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Why are most mfp users against holistic nutrition?
Replies
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lemurcat12 wrote: »(I thought it was a joke.)
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_5?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=taleb+black+swan&sprefix=taleb,aps,211&crid=2VPAJ1YGX63I3
Here's a joke on the subject
A mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer are riding a train through Scotland.
The engineer looks out the window, sees a black sheep, and exclaims, "Hey! They've got black sheep in Scotland!"
The physicist looks out the window and corrects the engineer, "Strictly speaking, all we know is that there's at least one black sheep in Scotland."
The mathematician looks out the window and corrects the physicist, " Strictly speaking, all we know is that is that at least one side of one sheep is black in Scotland."
17 -
mshanepace wrote: »I love it. The responses in here kill me. My typos and, potential, grammatical mistakes I'll leave in, since I'm not going to re-read this after I've written it (and yet.. I had to re-read myself.. I modified for meaning only however, corrected names and improved for meaning only... I left in the rest)... Though it wasn't a common believe the "science" of the past would bleed people. Also, a common thought in the "science" of the past, the world was flat and the Earth is the middle of existence. Hypothesis, theorems...etc... Show ME the evidence AGAINST leaky gut. The actual goal of a scientific study is to prove oneself incorrect and NOT to prove oneself to be correct. To suggest that there are NO black swans is to always be on the search for a black Swan NOT to ignore one when you find one. Let's take the information from Ancel Keyes, and group, and break down what's occurred since his hypothesis was followed. The United States of America has gone down a road of spiraling out of control health crises. Diabetes, which was barely recognized in the seventies and eighties, is out of containment, a complete household word because SO many people have it now. You've gotten vegans and vegetarians arguing "facts" about agendas while THEY'VE got agendas. Absolute fact, as the show What The Health quotes on all the funding behind the different organisations, their "experts" and "researchers" are being paid by vegan organisations. Their research IS funded by those WANTING the results they're finding. Are you kidding me!?! Lies in plain sight by omittions are still lies. Misleading everyone because you BELIEVE something is wrong doesn't make it right. The perpetual argument that there are NO black Swans, while looking at a Black Swan, is not only self deceiving but is a complete destroyer of what you all are referring to as science. I don't have to bring evidence against sugar to suggest sugar is the problem, or the level of said sugar is the problem, you've got to prove it isn't the problem. THAT'S science!!! Let's take some true science into THIS discussion. You DON'T NEED carbs to live!!! It's proven... You can't live without Fats! PERIOD!! You can't live without proteins!! PERIOD!!! But you can live on ZERO carbs!!! I'm not suggesting it's the best way to live, BUT, you can!! So, here is my suggest to anyone wanting to prove that I'm incorrect, take the scientific test and ONLY live on Carbs!! You'll DIE but give it an honest go. People HAVE and DO live on NO carb diets. Welcome to a REAL scientific test. Stop purporting to know sciences when you aren't even trying to disprove what is in front of you. I don't care of you've got a Master's or a PhD, anytime you are proving yourself right YOU'RE NOT using a scientific method! I assume I'm going to now be slammed by those of you whom BELIEVE you know better, bring it! At the end of the day, you're wrong! I truly don't care what your thoughts on this topic are or what you think of me, you're wrong. Stay blind! But, if you want to prove my statement wrong... No supplements, no fats, no proteins... Carb only diet.. Prove it! Crud, just no fats and no supplements... Proteins and carbs!!! Go!!! Prove yourselves correct, and die in the process. Because you will... I'll drop this and you can now vulture attack me.
Carb-dependency stays intact for people until one makes the effort of getting out of the vortex of being carb-dependent - which most seem reluctant to try (the messaging is pervasive to 'trust those whole grains', so it is not surprising). It is almost analogous to a 'root kit' for computer operating systems or perhaps 'The Matrix' of Western Industrial nutrition?
If people did manage to escape their carb-dependent state, they might then learn their bodies can access their own body fat stores efficiently, make glucose (Gluconeogenesis) from dietary or endogenous proteins (as required), allow their bodies to perform maintenance more effectively in a state or hormonal balance...trusting more in how we are all made, rather than the marketing message of 'how to be healthy'. This information is slowly making it to the surface of many discussions now as real results for health and performance are evident.
However, this awareness is still contentious (even among the fitness crowd) and will likely remain the realm of word of mouth and N=1 experimentation success stories for awhile longer, due to continued strong industrial food interests influencing the mass (marketing) messaging AND the propagated historical misinformation (Ancel Keyes' 'bad saturated fats' study, etc.) that is still being used to sell 'whole grains'.
