Why I left Weight Watchers new "Freestyle" Program
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Natalianime wrote: »I did weight watcher back when they were on points plus. When the only free things were fruits and veg. I left once they moved to smart points because it seemed like the punishment for carbs was kind of drastic. Foods I used to eat for 4 points suddenly became 11. It was too much of an adjustment to get used to.
I think they are moving more toward general better eating tools for people who have very poor diets. I get what they're doing and it has it's place but won't work for most.
If you eat nothing but takeout, pizza, wings and soda and decide to join weightwatchers you likely will lose weight and learn to eat better. Regardless of the amount of free food you eat. It's no longer a place for people looking to lose 5-20 pounds. It's a learning tool, meant to be used for losing 50+ pounds.
If you're someone who already eats all the foods regularly on their new list you're already past the point of needing their guidance.
I agree about the carbs issue. I left after struggling with the change to smart points. As a vegetarian I felt that my lifestyle was penalised when compared to someone that ate meat and fish.3 -
I see why would they make the change. If you like counting - calorie counting is the easiest, most flexible with apps as MFP accessible for free. Other methods are left trying to cater for people that want to do as little counting as possible.
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I left Weight Watchers 2 years ago and have since lost almost 90 pounds. Best thing I did was working on a program that works for me. The constant changes and trying to fit my square peg in their round hole wasn't working for me. Welcome back to MFP.11
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A co-worker of mine does weight watchers, she started last year and has been pretty successful, but she didn't have that much to lose. We compared notes btw MFP and WW a few months ago and I think that was around the time WW was switching over to the freestyle program as she told me bananas used to be 1 point, now they're 0 because people were choosing an unhealthier option which was also 1 point (forgot what it was). The next time we get a lunch together I should ask her what she thinks of the freestyle program, if she likes it or not. She'll probably stick with it tho b/c she chose WW for the accountability.2
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HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »I was more or less being sarcastic... IMO once chicken and everything else got added to the 0 point list, it seems rather pointless of a program now.
I see what you did there LOL
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Bananas have been zero for a looong time and continue to be on Freestyle. I used WW for years and finally decided it wasn't right for me. I am more accountable when I count calories instead of using a mysterious point formula to track my intake. Weight loss is calories in, calories out, and I've come to the realization that there are no magic weight loss foods. In real life treats aren't double the calories, they are JUST CALORIES. Using the healthy guidelines provided here helps me stay on track and the formula never changes. Best to you in 2018!11
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Bananas have been zero for a looong time and continue to be on Freestyle. I used WW for years and finally decided it wasn't right for me. I am more accountable when I count calories instead of using a mysterious point formula to track my intake. Weight loss is calories in, calories out, and I've come to the realization that there are no magic weight loss foods. In real life treats aren't double the calories, they are JUST CALORIES. Using the healthy guidelines provided here helps me stay on track and the formula never changes. Best to you in 2018!
yeah and most bananas are 80-100 calories so if you were to eat say 3 theres 240-300 calories alone. making it zero points and saying those foods are free many will think they can eat as much of those foods as they want and not gain.4 -
Great discussion since I was on WW recently and wondered about this new program. Thanks!0
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Great discussion and just what I needed to read. I have been successful on WW for two years and am down to the final 10 (now13 thanks to Freestyle). I think it is the stress of losing 7 points a day. My brain cannot wrap around the fact, "but you get more zero point food" as I am a habit eater. By this I mean, the foods I was losing on, need the other 7 points. I even took advantage of their live chat. Nice try, but giving it time and being patient and double checking my tracking....oh no you don't, you don't shove this on me. I just bought a food journal and after reading all of this input, I am going to use and win with MFP. And a new pedometer(just a good old fashioned basic one because if I leave it in my pocket and wash it, I won't shed as many tears or bucks). Thanks everyone, thank you.10
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I just left Weight Watchers too! I wanted to try it but it just doesn't work for me. My biggest gripes with WW are the following:
1. It's not flexible enough for my lifestyle. I usually eat dinner with my family, regardless of what they may be having. They aren't always the healthiest, but I do try to make better choices. As long as I stay under my calorie goal, I feel I have succeeded for the day. WW was KILLING me with points for things I could easily fit into my calorie goal. For example, I had a cup of spaghetti and sausage the other day, logging in at 650 calories. Weight watchers gave me 20 points for the meal! I only get 25 per day.
2. I don't necessarily understand the logic on certain point values. I know the points are designed to "reward you" for eating foods low in fat/high in protein, but sometimes it just doesn't make sense. A medium avocado has 230 calories, but 11 points. A snickers bar has 250 calories but 8 points. I know avocados are high in fat, but you'd think an avocado is a better snack than a snickers bar.
