How useful are the massage chairs at Planet Fitness?
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Packerjohn wrote: »I've read in some locations, the homeless will buy the $10 membership for the overnight warmth, showers and occasional food.
How many homeless have a bank account to sign up for the automatic payments? Sounds like an urban myth.1 -
MarkusDarwath wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »I've read in some locations, the homeless will buy the $10 membership for the overnight warmth, showers and occasional food.
How many homeless have a bank account to sign up for the automatic payments? Sounds like an urban myth.
Plenty of homeless people have bank accounts. Most of them weren't always homeless. It's not like you need a minimum income or fixed address to keep one once it's open. Not really a big effort to wander into a branch now and again and pop $10 into the account when you've got it, especially for regular showers, warm and food. They're homeless, not useless.10 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »MarkusDarwath wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »I've read in some locations, the homeless will buy the $10 membership for the overnight warmth, showers and occasional food.
How many homeless have a bank account to sign up for the automatic payments? Sounds like an urban myth.
Plenty of homeless people have bank accounts. Most of them weren't always homeless. It's not like you need a minimum income or fixed address to keep one once it's open. Not really a big effort to wander into a branch now and again and pop $10 into the account when you've got it, especially for regular showers, warm and food. They're homeless, not useless.
Exactly - well said! Here in the SF bay area many homeless people live in their cars, have minimum wage jobs and salaries to put into their bank accounts. They're homeless because the housing costs here are beyond the reach of many who work as hard as anyone else earning a living wage. It's not a stretch to consider that some may find a cheap gym membership a reasonable way to have access to showers and other useful amenities.3 -
you know when you go your whole life never hearing about something...and suddenly its everywhere? Lol read this thread yesterday and today the cashier at the dollar store was loudly boastign about her gym routine being the tanning beds and massage chairs at planet fitness. Aparently she broke her foot so they help? No idea my point was lol its all over now -.-3
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clicketykeys wrote: »And that is a very good point. I would have to agree that not every single piece of equipment in the gym must necessarily be geared toward fitness. (This is one reason why I value discussions like this. They can force people, myself included, to rethink or refine their opinions.)
I don't like the way that PF tries to sell exercise as something that's meant to be low-effort. I certainly don't like the way they recommend chillaxing in a massage chair as a workout (see the graphic that I posted previously). Having said that, I certainly don't object to the occasional gizmo that's not specifically fitness-related, as long as it's not used as a distraction or marketed as a substitute for real exercise.
I disagree with your interpretation; I think they're selling the idea that exercise CAN be low-effort, and that low-effort exercise is better than not exercising. And I would suggest that in the graphic, the massage chair is not intended as a workout, but as a rest day - though that's not made clear from the image. I still think it's quite a reasonable interpretation, given that it's consistently on Saturday, and the third schedule says "Saturday Relax."
A rest day from WHAT? Ten crunches? Ten push-ups? Twenty lousy minutes on the treadmill? A measly five minutes on the Arc Trainer?
Here's the graphic again, to illustrate what I mean. Even for someone who's badly out of shape, that's scarcely anything to rest from. So I stand by my assertion that they are promoting low/no-effort workouts as the path to fitness, not merely suggesting that they're an option.
sorry but what the actual *kitten*? that has to be customer made...right...?2 -
Couldn't say. But I haven't seen it at the PF I go to.
Yes. But PF's tactics and recommended fitness routines don't encourage progress. It's one thing to start somewhere. It's another thing to remain there, or close to it, without making significant progress.Packerjohn wrote: »
Very true, low effort exercise is better than nothing, but like anything else better results require better effort. To me, the marketing at least, doesn't give the impression PF encourages effort.
Of course someone can go in there and work their *kitten* off. It just doesn't seem to be encouraged.
Well everyone has to start SOMEWHERE.
And yet that person is still better off than if they hadn't started. PF's tactics focus on small, sustainable changes. Their marketing is aimed at people who don't go to a gym AT ALL. I don't see how that's putting hurdles in their way?5 -
The combined graphic itself clearly is, butthe workout plans contained within it came straight fro PF's Facebook page. I've looked them up on occasion, just out of sheer disbelief.JaydedMiss wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »And that is a very good point. I would have to agree that not every single piece of equipment in the gym must necessarily be geared toward fitness. (This is one reason why I value discussions like this. They can force people, myself included, to rethink or refine their opinions.)