Science is slowly turning the tables on the misinformation, but it will take time to undo the damage to what is now 'common knowledge'.32 -
PrimalForLife wrote: »mshanepace wrote: »I love it. The responses in here kill me. My typos and, potential, grammatical mistakes I'll leave in, since I'm not going to re-read this after I've written it (and yet.. I had to re-read myself.. I modified for meaning only however, corrected names and improved for meaning only... I left in the rest)... Though it wasn't a common believe the "science" of the past would bleed people. Also, a common thought in the "science" of the past, the world was flat and the Earth is the middle of existence. Hypothesis, theorems...etc... Show ME the evidence AGAINST leaky gut. The actual goal of a scientific study is to prove oneself incorrect and NOT to prove oneself to be correct. To suggest that there are NO black swans is to always be on the search for a black Swan NOT to ignore one when you find one. Let's take the information from Ancel Keyes, and group, and break down what's occurred since his hypothesis was followed. The United States of America has gone down a road of spiraling out of control health crises. Diabetes, which was barely recognized in the seventies and eighties, is out of containment, a complete household word because SO many people have it now. You've gotten vegans and vegetarians arguing "facts" about agendas while THEY'VE got agendas. Absolute fact, as the show What The Health quotes on all the funding behind the different organisations, their "experts" and "researchers" are being paid by vegan organisations. Their research IS funded by those WANTING the results they're finding. Are you kidding me!?! Lies in plain sight by omittions are still lies. Misleading everyone because you BELIEVE something is wrong doesn't make it right. The perpetual argument that there are NO black Swans, while looking at a Black Swan, is not only self deceiving but is a complete destroyer of what you all are referring to as science. I don't have to bring evidence against sugar to suggest sugar is the problem, or the level of said sugar is the problem, you've got to prove it isn't the problem. THAT'S science!!! Let's take some true science into THIS discussion. You DON'T NEED carbs to live!!! It's proven... You can't live without Fats! PERIOD!! You can't live without proteins!! PERIOD!!! But you can live on ZERO carbs!!! I'm not suggesting it's the best way to live, BUT, you can!! So, here is my suggest to anyone wanting to prove that I'm incorrect, take the scientific test and ONLY live on Carbs!! You'll DIE but give it an honest go. People HAVE and DO live on NO carb diets. Welcome to a REAL scientific test. Stop purporting to know sciences when you aren't even trying to disprove what is in front of you. I don't care of you've got a Master's or a PhD, anytime you are proving yourself right YOU'RE NOT using a scientific method! I assume I'm going to now be slammed by those of you whom BELIEVE you know better, bring it! At the end of the day, you're wrong! I truly don't care what your thoughts on this topic are or what you think of me, you're wrong. Stay blind! But, if you want to prove my statement wrong... No supplements, no fats, no proteins... Carb only diet.. Prove it! Crud, just no fats and no supplements... Proteins and carbs!!! Go!!! Prove yourselves correct, and die in the process. Because you will... I'll drop this and you can now vulture attack me.
Carb-dependency stays intact for people until one makes the effort of getting out of the vortex of being carb-dependent - which most seem reluctant to try (the messaging is pervasive to 'trust those whole grains', so it is not surprising). It is almost analogous to a 'root kit' for computer operating systems or perhaps 'The Matrix' of Western Industrial nutrition?
If people did manage to escape their carb-dependent state, they might then learn their bodies can access their own body fat stores efficiently, make glucose (Gluconeogenesis) from dietary or endogenous proteins (as required), allow their bodies to perform maintenance more effectively in a state or hormonal balance...trusting more in how we are all made, rather than the marketing message of 'how to be healthy'. This information is slowly making it to the surface of many discussions now as real results for health and performance are evident.
However, this awareness woo is still contentious wrong (even among the fitness crowd) and will likely remain the realm of word of mouth and N=1 experimentation success stories wrong for awhile longer, due to continued strong industrial food interests influencing the mass (marketing) messaging AND the propagated historical misinformation (Ancel Keyes' 'bad saturated fats' study, etc.) that is still being used to sell 'whole grains' ever.
Science is slowly turning the tables on the misinformation, but it will take time to undo the damage to what is now 'common knowledge'.
