Calorie count or Keto?

mcafton · December 2017

I started out here counting calories, but stalled out. I exercise 3 or 4 days a week and in the summer bike a lot. I probably ride between 60 and 100 miles a week. I had lost around 20 pounds, then stalled. I hadn't been counting my calories as well and would really take advantage of the 1000 or so calorie burn bike rides as an excuse to eat more. I then decided to cut carbs way back, and have lost a few pounds, but not what I was expecting. Some people on the keto diets seem to lose weight so quickly. My carbs are way down, but I'm wondering if I'm eating too many calories. I also worry about cholesterol going up from long term fatty diet. I'm thinking about going back to calorie counting and being more strict. Just wondering what some of you think of as the pros and cons of calories vs keto. If I cheat with calorie counting that's a bad day, but if I cheat on the low carb diet it takes a week or so to get back to where I was and recoup.

maithileesj · December 2017

I've only just started learning about keto and it seems fascinating! Also, the results that I see from people who've adopted it for the long term seem to say that all that I've known about a 'healthy' diet so far has been the wrong side up! I'm going to give Keto a serious try over the next couple of months so will have more to share then.

As of now, however, it seems to me that Keto is more about managing macros once a reasonable 'low-carb' limit is set rather than just counting calories. So, depending on the overall goal, whether weight-loss or weight-gain or muscle-gain, etc., one has to identify the appropriate number of calories for one's body-type (ecto/ meso/ endo) and then work out the macros backwards from that number. If you stick to the macros and the calorie goal, then you should get closer to the goal faster than any other diet (if you believe the keto-ers).

livingleanlivingclean · December 2017

However you eat, if you have a weight loss goal you need to be in a calorie deficit. If you can't achieve that intuitively, you need to log and track.

You probably stalled due to inaccurate logging, and you may have been overestimating calorie burns from exercise.

People on keto/low carb lose weight quickly initially as they lose water weight with the reduction of carbs. Fat loss happens at the same rate.

To achieve your goals, I would start to log and track accurately. Account for everything - weigh solids, measure liquids. Use accurate database entries. If you want to eat lower carb, do that, but it's not necessary for weight loss.

mcafton · December 2017

livingleanlivingclean wrote: »

However you eat, if you have a weight loss goal you need to be in a calorie deficit. If you can't achieve that intuitively, you need to log and track.

You probably stalled due to inaccurate logging, and you may have been overestimating calorie burns from exercise.

People on keto/low carb lose weight quickly initially as they lose water weight with the reduction of carbs. Fat loss happens at the same rate.

To achieve your goals, I would start to log and track accurately. Account for everything - weigh solids, measure liquids. Use accurate database entries. If you want to eat lower carb, do that, but it's not necessary for weight loss.

Thanks. I was doing well counting calories, then kind of slacked off. of course, that's when I stalled out. was maintaining, but not losing weight. I'm sure some muscle gain accounts for it as well, but I definitely need to get back to recording and tracking my calories.

mcafton · December 2017

livingleanlivingclean wrote: »

However you eat, if you have a weight loss goal you need to be in a calorie deficit. If you can't achieve that intuitively, you need to log and track.

You probably stalled due to inaccurate logging, and you may have been overestimating calorie burns from exercise.

People on keto/low carb lose weight quickly initially as they lose water weight with the reduction of carbs. Fat loss happens at the same rate.

To achieve your goals, I would start to log and track accurately. Account for everything - weigh solids, measure liquids. Use accurate database entries. If you want to eat lower carb, do that, but it's not necessary for weight loss.

Thanks. Hope it goes well for you. I am learning that there is definitely more to it than just cutting carbs. I will look more into that.

TavistockToad · December 2017

mcafton wrote: »

I started out here counting calories, but stalled out. I exercise 3 or 4 days a week and in the summer bike a lot. I probably ride between 60 and 100 miles a week. I had lost around 20 pounds, then stalled. I hadn't been counting my calories as well and would really take advantage of the 1000 or so calorie burn bike rides as an excuse to eat more. I then decided to cut carbs way back, and have lost a few pounds, but not what I was expecting. Some people on the keto diets seem to lose weight so quickly. My carbs are way down, but I'm wondering if I'm eating too many calories. I also worry about cholesterol going up from long term fatty diet. I'm thinking about going back to calorie counting and being more strict. Just wondering what some of you think of as the pros and cons of calories vs keto. If I cheat with calorie counting that's a bad day, but if I cheat on the low carb diet it takes a week or so to get back to where I was and recoup.

You should calorie count even if you do keto... weight loss is about your calorie deficit.

lemurcat12 · December 2017

It's not calorie counting or keto. Keto works because it helps some people keep calories down. Some find it happens even if they don't count and consciously limit calories, but many count calories while doing keto (indeed, since you are tracking carbs anyway and so need to log for that, might as well count calories too).