I don't like the way that PF tries to sell exercise as something that's meant to be low-effort. I certainly don't like the way they recommend chillaxing in a massage chair as a workout (see the graphic that I posted previously). Having said that, I certainly don't object to the occasional gizmo that's not specifically fitness-related, as long as it's not used as a distraction or marketed as a substitute for real exercise.
I disagree with your interpretation; I think they're selling the idea that exercise CAN be low-effort, and that low-effort exercise is better than not exercising. And I would suggest that in the graphic, the massage chair is not intended as a workout, but as a rest day - though that's not made clear from the image. I still think it's quite a reasonable interpretation, given that it's consistently on Saturday, and the third schedule says "Saturday Relax."
A rest day from WHAT? Ten crunches? Ten push-ups? Twenty lousy minutes on the treadmill? A measly five minutes on the Arc Trainer?
Here's the graphic again, to illustrate what I mean. Even for someone who's badly out of shape, that's scarcely anything to rest from. So I stand by my assertion that they are promoting low/no-effort workouts as the path to fitness, not merely suggesting that they're an option.
sorry but what the actual *kitten*? that has to be customer made...right...?
Some people rightly ridiculed these plans in the comments sections, but a good number of other respondents seemed pretty excited about them. It goes to show how people often want to believe that fitness shouldn't require any significant effort.3 -
Misinformation is a hurdle. So it feeding people's insecurities. So is tempting them with fattening foods. This really isn't a difficult concept to grasp.clicketykeys wrote: »Couldn't say. But I haven't seen it at the PF I go to.
Yes. But PF's tactics and recommended fitness routines don't encourage progress. It's one thing to start somewhere. It's another thing to remain there, or close to it, without making significant progress.Packerjohn wrote: »
Very true, low effort exercise is better than nothing, but like anything else better results require better effort. To me, the marketing at least, doesn't give the impression PF encourages effort.
Of course someone can go in there and work their *kitten* off. It just doesn't seem to be encouraged.
Well everyone has to start SOMEWHERE.
And yet that person is still better off than if they hadn't started. PF's tactics focus on small, sustainable changes. Their marketing is aimed at people who don't go to a gym AT ALL. I don't see how that's putting hurdles in their way?
BTW, the numbers show that the vast majority of Planet Fitness members almost never show up. (This is consistent with what I've heard PF employees state.) I'd wager that the ones who do would probably have done so regardless of which gym they chose. So if the purpose of Planet Fitness is simply to get people into the door, it's doing a ridiculously poor job of it.5 -
BTW, the numbers show that the vast majority of Planet Fitness members almost never show up. (This is consistent with what I've heard PF employees state.) I'd wager that the ones who do would probably have done so regardless of which gym they chose. So if the purpose of Planet Fitness is simply to get people into the door, it's doing a ridiculously poor job of it.
That's true of gyms/health clubs/fitness centers in general and not even remotely unique to PF.
I definitely have issues with the manner in which some of their 'anti-intimidation' policies have been enforced, as reported in the media. But on the other hand, I've also come to understand that pretty much 100% of the "news" is disinformation designed to mislead, provoke, and divide the public... so I have to consider that the outrageous stories I have read are probably not even remotely accurate.
I have very recently joined PF, primarily because they are inexpensive and have equipment that I have neither the money nor space for. I've got close to 75 pounds of fat to burn and plan to work out aggressively. As long as I'm left alone to do my thing, I'll keep going. If someone dares to tell me I can't work out the way I need to I will cancel my membership immediately.
I will say that in spite of your insistence that you weren't starting an anti-Planet Fitness rant, the tone of your posts do seem to be in the vein of an anti-PF rant.5 -
True to some extent, but PF carries this to an extreme. Their in-house rules and marketing strategy are specifically designed this way. The NPR podcast in question explains how and why.MarkusDarwath wrote: »BTW, the numbers show that the vast majority of Planet Fitness members almost never show up. (This is consistent with what I've heard PF employees state.) I'd wager that the ones who do would probably have done so regardless of which gym they chose. So if the purpose of Planet Fitness is simply to get people into the door, it's doing a ridiculously poor job of it.