FIFY13 -
PrimalForLife wrote: »mshanepace wrote: »I love it. The responses in here kill me. My typos and, potential, grammatical mistakes I'll leave in, since I'm not going to re-read this after I've written it (and yet.. I had to re-read myself.. I modified for meaning only however, corrected names and improved for meaning only... I left in the rest)... Though it wasn't a common believe the "science" of the past would bleed people. Also, a common thought in the "science" of the past, the world was flat and the Earth is the middle of existence. Hypothesis, theorems...etc... Show ME the evidence AGAINST leaky gut. The actual goal of a scientific study is to prove oneself incorrect and NOT to prove oneself to be correct. To suggest that there are NO black swans is to always be on the search for a black Swan NOT to ignore one when you find one. Let's take the information from Ancel Keyes, and group, and break down what's occurred since his hypothesis was followed. The United States of America has gone down a road of spiraling out of control health crises. Diabetes, which was barely recognized in the seventies and eighties, is out of containment, a complete household word because SO many people have it now. You've gotten vegans and vegetarians arguing "facts" about agendas while THEY'VE got agendas. Absolute fact, as the show What The Health quotes on all the funding behind the different organisations, their "experts" and "researchers" are being paid by vegan organisations. Their research IS funded by those WANTING the results they're finding. Are you kidding me!?! Lies in plain sight by omittions are still lies. Misleading everyone because you BELIEVE something is wrong doesn't make it right. The perpetual argument that there are NO black Swans, while looking at a Black Swan, is not only self deceiving but is a complete destroyer of what you all are referring to as science. I don't have to bring evidence against sugar to suggest sugar is the problem, or the level of said sugar is the problem, you've got to prove it isn't the problem. THAT'S science!!! Let's take some true science into THIS discussion. You DON'T NEED carbs to live!!! It's proven... You can't live without Fats! PERIOD!! You can't live without proteins!! PERIOD!!! But you can live on ZERO carbs!!! I'm not suggesting it's the best way to live, BUT, you can!! So, here is my suggest to anyone wanting to prove that I'm incorrect, take the scientific test and ONLY live on Carbs!! You'll DIE but give it an honest go. People HAVE and DO live on NO carb diets. Welcome to a REAL scientific test. Stop purporting to know sciences when you aren't even trying to disprove what is in front of you. I don't care of you've got a Master's or a PhD, anytime you are proving yourself right YOU'RE NOT using a scientific method! I assume I'm going to now be slammed by those of you whom BELIEVE you know better, bring it! At the end of the day, you're wrong! I truly don't care what your thoughts on this topic are or what you think of me, you're wrong. Stay blind! But, if you want to prove my statement wrong... No supplements, no fats, no proteins... Carb only diet.. Prove it! Crud, just no fats and no supplements... Proteins and carbs!!! Go!!! Prove yourselves correct, and die in the process. Because you will... I'll drop this and you can now vulture attack me.
Carb-dependency stays intact for people until one makes the effort of getting out of the vortex of being carb-dependent - which most seem reluctant to try (the messaging is pervasive to 'trust those whole grains', so it is not surprising). It is almost analogous to a 'root kit' for computer operating systems or perhaps 'The Matrix' of Western Industrial nutrition?
If people did manage to escape their carb-dependent state, they might then learn their bodies can access their own body fat stores efficiently, make glucose (Gluconeogenesis) from dietary or endogenous proteins (as required), allow their bodies to perform maintenance more effectively in a state or hormonal balance...trusting more in how we are all made, rather than the marketing message of 'how to be healthy'. This information is slowly making it to the surface of many discussions now as real results for health and performance are evident.
However, this awareness is still contentious (even among the fitness crowd) and will likely remain the realm of word of mouth and N=1 experimentation success stories for awhile longer, due to continued strong industrial food interests influencing the mass (marketing) messaging AND the propagated historical misinformation (Ancel Keyes' 'bad saturated fats' study, etc.) that is still being used to sell 'whole grains'.
Science is slowly turning the tables on the misinformation, but it will take time to undo the damage to what is now 'common knowledge'.
I suggest you spend some time reading through the debate section of the community - the concept of whether there is any advantage to a LCHF diet for the population at large - those who aren't insulin resistant, athletes, etc is something that has been discussed many times, with citations to studies, etc.
