? What if one of those three people has a loved one who would be seriously affected? Really? You're that selfish?
I realize that it changes every year. I would never tell anyone not to get a flu shot. My daughter who is at risk for flu always got them and still does as an adult. You can call me selfish if you want. There have been plenty of times that they will only give flu shots to people who are at risk because they don't have enough and they only will give them to the patients who they think need them.
And yes there are literally only 3 people in my office and 2 of them aren't even here every day. There are plenty of days that I don't see anyone besides my husband.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I get a flu shot every year, have not had a cold or flu in 5 years, since starting the shots.
Ditto for me too!0 -
Oh, and re the study linking flu shots to miscarriages:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/new-study-finds-link-between-flu-vaccine-and-miscarriage-it-real
There have been many studies over the years showing flu shots are safe for pregnant women, this is the first one to suggest any risk, and it isn't exactly convincing.
I find much more frightening the fact that a number of nurses and other ancillary healthcare pros have shown up in this thread posting conspiracy theories and Facebook headlines.
It's quite amazing, not just here, but at my work too.
Edited to clarify.0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »
That is the case in part because healthcare pros have not found unbiased medical evidence that supports the net value of flu shots as being positive. I understand some may have an emotional need to think there is medical evidence validating getting the flu shot but they can not come up with medical evidence that supports their emotional position.12 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »That is the case in part because healthcare pros have not found unbiased medical evidence that supports the net value of flu shots as being positive. I understand some may have an emotional need to think there is medical evidence validating getting the flu shot but they can not come up with medical evidence that supports their emotional position.
What a curious thing to say. I guess it depends how tightly you are wearing your tinfoil hat as to who you actually believe to be unbiased. Or which "they" you get your information from. I went looking and found quite a lot of credible evidence from medical bodies around the world who don't make any money from vaccinations. On balance.. And once again, depending on who you choose to find credible. It's a heck of a lot easier to find credible evidence that supports the effectiveness of vaccines than it is to find solid evidence against them.
Is someone making money from flu vaccinations? Yes. Is it a lot of money? Well sure, there are some big contracts. But the world health organization estimates the cost of making a vaccine is around 90% of what big pharma sells it for.. So we aren't talking crazy snake anti-venom markups here. I can't find evidence of profiteering from Flu shots.
I personally think it's important to remember that no drug has ever been or likely ever will be given a 100% safety or effectiveness rating. And vaccines can only offer to boost your resistance to some strains.. A flu shot will not protect you from every flu variant.. But from what I am reading from sources I have decided to find reputable is that when you get a shot that covers the strains you are most likely to encounter in a flu season, you have about a 52% chance of benefit from the vaccine and a 1% chance of a serious side effect.
TLDR: There is a lot of data available. Go do some reading and make your own choices.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »
That is the case in part because healthcare pros have not found unbiased medical evidence that supports the net value of flu shots as being positive. I understand some may have an emotional need to think there is medical evidence validating getting the flu shot but they can not come up with medical evidence that supports their emotional position.
Why is my decision to have the shot any more emotional than your decision not to?8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
That is the case in part because healthcare pros have not found unbiased medical evidence that supports the net value of flu shots as being positive. I understand some may have an emotional need to think there is medical evidence validating getting the flu shot but they can not come up with medical evidence that supports their emotional position.
And all the anti-vax arguments are based in cold hard logic and facts....10 -
Iheartrunning36 wrote: »A study just came out that linked flu shot to pregnancy losses. I think it's worthless unless your immune system is compromised but even then it doesn't protect anyone, not really....so many strains of flu and unlike bacterial sickness a virus can't be treated with antibiotics and no cure for the flu virus. Big pharm fail and I work in health care. I've had to have the flu shot and still always get sick. I'm against them. Microbiology in college set me straight. It can't guarantee protection and if you look at what a virus is, how it lives and its structure......just a no brainer. I used to be pro vaccination until a college education, vaccinated first kid and second one no freaking way. Research the additives. Research the doctors who are against it....
Do you also not wear seat belts because they can't guarantee protection and, in some cases, can even kill you? Or do you wear your seat belt because it gives you an increased chance to be safe, and a much better chance than not wearing one at all.6 -
I have never caught the flu until I got my first flu shot. So for me personally I feel like I don't need them. Nevertheless I get them every year because it's mandatory working in healthcare. If I worked somewhere else I wouldn't bother.6
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HisRedDiamond wrote: »I have never caught the flu until I got my first flu shot. So for me personally I feel like I don't need them. Nevertheless I get them every year because it's mandatory working in healthcare. If I worked somewhere else I wouldn't bother.
The flu shot doesn't give you the flu, as has been said countless times in this thread. What do you do in healthcare?5 -
Because anecdote is totally data
, I'll share my experience with getting vs not getting the flu shot. I've said before that I'm pretty homebound. I don't work and have no children, so the only place I really go is the grocery store and the doctor's office (I go to the doctor every few weeks, but only because I drive my mom around town, and she needs to see them frequently).
I usually get the flu shot every year anyway, because I've HAD the flu. It's miserable, I got the flu three out of the four years I was in college. I probably infected half my history class one year, because the day I came down with the flu, I knew I had it (I'd had it the year before and knew the feeling) I found my history professor and asked if I could make arrangements to take the next the test that was scheduled for next week at a later date when I was recovered. He didn't believe I was coming down with the flu, and said it was "not possible" (I went to a *kitten* *kitten* university, I ended up dropping two other classes that semester that wouldn't work with me because of my flu) so I dragged myself to class with a 103 degree fever and took the *kitten* test and got a C. Dumbass. Anyway, I digress.
So, the one year I forgot to get the flu shot, I came down with the flu on my anniversary. I was fine that afternoon, but by that evening I felt like *kitten*. Sure enough, doctor said I had flu. Tamiflu is wonderful stuff though, it helped a lot.