That's true of gyms/health clubs/fitness centers in general and not even remotely unique to PF.
Experiences will vary. Other people I've met who've belonged to PF say that these stories are right on the money.definitely have issues with the manner in which some of their 'anti-intimidation' policies have been enforced, as reported in the media. But on the other hand, I've also come to understand that pretty much 100% of the "news" is disinformation designed to mislead, provoke, and divide the public... so I have to consider that the outrageous stories I have read are probably not even remotely accurate.
I didn't START an anti-PF rant. Even though I have serious problems with their tactics, I do make a serious attempt to understand both sides. As the discussion went on (and do remember that this is a zombie thread), it became clear that there really wasn't any justification for the massage chairs except as (a) a source of revenue, and (b) promoting the idea that working out should be a relaxing experience.I will say that in spite of your insistence that you weren't starting an anti-Planet Fitness rant, the tone of your posts do seem to be in the vein of an anti-PF rant.
Basically, it's part of the strategy described in the NPR podcast -- designing the place such that it would attract people who are unlikely to use the gym equipment, while also deterring the ones who are more likely to use it regularly.
If you've been going regularly and making progress, then good for you. As I said earlier, there are most definitely ways to do so. People like you are in the extreme minority though, much moreso than at other gyms.
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True to some extent, but PF carries this to an extreme. Their in-house rules and marketing strategy are specifically designed this way. The NPR podcast in question explains how and why.
NPR carries zero credibility with me. Unless the statements are being made by a PF spokesperson I will assume that they are being exaggerated to sound as outlandish as possible.If you've been going regularly and making progress, then good for you. As I said earlier, there are most definitely ways to do so. People like you are in the extreme minority though, much moreso than at other gyms.
Like I said, I just joined. So far I've done the 30 minute orientation and the 15 minute sitdown with the trainer (so why is there only one at the location?) to start building my own workout. My first actual workout will be tomorrow. We'll see how things go.
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Misinformation is a hurdle. So it feeding people's insecurities. So is tempting them with fattening foods. This really isn't a difficult concept to grasp.clicketykeys wrote: »Couldn't say. But I haven't seen it at the PF I go to.
Yes. But PF's tactics and recommended fitness routines don't encourage progress. It's one thing to start somewhere. It's another thing to remain there, or close to it, without making significant progress.Packerjohn wrote: »
Very true, low effort exercise is better than nothing, but like anything else better results require better effort. To me, the marketing at least, doesn't give the impression PF encourages effort.
Of course someone can go in there and work their *kitten* off. It just doesn't seem to be encouraged.
Well everyone has to start SOMEWHERE.
And yet that person is still better off than if they hadn't started. PF's tactics focus on small, sustainable changes. Their marketing is aimed at people who don't go to a gym AT ALL. I don't see how that's putting hurdles in their way?
BTW, the numbers show that the vast majority of Planet Fitness members almost never show up. (This is consistent with what I've heard PF employees state.) I'd wager that the ones who do would probably have done so regardless of which gym they chose. So if the purpose of Planet Fitness is simply to get people into the door, it's doing a ridiculously poor job of it.
1. What misinformation?
2. I would argue that PF doesn't feed people's insecurities; it assuages them: here is a gym where it's not only okay, it's actually expected that you're not already in great shape.
3. This one doesn't hold water - if PF members never show up, then they ain't gonna be tempted ;D Seriously, though, I would love to see some sort of proof that PFers grab a bunch of pizza and/or bagels and/or candy. I rarely see anyone grab more than a piece or two of the candy. I take a half-dozen Tootsie Rolls on my way out the door each time, and I can't help feeling nervous, like someone's going to call me out on it. There are about 11 calories in a Midgee, so even if I ate all of them, it'd be well under 100 cals.
4. The NPR article is... interesting, but there's no comparison between PF and other low-cost gyms. The other one they mention, Precision Athlete, is FIVE HUNDRED BUCKS A MONTH? jfc, for that kind of money... no. No, there is nothing a gym could offer to get me to spend that kind of money. Well. I'd go for it if they threw in a WDW Platinum Annual Pass and monthly limo service to the resort. Maybe. I'd at least be tempted!