I love when we have new exuberant posters, specifically keto converts, who assume that those of us who are successful in weight loss/management, achieving health and fitness goals by eating a macro balanced diet are just "carb dependent" and deluded by mass marketing and historical misinformation.17 -
WinoGelato wrote: »PrimalForLife wrote: »mshanepace wrote: »I love it. The responses in here kill me. My typos and, potential, grammatical mistakes I'll leave in, since I'm not going to re-read this after I've written it (and yet.. I had to re-read myself.. I modified for meaning only however, corrected names and improved for meaning only... I left in the rest)... Though it wasn't a common believe the "science" of the past would bleed people. Also, a common thought in the "science" of the past, the world was flat and the Earth is the middle of existence. Hypothesis, theorems...etc... Show ME the evidence AGAINST leaky gut. The actual goal of a scientific study is to prove oneself incorrect and NOT to prove oneself to be correct. To suggest that there are NO black swans is to always be on the search for a black Swan NOT to ignore one when you find one. Let's take the information from Ancel Keyes, and group, and break down what's occurred since his hypothesis was followed. The United States of America has gone down a road of spiraling out of control health crises. Diabetes, which was barely recognized in the seventies and eighties, is out of containment, a complete household word because SO many people have it now. You've gotten vegans and vegetarians arguing "facts" about agendas while THEY'VE got agendas. Absolute fact, as the show What The Health quotes on all the funding behind the different organisations, their "experts" and "researchers" are being paid by vegan organisations. Their research IS funded by those WANTING the results they're finding. Are you kidding me!?! Lies in plain sight by omittions are still lies. Misleading everyone because you BELIEVE something is wrong doesn't make it right. The perpetual argument that there are NO black Swans, while looking at a Black Swan, is not only self deceiving but is a complete destroyer of what you all are referring to as science. I don't have to bring evidence against sugar to suggest sugar is the problem, or the level of said sugar is the problem, you've got to prove it isn't the problem. THAT'S science!!! Let's take some true science into THIS discussion. You DON'T NEED carbs to live!!! It's proven... You can't live without Fats! PERIOD!! You can't live without proteins!! PERIOD!!! But you can live on ZERO carbs!!! I'm not suggesting it's the best way to live, BUT, you can!! So, here is my suggest to anyone wanting to prove that I'm incorrect, take the scientific test and ONLY live on Carbs!! You'll DIE but give it an honest go. People HAVE and DO live on NO carb diets. Welcome to a REAL scientific test. Stop purporting to know sciences when you aren't even trying to disprove what is in front of you. I don't care of you've got a Master's or a PhD, anytime you are proving yourself right YOU'RE NOT using a scientific method! I assume I'm going to now be slammed by those of you whom BELIEVE you know better, bring it! At the end of the day, you're wrong! I truly don't care what your thoughts on this topic are or what you think of me, you're wrong. Stay blind! But, if you want to prove my statement wrong... No supplements, no fats, no proteins... Carb only diet.. Prove it! Crud, just no fats and no supplements... Proteins and carbs!!! Go!!! Prove yourselves correct, and die in the process. Because you will... I'll drop this and you can now vulture attack me.
Carb-dependency stays intact for people until one makes the effort of getting out of the vortex of being carb-dependent - which most seem reluctant to try (the messaging is pervasive to 'trust those whole grains', so it is not surprising). It is almost analogous to a 'root kit' for computer operating systems or perhaps 'The Matrix' of Western Industrial nutrition?
If people did manage to escape their carb-dependent state, they might then learn their bodies can access their own body fat stores efficiently, make glucose (Gluconeogenesis) from dietary or endogenous proteins (as required), allow their bodies to perform maintenance more effectively in a state or hormonal balance...trusting more in how we are all made, rather than the marketing message of 'how to be healthy'. This information is slowly making it to the surface of many discussions now as real results for health and performance are evident.
However, this awareness is still contentious (even among the fitness crowd) and will likely remain the realm of word of mouth and N=1 experimentation success stories for awhile longer, due to continued strong industrial food interests influencing the mass (marketing) messaging AND the propagated historical misinformation (Ancel Keyes' 'bad saturated fats' study, etc.) that is still being used to sell 'whole grains'.
Science is slowly turning the tables on the misinformation, but it will take time to undo the damage to what is now 'common knowledge'.
I suggest you spend some time reading through the debate section of the community - the concept of whether there is any advantage to a LCHF diet for the population at large - those who aren't insulin resistant, athletes, etc is something that has been discussed many times, with citations to studies, etc.
I love when we have new exuberant posters, specifically keto converts, who assume that those of us who are successful in weight loss/management, achieving health and fitness goals by eating a macro balanced diet are just "carb dependent" and deluded by mass marketing and historical misinformation.
Thanks - I have, that's why I commented what I did. (...and I'm just naturally exuberant ;-) )
Holistically, (mentally, socially, etc.) the effects of food industries that propagate engineered foods and carb-dependent messaging and creating millions of patients with poor health and obesity, who then are treated based on poor or inaccurate health information, has had a devastating effect on their collective health.
Holistic nutrition considers these as real effects to be treated.32 -
This content has been removed.