Every year after that? Flu shot and no flu.
So my n+1 is flu shot=100% likelyhood of no flu. No flu shot 100%=likelyhood of flu. It's included in my copay if I see my doctor, so why wouldn't I get it?5 -
Apparences can be deceiving. Eat an apple. I hear it is good for the bones.0
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I'll be getting mine next week. 2
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I got into a discussion with my dental hygienist yesterday about flu shots. Well, she got into a discussion. I just asked if they were required at that dentist office for the employees. She had her hands in my mouth and was holding sharp instruments, which was probably for the best since she had all kinds of odd beliefs that I am glad I couldn't refute without biting her.
Maybe I should stick a hand in my own mouth when people start talking about this.3 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »
Update: I'm still alive.
I woo'ed this because I suspect it's just government propaganda 8 -
I don't think it's particularly important for healthy individuals but it is life saving for at risk groups like the elderly and those with certain conditions.
I'm not at risk- and now work requires me to have it every year because I come in regular contact with at risk people. I fully support it being mandatory for certain positions- spesh health pros- because then the flu shot not only HELPS protects the recipient, it also helps protect the contacts of the recipient.
No qualms about it being a gov conspiracy and I pay $15-$30 for it.2 -
Even doctors fall victim to the "I got the flu shot and got sick so I shouldn't get the flu shot" fallacy.
My mom is elderly, diabetic, and home bound. She sees a podiatrist every six months that comes to her house to trim her toenails and check her feet. They were talking about the flu shot this last week when the doctor stopped by, and it turns out that this doctor doesn't get them!
She works with the elderly, in their homes, and doesn't get a flu shot because she got one once and got sick afterwards. So post hoc ergo propter hoc, it was the flu shot and she shouldnt get them.
My mom can't get the flu shot because she's egg intolerant (or believes she is). I know there are egg free ones out there, but she won't get those either.
I'm not really happy with this doctor. She runs her own practice, so no one can make her get one, but she's putting all her patients at risk.2 -
I get a flu shot every year and just got mine this year.
I once caught the flu w/in the 14 day immunization period but I don't believe that I got it because of the shot. If that was so, I'd catch the flu every year and I don't. In fact I haven't had the flu for over 5 yrs. Don't know if that's because of the shot or not but IMO it's better to be safe than sorry.
I also get every other immunization that is recommended.
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TeacupsAndToning wrote: »
Update: I'm still alive.
Considering this was posted on Friday the 13th, I'm thinking this was actually her ghost posting.2 -
I got mine - had a small lupus flare in response to it, which is not uncommon for people with lupus - it sounds bad until you realize that having full-fledged flu would almost certainly have caused a severe lupus flare. Since a flare for me typically means circulatory system inflammation, vasculitis, and heart problems severe enough to make me bedridden for days, the little flare I had - headaches and vasculitis spots on my feet for a few days - is definitely a bargain. Here's hoping that our vaccine this year is a better match in the Northern Hemisphere than it has been in Australia, they had a terrible flu season this year.2
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For. Every doctor I know says get it. I didn't one year and was out of work sick for a whole week. Never missed it after that.1
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On the point about egg intolerance/ allergies - it is true that glue vaccine is cultivated in egg culture.
However the amount in the vaccine is absolutely minimal.
Unless you have an anaphylactic reaction to the tiniest contact with egg particles - extremely rare in adults - then you can safely have flu vaccine.
People who get a rash or get nausea, bloating etc from eating eggs are sometimes avoiding flu vaccine completely unneccesarily.0 -
https://medsask.usask.ca/documents/newsletters/33.4%20annual_flu_immunization.pdf
".....Dr. Skowronski’s group reported that study participants who received the 2014–2015
vaccine without vaccination the year before had significant protection against influenza A(H3N2) but those who
had received the identical 2013-2014 vaccine the previous year had no increased protection and those who were
vaccinated three years in a row actually had an increased risk of contracting influenza compared with unvaccinated
participants......
This is not the first study to find an association between previous vaccination and reduced vaccine effectiveness......"
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TeacupsAndToning wrote: »
Gale,
Literally about two sentences down from where you left off the opening paragraph says this "... According to expert reviewers from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC's) Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness Network and the Group Health Research Institute in Seattle, the research in this study was well done (3); however the study was observational in nature, therefore the role of chance, bias and confounding in the results cannot be ruled out (2)."
It's improper to only state the "facts" that support your opinion.
Then I take it you are not a lawyer?
As you well know I posted the link so everyone has the full story that points out the science behind the downside of getting flu shots if one is interested in looking at both sides of the same coin.5 -
LOL autocorrect glue vaccine. I wonder what Siri must think of human viruses?0
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I wonder, as this thread is still rambling on on this particular website... what would the effect on public health be if all the effort expended on increasing flu vaccine uptake was put into preventing obesity?2
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I get the shot every year. When my now 18 year old daughter was 3 we got the flu at the same time. I’ve never been so sick. We were in bed for nearly 2 weeks and I dropped 15 pounds. It was awful- i do think my immunity is up because of that illness but I’ll try to avoid ever having the flu again1
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quiksylver296 wrote: »I make my kid get one, because I don't want to deal with him puking all over the place (mother-of-the-year material, I am). I get one because I hate puking. Hubby never gets one.
The flu shot doesn’t prevent the stomach flu/rotavirus.3 -
Rosemary7391 wrote: »I wonder, as this thread is still rambling on on this particular website... what would the effect on public health be if all the effort expended on increasing flu vaccine uptake was put into preventing obesity?
Totally unrelated. Would lowered obesity rates prevent flu deaths?
I’m anti death in all the ways it stalks us.1
This discussion has been closed.
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