5. I've had a membership to another big-box gym. I cancelled it because I didn't go, despite its convenient location; it's along my commute to work. PF isn't along my route, but it's not far - about a 15-minute drive, as opposed to the 20-25 it'd take to get to the other. SINCE joining PF, I've also started taking classes at a local indie gym. I don't have a membership there because it's more expensive and does not offer the amenities that PF does.
My personal experience at PF is wildly different from what gets talked about on the MFP discussion boards. I was not incredibly out of shape before joining PF; I had the Steps app and aimed for 10k/day, and I did body-weight exercises at home. I joined PF during the summer because I could get my steps in without being out in the hundred-degree-plus heat. It's entirely possible that without joining PF, I would have re-evaluated my goals and decided to pursue strength and flexibility training anyway. But I didn't until after I'd been going there for some time. Sooo... I dunno. Take that for whatever it's worth.5 -
Misinformation is a hurdle. So it feeding people's insecurities. So is tempting them with fattening foods. This really isn't a difficult concept to grasp.clicketykeys wrote: »Couldn't say. But I haven't seen it at the PF I go to.
Yes. But PF's tactics and recommended fitness routines don't encourage progress. It's one thing to start somewhere. It's another thing to remain there, or close to it, without making significant progress.Packerjohn wrote: »
Very true, low effort exercise is better than nothing, but like anything else better results require better effort. To me, the marketing at least, doesn't give the impression PF encourages effort.
Of course someone can go in there and work their *kitten* off. It just doesn't seem to be encouraged.
Well everyone has to start SOMEWHERE.
And yet that person is still better off than if they hadn't started. PF's tactics focus on small, sustainable changes. Their marketing is aimed at people who don't go to a gym AT ALL. I don't see how that's putting hurdles in their way?
BTW, the numbers show that the vast majority of Planet Fitness members almost never show up. (This is consistent with what I've heard PF employees state.) I'd wager that the ones who do would probably have done so regardless of which gym they chose. So if the purpose of Planet Fitness is simply to get people into the door, it's doing a ridiculously poor job of it.
The purpose of PF is to make money, they do that by getting people to sign up, they don't care if they walk through the door or not.
If anything PF has nailed it's operating model perfectly, it caters for people who may never actually bother using it's services but who have enough spare cash each month that they don't really care they aren't using it.0 -
Whereas PF would be completely honest when it comes to describing their business policies, right? They would candidly admit to using predatory tactics? The beauty of your approach is that it allows one to ignore any criticism of their tactics, since such criticisms would never come from a PF spokeperson.MarkusDarwath wrote: »[
True to some extent, but PF carries this to an extreme. Their in-house rules and marketing strategy are specifically designed this way. The NPR podcast in question explains how and why.
NPR carries zero credibility with me. Unless the statements are being made by a PF spokesperson I will assume that they are being exaggerated to sound as outlandish as possible.
If you do want to listen to a PF spokeperson though, there's always this: http://www.cc.com/video-clips/yp51yc/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-the-plight-of-muscled-americans. Their representative never directly criticizes her own company, of course, nor do they specifically talk about how almost none of their members actually show up. However, her own words do illustrate the dark side of PF, especially the part where they describe bodybuilders as "animals" and admit to violating their own "judgment-free" policy.
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"Predatory tactics"? Are you SURE this isn't an anti-PF rant?3
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If you don't like PF, don't join. If you don't want to use a massage chair, don't sit in them. The local up-scale Italian restaurant down the road from me offers pizza-making and other cooking classes once a month. I go there to eat and enjoy the atmosphere and wouldn't want to go thru the hassle of making those items in my own kitchen. So I simply don't attend the classes. Never once thought about discussing it until now.2
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As I said earlier, the OP was not. If people are going to post foolish defenses of their methods though, you can fully expect people to shift gears and respond accordingly.clicketykeys wrote: »"Predatory tactics"? Are you SURE this isn't an anti-PF rant?