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PrimalForLife wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »PrimalForLife wrote: »mshanepace wrote: »I love it. The responses in here kill me. My typos and, potential, grammatical mistakes I'll leave in, since I'm not going to re-read this after I've written it (and yet.. I had to re-read myself.. I modified for meaning only however, corrected names and improved for meaning only... I left in the rest)... Though it wasn't a common believe the "science" of the past would bleed people. Also, a common thought in the "science" of the past, the world was flat and the Earth is the middle of existence. Hypothesis, theorems...etc... Show ME the evidence AGAINST leaky gut. The actual goal of a scientific study is to prove oneself incorrect and NOT to prove oneself to be correct. To suggest that there are NO black swans is to always be on the search for a black Swan NOT to ignore one when you find one. Let's take the information from Ancel Keyes, and group, and break down what's occurred since his hypothesis was followed. The United States of America has gone down a road of spiraling out of control health crises. Diabetes, which was barely recognized in the seventies and eighties, is out of containment, a complete household word because SO many people have it now. You've gotten vegans and vegetarians arguing "facts" about agendas while THEY'VE got agendas. Absolute fact, as the show What The Health quotes on all the funding behind the different organisations, their "experts" and "researchers" are being paid by vegan organisations. Their research IS funded by those WANTING the results they're finding. Are you kidding me!?! Lies in plain sight by omittions are still lies. Misleading everyone because you BELIEVE something is wrong doesn't make it right. The perpetual argument that there are NO black Swans, while looking at a Black Swan, is not only self deceiving but is a complete destroyer of what you all are referring to as science. I don't have to bring evidence against sugar to suggest sugar is the problem, or the level of said sugar is the problem, you've got to prove it isn't the problem. THAT'S science!!! Let's take some true science into THIS discussion. You DON'T NEED carbs to live!!! It's proven... You can't live without Fats! PERIOD!! You can't live without proteins!! PERIOD!!! But you can live on ZERO carbs!!! I'm not suggesting it's the best way to live, BUT, you can!! So, here is my suggest to anyone wanting to prove that I'm incorrect, take the scientific test and ONLY live on Carbs!! You'll DIE but give it an honest go. People HAVE and DO live on NO carb diets. Welcome to a REAL scientific test. Stop purporting to know sciences when you aren't even trying to disprove what is in front of you. I don't care of you've got a Master's or a PhD, anytime you are proving yourself right YOU'RE NOT using a scientific method! I assume I'm going to now be slammed by those of you whom BELIEVE you know better, bring it! At the end of the day, you're wrong! I truly don't care what your thoughts on this topic are or what you think of me, you're wrong. Stay blind! But, if you want to prove my statement wrong... No supplements, no fats, no proteins... Carb only diet.. Prove it! Crud, just no fats and no supplements... Proteins and carbs!!! Go!!! Prove yourselves correct, and die in the process. Because you will... I'll drop this and you can now vulture attack me.
Carb-dependency stays intact for people until one makes the effort of getting out of the vortex of being carb-dependent - which most seem reluctant to try (the messaging is pervasive to 'trust those whole grains', so it is not surprising). It is almost analogous to a 'root kit' for computer operating systems or perhaps 'The Matrix' of Western Industrial nutrition?
If people did manage to escape their carb-dependent state, they might then learn their bodies can access their own body fat stores efficiently, make glucose (Gluconeogenesis) from dietary or endogenous proteins (as required), allow their bodies to perform maintenance more effectively in a state or hormonal balance...trusting more in how we are all made, rather than the marketing message of 'how to be healthy'. This information is slowly making it to the surface of many discussions now as real results for health and performance are evident.
However, this awareness is still contentious (even among the fitness crowd) and will likely remain the realm of word of mouth and N=1 experimentation success stories for awhile longer, due to continued strong industrial food interests influencing the mass (marketing) messaging AND the propagated historical misinformation (Ancel Keyes' 'bad saturated fats' study, etc.) that is still being used to sell 'whole grains'.
Science is slowly turning the tables on the misinformation, but it will take time to undo the damage to what is now 'common knowledge'.
I suggest you spend some time reading through the debate section of the community - the concept of whether there is any advantage to a LCHF diet for the population at large - those who aren't insulin resistant, athletes, etc is something that has been discussed many times, with citations to studies, etc.
I love when we have new exuberant posters, specifically keto converts, who assume that those of us who are successful in weight loss/management, achieving health and fitness goals by eating a macro balanced diet are just "carb dependent" and deluded by mass marketing and historical misinformation.
Thanks - I have, that's why I commented what I did. (...and I'm just naturally exuberant ;-) )
Holistically, (mentally, socially, etc.) the effects of food industries that propagate engineered foods and carb-dependent messaging and creating millions of patients with poor health and obesity, who then are treated based on poor or inaccurate health information, has had a devastating effect on their collective health.
Holistic nutrition considers these as real effects to be treated.
Carb-dependent messaging? What does that mean?8 -
stanmann571 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »(I thought it was a joke.)
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_5?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=taleb+black+swan&sprefix=taleb,aps,211&crid=2VPAJ1YGX63I3
Here's a joke on the subject
A mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer are riding a train through Scotland.
The engineer looks out the window, sees a black sheep, and exclaims, "Hey! They've got black sheep in Scotland!"
The physicist looks out the window and corrects the engineer, "Strictly speaking, all we know is that there's at least one black sheep in Scotland."
The mathematician looks out the window and corrects the physicist, " Strictly speaking, all we know is that is that at least one side of one sheep is black in Scotland."