3. Unlimited fruit is a dangerous slope. I know that many of the foods on the zero point list are healthy and fine to eat, but ANYTHING should be eating in moderation. Are you telling me that if I ate 12 bananas a day all for zero points and then ate my regular amount of points (25) I'd lose weight? I don't think so.
I prefer MFP and calorie counting. I don't think it's more tedious than counting points, and for me it just works. I would never bash anyone choosing WW though.20 -
Wait wait wait. I still think ww is insane for all the new zero point foods but are they still at least doing the thing where you only get to eat 5 zero point foods but then have to count any other zero point foods as points?4
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shannonprovenzano2812 wrote: »I just left Weight Watchers too! I wanted to try it but it just doesn't work for me. My biggest gripes with WW are the following:
1. It's not flexible enough for my lifestyle. I usually eat dinner with my family, regardless of what they may be having. They aren't always the healthiest, but I do try to make better choices. As long as I stay under my calorie goal, I feel I have succeeded for the day. WW was KILLING me with points for things I could easily fit into my calorie goal. For example, I had a cup of spaghetti and sausage the other day, logging in at 650 calories. Weight watchers gave me 20 points for the meal! I only get 25 per day.
2. I don't necessarily understand the logic on certain point values. I know the points are designed to "reward you" for eating foods low in fat/high in protein, but sometimes it just doesn't make sense. A medium avocado has 230 calories, but 11 points. A snickers bar has 250 calories but 8 points. I know avocados are high in fat, but you'd think an avocado is a better snack than a snickers bar.
3. Unlimited fruit is a dangerous slope. I know that many of the foods on the zero point list are healthy and fine to eat, but ANYTHING should be eating in moderation. Are you telling me that if I ate 12 bananas a day all for zero points and then ate my regular amount of points (25) I'd lose weight? I don't think so.
I prefer MFP and calorie counting. I don't think it's more tedious than counting points, and for me it just works. I would never bash anyone choosing WW though.
This is the reason I left WW for MFP. When I discovered MFP, I did both WW and MFP for 2 weeks. And I found I was undereating in WW. I was not one to eat many of the free fruits and veggies. And WW points really penalize you for certain types of foods. I lost just fine with MFP, and never looked back.
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Wait wait wait. I still think ww is insane for all the new zero point foods but are they still at least doing the thing where you only get to eat 5 zero point foods but then have to count any other zero point foods as points?
I asked this same type of questions but I haven't gotten an answer. There has to be some kind of guideline, right? But I can't see the program. It wants me to sign up. Nope, not that interested in an answer
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Wait wait wait. I still think ww is insane for all the new zero point foods but are they still at least doing the thing where you only get to eat 5 zero point foods but then have to count any other zero point foods as points?
No, you can eat as many free foods as you want. They say you don’t even need to weigh or measure them.
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sadiepie10 wrote: »Wait wait wait. I still think ww is insane for all the new zero point foods but are they still at least doing the thing where you only get to eat 5 zero point foods but then have to count any other zero point foods as points?
No, you can eat as many free foods as you want. They say you don’t even need to weigh or measure them.
Ok, still completely insane then. 8 -
sadiepie10 wrote: »Wait wait wait. I still think ww is insane for all the new zero point foods but are they still at least doing the thing where you only get to eat 5 zero point foods but then have to count any other zero point foods as points?
No, you can eat as many free foods as you want. They say you don’t even need to weigh or measure them.
Just because "they" say you don't have to doesn't mean you don't have to. I would continue to weigh and measure because portion control.
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I started on January 1st using MFP, keeping between 1200 and 1400 calories. I'm over 200 lbs and only 5'5". I lost 3 lbs by Friday, January 5th.
Then, I let myself get talked into starting WW Freestyle and attended a meeting last Saturday, January 6th (my insurance plan covers part of the fee, which made it even more attractive to try). Since last Saturday, I have not been gorging on any of the zero point foods, but I've not been tracking portions, etc. either. I don't eat the daily points or the weekly points, have cut out all alcohol and "cheesy poos" (snack type, processed crap), and have upped my exercise.
Well, I stepped on the scale this morning and I've gained a pound. I am being honest here - nothing changed with respect to my food choices (I'm a huge veggie, chicken/fish eater). The only change was that I stopped tracking my portions (weighing my food, measuring cups, etc.) and stopped counting calories. That's it.