I have defended PF when people say that you can't get a good workout there. By the same token though, if people applaud their methods, I have no problem pointing out that their methods are actually quite unethical.4 -
And if you don't like this discussion, you don't have to read it. In the meantime, people are perfectly justified in pointing out how foolish some of their methods are.If you don't like PF, don't join.
Besides, you should voice your criticism to PF. They're the ones who keep telling people that other gyms are horrible places filled with lunks, mean instructors, and other despicable creatures. Why not just tell them, "If you don't like these places, then don't go there"?
Somehow I don't think you'd be saying "If you don't like PF, don't join," if they were to ridicule women or overweight people instead of athletes. Because they mostly just ridicule the athletically accomplished though, that's considered fair game.
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And if you don't like this discussion, you don't have to read it. In the meantime, people are perfectly justified in pointing out how foolish some of their methods are.If you don't like PF, don't join.
Besides, you should voice your criticism to PF. They're the ones who keep telling people that other gyms are horrible places filled with lunks, mean instructors, and other despicable creatures. Why not just tell them, "If you don't like these places, then don't go there"?
Somehow I don't think you'd be saying "If you don't like PF, don't join," if they were to ridicule women or overweight people instead of athletes. Because they mostly just ridicule the athletically accomplished though, that's considered fair game.
I don't care who they ridicule, I don't belong to PF or any other gym for that matter. And while I certainly didn't have to comment on your post, I'm simply offering a suggestion of just "letting it go" just as I have regarding the pizza classes at my favorite Italian restaurant.
In all honesty, I don't give a crap about others' foolishness. If PF wants to ridicule me because I'm an extremely athletic woman, then they can. If another gym wants to ridicule me because I decide to run and ride instead of lift, then they can. I get told to put some meat on my bones all the time, and believe me, I sleep just fine at night without any second thought or worry about their comments. I'm not here to please any other person or establishment. However, no other person or establishment is put on this earth for my sole pleasure.
Personally, I believe fitness is attained by hard work, discipline, dedication, and sweat. Which is how I train- I've been side-lined with a broken hand so my walks on the treadmill and rides on a stationary bike are frustrating to me instead of being able to go outside and run and bike. So the PF model of "come walk on our treadmill" is not what I personally believe in. But that doesn't mean everyone else has to agree with me. And if PF decides that putting massage chairs in their lobby(?) attracts more customers, than so be it. It's a for-profit corporation.4 -
Whereas PF would be completely honest when it comes to describing their business policies, right?
If they were saying something negative about themselves, yes I would be inclined to think they were being truthful.
I'm generally pretty good at reading between the lines and sorting the facts from the hype and BS and opinions that someone wants to feed me. That's why I mostly avoid consuming "news" as it has become pretty much all hype and BS.
I don't regard PF as some paragon of virtue, or as any sort of fitness authority. I'm willing to ignore the politics of it and treat it simply as a place with some equipment, mainly because it's nearby and only $10 per month. I'm not thrilled that they don't have free weights, but I can cope. Though I probably wouldn't have joined at all had they not recently gotten some rowing machines.
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As I said earlier, the OP was not. If people are going to post foolish defenses of their methods though, you can fully expect people to shift gears and respond accordingly.clicketykeys wrote: »"Predatory tactics"? Are you SURE this isn't an anti-PF rant?
I have defended PF when people say that you can't get a good workout there. By the same token though, if people applaud their methods, I have no problem pointing out that their methods are actually quite unethical.
Sooo.. the OP wasn't an anti-PF rant, just the setup for it? Kind of comes across as ... disingenuous, at best. And this thread is now up to 8 pages, so maybe I missed where you defended PF.
Also, I'm still not clear what misinformation you meant.MarkusDarwath wrote: »I'm willing to ignore the politics of it and treat it simply as a place with some equipment, mainly because it's nearby and only $10 per month. I'm not thrilled that they don't have free weights, but I can cope. Though I probably wouldn't have joined at all had they not recently gotten some rowing machines.
Woah! No free weights at all? The one I go to has dumbbells, kettlebells, and bars with plates. Maybe I'm just extra-fortunate.Can we get back to talking about the massage chairs? Yes it costs $20 a month to use them, but you guys can afford it. Spartan, I know you won't commit but I have the black card membership and can bring a guest with me anytime for free.