Love it!4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »(I thought it was a joke.)
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_5?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=taleb+black+swan&sprefix=taleb,aps,211&crid=2VPAJ1YGX63I3
Here's a joke on the subject
A mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer are riding a train through Scotland.
The engineer looks out the window, sees a black sheep, and exclaims, "Hey! They've got black sheep in Scotland!"
The physicist looks out the window and corrects the engineer, "Strictly speaking, all we know is that there's at least one black sheep in Scotland."
The mathematician looks out the window and corrects the physicist, " Strictly speaking, all we know is that is that at least one side of one sheep is black in Scotland."
Love it!
The philosophical Pedant chimes in "Is the sheep really in Scotland?"13 -
PrimalForLife wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »PrimalForLife wrote: »mshanepace wrote: »I love it. The responses in here kill me. My typos and, potential, grammatical mistakes I'll leave in, since I'm not going to re-read this after I've written it (and yet.. I had to re-read myself.. I modified for meaning only however, corrected names and improved for meaning only... I left in the rest)... Though it wasn't a common believe the "science" of the past would bleed people. Also, a common thought in the "science" of the past, the world was flat and the Earth is the middle of existence. Hypothesis, theorems...etc... Show ME the evidence AGAINST leaky gut. The actual goal of a scientific study is to prove oneself incorrect and NOT to prove oneself to be correct. To suggest that there are NO black swans is to always be on the search for a black Swan NOT to ignore one when you find one. Let's take the information from Ancel Keyes, and group, and break down what's occurred since his hypothesis was followed. The United States of America has gone down a road of spiraling out of control health crises. Diabetes, which was barely recognized in the seventies and eighties, is out of containment, a complete household word because SO many people have it now. You've gotten vegans and vegetarians arguing "facts" about agendas while THEY'VE got agendas. Absolute fact, as the show What The Health quotes on all the funding behind the different organisations, their "experts" and "researchers" are being paid by vegan organisations. Their research IS funded by those WANTING the results they're finding. Are you kidding me!?! Lies in plain sight by omittions are still lies. Misleading everyone because you BELIEVE something is wrong doesn't make it right. The perpetual argument that there are NO black Swans, while looking at a Black Swan, is not only self deceiving but is a complete destroyer of what you all are referring to as science. I don't have to bring evidence against sugar to suggest sugar is the problem, or the level of said sugar is the problem, you've got to prove it isn't the problem. THAT'S science!!! Let's take some true science into THIS discussion. You DON'T NEED carbs to live!!! It's proven... You can't live without Fats! PERIOD!! You can't live without proteins!! PERIOD!!! But you can live on ZERO carbs!!! I'm not suggesting it's the best way to live, BUT, you can!! So, here is my suggest to anyone wanting to prove that I'm incorrect, take the scientific test and ONLY live on Carbs!! You'll DIE but give it an honest go. People HAVE and DO live on NO carb diets. Welcome to a REAL scientific test. Stop purporting to know sciences when you aren't even trying to disprove what is in front of you. I don't care of you've got a Master's or a PhD, anytime you are proving yourself right YOU'RE NOT using a scientific method! I assume I'm going to now be slammed by those of you whom BELIEVE you know better, bring it! At the end of the day, you're wrong! I truly don't care what your thoughts on this topic are or what you think of me, you're wrong. Stay blind! But, if you want to prove my statement wrong... No supplements, no fats, no proteins... Carb only diet.. Prove it! Crud, just no fats and no supplements... Proteins and carbs!!! Go!!! Prove yourselves correct, and die in the process. Because you will... I'll drop this and you can now vulture attack me.
Carb-dependency stays intact for people until one makes the effort of getting out of the vortex of being carb-dependent - which most seem reluctant to try (the messaging is pervasive to 'trust those whole grains', so it is not surprising). It is almost analogous to a 'root kit' for computer operating systems or perhaps 'The Matrix' of Western Industrial nutrition?
If people did manage to escape their carb-dependent state, they might then learn their bodies can access their own body fat stores efficiently, make glucose (Gluconeogenesis) from dietary or endogenous proteins (as required), allow their bodies to perform maintenance more effectively in a state or hormonal balance...trusting more in how we are all made, rather than the marketing message of 'how to be healthy'. This information is slowly making it to the surface of many discussions now as real results for health and performance are evident.
However, this awareness is still contentious (even among the fitness crowd) and will likely remain the realm of word of mouth and N=1 experimentation success stories for awhile longer, due to continued strong industrial food interests influencing the mass (marketing) messaging AND the propagated historical misinformation (Ancel Keyes' 'bad saturated fats' study, etc.) that is still being used to sell 'whole grains'.
Science is slowly turning the tables on the misinformation, but it will take time to undo the damage to what is now 'common knowledge'.