I'm giving WW one more week (so I don't waste my $$ for this month entirely). If I don't drop weight (and definitely if I gain), I'm quitting. And I'll be squawking all over social media about it, too. And something I don't just suspect but know is that there really is no such thing as zero point foods (I mean, come on, salmon???). "Calories in vs. Calories out" is the formula that has worked for me in the past.
I will come back on this thread and post again next Friday to give an update. If I've lost weight on WW, I'll shut up and keep going with their plan. If not, it's back to MFP I go!5 -
Wait wait wait. I still think ww is insane for all the new zero point foods but are they still at least doing the thing where you only get to eat 5 zero point foods but then have to count any other zero point foods as points?
This was a thing that made sense to me. Yes, they had "zero point" fruit and veg, but you only got 5. I'm sure some people ignored that... but it was supposed to be 5. It was assumed that you would have 5 servings, so your points were lower (or rather your calculated calories were lower). This was on Points Plus. I did so freaking well on that program. Then Smartpoints came out and I completely stopped losing weight and just became ANGRY that I could no longer have a few jellybeans. So I quit.
I haven't had massive success just using MFP alone because I need a little more coaching than that. But what I'm doing now is working, which makes me so furiously happy. Which is counting calories & macros, with a coach (because that's what works for me, YMMV).3 -
Opinions about WW is about as numerous as there are people. You gotta pick the tool that fits you and work it.
I’m a Weight Watcher member of 14 years. Got to goal losing 120 lbs. with WW. Program changed 3-4 times in those years...each program worked if you work it right. The Zero foods are “to satisfaction” so that’s important to remember and a certain amount of them are factored. I had no problem with it and it worked. I really like Freestyle right now BUT am counting calories for another reason at the moment as I’m watching some other things like sodium, calcium, etc...and I like to change the way I track but the group meetings and accountability and the freedom to NOT think overly much about certain foods is nice.
To each their own. I decided as a morbidly obese woman that I needed a tool with meetings and am glad I chose that route as it saved my life...literally.
But I also dig MFP for other reasons.
No matter which tool we choose...as long as we really use it, it will work.
My opinion for what it’s worth. I realize I may be “outnumbered” here but honestly...this 120 lb. loss speaks volumes. Not so much about WW but about when we choose to work a tool...and work it well.
Signed: Weight Watcher fan who digs MFP as well.18 -
Opinions about WW is about as numerous as there are people. You gotta pick the tool that fits you and work it.
I’m a Weight Watcher member of 14 years. Got to goal losing 120 lbs. with WW. Program changed 3-4 times in those years...each program worked if you work it right. The Zero foods are “to satisfaction” so that’s important to remember and a certain amount of them are factored. I had no problem with it and it worked. I really like Freestyle right now BUT am counting calories for another reason at the moment as I’m watching some other things like sodium, calcium, etc...and I like to change the way I track but the group meetings and accountability and the freedom to NOT think overly much about certain foods is nice.
To each their own. I decided as a morbidly obese woman that I needed a tool with meetings and am glad I chose that route as it saved my life...literally.
But I also dig MFP for other reasons.
No matter which tool we choose...as long as we really use it, it will work.
My opinion for what it’s worth. I realize I may be “outnumbered” here but honestly...this 120 lb. loss speaks volumes. Not so much about WW but about when we choose to work a tool...and work it well.
Signed: Weight Watcher fan who digs MFP as well.
My sentiments exactly. Lessons I've learned on WW,which led me to lose 70 lbs and keep it off, I still use while applying the knowledge I've learned here. I've found a happy middle ground and wish people would respect that.8 -
Maybe I am in the minority, but I don't see what all of the fuss is about. They have likely tested this program with a large sample of people and it was likely proven to be more effective in their experiment vs. the existing programs.
Will it work for everyone? NO! All it needs to do is work for a significantly higher percentage of people than the previous program. WW seems to have an experimentation culture as an organization and they have likely already tested this new program and found that it outperforms the old one.
No idea what the fuss is about.8 -
Live_life_well wrote: »Maybe I am in the minority, but I don't see what all of the fuss is about. They have likely tested this program with a large sample of people and it was likely proven to be more effective in their experiment vs. the existing programs.
Will it work for everyone? NO! All it needs to do is work for a significantly higher percentage of people than the previous program. WW seems to have an experimentation culture as an organization and they have likely already tested this new program and found that it outperforms the old one.
No idea what the fuss is about.
@Live_life_well Weight Watchers tested Freestyle on about 150 coaches, members and leaders out of 1.5M+ members. The Freestyle program was not tested on a large sample of people.
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@Live_life_well Weight Watchers tested Freestyle on about 150 coaches, members and leaders out of 1.5M+ members. The Freestyle program was not tested on a large sample of people.