Yeah, but I don't think the guests are allowed to use the black card area. Definitely a downer for me, because while I love getting a nice lil backrub after my workout, if I bring a guest, I feel like kind of a jerk if I say "okay, you can hang out here in the lobby while I get my massage. See you in ten." ;D So I generally only get the massage if I go solo.4 -
Are you SURE this isn't an anti-PF rant?Sooo.. the OP wasn't an anti-PF rant, just the setup for it?
Yup. Knew reading the first post and page it would be a rant.
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clicketykeys wrote: »Woah! No free weights at all? The one I go to has dumbbells, kettlebells, and bars with plates. Maybe I'm just extra-fortunate.
They do have dumbells and I think kettlebells... and there are bars with plates but those are all in Smith machines. I haven't tried the Smiths yet, so I might end up liking them ok, but I can see a potential issue in the forced linearity of the lifts. Some people insist they are bad and dangerous.. I have no opinion yet other than they aren't quite the same as free weights.
When I said they lack free weights what I meant is that they don't have loose bars.
Did my first actual workout there today. So far I can say I don't care for the chest press machine. The movement of the machine brings your hands closer together as you extend, where with a regular bench press they stay the same distance apart. I expected to be able to do a set of 15 with roughly 60% of my 1 rep max bench press. Not even close. Had to drop to 45% to get the first set in, and progressively dropped the weight even more on the next set and more again for the last 2 sets.
Also discovered that the rowing machine is much harder than I expected. I don't think I have an issue with the stroke so much as the return. My big round belly gets in the way of trying to lean forward into the starting position, and my hip flexors are weak which makes it difficult to pull myself back forward on the rail. I'm going to have to work on that one a little at a time and do most of my cardio on the treadmill for a while.
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MarkusDarwath wrote: »
Also discovered that the rowing machine is much harder than I expected. I don't think I have an issue with the stroke so much as the return. My big round belly gets in the way of trying to lean forward into the starting position, and my hip flexors are weak which makes it difficult to pull myself back forward on the rail. I'm going to have to work on that one a little at a time and do most of my cardio on the treadmill for a while.
Brotip on the rower: You might be trying to lean too far forward. Maybe you're fine, but in my experience many people lean forward and back too much on the rower. If your torso is the hand of a clock, you really only need to go between maybe 11o'clock and 1 o'clock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0r_ZPXJLtg
Like I said maybe you are doing it right, and if so keep doing it. I'm only posting this because I know that when I first used the rower I was definitely leaning too much (in both directions).
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cbohling1987 wrote: »Brotip on the rower: You might be trying to lean too far forward. Maybe you're fine, but in my experience many people lean forward and back too much on the rower. If your torso is the hand of a clock, you really only need to go between maybe 11o'clock and 1 o'clock.
I don't think I even achieve 12 o'clock. There's just too much middle in the way. I had to grab the handles before I put my feet up on the pedals, and it was a *kitten* getting my shoes into the straps. Yeah, I got a long way to go.
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MarkusDarwath wrote: »cbohling1987 wrote: »Brotip on the rower: You might be trying to lean too far forward. Maybe you're fine, but in my experience many people lean forward and back too much on the rower. If your torso is the hand of a clock, you really only need to go between maybe 11o'clock and 1 o'clock.
I don't think I even achieve 12 o'clock. There's just too much middle in the way. I had to grab the handles before I put my feet up on the pedals, and it was a *kitten* getting my shoes into the straps. Yeah, I got a long way to go.
That's OK - the big pull back with your legs and back is the part of the movement that really works you. As long as your arms are out straight you're probably OK.
BTW I also struggle to grab the handles if my feet are on the pedals and I'm 5'11"/165lb. I think it's more hip mobility than anything.0 -
cbohling1987 wrote: »BTW I also struggle to grab the handles if my feet are on the pedals and I'm 5'11"/165lb. I think it's more hip mobility than anything.
There's definitely a lot of that going on. Overall, I really need to work on my hip flexors. As I said, it was the return to starting position that really killed me more than the stroke.0 -
not worth it0
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