I suggest you spend some time reading through the debate section of the community - the concept of whether there is any advantage to a LCHF diet for the population at large - those who aren't insulin resistant, athletes, etc is something that has been discussed many times, with citations to studies, etc.
I love when we have new exuberant posters, specifically keto converts, who assume that those of us who are successful in weight loss/management, achieving health and fitness goals by eating a macro balanced diet are just "carb dependent" and deluded by mass marketing and historical misinformation.
Thanks - I have, that's why I commented what I did. (...and I'm just naturally exuberant ;-) )
Holistically, (mentally, socially, etc.) the effects of food industries that propagate engineered foods and carb-dependent messaging and creating millions of patients with poor health and obesity, who then are treated based on poor or inaccurate health information, has had a devastating effect on their collective health.
Holistic nutrition considers these as real effects to be treated.
Where does personal accountability factor into your doomsday scenario?
What is "carb dependency"?
What poor/inaccurate health information are you referring to?
What are specific examples of "holistic nutrition" that you feel address these widespread concerns and would improve the collective health of society?8 -
Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
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danigirl1011 wrote: »Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
And here comes the 'evil corporations are evil' conspiracy theories, yet again... sigh.12 -
food is our first medicine.7
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danigirl1011 wrote: »Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
I think it is tremendously amusing that people think that proponents of holistic medicine, supplements, naturopathy, etc are not out to make a profit, that they are completely altruistic in their endeavors yet blame the food industry and big pharma for duping the public and keeping us fat, sick and tired....
20 -
WinoGelato wrote: »danigirl1011 wrote: »Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
I think it is tremendously amusing that people think that proponents of holistic medicine, supplements, naturopathy, etc are not out to make a profit, that they are completely altruistic in their endeavors yet blame the food industry and big pharma for duping the public and keeping us fat, sick and tired....
I used to, to my shame, after some bad experiences with doctors shrugging their shoulders and not being of much help go in for holistic type things. I was really down on the medical community there for a while and was big on diet and supplements working their magic on me.
Funny, I was fatter and sicker than ever for doing that. I also spent a boatload on those supplements.
I finally grew a spine, changed doctors, advocated for myself and got treatment and my life has done a 180 because of conventional medicine.
18 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
And here comes the 'evil corporations are evil' conspiracy theories, yet again... sigh.
And the "there's no proof for any of the crap I'm saying because The Man (c) is covering it up!!!" copout.13 -
Regarding this supposed "carb dependency".
I'll happily be so.
Because I can tell you right now that I feel absolutely terrible if my diet is not full of vegetables. There are times that I run low on a supply between trips to the grocery store and I can feel my energy levels drop when that happens.
So if preferring to eat nutrient dense veggies makes me carb-dependent? Sign me up. I'll be first in line. And frankly, looking askance at anyone who would ignore the studies supporting the importance of fruit and vegetable intake.
Editing to add that I'm very active to keep my joints from seizing up due to psoriatic arthritis. Carbohydrates fuel a decidedly non-sedentary lifestyle. These carbs include veggies, fruits, tubers, beans, and whole grains. Again, I'm happily dependent on such nutritious foods.
The laughable thing to me is that people who argue for low carb/keto diets never seem to consider that people who like carbs might enjoy balanced nutritious ones. To them, we're always eating only Fritos and Pop Tarts with abandon.13 -
It's projection. They're low carb because they themselves have problems with delicious, carb-heavy, high calorie foods, so everyone must be.10
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Hi, Not sure if the OP is even reading this anymore.
I see you are having a crisis of faith during class where you are learning things and trying to balance what you are learning with what you have learned/observed in the world.
After the class is over, you will be expected to apply what you have learned in the class. This may be difficult if you do not believe in the what is being taught.
I had not heard of Leaky Gut Syndrome and looked it up on the Internet and was eventually guided to a Wikipedia page listing of pseudoscientific beliefs and that page included Leaky Gut Syndrome, among others that I knew about, like ear-candling, and others that I thought were real, like Meyers-Briggs Personality Types (INTJ here).
What is your motivation for taking the class? Maybe there is another class you can take if you want to help people become healthy through diet choices.
Good Luck!1 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
Maybe try to loosen the tinfoil hat just a little bit, might give you a little more clarity.6 -
stanmann571 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »(I thought it was a joke.)
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_5?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=taleb+black+swan&sprefix=taleb,aps,211&crid=2VPAJ1YGX63I3
Here's a joke on the subject
A mathematician, a physicist, and an engineer are riding a train through Scotland.
The engineer looks out the window, sees a black sheep, and exclaims, "Hey! They've got black sheep in Scotland!"
The physicist looks out the window and corrects the engineer, "Strictly speaking, all we know is that there's at least one black sheep in Scotland."