I stand corrected. Not sure why you would ever change your entire organizational's program based on a 150 people sample.
Was their decision based on another similar external study? Just have a hard time wrapping my head around why a company would make such a drastic decision without solid factual support.1 -
Live_life_well wrote: »@Live_life_well Weight Watchers tested Freestyle on about 150 coaches, members and leaders out of 1.5M+ members. The Freestyle program was not tested on a large sample of people.
I stand corrected. Not sure why you would ever change your entire organizational's program based on a 150 people sample.
Was their decision based on another similar external study? Just have a hard time wrapping my head around why a company would make such a drastic decision without solid factual support.
Money/profit...they probably needed to get the program quickly rolled out in order to gain new members that make new year resolutions.6 -
Opinions about WW is about as numerous as there are people. You gotta pick the tool that fits you and work it.
I’m a Weight Watcher member of 14 years. Got to goal losing 120 lbs. with WW. Program changed 3-4 times in those years...each program worked if you work it right. The Zero foods are “to satisfaction” so that’s important to remember and a certain amount of them are factored. I had no problem with it and it worked. I really like Freestyle right now BUT am counting calories for another reason at the moment as I’m watching some other things like sodium, calcium, etc...and I like to change the way I track but the group meetings and accountability and the freedom to NOT think overly much about certain foods is nice.
To each their own. I decided as a morbidly obese woman that I needed a tool with meetings and am glad I chose that route as it saved my life...literally.
But I also dig MFP for other reasons.
No matter which tool we choose...as long as we really use it, it will work.
My opinion for what it’s worth. I realize I may be “outnumbered” here but honestly...this 120 lb. loss speaks volumes. Not so much about WW but about when we choose to work a tool...and work it well.
Signed: Weight Watcher fan who digs MFP as well.
Kudos to you on your successful weight loss and maintenance! Yes, 120 pounds lost is more than enough proof that you worked WW!
You are spot on...WW and MFP are tools to be “worked”! I have been using MFP for over 3 years (53 pounds down) and recently joined WW to get things moving after a long stagnation! I felt I needed something different, and I am loving the WW Connect community for the wealth of knowledge, inspiration, and support. I use MFP to track for the same reasons you mentioned because although I do WW simply filling, calories and macros are important to my success and need for control.
Again, congrats to you....keep on keeping on!
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Here is the press release stating it was tested on 152 participants for 6 months. Keep in mind that Weight Watchers has 1.5M+ members. That is a very very small percent of the membership population.
http://www.weightwatchersinternational.com/file/Index?KeyFile=3913231847 -
Here is the press release stating it was tested on 152 participants for 6 months. Keep in mind that Weight Watchers has 1.5M+ members. That is a very very small percent of the membership population.
http://www.weightwatchersinternational.com/file/Index?KeyFile=391323184
So many things about this study worry me. I have to assume that the 152 people knew that they were part of a "study". To not believe that they would then be on their BEST behaviour is foolish.
This study can't really be used as a good proxy for the impact that this change will have on the membership. I sure hope I am wrong but this one is a coin toss.
Lol btw, all my fav foods are free. May be a good excuse to eat everything I want and claim that it is FREE. I could eat eggs all day every day.5 -
They are advertising the new program on TV here. Their motto is :
Less Tracking, More living
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I am part of the WW at Work program where my job pays my fees so I'm going to go ahead and stay on WW but continue to track my points here on MFP. I have noticed in the 4 weeks since the Freestyle change, my calories went up from 1200 or so a day to 1600 a day. Had I not been tracking in BOTH apps, I would not have known this.
In my opinion this is why WW is going to lose membership. Many are not losing and those that are have just started and it won't take long for them to stall out.
They did do a 6 month trial study and said people were successful. I find it hard to believe they didn't realize some would overeat 0 point foods. Were there two control groups with those 152 participants? One doing the old and the other on Freestyle? May I see the data from each? I'm a mathematician, I doubt I'll ever get to see the data but I bet those who knew they were doing a new program embraced it and did well so they rolled it out to everyone not realizing how some of us overeat pineapple and bananas. (beans are very high in calories too)
Thanks original poster for starting this thread. I now know my frustrations are not without warrant.5 -
There is a petition to bring back Beyond the Scale. Give members a choice of the program that works for them either Freestyle or Beyond the Scale Smartpoints.
https://www.change.org/p/weight-watchers-to-have-weight-watchers-allow-it-s-members-to-choose-smartpoints-if-they-want?utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=link&recruiter=8499986678
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