Lizakabibbis · December 2017

I am on a KETO diet but I also pay attention to my calories. You have to do both. For *me* Keto works because I'm eating foods that keep me satisfied - so I'm not tempted by empty calories. On average I eat between 1200-1500 a day. I also exercise every day.

erickirb · December 2017

If you like to ride distance rides Keto may not be for you. a keto diet has been shown to lower athletic performance. If you want to continue riding distances of any significance, you will be much better served by a diet that is relatively high in carbs.

edlanglais5 · December 2017

I consider Keri a lifestyle diet. I say that meaning that if you want to lose, eat in a deficit while in it. While I am not on this diet, my trainer is. He makes sure he consumed a certain amount of calories each day.

sijomial · December 2017

Calorie deficit is what will enable you to lose weight, would seem odd not to count what really matters.
Of course if following the food choices in a keto diet allows you to naturally achieve a sustainable calorie deficit then counting wouldn't be necessary but would probably remain useful if only to keep an eye on your chosen macro targets.

As mentioned above keto is not optimal for performance for exercise, you have to work harder for the same power output. You also become carb impaired as you become more fat adapted through your diet. If your goal is simply to complete a ride then it's not really such a big issue.
You might be interested in the monthly cycling challenge thread BTW:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10620523/december-2017-biking-cycling-bicycling-challenge/p1

Food preferences make a huge difference to making a diet sustainable and that's very personal. Fat isn't at all satiating to me although many people find that it is (recently my M-I-L gave me a 2,500 cal pack of cashew nuts - I could polish that off in one go no problem at all....). 2,500 cals of starchy carbs would be far more difficult for me but YMMV.

It's great you have managed to maintain despite "slacking off" so that's a real positive.

mcafton · December 2017

erickirb wrote: »

If you like to ride distance rides Keto may not be for you. a keto diet has been shown to lower athletic performance. If you want to continue riding distances of any significance, you will be much better served by a diet that is relatively high in carbs.

Thanks for the advice. I've noticed a definite decrease in endurance on the stationary bike the last several weeks. it's cold here so I haven't been riding outside. My cardio isn't as good especially the first several minutes and my legs feel more cramped and gassed.

ketofire51 · December 2017

Read "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung on how weight gain and loss is driven by the hormone insulin, NOT thermogenically by calories. The keto way of eating is about keeping insulin under control so it is the total carbs consumed along with just moderate protein and 65%-80% total daily calories from fat that drives the bodies ability to heal maladies and lose weight. Most people who eat keto stay near their TDEE as part of their eating plan.

janejellyroll · December 2017

manleyr14 wrote: »

Read "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung on how weight gain and loss is driven by the hormone insulin, NOT thermogenically by calories. The keto way of eating is about keeping insulin under control so it is the total carbs consumed along with just moderate protein and 65%-80% total daily calories from fat that drives the bodies ability to heal maladies and lose weight. Most people who eat keto stay near their TDEE as part of their eating plan.

If weight gain and loss isn't determined by calories, how do you explain people who lose weight by controlling calories without doing anything to keep their "insulin under control"?

erickirb · December 2017

manleyr14 wrote: »

Read "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung on how weight gain and loss is driven by the hormone insulin, NOT thermogenically by calories. The keto way of eating is about keeping insulin under control so it is the total carbs consumed along with just moderate protein and 65%-80% total daily calories from fat that drives the bodies ability to heal maladies and lose weight. Most people who eat keto stay near their TDEE as part of their eating plan.

That insulin driving weight gain has been debunked over and over again. For weight loss or gain, calories are king, if you are focusing on the hormones you are majoring in the minors.

ketofire51 · December 2017

Read the book before you judge.

GottaBurnEmAll · December 2017

I read the study that falsified the insulin theory of obesity.

I don't need to read the book.

Fung is wrong.

ZoneFive · December 2017

maithileesj wrote: »

I've only just started learning about keto and it seems fascinating! Also, the results that I see from people who've adopted it for the long term seem to say that all that I've known about a 'healthy' diet so far has been the wrong side up! I'm going to give Keto a serious try over the next couple of months so will have more to share then.

As of now, however, it seems to me that Keto is more about managing macros once a reasonable 'low-carb' limit is set rather than just counting calories. So, depending on the overall goal, whether weight-loss or weight-gain or muscle-gain, etc., one has to identify the appropriate number of calories for one's body-type (ecto/ meso/ endo) and then work out the macros backwards from that number. If you stick to the macros and the calorie goal, then you should get closer to the goal faster than any other diet (if you believe the keto-ers).

"Body type" has no effect on calories or macros. Height, age, gender, activity level, and any medical issues/conditions will have an effect.

russelljam08 · December 2017

manleyr14 wrote: »

Read "The Obesity Code" by Dr. Jason Fung on how weight gain and loss is driven by the hormone insulin, NOT thermogenically by calories. The keto way of eating is about keeping insulin under control so it is the total carbs consumed along with just moderate protein and 65%-80% total daily calories from fat that drives the bodies ability to heal maladies and lose weight. Most people who eat keto stay near their TDEE as part of their eating plan.

Explain how insulin can create and destroy energy. The government would like to know.

And if keto is so magic so healthy explain Jimmy Moore and his obese followers?

I'll leave this from a PhD in Physiology---you know an ACTUAL expert in metabolism, not a person with letters in front of their name from an unrelated field.

poochie_loo · December 2017

You tube Dr Eric Berg. He explains keto very well.

Calorie count or Keto?

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