The mathematician looks out the window and corrects the physicist, " Strictly speaking, all we know is that is that at least one side of one sheep is black in Scotland."
Love it!
The philosophical Pedant chimes in "Is the sheep really in Scotland?"
If the sheep is black, it cannot be a true Scottish sheep.5 -
I find the most hilarious part of the Big Pharma/Food Industry conspiracy theories is the way it completely ignores how utterly impossible it would be for that many people to be toeing the line and keeping it all hush hush. If ANY corporation or body truly had that much power and control over the WHOLE WORLD do you REALLY think they'd be using it to keep people fat, sick and tired? Amazing that they have such incredible power, but such modest ambitions.14
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PrimalForLife wrote: »Carb-dependency stays intact for people until one makes the effort of getting out of the vortex of being carb-dependent - which most seem reluctant to try (the messaging is pervasive to 'trust those whole grains', so it is not surprising). It is almost analogous to a 'root kit' for computer operating systems or perhaps 'The Matrix' of Western Industrial nutrition?
What on earth is carb-dependency? Not being on a keto diet?
No traditional human diet seems to be keto, for the record. A very few are extremely low carb due to environment and human ability to adapt to almost anything, and in those cases people seem to adapt by not going into ketosis at carb levels others would. Most traditional human diets aren't especially low carb, and there is no evidence that the human body does being low carb. I think low carb can be a reasonable and successful way of eating for SOME in a society like ours, where the extreme availability of food can be a problem for many people, but that doesn't mean it is somehow better for health (IMO it can be healthy or not, like many other ways of eating).If people did manage to escape their carb-dependent state, they might then learn their bodies can access their own body fat stores efficiently
Of course our bodies can access our own fat stores efficiently. The big lie is that you need to be low carb for that to happen.make glucose (Gluconeogenesis) from dietary or endogenous proteins (as required)
Yes, we can do that too, because glucose is so significant for us that we need a backup plan for if it's not available. Not at all sure why this is supposed to mean we are better off relying on such means for our glucose needs rather than consuming carbs.allow their bodies to perform maintenance more effectively in a state or hormonal balance...trusting more in how we are all made, rather than the marketing message of 'how to be healthy'.
Not clear what you are getting at here.
Seems to me that you are falling for a certain marketing message indeed!
But if the argument is that carbs are not healthy, that's absurd. Many of the most nutrient dense foods are mostly carbs.12 -
PrimalForLife wrote: »Holistically, (mentally, socially, etc.) the effects of food industries that propagate engineered foods and carb-dependent messaging and creating millions of patients with poor health and obesity, who then are treated based on poor or inaccurate health information, has had a devastating effect on their collective health.
Most "food industry" foods (even if we ignore the meat and dairy industries and focus on ultra processed foods) are a mix of fat and carbs, primarily, and only a particular subset of carbs. Calling eating these "carb dependency" is ridiculous, as is ignoring the many other foods (whole foods in many cases) that are predominantly carbs.
Also, the "food industry" (and processing) has, among other things made lots of healthy foods more available to many people (vegetables and fruits throughout the year -- I realize you might not approve of those -- fish, smoked and frozen, so on). The problem for us now is that this goes along with vast choice and availability and thus excess in many cases. That I overeat is more related to the huge amount of amazing cheeses I can go to a local cheese monger (or even just WF) and buy, or that I can experiment with and try types of cuisine my grandparents never experienced (Ethiopian, Indian, Vietnamese, Korean, Georgian (country of), etc.) even with just a phone call (and in any macro mix I want, often), as well as the fact that it's easy to be entirely sedentary if one wants and food is often available without you even having to do anything.4 -
I often wonder how the food-industrial-transportation network manages to keep on trend. How can it possibly respond quickly enough, from farmer to table, when fads flip? Does Farmer Joe switch from cabbage to Kale? Who tells him?2
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Does it matter? Do what works for you.
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danigirl1011 wrote: »Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
Can't cover up studies that were never done. So - as usual - complete and utter horse manure.7 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »Totally agree with you. And people who have not researched just think you're crazy when you talk about this stuff. Or demand "scientific proof" but really where are the studies? They are covered up by the food industry and big pharma, because they dont' want the public knowing it. They want everyone overweight, sick and tired. Keep up with your schooling. At least you know what's up!
-50 points for not including 'WAKE UP SHEEPLE'17 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »I find the most hilarious part of the Big Pharma/Food Industry conspiracy theories is the way it completely ignores how utterly impossible it would be for that many people to be toeing the line and keeping it all hush hush. If ANY corporation or body truly had that much power and control over the WHOLE WORLD do you REALLY think they'd be using it to keep people fat, sick and tired? Amazing that they have such incredible power, but such modest ambitions.
Monsanto has hit men.7
This discussion has been closed.
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